I PRES, S OFFICE TFMASCRIPTSLNI hY, -5 OC'DO3BRI, 1980
PRIHn-_ 14IHISTFER IN~ TRVIEWMD BY NEIL~ AD~ COCK~, 6PR, PBRTH
TALK~-BACK(
Adcock-Now, it'is ih' very great pleasure to have in the studio the
Prizae. Minister of Australia, Rr. Ralcolm. Fraser. 1Ielcome
Mr,, Fraser.-
Prime MLinister
Thank you very much.
Adcick..
We -talk-t o ' you abo-ut. once -a month -arid wea0vr ga od so,
and it is nice to have you in the studio in person.
' Prime MIUnister
Well, I welcome thei opportunity of speaking with you and through
the station to yout Jisteners.
Adcock A3Md-of bourse-we are on line to the goldfields tonight,. so you
will have a lot of Kalgoorlie listeners. Pnd w~ e will reverse
charges if they wouldl like to phone in. -I suppose we get -so much
discossion about the individual issues, that I thought I would
like to get you to talk for a little while at the beginning of
our time4 tonight about the basic different philosophy between Say)
your Governmrent and the Liberal Party in particular# and say the.
Labor Party: you know, behind the sort of package deal that you
axe off ering as incentives for people to vote and the L-abor Party
doing the same. Obviously there is a philosphy behind the two.
Your philosophy would be different from that of Mr. Bill Hayden,
for example, Could you perhaps just briefly ' outline w~ hat you
see as the basic difference between those two philosophies?
Prime . Minister
In dom~ estic policy, a very essential part of the diiferan-e i6a
that we believe that what Governmrenta can sens. ibly do in
that we have got to try and keep taxes as low as possible so that
individuals will have as imuch to pursue their own lives their
own way, and as msuch to look after their families aa possible.
When Governments need'to act, we should direct our resources
to areas of specific need. But we should not try and do Ithose
things that either individuals or corporations canf do very mruch
better than Government. Govern~ ment shoiuld not get in hhic
of competin~ g wit-h private enterprise. it sholuld not 9,, t in the
bvsiness oi interfering unnecessarily with uhat individua-t8 ' nd
ccmparties might want to do right a ound Austr~ alia. We elso
in l. eaving things to th3 States m-ach more tEhan the Labo)
d U i tinnosthat Goarneta3 t3olt 7o ~ l
I
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80
Prime I'Lnister ( continued)
.4.
a being quite critical about that, if... the Labor Party sees a problem,
Iu st ins yt ey ettheGoermen slv i1 1thro
some money at the problem,. and then hope'it will disappear. But
often-in throwing the money at the problem,-. you canmake it worse'.
AdcockA At the same time, there have. been quite a . nwnber of times during
the course of-your ' Government when you have had to step iihand
say place controls on governments, -or you have been interested
of courge in conswnmer af fairs because: . you believe that free
enterprise perhaps let go can have some problerL.*
Prime RiUnister
Well, we recognise there Is a role-for Government in many, many*-
-areas,] but do not believe in Governwent intrusion just for
th s-eof c-3nte oeoGoverrnment;-J'. at-for-the-sake..
of. inozeasing the influence of people in. Canberra or the influence
of politicians in Canberra. Yes, -we support restrictive trade__
practice legislation. We support consumer legislation. ObviLously,
sensible companies legislation. B~ ut, let me give you a clear*
examnple.' I n all the arguments that went on for years about the
powers '' offshore, and the High Court gave control of Jurisdiction
offshore'to the Comvionwealth, well the Labor Party have said th-at
they* would n~ ova in and exert total Commronwealth control put
their. LoWn departments out into the States to do all the things.-
that-the States have. done by and large quite well for a very long
period.-,-Well, we took quite a dif ferent view. Yven though. we. had
the power, we have negotiated and now legislated for a range of
agreements with the States in which we voluntarily shared the
powr that the High Court had given to us. we did this because
we-zecognise, that there are State admninistrations that have done
these-things for many years, and that that kind of extension of
Canbherra-basedl power is. just plain urecessary. You could give
another example of it: I was speaking with Sir Charles Court
tonight and, he was moaking the point that if it had not been for
the Whitlam years the North West Shelf project would have beenquite.
a distance -along the way. As everyone in Western Australia
L-am sure--knows, everything was signed up just a day or,. two ago..-
Uanpdrr 6tceh hattheLabr Prtywould want toadopt,
they would be wanti-ng. to make all the decisions which Sir Charles
and -his. G overnment have made, as I would believe, to the advanitaqie
of this s; tate. I do not believe Canberra has got ary business
interfering in that sort of bvsiness.
Adcook
Every. now.. and again you get into a bit of trouble where there is'
say a policy as far as the Federal Government is concerned which
seens -to.._ Conflict. with what is happening in th-e States-you know,.
the case in point weas the Noonkanbah situation, and you -have had
a.. bit-problezm with Mr.. Bjelke Petersen in Queenislai~ d ovsx -POlce
regarding . briiNucoew, s . I -guess what *-Vu try to do is to
* negotiate with the. State over that,., buL . if -the State sort of tli gs
its heels in,' you -are reluactant to use Coin. onwealth powers
to over-ride them.
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80._-3
Prime tKinister
Well, thefe is one thing I think that is sometimes overlooked.-
If the cause of Aboriginals is going to be advanced and I think
it has been enormously in recent years the Commonwealth and
State Governments do need to act in co-operation, in harrmony.
If you are going to have the. State admihistration and the Federal
administration having differing views and a differing approach,
then that is -going to frusb~ ate and hinder the developmaent of the
normal serviceswhich flow out to the -Aboriginal people,' quite
apart from hindering all the special progra3~ es which are very
specificallyldirected to Aboriginal people. The Commonwealth does
bel. ieve and this was the case with Aurukun that we ought to get
to a negotiated position with Queensland, which we did. I do not
want to add to anything that has been said in relationi to
Noonkanbah. But I amt-q uite sure that everygne hopers that these
matters can be properly. solved by negotiation on future
occasions.
__ Adcock Thank you very Touch. We would like to invite. listener$ to phone.
in. -The lines are now wide open, if you would'like to put a
question . to thf Prime Minister, or m~ ake a point.
Arnette is -the first. Hello Annette.
Caller Hello. . Good evening Neil and fir."-raser. I would Just like to
say hatI'm a parent and I think it is dis usting what your
Government has done to the teenagers of this country.. You've
made them really for A pittance, You've done nothing, you'vye
done nothing to help them and encourage them, even though' they
had good educations, some of them. And I think that unles's your
change your policy, you are going to be the loser, and well as
the children of this country. Avstralia's a lucky country, but
for all -the youngsters loo)~ ing' for work, it's very unlucky,
Pri-ne Minister
Well, I think we have done a very great deal for the young people
of this country. We have introduced a number of programmes which
are specif ically' designed to give training opportunities to youn~ g
people. This year, indeed, 230,000 or nore people will be assisted
under those training programmes. Ismtmstikta ' me
of theoin wouild not really b~ e necessary is schools wer8 doing
e ve r yt ing that they ought to do. But, be'that as it may, twe are
establislhing with teStates---dditional programas to help young
Aus~ ralians who leave -school-with inadequate skill * s or train~ ing
to get jobs and we are also goinbg to introduce a new training
allowance which will encourage eligible unermployed Aistraliais
-young Australians to go into a training OPPOrtunity. we are
workin~ g with the States to provide much greater funds ' for technaical
educat ion, -vocational -education. I think 1 is Is an area whicb has
been vexy. much-weail, it has been the poor cousinl in eduoati; Dm,
not I hin-so much over the last thiree Or " Our Years, but efr
that I certainly think it was. 3
6PR, 4-
Adcock Greater stress has been placed on academic education rather
than technical education.'.
Ptilue H4inister
I think the, secondary schcols have placedl much to6omuch stress
on academic education, and I think they have given many students
who j ust do -not cope with academic wr but probably have
other; skil1gwhjch should be drawn and encouraged a sense., of
frub& tiation,_. a sense of failure which then, if they do not: get a
job' when they leave school, is just compounded. I really do believe
* that it. is the job of. every school to find something that every
stu dent can do well. * I do believe there are things that every
at~ ident can do well and to the-extent that schools do not achieve...
1~-Vr egard the school as having failed the studenttnc mr
t -ha-nh e student as having failed at school, Butlover the last
year-there are a record nuiberof eprni-ee. a an
thveare willI . U'a ry a r. i int ake' this . com ing year. I think it. is
not ' generally realised that total employment over the last year
increased by over 200,000 -and that is the largest. increase for
ten years>, Hr. Hayd-en-Is offering to provide only 100,000 jobs.
at-a -very* considerable cost to taxpayers. something which in a
sense is' exciting, teenage, employment has gorwn over the last
12 months more than it has for 15 years. I think that single figure
is areal sign that the policies -that we have to assist your g
People -are. in Ifact working, and working effectiv~ 1y.
Call16r Good evening tyou.-both, ApThe Liberal Governmentpurchase3
the VIP aircraft in spite of public controversy over the cost to
the taxpayer of $ 42 million,, plus maintenance, -etcetera.
Press reports tell us that in f ive years of Government, the Liberal
Party's overseas trips in the VIP aircraft have cost the taxpayer.
over $ 12. million infspitiL of our pledge not to be a tourist
Prime M. inister. .14ay. I ask 14r. ? raser who sanctioned the use of
the ' VIP aircraf t at-a cost of 000 to the taxpayer for
Mr. Anthony to fly to t4. S. W. in order to be a character witness
tzravel-on-a commercial flight for his own personal business..
This phenomenal cost to the poor--tax~ ae f~, 0 for Just a few
minutes in a court of law.
Prime M'inister
Xr. Sinclair. is a collegeau of Mr. Anthony's.. Mr-AnthonY had'_
been on business that he had to do because he was Deputy Prime
Kiiister and Min ister for TJrade.-When he was askL: d to be a
chairacter witness for Ian Sinclair, he obviously-wanted to be, and
it hatd to be fitted with other schedules and other engagements, : 1
* regard the ' use, of the aircraft as a completply proper one, I think'.
the way that Ian Sinclair had been pilloried-through the Parliamnent,
evidence that had comne out of that Corporate Affairs-C-otruission
into'the-Parliament to denigrate his name, part-heard, was'tota). y
disgraceful and a denial of natural justice in Pustralia*. And every
rmemberof the Labor Party from Mr. Hayden down shouild be totally
S of A -the e~ L' . bc c~ ur -t Om3tt
ir: that-particula r matter. That would be the genteral view, I an
6PRI 5/ 10/ 80 SPrime
Minister ( continued)
certain, of the Australian community, Mr. sinclair was founcd
to-be totally innocent of trumped-up and politically based
charges laid by the NSW Government, by the NSW Corporate Affairs
Comission ' under the Director of the NSW Attorney-General. i an
very glad that Mr. Anthonfdid go to act as character witness for'
M4r. Sinclair. But I would tlike to say something if I could.
I was not asked a question,-the other things were stated as facts.
The cost of those aircraft is only a mere fraction well, -it'
certainly was not $ 42 million 1 think it was about $ 7 million an
aircraft. They do a great deal of work for the Cefence forces.
They are defence aircraft. They ar'e not in the VIP fleet. ' They
have been carrying ref uqeea from Australia to this couritxy. ' They
have been carrying-Australian troops to Butterworth on many
occasions. They have been carrying Austral * ian military personnel
to the United. States, who have to go on defence purchase missions.
F'or many of these tasks, if the defence transport 707s were no t
available, defence-yould. havke had to charter aircraft as they used
to before they owned them. -' So far PieIiiser4
conaerned, one of the considerations in purchasingte aic t
was the security advice which-1 ad been. givens that I do travel
* internationally on a commercial aircraft, I am putting-tlfti 300 or
400 other passengers at an unreasonable. level of risk. 1 cannot
emphasise too strongly that point, it would be'alittle -late
to apologise to the relatives of those 300 or 400 passengers if
ant aircraft went down because an Australian Primne Hinister happened
to be on the aircraft. This is a very material point, and the
major point apart from the defence use, in the purchase of the
aircraft. The only other thing that I would like to say is that
if the Parliamentary record is read out accurately, it will be seen
that in ' current day prices the number of visits on an annual
basis by my Ministers has been muach less than that under the
Labor years, and it will also be seen that the number of vistsby
Prime Ministers were less on an annual basis and the cost
overall was a fraction of the cost in the Labor years. I would
also say -I am sorry about this, but the question had a slight
political tmfotivation in it, I think I ought to give the answer-
I tbink. there Is all the difference between looking at Creek
ruins'and contributing to the Comonwealth resolving the very
difficult racial problems in Zimbabwe. I think the recent meeting
I was--at in New Delhi wbere 16 members of the Cor~ Ofwealthregional
cou) ntries al1l met together to discuss practical
prolem -I make no apology for this, it is to those sorts of
mneetings where practical co-operation is advanlzed, where racial
tensions are eised, and the possibility of war in Southern A~ frica
grea2tly xeduced; they are very productive results from
Australia's foreign policy in recent years and fromn Trhy
participation in it. Whatever the cost ' has been, it has been
very, very much worthwhile in the interests of Australia and of a
wider community.
-1 1-
* 6PR, 5/ 10/ 80
Cong-ratulations. And very best wishes for your election.
Could-I ask you though, is ther Government goinAg to introduce
conscription in. peacetime. if not, where are the rumours
cozfingff rom?
Prime Mini ster
The rumours ' are coming from the Australian Labor Party. Let
metef-yousomthin tht hppened in the parlianent in the last
week; Wran said we were going to introduce conscription..
I'said we were not, KiXff-said we were not, tat it was
not' Government. policy.-r. Hayden said we were going to introduce
conscription, and he said he had a document to prove it.
Kr. Xillen to double check, werit to.-the Chief of the Defence*
Force Staff,: to-the Secretary of Defence, to the Service Chiefs,
atheof had bseen doing any wvork wich he as Minister
ht~ niof'boenn eaOf ut shbldhavei'betn iriormed, on; Th
all saia -no, they had been doing no work) there was no Defence
Department document on the subject of conscription and the
preparation for conscription. Teso-called exeroise was given
a somwhat * dramatic and Draconian term, operation Manhaiulw.
I think-that-shobld have, made people cautious to start with, because
if you were undertaking that operation, I am sure you would not
bcel -In t*" Operatiort Hanhaul". But the Defence people vent on
look-ing.* Theyfouna that some CMI' Reserve of ficers. and these are
part-time people who'do a wonderful job of servIce to the country
had set themselves * an exercise, in their own way, as to ' h t wuld
happen if there-had-to be conscription at some tins in ~ the future.
Reserve-officers set themselves exercises all the time all
around the country. But that does not make what they do
Goverrnment policy. -It appeared that this particula-r exercise,'
and the document that Mx. Hayden-claimed he had, or thought he had,
camre out an--exercise of this kind. In other words, it was a
classroom operation, a schoolbook pperation, whicb had nothing
whatever to do with defence policy.--I have not the slightest
doubt that Mr, Hayden, knew that, -and Mr. lWran knew that, when they
first ra-ised the question. It was a cruel and base deception,
Mdooch
f reported in tohight's news that because some of the polls recently
. f I-seem to have been going against the G~ overnment and f avouring the.
J~ * i~ 7 Labor Party, that there was A possible switchi your errphasiis
-rmeconomicft~ a . gemen-t-to'defence -and natjo al ~ eurit~~ w
is that so?
Prime*-minister
It is not a switch. I have-been speaking about defence matters
through the coxnse of the-last week. t-fts notbeen vastly
.* reported. it is true I am going to speak ab: out defence tomorrow
at the puiblic raeeting at lunchtime, -because it is. Vezy c in th!
rinds of people in Western Australia, and we are spsnding quidte
lot.-oftre' biiilding-f acilities-a t Cookburn . Sound, upgriad ing
I. airfthiee Lleadrm onth airbase, esto. blishing a new tact'cal antrategi;
i t Dcrb7. Yt. a ai SZic-1.5 bCz.. t hate 2rtir', or home-
7 porting United States' ships are relevant to " Cckburn Sound.
6P1R, 5/ 10/ 80 -7-
Prim~ e IMinister ( contirtued)
There is increased surveillance and patrolling Of the Indian
Ocean, so this is a logical place erth to talk about
defence. I had always intended to do so, but it is not a new
tack or. a change or whatever.
Adcock* What about the polls that have been coming out. othey
distuxrb you?-
Prime Minister,
They do not disturb me, because I thinX they are really
going to shak~ e whatever complacency there has been out of the
hair of Australian men and womsen, I think too m~ any wom~ en have
a bew aisshuumtineg ftohtat theT h-aGto pvaerrnt moefn tiist gios inngo t tot rubee.. re-tTuhrenreed iesa gs iilyng
to-be---a f ight. But an -s-uxe -at the. edof it.. Ve wilIl havce an
adequate majority, * and a majority in the Senate, ibecaue I ust
cannot belifeve-that thib'Australian-people are going to, throw away
the gains of the last five years and go back to re-cycled Whitlam
policies . whicki is what xr. liayden is offering.
Caller Itru a. spokesperson for the Social Welfare Action Group in
Western Australia, so my questions obviously are going to be
relating to social welfare. 1' would ' like ' to put to you, IMr,. Praser,
that the. non-Government welfare sector is i~ a situation of slow
death; that in the Lieraj party policy platform there has been
the promvise to give continuedlsipport to the noni-Governm~ ent welfare
sector. In reality these groups have not had-their grants
indexed since 1975, so this means in effect there has been a
50 per cent cut. For instance, ACOSS, which you know IRr. Fraser
-is the Australian Council Of Social Services, they are at present
experiencing the effects of this funding cutbacl to the point of
being near bankruptcy. At present they are still awaiting on
renewal* of their Government grant. One of the results of such
cutbacks is that the'voluntary welfare agencies are now facing an
enormous emergency relief bill. They are pic~ king up the tab for
the Government. due to the inadequacy iin the amuts -provided for
pensions and benefits, Xr. Fraser, you tnentioned the isas~ of
unemployment with one of the previous callers. I would like to
dra'W to your attention that uneployment is now about 180,000 more
in nuz > ar than when your Gove4rnment came into office. And, I also
would like to draw to your attention the latest figures as pr-oduced
by tZhe Brotherhood of St. Lawrence and confirmed by Pxofe~ so
Henderson* show that there are approximately 2 million Australi"-ns
living below the poverty line. This figure includes. faziiie3.
with young childriEfi-I'ahszkf-r y ou, Rr. FraSer, Whether yoza
will. give an unequivocal undertaking -firstly to provide adequate
funding for the voluntary welfare sector, and by adequate I menan
incdev. ed funds-, and secondly, whether you -will bring the anokint
f~ Ct~ h ~ iArid b_-enef its to -above the ~ pover~ y line.
6PlP, 5/ 10/ 80 -0-
Prilize Minister
. We-are. giving miuch greater funds to welfare and to non-government.
ozganisations. -1 would-have to ask Senator Guilfoyle. about
the. -particular grants to particular organisations, but the funds
we -are giving, and the co-operation that. we are pursuing, with
non-governmnt-organisations is very -very substantial indeed.
nl Dut~ thexe axe a number-of. things that.-I would like to say-
Pensions * during the ' past i-hree years have reached * a higher
proportion of average weekly earnings because of our policies of
-indexing penisions-twice a yerto. the ConsumrPieIne. Te
arew a-higher proportion of average weekly earnings than. they _ have..-
ever been. NoCw, 1. know Nr. IMayden in, his policy rpeech said that
i n the Budget he introduced pensions got to 25.2 per cent of
average.. weekly earnings-and that they had fallen since. But the
f igure. that. he gave, I am af raid was not re al ly an accu?. ate~ one.,
because he took the peniolelastwa goin to be in
N~ ovember of 1975 and put it over the average weekly earning figure
as it was in June of 1975, when be should have put the pension
-fi-ur jN ove'ber-. 19-7-5. over -the Novembe. r. 19.75., avcrag! e wely
earnings to get an. accurate f igure. In the years Since 1975,
pebsioiis -have come'to a-higher proportion of average weekly
eazrings. the. n it-ever d~ d during the Labor years. So that ' does
not-seem to indicate--increasing difficulty as your. question would
~ imply-.---And also, in. the, last Budget, We introdu-ed. substantially I
increased benefits to.-assist I think well over halt'a millio?----
between half a million and three quarters of a million childrenwh,
6-are. the children of welfare beneficiaries.' That was a very
substantial increase overall costing significantly' over
millioni.:' There are other areas where we have done a good
dea-for-the hand icapped.-We know-are running programmes hc
we--introduced by Government in support of the States and it)
support of non-goverrment oxganisations to suppoi~ t family support
services, -f ifilies in diff iculty. -Here wie are going to introduce,
as, I Indicated in the-policy speech, an extended. programmeoffAmy
-upr-serviWcee sar. e--going to establish. iatmtihn e. Sttes
crisis--accommodation for famidlies that-get evic tea or have.. nowhere
to go, and -often the State H~ ousing Commiissions do ' riot' hold
acccomodatiomem pty and ' available for such circuwr. taflces. We axe.-
going to, do that establish-that k ina of crisis accoymodation
for:-fami liesV--We have a. new hormelese ,* peraon,. programe. Which Will
concentrate * on providing accomodation for homeless, youth&. * We
have provided support for handicapped people, for disadvantaged
people physically and mentally* handicapped -and Over the lastthree
years the resources that we are putting'into that areais
8 per cent in real terms over and above the resources that-
1were put into that a-rea in the three Labor. years. . That* -sF a verysubstantial
-increase. -We are developing prograxmes which are
designed to enable handicapped people, whatever -their handicap
isI-to live in the coimunity, in dignity. and self -esteem.. and not
tjo be-pushed-aside as-somthi-ng. separate-and-different--a -used to
happen, and still does in. some cases, with handicapped people.
It is taking., very large resources.. There Is a. lot still to be
done.. But a good deal of progress is bi nad In just 6ne area'
we have proved already, and earmarked the fuinds within'the'
Aexpenditure prograirmes of the Government, for over 800 progratmnes
-ver th nt -2h year s -3-years, to Iassistth6 handicapped-othe
kind that I have mentioned to assist organisations -to build
more ho'nes for elderly people and to establish More sanior
Centre -zhethey do not.-nfowv exist. -hat is a
record of vr
63PR, 5/ 10/ 8O 9
Prime Minister ( continued)
Ina Sense, I am sorry that the question is put in the terms
that AIt is, because I do not think it is in accord with the
facts and the actual record of the Government. And one other'
small thing that we are going to do is to establish a small but
hope large In its impact a national children's foundation
in co-operation with the States and with voluntary organisations,
to helti-cope with the problems of child abuse, to have a better
education of~ the whole community that this is a real problem;~ that
there are a lot of cases that do not know get reported, and thereis
miuch t-hat the community and more that some voluntary
or-ganisations can do to help that. The only other comnment
that 7 would like to make is one that Professor Henderson himself
made-in his report on poverty. That is, that inflation does more
harm to poor people and ink a sense, more than discounts any
benefits that particular programmes ' might have for people. Hie said
that the control of inflation is terribly. Imprtant f'r-the poor
peoleir ' the c6ommunity. Our efforts-in that regard should not
be overlooked. That is not something that just helps business, it
helps people.
Adcock, It might be an idea, since Sebina has sort of put her case in
writing, Ibecause she stated it quite concisely, that perhaps she
might, like to send that information to Senator Guilfoyle and
ask for specific answers.
Prime Minister
Well, if we have it in writing here I would bp-very happy to
get an answer, and 1-will give you a copy of the answer also,
because if you are ; asking about the I do not carry in my mind
the precise _ funding arrangements for every individual organisation,
and I am sure Margaret Guilfoyle would have a very precice and
effective answer to the precise question about ACOSS for example.
Adcock I'd also just like to know you r reaction I know this is far too
* involved to go into to but your general reaction to the Catholic
Church's report on peace and justice and its emphasis On poverty
in Australia.
Prine Miinister
I thi3k it is Tiporte-It to pay prop.-r regard to Well., it is niot
the Catholic Church's report. It is the particular Cominission..
Adcock The Catholic Con-mssion.
F i Z:
which has a very particular relationship. -A report was* put ot. t
once before and the Bishops issued a statemnt idicating that theñ
saying or trying to suggest that that wa3 so in--this Qase, but it
6PR, .5/ 10/ 80
Prii* 6 Kinister ( continued)
9, Prine m~ inister
I.: th inrk th at is a fair enough question. There is not really wage
-control through. the. Arbitrat-ion Commission because the Government
1' certainly cannot, control it. what there is the Arbitration
Commission" is, ina sense, the third man, or -the wnpirie, Ehat
settles arguments between-employers arid employees. It is not-,
controlled,. in the strict sense, that arbitrary limtits are placed
on-wmages as a result of ' the PArbitration Commission. It-does, in
any etermination of the Commission,; establish. a minimum-whichemplyerp.
a cnlneos thn tat inium. But trade unions
and 1-think not always to their ' own advantage often negotiate
* with companie> o-paymenhts higher than that that tekbtrto
-Commission establishes.. I think.. that is one of the things* thathelps
sometimes to dissuade companies from employing more pe.-ople,-
but nevertheless it happens. Aknd so it is -jot really wage contrl
-it is a-way of settling an argument... There is the PriceJstfct
" Tribunal which do-es-cana arnd it does -report on price cbanges
-in a~ -nuber of areias, in a number of industries' The -patrol
industry is one. which is subject to continuous reporting, and I
thn for. very-obvious reasons. ut pric-es -pre aiso restrin. b
was -in another. case on another subject,* which I had becorae
involved in. I think the whole commnunity must be concerned about
those * who are less well off. it is tight -_-and proper that
Church -orgarijeations and voluntary organisations. should show ' a
great. concern in these areas. But one of the things that people
sometimes forget is that if we are-to look after the disadvant-aged,
if we-are to look after the old, if we are to establish the
oir Iumstances where all people at all times can live i. n dignity
and -teiifesteem, we have to build a more properous and wealthier
country. All of this takes great resources.. I think it is about
$ 1010.00 ' Million a year going in* welfare payments through the
Departm~ ent of Social'Security. _-It is an enormous sum It cannot
bei plucked-. off a cargo cult tree. If we are goin~ g to improve. the
services to the poor, to -the old, to the disadvantaged, to the
sick,, then we need a country that it groing in wealth and
p;, sperity so that not only families and individuals have the
resources for their ownr needs Government-will also have the
resource . s to enab -" it-to provid'e th-e kindof -services-that: parple--
want in a modern society. 1 think people sometimnes. forget that
we -have a particular-concern in these welfare areas; that a
Government. tha does not pay attention to the grow th in the
economy to the expans ion -of the economy, is not really acting in
thei best interests of people who need help in the community,
because if you do not pay attention to a growiflg economy ultimately
you -are-not going . to have the resources to provide the sorts of
services to establish the sorts of programes that,% you teart.
Caller*-What I would like to bring up is a-double.-question. First of all
concerning wage and price control, is that the Goverment has
an arbitration system to control the wages.-. you know, the prices
to'take their own couxse. When we are trying to balance your
income a-nd your income expenditure you would have to take the
two-sades into account.-
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80 1
Prime Minister ( continued)
there is vety relcompetition between the different
manufacturers. They are doing. everything they can I know to
keep prices * as'' low as possible because one manufacturer wants to
pinch-. sales off another mraiufacturer. This sort of competition
out in the commercial world again puts a very real ceiling on
the kind of price levels that people can ef fectively ask, So, it
is not really, accurate to say that there is wage control and
nothing that can help to bring down the prices, You have got to
look at the sort of circumstances that exist in wages.
negotiations and the kind of market circumstances which make it
very difficult* sometimaes for companies or businesses to put Lip
prices.. Caller M -Prize Minister, would -it -he feasible. o. veneftf....
re-elected, to reduce the taxes payable by ernployers-by a certain
amount f or every new person they employed, For this to work
without the Governmrent having to find. extra funds for this: scheme
the amount redifced per, petson would be equivalent to that of the
unemployment, benefits, thus, in effect having two main goals.
one, a ssistin~ g employers in increasing staff as arsl fmr
money from less tax payable; and, two, decreasing the numbers
unemployed. ' Could such a.-scheme be considered?
Prime Minister
Schemes of that kind have been considered. I think you would find
it very hard to make them work effectiVely, because what would
happen is that reducing the payroll tax-which is a State tax
anyway it is not a Colmmonwealth tax reducing the payroll tax in
that way would end up by subsidising a. lot. of employment which was
going to take place anyway,_ LBecause even if an employment
situation is static within a State not going to change over
the course of the year when you -looked at the position. of
individual firms, the firms that were doing well you would find
would be expanding employment and therefore they would be getting a
payroll tax rebate if that is what you called it and the6 firms
that were doing badly would be reducing employment siinPly because
So, over a period of time you would end up with a Government
subsidy for a lot of increase in employment for all those firns
that were doing well and that increase in employment probably % would
have taken place anyway. I -think the on~ ly way xreal te; P-~
employment is to do what we ate doing: to get Australian businesses
profitable so that we sell more Austral ian-made goods in Australia
and we sell more Australian-made goods overseas, Manufacturipg
exports increased by 30 per cent, last year, and that obviously
mca~ s those fir-is are employing more people. over the whole of last
Year, we . got m~ ore than 200,000 more pepe. in employment than.
12 months ago. Tihat is the best. qrotthof employmnent for 10 yar.
That all comes. out of -rof itable enterprIse and profi2tale ind~ ustry.
TAheze -is one othar thing that perhaps I sbould explaii-, b caus
paople would say ' well, if employment grew b3y 200,000 wThy djd
un!: ployyment growl. Well, there is a measure of pe~ ople entsring
' Uh-work~ force which the Statistician calls the participation) rate.
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80
Prime M& inister ( continued)
it generally I
one per cent r
in the workpli
people who we~
means a.. lot o,
fact is'what t
participation into the* WcWk1
employme-nt hac
falling by arc
Caller Mr. Fraser,: y
statistics*
miake hundreds
but you can s
and what you
Young but. 1 am~
adult voter -o
Prime Rifiste:
-Can, I asR whai
Caller I'. d li-ke a jol
prime Hiniste:
But. what* are'
Caller well, I.' Ve go
to fourth yea:
P> rine ? iniste
now old _. re y
Caller Seventeen.' Pr ime-lHiriste
Seventeen., caller ~ luctuates around 61 per cent. But if you get
sore of adults in the country waxzing to pprticipate
ice, 62 per cent instead of 61 per cent, that means
: e not in the wor~ force are entering it, then that
E extra peopl. e become available ' for work.'-This in
~ appened over the last year: the change in the
rate * brought about another 90,000 or 95,000 people
Force. If that had not happened and if the e>-tra
I still occurred, you would have had unem~ ploym~ ent
, und that figure.
) u might Xnow me, I am one of Mr. Viner's juggled.*
rn 1975. you promised that private enterprise would
of thout-ands of jobs for. Australians. -You have had
I unenplwyment-is -worse.--You -cannotqi9veend
millions of taxpayers'mnoy on two VIP p). anea
tave to remeraber Mr." *' raser is that I might be
the young adult voter of tomorrow. I will be the young
F tomorrow.
t you. are _. oing-or whbat you_ woulcd-liketo-be doing?-
D. I'Ive got-good qualifications.
youx qualifications?
t. the, third year certificate -for fourth year,. up
r. ou?
J r~ l U -ii 8tssho? 12
6PR, 5/ 10/ 8013
Caller No. And I've gota correspondence certificate in Maths. I've
got a correspondence nearly in Human Anatomy and Physiology.
Prime Minister
What sort of job would you like?
Caller Anything to do with hospitals, or any job I can get. At the moment
which I'm trying, I go for about three to four jobs a day and
everyone turns
Prime Minister
Which'employmeht office have you been goihg to6-ff help?
Caller Greenwood. Prime Minister
What is your full name, Gloria what?
Caller Edmunds. Prime Minister
Gloria Edmunds. Well, could I make some inquiries just to see how
you have been getting on and to see if something can be done to
help? Would you like me to do that?
Caller Yes, if you like, but
Prime Minister
And have you thought of going to any of the training programfnes.
How long have you been out of a job?
Caller About 8, 9 months.
Prime Minister
When did you leave school?
Caller When did I leave school? In February of 1978, I think it
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80
Caller 13
No. -And I've gota correspondence certificate in Maths. I've
got a correspondence nearly in Human Anatomy and Physiology.
Prinme Minister
What -sort of job would you like?
Caller
;; i
: c; 3
ii . i.
i
r: i:: Prime Minister
What is your full name, Go16ia what?
Caller dmunds.
Prime Minister
Gloria Edmunds. Well, could I make some inquiries just to see how
you have been getting on and to see if something can be done to
help?.: Would you like me to do that?
Caller Yeas if you like, but
Prime Minister
And have you thought of going to any of the training programmes,
Bow long have you been out of a job?
Caller
Abolit* 8" 9 months
Prime Minister
When-did you leave school?
Caller When did I leave school? In February of 1978, 1 think it was,-
1 ; 1 r r
r r L_ i-tL I-Li'i,
Anything to do with hospitals, or any job I can get. At the moment
which I'm trying, I go for about three to four jobs a day and
everyopne turns
Prime Minister
Wh-iche.. lnoyment of t ice have you-been going to -for. hep
Caller Greenwood. I
j
1: i;
r. 5:
~ 4 il. i t s-
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80 14
Prime Minister
Why did you leave in February?
Caller Why did I leave in February?
Prime Minister
Yes, I know. BUt that is bhe beginning of the school year, not
the end of the school year.
Caller Because I'd just returned from England.
Prime Minister
What were you doing in England?
Caller At school.
rPrime Minister
Oh, you were at school in England.
Caller Yes. Prime Minister
Did you go to school in Australia?
Caller Yes. Prime Minister
How long were you at school in England?
Caller Two years. Yes, about two years.
Prime Minister
And you finished your schooling in England did you?
Caller Yes. P rime Minister
j What, when you were if that was in 1978 trm sorry to ask thesa
questions, but I am just trying to understand if that 1, as ix i9
4 YOU Lett 610hool \ en yjdo u'W , -hd a nii19
is
callei* Sixcteeh'. Sixktee4n;-i'hy didn't you stay , on at school then?
Caller Recoause-we returned -to come back to Australia.
Priiie-binister
I . kzib'w,;. but.. you could have gone to school. here, to get better
qualifications.-Why didn't you do that?
Caller..---fecr1a me back from England, ' I did not really know anyone and
I : wanted a job.'
T-Prihie Miister
I know, -but if you did not have the job
Caller-
_ Yeah, but. 1 wanted a job, which; I'm entitled. to,. lihe everyother
YO=. g Australian is.
P rimen nse
1 know.-Dut at the age of sixteen, which you would have been then,
a lot of people go on and stay in school to getbetter
qulifiatioris to give them a better chance of getting a job. And
I amn trying to understand why you lef t school at the age of
sixteen. instead of going on and having that extra year. or. an extra
Couple of years ira school, which probably would have given you
a better " chance of. gettingr'the job you want at a hoapital. or
Whatever.
-Caller--Well, ' after I f inishe-d school, I viean, I've done a M{ aths
correspondence couarse, and I'mn doing a huran anatomny and
physiology~ course, to help m~ e ge-t into a hospital, but I'mn willing
totake anything at the mnoment which thersnolbaondt
get. You go on abo.-t hundreds of thousands of 5obs here and there
and that,' but there' 6i no jobs.
Prime' Mintister
That: i S*-int quite. righ. t. ', here: are'jobs, bPCallse there are
~ T nov: WweDrr&~ PQe. p ' ea r Ac o. -Last
year', te--nage ec-LploytAert -Srew by nor-than it had fo 35yarz
fo-w, that iofgn thi.-gs sta-iting to look up. a bit. What."
* woul& liA. ei* tod I will gqt in touch -with that em~ r2oymnent . o
which are. a-vai lable to help Pie l~ oreft qet the I
6PRI, ! 5/ 1/ 80
6PR, 5/ 10/ 8O16
Prime minister( cofltiflued)
qualifications necessary for work. Would you be intereated-in
participating in one of those training programmes?
Adcock I think she's gone. Anyway, thank you. The point is there, and
you will check this one out.
Prime Minister
Yes. And Diwill. let you know too, because she we~ uld certainly
be eligible for training programmes, having been unemployed
for that time and of that age.
Caller Mr. Fraser. Unfortunately Australia is in the same predicainzent
of most countries of the world when elections are going on. It
has developed into I suppose you would call it a personality
( inaudible)-andthe -electorate -of Australia ara -now-faced-real-lyto
pat it quite bluntly is it Mr. Hayden or Mr. Fraser we
vote for. Our own members of our own individual electorates
no longer seem to matter very much to us, because as you know it
is a Party s~ tstem. But, the thing that is bewildering myself
and everyone I have spoken to, and I guess anyone who has been
watching TV recently, they are bewildered by your speech followed
by. Mr. Hayden's speech in which the economy and what the welfare
and all the other things that you are both promising revolves around
how much it is going to cost. * You argue with Mr. Hayden that
his is going to cost more than he says, and he on the other hand
argues that yours is going to cost more than you say. Now,
Mr. Hayden has challenged you -' or shall I Just put it asked you,
to appear together on TV and discuss the matter in a sensible
manner so that the whole of the electorate of Australia can make
a complete judgement. You have refused to meet him so far. I ask
you why do you refuse to meet him, and will you change your mind
and meet him before the election day?
Prime Minister
Mr. Howard is the Treasurer of the Conmonwealth. Mr. Howard is
the person who is responsible, together with Mr. Robinson, for
all the costings and for the financial managem~ ent. I do Operate
a team. Mr. Howard 14 available to debate with F-r. Hayden any
day Mr. Hayden wants to. But he has refuced to. 1Mr. Howard isz
the figures man and he is the person that Hr. Hayden should
debate with. But you have raised the qUeStion a-bout costing.-I,
and I am glad you have, because six of those progzz_ ies OAZ
Mr. IHayden's -would cost $ 2.5 billion. An hyreoty
costings. They are not Mr. Howard's as a person, They are h
costing3 that were undertaken by ComnxnOnWealth Departmentst checked
by the Department of Finance, and they are hecostings that would
have to go-into any Budget that the Labor Party introduced, iE
you were going to do what was sai. d. Let rns-. give -you on e. z1
of where our costings have been \' eCy moderate. tir. Hayden hias
p rom i sed a Jo b c rea t n-re rro: xrrr e ~ nfl9O J
is only haldf the nurtber of jobs that we -2re in $ c r~ 13ti
in the course of a year. But, we Put that dc-n at 1I, Oct) iloi~
Two years Ago, or AL-h r a years ago with l " I h~ tla-: a ~ 2ye
6PRI 5/ 10/ 8017
Prime' Minister ( Continued)
offered a job creation schemre doing the same sorts of things
that woul1d have costed $ 800 million for 50,000. jobs.
$ 600 million for 50,000.-Ta was accurately. costed on the basis
of experience that the p evious Labor Government had had. So, if
we were taking those figbtres, we would have said the 100,000 jobs
would have coat double that: $ 1,600 mhillion. Well, we were very
modett in the costing an put it down a $ 1000 millions
Then,-to, courtter-a ttack, 1 Mr. Hayden published a document that
Mmra. n y Wthrainn ' ghsa-d wprreep acte-di c~ Vlhd6iec* hin wiats mtheaatn t wteore ben ot oixni'm" cyo spi~ noglisc. y-Wpe'lhl,.
Many thin l~ rei& uded-in it which are allowed for in h
Budget. They are already included in the Budget., extra money on
defence. Mr. Wran,_. In-or, coment,. even included the cost of the
now Parliament House as though it was an annual cost and as th;-ough
Mr., IHayd was-tg~ f to build it,. adl'cr~ e...
opi~ ith: Of. i n& kig the-decisi on he would be build ing Hr wran
also included the cost of half indexation as a tax Policy, which
iz there and'-btanding and allowed for. N64, it is not a cost
because it is, just part of current policy. if you went through
that N. S. W. document, the whole thing was a farce and obviously
th-rows Mr. Wran's credibility into jeopardy. ' The OAS thing I
think might br-ing it hope to people a little bit, is that the
cost of those six major programmes of Mr. Hayden's will be ni'ore
than $ 8 a week for ever. y. talxpayer in the country. That is what
it would cost, qjuite apart from all the other programmes that
have not been costed.
There is just one other point that I would like to make, because
I think this shows-that Kr., Hayden himself has admitted really
that the cost of his programmes will be well over $ 2 billion;
because he said that his progra. es would benefit families to the
extent of $ 20 a week. Now, if you work out for something like
2.3 billion or 4 billion families, at 20 a week, that comes to
well over bilo.' o f your promises are going to benefit
fatmothlieee xtnt f $ 0 aweek, the co~ st has to be very much
over $ 2 billion. Now, that is pretty much the costing that we
have indicated. -1 think that is a plain straight-out admisslon
that our costings, ae ivoderate, that our costirnV areacute
Caller I would-like to ask you, if we-produice-. 70 per cent of our ow,, n
oil supplies, why on earth do we have to have world parity prices?
prin-e kinister
We have to have world parity prices for thkee reasons: to
conserve Bass Strait. to uake it l. ast as long as possiblea, because
the supplies are scarce; to enciourage gre-ater exploration and
-evel-ient-for oil. an d Esso/$ Hx? alone. have cr~ te . le
to :$ U, 200 million Of extra expo.. raio an eoment so that.
to get pe-ople to develop alt-ernatives, stc~ -7-nh e te' i
the development of the RurIdle slhale oil deposits whcif all ~ e
well will com~ e on strear, about the t-ine Bass Strait startst to dry
7-is the only way a coa, 4in-ation Uhs P
the only way we can maintain Avistraliats sel -u it; 1 fciIY ara
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80 -1
-Prim~ e Minister ( continued)
security in fuel oils. It would be very easy for You, and for
me and for this generation to say " well, Bass Strait is there,
we will use it up and then in 1.0, 15 years time when it has gon-,
other people can* make adjustments'. But if we did that, it would
be a Very selfish policy, because it would be saying to our
children ' you are going t6 have to make adjustments much harsher
than anything that is in front of us. It would mean they would
be beggars for fuel on the international market. The * current war
between Irail'and Iraq has demonstrated how volatile the whole
situation is in that oil producing part of the world -in the Middle
East. Ther-is no guarantee that suppli * es will be available. It
-wold be-very easy for this war-to result in the Straits of Hormuz
being blocked. if they were blocked you have something like
per cent of the world's oil production going through those
Straits_.' It just would not. be able to get to the consuming
countries of the world. Then the difficulties for many, many
nations would be immense. Now we owe It to our children.. to pur~ sue
polcie to g9i~ va. e. th. em th e s. aame -ki. n, d in -depen de. n , ce-a nad
self-sufficiency in oil as. we have ourselves. You have got a local
example of what happens with the right policies. The North West
Shelf is an engrgy project: a massive one, the biggest thing
ever undertaken in Australia. But it would not go if there were
not the right pricing poiis fthere were not the right
encouragement for investment. But it is going to give
Western Australia, because they are the right policies, a great
source of energy. it will give Australia exports and it will also
mean a very large number of jobs. The great mining and
development projects will be one of the things which will provide
a -very real boost to employment in the years ahead of us.
So, there axe very solid xeasons why we should stay with the
policy. Adcock If -that Is the case, then Mr. H-ayden, who says that if he gains
Goverrnent he is going to freeze petrol prices for 12 Toonths,
what effect will that have?
Prine Minister
I think the policy, 1 am afraid, is a bit of a fraud, because
he has riot really said he would freeze petrol prices, He wouald
fre-eze the price of petrol out of Bass Strait. But 30 per cent
of what we buy still comes from overseas.-There is no way he can
freeze. that price. You would have to g0 on. payi-na 1whatever the
world price is for that. ' That is just another way of
devionstrating that if we let it go on just usina up Bass Strait
so that we do not have 70 -per cent of our own, you then have
then 40%, then 20% until it runs dow-n until almost nothing,
you are forced t'. o pay the . world price whatever it is. And the fact
that we have got our own oil or a substantial part of it enables
us to use as a bench-mark the lowest world bri-c-e is the Saudi.
A-rabian light crude price, and that is keeping our petrol a..
rnany European countries who get forced into ths spo-t
1It-aly is up to about 78 cents a litre, The capital city pric
of aro~ und 30 cents, 32 cents or soc-' ethinq; i5 a;. in th hwa.
our historical. standardz. I do riot li%( c-Ihen : 1so
is
* rz . t 6PTR, 5/ 10/ 8019
y4. 4 P rime Minister
I* think -it -is the best country in the world-. I really do..
-Caller I think so, too, and people should stop whingeing. -1 only wish
that people like the first caller would go back to '" Ie U., and
then-She would r~ ly have.~ ii
Prime M~ inister ( continued)--
the f uel bills' for--my farm, but
Adcock It won'~ t stay at 32 though, will it -' in-Australia? it ' Will go
* up considerably -more...
Prima, Z'nister 7
Well, there has been a'bit of scare talk recently about this.
Now, if the-war between Iran and Iraq had not taken place,, we'
would have been able to say quite categorically that '_ thei latest
* price--increase from Sauidi Arabia at $ 2.00' a barrel would have had
aiv. impact-if we had'applied that price* in-the normlz * course of'
events f-rom the* first of January-we would-be making the decision
SUppO~ e-. sO'etiMein Dec eim1-er--i t-would have had'an irnqc~ a
of significantly less-than a rcent a litre.' And it has that;
that ' impact. because of our strengthening dollar. It is a technical
matter,* but that' is just adjusting the ' Price as it -has been over
the-last couple of years'-less than a cent a-litre. Now, that
is* not a fright ening'change. That puts intU-perspectiveI1 think
the -sorts of claims that Mr." Haydent has been making that it is
going to po to 45 cents, almost in a matter of -weeks he suggests.
But the Middle East war has made it unpredictable. If that war
is controlled, if it ends, well then that probably will be the
position. Saudi Arabia is producing m~ ore to make up for the
shortfal.. But if the war did happen to * extend ' and I am not
predicting that -it will,-I tend to think that it will not but if
it-didl, and. if -there was major disruption instead of just
disruption from Iran and Iraq-,. then the worla would get into a
s rious position, Lahb or Party is the only political party
that.-I know of in the world, in the f ace of what--is -happening inthe-
Middle Last, that is going-around tryin~ g to suggest to people
that. they could get cheaper petrol... It is Just not on.
Caller: Mr. -Fraser, -welcome to Perth. I wish you~ go ) uck.
Prime Mnister
Well,--that--always help3.
Caller
Au str AIi a .: is a terrific country.
6PRo 5/ 10/ 80
Caller ( continued)
We can do without people like her. I have two sonts and they
have never been out of work because they. are hard workers, not
lazy.
Prime mi4nister
I have been saying in the last day or two that about a year or
two ago we $ ntroduced cheap air fares to Britain and to Buzope
* and to the" Uie States. We were obviously doing it for
tourist reasons, and to help people travel, and to help people go
and visit relatives and friends in"' other countrie's. But I have
been saying in a jocular way that it was really all part of a
*.-. deep-laid political plot, because : 1 wanted as many people as
possible to see wfiat Is happening in Britain, to see what is
happening . n Europe,* and the United States, end-then-they will know
very well that Australia is the best country in the world, and
we ae m31oh,. riuchbe t ter -off than people_ nmos t-pl ce.-
Caller I have great difficulty i n believing what you are aupposed to be
trying-to do for me.* I have worked very hard since I caine to
Australia. Every timte I see the average Australian wage, it makes
me laugh., My husband and 1, between us, do not earn that wage.,
Adcock What is the average weekly age as it was last given by the
Bureauo7f Statistics. Can you rememnber it Sheila?
Caller-Something like about $ 200
Adcock It's $ 200 and something i-sn'It it? About $ 230 or something.
Caller No, well we don't earn that -betw een us. We both work hard.
On top of that, I've got a teenage daughter that vl have struggled
tpoa spseust tehnrtoraungche perxivaiaatse tos chgoo oli, n toa ga oobdan ke ducation, leaves school,*-
no Jobs. Why no jobs?
Adcock
Well, there's the two issues there.
Prine* Minister
W~ ell, what do your. husband and yourself work at ther?
My hiusband is a sc-hool gardener, and I work-f or a s ma I rp r i-4a e
firmn running a warehouse.
6PRp 5/ 10/ 80
But-for both those jobs the,
there?. Caller
No. c The ' Award wage, it ati)
wage that keeps getting pub]
Prime ZMini ter
But:. the mhinimui wage is whaR
What.-schooldid your dauglhtt
Cailler She ent-eventuc-lly the 1z
college.
Prime Minister
What i s she doing?
CallertNothing. Prime M~ inrister
TW hat-age is* She?
Caller Seventeen.-
Prim~ e Minister
When did she leave school?,
Caller Last year.-
Prime Minister
She left at sixteen?.
-Call'er
' Yes., B ecause we were alkeac
is, and didn't go. through i
for a job.
Prime liinis . ter
But w. ho told her that she h~ 21
e woula be award wages, wouldln't
1l doesn'It add up to the average
ished no way.
Aou$ t 14,$ 150?
~ r go to?
~ st school -she was" at'/ aNewiarl
~ y told that i f she stayed until~
iniversity, she-had to -leave and apply
18 to Ileave?
6PRI 5/ 10/ 80 -22-
Caller Probably that was wrong to say that, but she was told that if she
stayed until she was I8 anid she wasn't going to go on through
university, it was better for her to try, and get a job then.
Pri'me Minister
Well,! would have thought that that was very bad advice.*-
Caller.
Would you.
Prime' Minister
Yes I would have. I think it is much better for somebody to be
at. a-school -a year lAorcjro& r to get particular* training to help to
geotba Tatexrabit.. o f.-education can sone-tirne& S-make-quite
a difference. We have introduced a number of special training
. progra: 1nmes. We have introduced a number, with the Statels'
co-operation school-to-work transition ptogrammes and a very
large number of people are being assisted by thoseprogrammes.
If you would like me to mak~ e some inquiries for your own daughter.
i1' vouid be very happy to do so, and to get In touch with you
about it within the next day or two to see what possibilities and
-openings there might be that would help, because I re-ally think
pursuing training, 1 pursuing * education, is much better, especially
-if. you-carinot get a job. ut I would be ' quite happy to try and
make some inquiries on behalf of your daughter to see if what is
available,. but if somtething is not available, I would really strongly
urge that she try and get into some form of trainin~ g which will
give-her additional qualifications which would help.
Adcock Could I suggest -perhaps, before sheila hangs up, she leaves her
name and address and perhaps phone number at the board and we will
pas3 this on to you at the end of the programmne.
Prime M4inister
All right.
Adcock Mr. Fr-aser, will
Prip-e Kinister
* I would be very happy to do that.
Adcock All right. Sheila, if you will do th3t, Fran%; will taJ~ e d : tails
you,, r n-zLe an~ d -2e(_ 6css ail weliI 1 s that on to Mr. ' rcaer.
Prine ~ Iinister c~ ~ ie i~ e cajr(% e iron?
6PR, 5/ 10/ 80
Adcock'--She's. talking to Frank now and giving her name and address,
so you can., follow that one up then. Thank you very much for
coming in. It has been a very good opportunity for you. to meet
the people," ahd I want t let listeners know that you will be on
again in the morning with John Fryer, so if people did try and
ring up and couldn't get through tonight, they might like to try
John Fryer pn-6PR -tomorrow morning
Prime Minister
Thank you very much. I have enjoyed talking normally Iwould
be just speaking to you from. Canberra.
Adcockr
" r~ Ii:
: J .: I
~ 1 r
: IPrime Minister
I have enjoyed speaking with some of
tonight. your listeners in addition
000---rouwI m I
23
~ That'~ s.
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