E. O. E. PROOF ONLY
PRESS CONFERENCE PRIME MINISTER AND MR GRAY, TASMANIAN PREMIER
26-JUNE 1984
MR SAMiA, WI' 6;
PRlDIE MINISTER, COULD YOU TELL US ARE YOU SATISFIED YOU'VE SATISFIED
TASiANIANS IN THEIR NEEDS OVER THIS DAM ISSUE?
11R HAZE:
WELL I OF COURSE & M SATISFIED, BUT WHAT'S mRE MPORTANT IN A SEN~ SE THAN ME
BEING SATISFIED IS THAT THE PREIER OF TASMNIA, MRCRAY, HAS SAID AND HS
SIGNED THAT THE CMAONWEALTH HAS NOW MET ITS C( QIFA-fNS. I'D JUST IKE R,
MAU THE POINT THAT, AND I AM PLEASED THAT THERE IS A CLEAR AND UNEQUIVOCAL
UNDERSTANDING.* I WOULD JUST LIFE TO REMIND YOU THkT ON THE NIGHT OF THE
OF IMARCH 1983, IN ACCEPTING THE DECISTON OF TiE AUSTRALIAN ELECTRUTE,
THEN I WV= T OUT OF MY 14AY TO SAY THAT WHI'E WET-' D RECEIVED A BIT OF A SLAP
FRC~ 1 THE TASMANIAN VOTERS, THAT WE WOULD HONOUR OUrR CbIfhNT TO TASMANIA
AD OUT OF THE LOMV DISCUSSIONS THAT THE PMRIIER AND I HAVE HAD OVER A
PERIOD OF Th1ELVE M0MHS FROM THE 1ST OF JULY, WE'VE REACHN) THAT POSITION.
QUESTION: MR HAWKE, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR OFFER TO THE STATE IS BTER THAN THAT
WHICH MR FRASER....?
MR HAME:
IT'S NOT FOR ME TO D( MEM INTO THAT AWAIYSLS. 1, AT WE'VE DONE IS SAY MTAT
WE HAD AN4 OBLIGATION TO MET, THE DIEWMONT OBLIGATION, THE PEOPLE WHO WOUD
HAVE BEEN ELPLOYED ON THE CORDON-BEItY4-FRANKLIN, TO MEET OUR OBLIGATIONS N
RE. GARD TO ENSURING THAT TASMANTANS WOULD NT BE DISADVANAGED IN THE COST OF
ELWI1ICITY THAT WILL NC% 4 BE GENEATED IN VAYS IT WOULD BE MET BY THE FMVK-JIN'
THOSE AUE THE CXIhiMMS AND WE'VE MET T0H. THE PRESEN'T COST TN TERMS OF
VHAT WTE'VE HANDED OVER T1O MR GRAY AM) WTHAT $ 277 MILLION, BUT
APPRECIATES IT IN RESPECT OF THE $ 200 MILLION, WHICH IS TO SUBSIDISE ' tHAT
112 I'GAWAITS FRCX4 THE ArnHNY AND KING SCIIEES AND THAT WILL BE lIbD1D,
SO WHILE ITS $ 200 MILLICON IMNW THAT WILL BE LNDEM) ANNULMLY BY THE NON
DWELLINGU CONSTRUCTION fULICIT.... OF THE NMTIONAL AC( X) UNTS. SO IN TfIlE IT
WILL BE ' S4EVHAT MDRE THAN . TUAT.
QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT YOU MR GRAY? ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT THIS DEAL IS GOING TO ELP
TASMNIA IN E FU TURE OR DO YoU Thifit I'S A BAD T1{ G?
GRAY:
WE'RE SATISFIED THAT THE PRIE MINISTER IS N( M, BY VIRTUE OF THE AGREDM
THAT WE'VE EM'IRE IOM, AND WI-lEN THAT AGRER1EQiT IS PUT INTO EFFECT
HONOURlD THE UNDIRTAKING HE GAVE TO TAFXNIA. THE $ 270 ODD MILLION THAT
HE REFERS T OF COURSE ONLY REFERS TO THlE FIRST 112 lEGAWATTS. THE
MILLJON HAS BEN SPENT ON THE GORDON-BE* IM-FAtNK. LNN AND THE JOBS THAT THE
0WlbDrEalLTH HAVE HELPED PROVIDE. THERE IS OF ( XXRSE THE QUESTION OF THE $ 68
NEZAWATTS OF POWER HICH TM PRIE MIISTER HAS DRTkEN THAT HE WILL
REDUCE THE COST OF TAT POWER TO TME SAM [ PICE AS IT VJ) lD HAVE BEEN PRODUCED
BY THE GCOrDO-BE a4-FRAhrKLIll PUER SCHE2-' AD THAT OF COURSE ADDS APPRECIABLY
TO THE OVERALL COMPENSATION THAT WLL BE PRVIDED W-EN THE P( YER IS RIBQUTRED,
AS YOU WOULD KNOW MAX, TE TASM\ iANIAN GOVER* 2Nf FhuX. IIS; I; S THAT IT WILL NEED
THAT POWER IN THE 1990s, WETHER IT'S IN 1991 OR 1995. ULTIMATELY IT WILL BE
NEEDED. OUR VERY FIRM ADVICE APPEARS THAT IT ILL 13E NEEDED IN ABOUT 1991,
WE WOULD THEN EXPECT THE C4OZZIONWEALHJ~ TO CO! l1ENCE PAYING THE SUBSIDY ON THAT
68 MEGA34A TS OF POW4ER.
QUESTION: AT WHAT POINT WILL YOU BEGIN TO PAY IIIAT SUBSIDY?
HAhE: AS THE PMFWIIER SAID, IT'S NOT CERTAlNI AT WAT nTW, WHAr WAE'VE DERTAKEN
AND WHAT THE PREMIER ACCEPTED THAT WE WILL MEET AN OBLIGATION IF AND WHEN
THAT FXIRA 68 MEGlAWATTS IS REQUlRED NOW4, THE 00f[ Th%' T IS TO MEET THE
DIFFERI2CE IN THE COST BEMtEEN WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THE GORJDN-BELWFRANKLIN
HAD GONE AHEAD AND WAT THE ADDITIONAL COST WOULD BE FROM THE
ALTERNATIVE SOURCE OF GENEATIQN.
N% 7V IT'S MY BELIEF, I THlIK THAT THE PREhIER SHARES THAT BELIEF, THAT WE WIL
BE ABLE IN CONSULTATIONS EFLTEEN US TO WORK OUT THE QUESTIONS IN REGARD TO
THAT 68 MEGAWATS AS TO THE TINE AND THE ME TOD. WE BELIEVE THAT WE'VE SHC%
THAI WE CAN WORK THESE THINGS OUT, IT kIfGV HAVE BEEN A BIT ROUGH AT TRIES,
BUT WE COT THERE, AND THERE 13 A FRCVISION IN1 TE AGREENT THAT IF M
CRI DEALTH A) TASMANIA CAN'T WORK OUT THE QUESTION, THEN THERE IS
PROVISION Fr THE ESTABLISMENT OF A = O OTHEALTh STATE INDEPENDENT CCIS SlCN
TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.
QUESTION:
DO YOU ACCEPT THAT IT'S A FAR TOO GMWEOUS OPEN ENDED CMMTInMU ON THE 68
MEA TTS?
HAME: NO I DO NOT ACCEPT THAT IT'S TOD GRNEUMS AND OPEN ED. WE'VE BEEN VERY
CAREFUL ABOUT Ir. AS I SAY TE ARE&= REFERS To THE 68 JEGAWAXTS IN TERS
OF IF AND WHEN THAT IS NEEDED, IN TERMS OF TA& IANIA'S D4aND FOR ADDITICQAL
ELERICITY. SO THAT'S WHAT.... IF AND WHA AND WE ACCEPT THE CCk\ irfITlEN0.
THEN WE ACCEPT THAT WE WILL CONSULT) NEGOTIATE BEIVEEN US, IN THE MKTfiAL
BELIEF THAT WE CAN WORK THAT OUT BEn1EEN US, PREFEERABLY, IF 14E CAN'T
THEN THAT'S THE REASON FOR AN INDEPENDENT CCIMSSION I THINK THAT'S
A RESPONSIBLE ECRCISE OF MY RESPONSIBILITIES ON BEALF OF THE
AND I THINK ON BEHALF OF THE PR ID-ER iN HIS BEHALF.
QUESTION: MR CRAYIT HAS BEEN... QU( OTED IN TIHE IAST FEW DAYS IN THE TAR4ANIAN PRESS THAT
SUBSIDISATION OF ADDITIONAL 68 MEXAWATTS COULD BE WORTH $ 500 MILLION OVER
YEARS. IS THAT FIGURE... THE ONE THAT THE CaikMWEALTH AGREED TO?
-3
M GRAY
it's fairly clear to us that we will need that extra. 168 MW about
1991 and from thereon and even if projection were proved to be
optimistic the latest we believe we would need it would be about
1992. I think the Commonwealth have made an. independant asse~ sment
about that and suggested that it's 1994, as I said betore I think
it matters much as to when it is the commitment is there from the
Prime Minister that when we need the power it will be subsidised.
Now on the basis on the alternatives which we know are presently
available to Tasmania and basically that is only a coal fired
thermal station the guarantee which the Prime Minister has provided
. is equivalent to about 12.5 million dollars per year, you can do
your own arithmatic as to what that comes to.
QUESTION: Mr. Gray do you believe that you have got the best deal for Tasmania.
You have quoted figures in the past that you wanted more money
for what it's already done, more money for resources in the South
West.. MR. GRAY:
I believe we've got a fair arrangement for Tasmania. Obviously when
the High Court ruled against us and I don't think any Tasmanian
really believed that the High Court was going to rule against us,,
but they did, we accepted that decision, that was the decison of the
highest court in Australia and we accepted that and we then had t~ o
set about negotiating with the Prime M4inister to obtain compensation.
Mr. Fraser as you know had offered a figure of $ 500 million in round
terms which probably came back in present day values to a bit over
$ 300 million we were starting at the 1st July last year virtually
from a very deep barganing position I think you would agree Prime
Minister and we therefore made some aibit claims
VM. HAWKE
No Premier has ever had a fairer bargining context to operate in
then you did Robin.
MR GRAY:
Blut we managed to sort it out and negotiate it over the last twelve
months. QUESTION: Premier with that respect did it mean better to accept Mr. Fraser's
offer? MR GRAY:
Oh no, on all the advice that we have from our advisors, the Prime
Minister's offer is worth twice Mr. Fraser's offer.
MR. HAWKE:
I've stayed out of this question of observations about the figure!
and the implecations over $ 277 million dollars which is there on
the table and it's understandable that Mr. Gray is going to have
his figures to throw around. Let me remind you that when we
started this exercise that the claim was three and half billion
dollars was necessary, held make a good Trade Unionist.
MR. GRAY:
That was a trick you taught me when you was President of the ACTU.
MR HAWKE.,
Yeah, all I can say is that we don't accept the calculations that
the Premier is using, he is entitled to for his own political
to try and put figures upon us. I point out; that in respect
of 112 MW that is being produced by the K~ ing and Anthony that
the subsidy involved there is still $ 3.00 million my course that
it probably be provided in a different fashion the 68 MW but
all I can say our peopl2-haven't been entirely slacking in their
calc-iations as WI~ at will be involved, it's no where near the
figure that's being circulated.
QUESTION: Mr. Gray all hope is going to build that dam in the future, do
you believe that the dam might be built one day?
-MR GRAY:
I think in fact that in time we will see a reassessment of these
conservation questions. What will happen in the futute I can't say.
There is now 70% of Tasmanian hydro electric resources, unused
resources locked up in the World Heritage area and that's why power
will not be able to be provided from cheap sources like the K( ing
and the Anthony scheme for the 68 t& J. But ultimately I believe that
common sense will. prevail and we will see the utilisation of those
resources, I might be an old man before it happens but
MR HlAWKE:
Tasmania will have a lot of money to pay back then
QUESTION: Mr. Hawke can you tell me what-calculations under 68MW, what sort
of period are you talking about the 68 MW being subsidised?
MR HAWKE:
Well precisely because it is impossible to put figures on that
but the agreements that ends in the way it does for the purposes
of the people of Tasmania what is important, that I on behalf of
the Commonwealth have honoured a commitment in regard to that
additional 68 MW if and when it is necessary. Our commitment is
there, clear and unequivocal now our definition the Premier and I
and our people weren't able to get agreement as to precisly when
that obligation will arrive'and because we can't do that you can't
put figures in. The obligation is there it can be met as we nave
indicated in correspondence you could have a concept of an annual
subsidy, you could have the concept of an up-front capital contribution
and it will be a matter for discussion between us both as to when
the meeting of the obligation will be necessary and as to how it
should be met. We have recognised that is the fact and we have
also recognised the possibility that we may not be able to agree,
although I believe that experiences shown that we will be able to.
If we can't it will be a matter for an independant commission. Quite
impossible as we recog-nise to put figures on it now.
MR GRAY:
r think the wording of the agreement is quite clear and I think as
the Prime minister says it leaves the way open for the matter to be
rediscussed. if you look at the agreement it says the Comnmonwealth.
undertakes to provide a subsidy to reduce the cost of a further
68MW electricity the balance of capacity that would have been provided
by the Gordon-below-Franklin scheme to the level of the cost of the
electricity that would have been produced by the Gordon-below-Franklin
scheme. If and when the need for the electricity has been demonstrated.
and I think that adequately affects Tasmania and it honours the undertaking
that the Prime minister gave in relation to the assuring that
Tasmania would not be disadvanted in terms of electricity costs as a
result of the Commonwealth action.
QUESTION: But you'd expect that subsidy for something like 60 years, the life
of the dam?
MR GRAY:
Well I think the wording is quite clear, that would have been provided
by the Gordon-below-Franklin sheme Bruce, so you know how long these
Hydro, schemes last.
QUESTION: Mr. Gray are you satisfied that you've got the best deal as far as
Tasmanian's perceive it to be, in otherwords do you think that you
will be able to sell this package in Tasmania.
MR. GRAY:
I have no doubt about that. I think Tasmanians recognise that we.
have had a difficult year as I said earlier -that we really started
from a position of weakness on July the let last year because
stricktly speaking the Commonwealth didn't have a legal liability
and we have negotiated hard it's been sometimes I suppose a
difficult Prime Mrinister but we have-continued to negotiate sometime
negotiations almost broke down but we got together again and we
managed to talk it out and advance the situation and I'm satisfied
we got the best deal that could have been got. Certainly better than
Mr. Fraser offered and having regard to all the facts and the position
from where we started I believe that Tasmanians will be well satZisfied
and as I say I'm satisfied with the P'rime Minister has honoured by
virtue of the implementation of this understanding the comm~ itments
which he gave.
QUESTION: of course you started this as you said from a weak bargining position
would you have been better off if you had started bargining in a
strong position.
MR GRAY:
OH, no not at all. I know the Prime minister sees himself as
generous at time to time but I think tie would have a bit of a
battle to have got to the figure we got to and we've got to
remember this, Tasmanian's wanted that-power scheme built, they
voted us into government, a very clear mandate to build that
scheme and I think their vote at the March 5th election was a
clear indication that they didn't agree with the Prime Minister's
policy. We had a mandate to build it and if we had not proceeded
to the point where we had to stop because of the High Court action
then we would have been letting Tasmanian down and Tasmanians wan~ ted
us to go on, and I'm sure they realise that all this is all unfortunate
that the Government of Tasmania ha., fought very hard to get a fair
deal for Tasmania following the High Court decision.
MR HAWKE:
LET ME JUST MAKE THIS POIT ABOUT THE FAIRNESS AND SO ON WHEN THE
NEGOTIATIONS WERE GOTNG IN AND WE CODN'T AT ONE STAGE GT ANYWHERE
THE MTONVWE4LTH WAS CONVC ED THAT THE FAIRNESS OF OUR APPROACH THAT
WE mADi THE OFER o TASvmAiX TO HAVE A., N nhm~ E):' J) rr FEDERAL/ STATE
CftISSION TO CONS. LDER AND DE= 1fE1NE ON THESE INrAERS. WE WERE LX) NFIDENT
OF THE FAIRNESS OF OUR POSITION. NOW, IN' 17HE EVEln', TASIANIA, AND I'M
CLAD THEY DID, TASMNIA IN TiE FACE OF TMAT OFFE-71 FROM US TO HAVE IT
INEPENI2DELY DETERnD PRMERED TO CO ON VTH TME NEGOTIAT IONS, AIM IN
THE EVEN TIE NEWOTIATIONS HAD PRODUCED WHST WE BELIEVE IS A FAIR POSITION
AND WHAT WE SAID MEt WOULD BE QUITE HAPPY TO GO TO AN IMMEPDENT COMi> SSION.
QUESTION: R GRAY, A QUESTION DIRECTED TO YOU AND THlY PRI MINISTER RESPECTIVEL.
I-MJ DO YOU SEE THE POLITICAL fIPLICATICNS OF THIS AQEEENT IN-TEmm OF
HE ELECTORAL. RESPONSE TO IT AND PARTICULARLY IN VIEW OF A ( XM'fM FED-ERAL
ELECTION?
CRAY: WELL WAE HAVE AIAAYS DONE, MAT E BELIEVE WAS IN THE BEST INERESTS OF
TASMaiNIA AND WHAT TASMAIAZS WANTED TO DO. AS I SAID, WE HAD A VERY CLEAR
MANDATE AND TASMNANS UNDERTAND THAT THE ONLY REAkSON THT WE WMRI' 1T ABE
TO flTLaUU THAT IAS THAT COVEVEINT l14 ANZTHER PlACE DECIDED THAT THEY
THOUGHT IT OUG; HT TO BE STOPPED AND WEE SUCCESSFUL IN THE HIGH OURT. NUW
I'M SURE THAT TASNLWIANS RECOGNISE THAT E DID THE BEST TO TPL-MNa7 THE
POLICIES THAT THEY WANTED Ml ETED AD I THINK TiA'S ALL THAT ANY
GOIUVMLT CkN BE ASKED TO DOD IS TO DO THEIR BEST AND WHM THEVE
DONE TMAT, AS FAR AS THE FEDERAL ELECTION' S CONCMERN, WLL, TIME LIBERa
PARTY tILL HOLD AJL FIVE HOUSE OF REPRSETiATIVES SEATS AND 14R HAE WILL
( XQiME BACK THE ELECTION AFTE AND HAVE ANMoHER GO, I S SURE.
HAX: WELL I CAN'T AVOID THE TJDThTATION OF RESPONDING TO THOSE LEAD LIES. IT'S
VERY PLEASANT TO cWeI DONN HERE IN TASMAI TODAY AlD SEE THE HEADINES
ON TIE HOBART MERCURY SH4TIGC THAT WE ARE 1%, LL N FRONT AS FAR AS FEDERAL
SEATS ARE CONCERNED AND QUITE SERIOUSLY I TINK THAT POLL REFLECTS THE FACT
THAT THE PEOPLE OF TASMANIA HAVE UDERSTOOD THE CM1XIThEW. THE SOLI4N
COIaaTm? E I GAVE ON THE NIGHT OF 5th of march, IN PPSPECT OF THE
PEOPLE OF TLA& XANIA HAS BEEN HOOURED AiD THEME CAN BE NO DOUBT THAT ZIfE
ADVERSE ENVIROITM THAT WE OPERATED qi IN TE LAST FEDERAL ELECTION IV;
BEEN DPROVED AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNOD.
QUFZrION:.
A iWT OF uNDECIDED'S IN THOSE POLLS, THOUGH.
HAWKE: yOU mICXJ Hw PousTERS ALCATE UNDECIDEDS Am) IT UsauALY iXS OUT wAu..
THEY USUALLY ALIICATE TIII IN PROPORTIUON To THE WAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE
ALREADY INDICATED. ON THAT BASIS WE HAVE REASON TO BE VERY VERY CONFIDfrT
AND AFTER TAQANIAN HISTORICALLY HaE BEEN VERY SENSIBLE IN REGARD TO
THEifl FEDERAL VOTING PATTERNS AND THERE HAVE BEW SLIGHT ABERRATIONS IN
WE ARE RAPIDLY REThiNG TO TE SITUATION t{ ERE WE WILL PAVE, IF NOT
ALL, AT LEAST A FAIR MAJORIIY Of THE FEDRAL SEATS. AND AFTER ALL, I
ALWAYS BELIEVED AS DISTICT FROM OGlHES IN THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY, I'VE
ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT TA& ANIANS ARE AUSTRALIANS, AND THE CLEAR PATTERN
OF THE AUSTRALIAN INTENTION IS TO INCREASE THE REERSENTATION OF' THIS
OVERN'NM AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION. TP-TANIANS WILL BE LIl( THE REST OF
AUSTRALIA.
CRAY IF THE HRO-ILEMIC CChMISSION HADN'T AEADY SPENT THIS MONEY AND I HAD
IT IN MY POCLT, BOJ3, I'D PiT IT THE RESULT.
MR GRAY'S ASKED FOR FAVOURABLE CONS IDRATION OF FISHING LICEN~ CES FOR
TA2WTIA.... WHY HAVE YOU BEEN DOIM ZS?
HAWKE WELL, SPEAKIG PERSONALLY, I'VE SAID TO MR CRAY TAT I AM TWEL DISPOSED
TOCADS THE DESIRE OF TASIMNIA TO MfY AND GE SCME SHARE OF THESE NE
FISHING VETURES, AND TO ( PURESS A PERSONAL VIE1 IT SMiS TO HE THAT
TAS 4AIA DOES HAVE DISADVANTA(; ES, THROUGH ITS ISLMD STATUS AND THE
EME4iT THAT THERE ARE DISADVAITAGES IN THE ISLA1D STATUS, IT SEn-JS TO HE
FAIR IF WE CAN TO GIVE THR-1 SOME BMIKFIT 1, ROM THAT STATUS. I MADE IT
CILAR TO THE PRER THAT IN THE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE mIISTmR FOR
PRIMARY IIDUSTRY, THAT THAI ATITIJDE OF MME SHOULTD BE MADE M4N. AS
THE PR~ xIER UNDERSTANDS THE RIGHTS OR THE COERN S OF OTHER STATES, NEW
SOUTH WALES AD VrICORIA, HAVE TO BE, ALSO CONSIDEIM, BUT I REPEAT
I HAD A DISPOSITION OF TIS IN THAT RESPECT AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
QUESTION: ONE FINAL QUESTION, ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED AT THE PAYM4ENT OF THIS ONEY
WITH NO GUARANTEE FROM TASANIA THAT THE DAM WILL NEVER BE BUILT?
MR HAWKE:
WELL, WITH RESPECT TO THEP PRMLE, IT'S NOT IN ILS PROVINCE. 1THI HIGH COURT
AS HE SAYS, IS THE HIGHEST COURT IN TM [ AND, HAS RUED ON THIS MVTTER. AND
THAT IS THE POSITION. NOM I HAVE 1O REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE HICH COURT CF
AUSTRALIA IS GOING TO CHACE ITS RULIZG. WHIME THAT RULIMG STANDS, THEN
THE POSITION IS THAT THE DM WILL NOT BE BUILT, AND THE PREMER IS NOT
QUIBBLING ABOUT THAT. HE ACCE--PTS THE DECISION OF THE HIGH COURT.
CRAY: THAT'S CX) RRECr SITUATION AND THE ONLY DIFFECE IS AS I UNDERSTD TMIl
SITUATION, THE DECISION RESTS WITHT~ E MISER OF THE DAY AND A FJLUTJRE TNE
A DIFFEREM IMISTER MIGHT PAVE A DFERET ATTITUDE, PUT FOR THE TIE
BEING AT LEAST, THE DAM WILL NOT BE PROCEEDING AND THAT'S THE SITUATION,
WE ACCEPT IT.
QUESTION: IF THW DOES HAPPEN IF A FIUTMRE GOVME0NMt DID APPROVE THE DAM, WOULD YOU
GIVE THIS EY BAUX TO THE CalOMWEALTH?
GRAY: OH I DON'T KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO TAMK ABOUT THA, WOJDN'T WE.
HAMPE: ONE, Tiiw THAT YOUj otii To LEARN ABOUT POLITCS IS THAT GETTING 1EI2CAGED IN
HYPOTHESIS IS A VERY FRUITLESS, UNRISRDIN 4EMRCTSE AND I CAN ASSURE YOU
YOU'RE IN ANWAY IN T= ING ABO'JT THE POSSIBILITY OF THE DAM.
EMS