OCTOBER 9 1984
DH: On the issue of early elections would you give a guarantee now that if you win in December as is expected, your next government would go its full term?
PM: Yes particularly in the light-Derryn of what I have been saying is that, we are not just having this early election that you keep referring to, what I am doing is saving the people of Australia an extra election. Now I want to come fully to answer your question. But whats got to be understood is that under the constitution, we have to have by April next, an election for the Senate. We must do that under the Constitution. Therefore what I am doing is to save the people an extra election, that you would have to have after that if the House of Representatives went on instead of two elections which wiil cost, which would have cost $ 49million I'm bringing the 2 together at a cost of 30 million.
By having the House of Representatives and the h Senate election together that will be the 23rd time that this has been done in our
history, but in doing that I am also putting to the people a referendum and this distinguishes me from what has happened in the past, I'm
saying to people here's a referendum, I'm asking you to vote for
simultaneous elections so that no' Prime Minister in the future will
be able to throw the electoral cycle out of kiltre by causing
unnecessary early elections. If the people support that referendum it will mean that a Prime Ministek will know that he will have to
take the Senate out with him. Thre will be no advantage in
trying to break the cycle. He woh't be able to do it under the
constitution. So I think that the Australian People are now
for the first time being given tho opportunity of unequivocably
getting this thing sorted out for all time int he future
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DH Is it totally altruistic, or is it also because you feel that this is a good time to maximise your chances?
PM We'd be in as good or better shape next year, but it is the case that the normal pattern of having the half senate election has been at the end of the preceding year. It has normally been held at this sort of period and iA this case I have gone as early as we can under the new laws and part of my reason for going early
is that the business community, many of them, have made representations
to me, they say, we know there needs to be an early election we
are saying to you go as early as possible because they say to me,
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and it is interesting Derryn just how widely this view is put by
business, that the thread of an election hanging in the air by having
S it very late in the year or early [ in the new year, they say disrupts
S the Christmas retail trade so get it out of the way December the first
is as soon as we can have it, it Its there, it is done, and particularly
S if the Australian people will votj for the referendum, simultaneous
S elections, then we can look forward to future stability,. particularly
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S stability. DH Malcolm Fraser used to talk about calling an election to
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end the speculation which he had started and on this election your
speculation, personally seemed to start about last Christmas.
PM It was not speculation it was... I don't know what I can do
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to satisfy you I didn't speculate, I said this is what we are going
to do. I'll tell the people not at the last minate, I've said I'll
v tell you as soon as possible so that the business community
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electorate can know. Now I don't. know how you can ever be
satisfied I mean you are saying t4at I fuel speculation, I said
early this is what is going to happen, I won't hang around until
the last minute Mr Fraser did, and just spring it. Close the role
so that thousands and thousands of people couldn't get on the role
DH Thats true
PM We've had a campaign to jrge people to get on the role.
This is the thing which distinguishes us from all our predecessors.
We want everyone to have the opportunity to know there is going to
be an election not only get it out of the way but importantly for
the future to say now you are not going to have unnecessary elections
foisted on you in the future.
DH Are you concerned or embarrassed, perhaps by the fact that
while you have got an election carpaign now virtually underway
you have still got a Senate committee hearing the Justice Murphy
affair material, youv'e got the Ccstigan report to be tabled, these
things can/ will end up perhaps getting involved as election issues.
PM: No, not only not embarrassed, but quite positive about them. I've made it clear and I think yoq accept, I've got no reason to
believe that you don't that I have said in respect of what ever
investigations going on into any issue or any people, I've said
and I mean it let the cards fall ihere they may. I'm not in the
business of protecting anyone or any interests and that is my
position as far as the Costigan Commission report is concerned
I will ensure that that report is published as fully as it can be
on the basis of the advice from Mr Costigan himself, from the
National Crimes Authority, from te director of public prosecutions
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from the head of the Australian Federal Police and from the
Attorney General's department. T) ey will all advise on what paths
should not be published so that p osecution will not be prejudiced
or the rights of individuals prejudiced and on the basis only of
their recommendations as to what Shouldn't be published I'll
see that the whole of the report is published. I've got nothing
to fear from it, the Government has nothing to fear from it, on
the contrary.
DH Would this be published bdfore the election?
PM Of course it will be.
DH The president of the ALP Ar Wran, his name is coming up in
evidence that Senate Committee enquiry, does that cause you some
embarrassment with an election coning up?
PM On the contrary, I have scid, I repeat on your programme,
that I have no evidence at all anq have not had at any stage, any
evidence which establishes any impropriety on the part of Mr Wran
and I don't know about you but I m never going to be part of the
process of smear, and innuendo and guilt by allegation that is
an extraordinary danger in our society. I'd never been one to
run away from friends or colleeues on the basis that they are being
smeared, or allegations are being made against them. Now there is
nothing at all of any evidence of any impropriety on Mr Wran's part
and any-one should be very careful of making any allegations against
him. DH agree with that, but he has, Mr Wran has made some, what
I would consider to be extraordinary and dangerous comments for
a Premier over the possible future of Mr Briese the chief stipendiary
magistrate in NSW who is currently under oath at a Senate. committee
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hearing. i
PM Derryn, there can be obviously arguments as to whether that
was a wise thing for Mr Wran to say. But I have been concerned.
to go to the wider point, people hafve grabbed hold of that and then
used it as a peg to make general allegations against Mr Wran. Thats
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what I'm not going to be in. I accept that there can be legitimate
arguments as to whether that was A wise thing to say.
DH I saw you on the Willese9 prqgram last night. Mike Willesee
raised the questions about your family and I think you said
something along the lines about them being perhaps being, part of an
election campaign argument of som4 sort and you said only disreputable
people would raise those questions and would get involved in those
questions. Is that right
Oh I don't remember my exa~ t words Mike did go to it. I'e
said that I believe that the events of recent weeks have once again
confirmed the continuing faith which I have had in the wisdom and
good judgement of the Australian 4lectorate. They don't like the
process of smear and allegation, personalisation of issues, they've
made that quite clear. Couldn't Iave made it clearer. I said in S.
respect of that issue that the children of non public figures Who
have suffered these particular softs of tragedies the attitude
of the community is that the major issue is to see how these unfortunate
people should be able to be rehabIlitated, get away from their
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problem. That's what the attitud' of the community is. I think
rightly so.
DH With respect Prime Minister, I think that oneof the attitudes
of the community as well and followed by calls on programs such
as mine and mail we have received'is that the community, a large
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number of the community also feel' that it was a legitimate
question to ask you as Prime tMinipter where your daughter got
the money for her drug addiction hnd for how long she had that
drug addiction?
PM Well you can say that that is legitimate., I have made
the point publicly when that quesr-ion has been raised or alluded to
that as far as we are concerned it the police.., if the law
enforcement agencies have any questions that they want to direct
to anyone in the family then that what shoul~ d happen and thats
where it stands.
DH Have the police not asked'; you any questions?
PM No and let me say this, I~ am not going to subject my family
or myself to interrogation by you'or by anyone other than the police.
Its a matter for the police, its', their decision if they want to
ask these questions and thats for'them.
OH Were you tempted, I'm sure, you were, as a father to go
after the pushers, the scum of th earth who supplied the drugs to
your daughter?
PM Look, I think I have made: it clear, and I don't want to have
either my intelligence or the int~ lligence of your listeners insulted
by suggesting that I haven't got he deepest revulsi6n against those
engaged in drug trafficking. 1 s4id in a press conference that I
find it hard to control my ration4lity when I think about people
who profit from this trade, now. ti~ ats quite clear. I'm not goi~ ng
to go into some detailed exaninat on of what the feeling is that
I have about these people,
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DH I admit I don't like having ito ask these questions.
P. M You say you don't like it D! rryn, I'm not going to get
into a question of what you like or ' don't like doing. You've
made your judgements about how you conduct yourself. Thats
for you. All I'm saying to you is # hat I'm not going to assist
your processes of examination of my. ifeelings about these things.
What my attitude is, is clear, it is the same as any parents would
be. One of total repugnance. I relard it quite frankly as
an insult to my intellcgence and fkankly to the' intelligence of
your listeners that there should be any -implication that I have
other than total repugnance of people engaged in the drug scene.
DH I don't make that inferrencb at all.
PM I don't care whether you want to go on and say you do
or do not want to make an inference. I am simply saying to you its I
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a matter for Derryn Hinch's judgement what he does about disclosures,
what he does about prying into people's feelings, but all I'm saying
to you is that I'm not going to assist you for whatever reasons you
have in your mind about trying to probe my feelings about this.
My feelings are manifest and well known, I'd leave it at that.
DR Were you aware Mr Prime Minrister of Mr Costigan's family
problems? PM Not directly, no I wasn't. But I became aware after your
episode. That knowledge was in thq hands of a number of people in
the media who took a different view to you.
Doesn't it just show
PM Let me just say to you... ! I'm not going to be involved in
an analysis of your action, why yov did what you did, that's a matter
for you, a matter for judgement by others as to whether it was
appropriate. I simply say to you And I think you ought to know
that when I say something I mean i I am not going to get further
involved in an analysis of what you have done about this or not.
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That's for others to make their judgement. I'm not pursuing this
S matter any further down the track.
S DH Well I think, it sounds like you have made your judgement.
PM I may or may not have made my judgement. But I don't want
to intrude that judgement into the issue, because I happen to think
that 99% of the Australian people now that we are into an election
want to talk about other issues as to whether Derryn Hinch did
or not do the right thing in this isue. I
DH That wasn't the point I was trying to lead you to. The point I was trying to ask you...
PM Derryn, what you may or may: not be trying to lead me to,ΓΈ
all I can go on is the area on which you have now spent a great deal.
of time on. I am not going to talk' any more about personal problems
that exist in my family or in Mr Costigan's family or Derryn Hinch's
actions in these matters. Now I am not going to talk anymore about
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DH Right Mr Prime Minister. What do you see, a totally separate issue, as the main issue of the camipaign that will get you re-elected?
PM Well it is quite clear, and that is that the Australian people
in this election are faced with alternatives. They are faced with
going back to what they had at the beginning of ' 83 the policies which
produced the disaster that was Ausiralia at the end of 7 years of i
government which Mr Peacock was a; leading minister of for nearly
the whole time, of which Mr Howard and Mr Sinclair were leading ministers.
Their policies produced the most divided and divisive and economically
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stagnant Australia since the depression, I promised Australia a
better course, I said, I offer National reconc: iliation and on that
basis, economic recovery. We have' produced that in auspectacularly
S' successful way thats the issue.
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D H Does it worry you that some people who voted for you last
S time round will fall by the way-side this time, over such things
BSa s the uranium issue or things like; that.
PM Well I can go on if you are talking about" some people will
fall by the wayside" if you want to say " some people will fall by
the wayside" all I can say is that comparing the election in March' 83
with today, it is clear that we havo a greater level of support now
than we had then. So we may have lpPst some, we seem to have gained
more.
DH Will you concentrate much of your campaign in Victoria? Where there is apparently the most narginal seats?
PM Oh Victoria is the second largest state with the second
largest number of seats and any political leader who didn't pay
a great deal of attention to Victoria would be quite stupid. Whatever
I may be I'm not stupid.
DH True, that is quite true. fr Prime Minister, I know you haven't got any more time, I thank you for your time, and I presume we will talk again in the campaign. i
PM Certainly Derryn
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