7 1V7
. PRESS OFFICE-TRANSCRIPT 23 NOVEMBER, 1-978
PRIME MINISTER INTERVIEWED BY VINCENT SMITH AND COLIN PARKS,
RADIO STATION 2UE
Tape begins as follows:
Vincent Smith
the IBM-Facom affair; the sacking of Senator Withers;
persisent unemployment; reverses of some aspects of the
Budget; difficulty in fulfilling the promise of a 2 percent
fall in interest rates; your personal popularity in the
polls hasn't been high and the polls have for a time indicated
a Labor win in an election were it held now. Do you accept
these as early and mid-time liabilities that will be forgotten
or will disappear as the term progresses.
Prime Minister
I think your record of events through the course of this
year also overlooked a number of other things: a very
remarked success in reducing inflation; interest rates
are coming down and it's worth noting, I think, that the
precise works I used in relation to interest rates were
that important interest rates " could", and that was the
word, " could", come down by as much as 2 percent. Now,
some interest rates have come down by nearly as much
as 2 percent. Not quite, by nearly as much.
Housing rates by the end of this week I expect will have
come down pretty generally by about 1 percent and that's,
one can say, not as much as one would have liked. But at
the same time, of very substantial benefit to home owners;
about $ 17 a month off the re-payments of an average loan
and $ 5,000 off the total period of the loan for an
average loan.
Continued success in getting inflation down: Australian
industry is starting to get on its feet get out and
compete in export markets. So, in politics I suppose there
are often rough patches and difficult circumstances. It would
seem to me that you've just put all the ' roughies' together
and had not paid attention to one or two other things.
Question I di d that because I wanted to ask you whether you looked
forward to a better 1979.
Prime Minister
I'm quite certain the Government's policies, economic policies,
are working and also quite certain that Australian industry
is becoming more competitive, that it will get a larger share
of our own markets and I look forward to the future 1979, the
1980' s and the decade of the 80' s with an enormous degree
of optimism. I believe that is shared by a number of the States
and the State Premiers and that's judging from the unanimous
view of all us at the last Loan Council a Meeting when major
developmental works were supported in a new way by the
Commonwealth and the States acting together. A gain, I think,
all pointing to an optimistic and prosperous period in the 1980' s.
/ 2
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Colin Parks
Could I look to January/ February of next year. Tony Street
says that unemployment will reach a new peak then. Will that
be the highest peak that unemployment will go in this term of
your Government's office. In other words, will unemployment
drop from January/ February next year, or could it in fact
rise the following year?
Prime Minister
I don't know whether that will be the highest peak or not.
A great deal depends upon what happens in wage claims and
we've got significant decisions before us at the moment.
But what I can say is that a number of industries are now
starting to employ more people. That's not uniform. There
are other areas where that is not the case. In the motor
industry, for example, one major manufacturer, by next March
or April as I understand it, will have put on about 2,000
people over the twelve months leading up to that. These are
the sorts of signs of optimism. It is my understanding also
that the BHP order book over the last six months is quite
significantly better than for a long while. Now that is for
domestic market domestic steel and that spreads out into
a lot of industries. We just have to face the facts of life.
There is only one way in which we can get this country really
where we would all want it and that's by having Australian
industry competitive; being able to sell in our own markets
profitably, and having people being able to sell overseas.
Colin Parks
Is one of these facts of life unemployment reaching half a
million early next year?
Prime Minister
I'm not going to put a figure on it. It depends upon a number
of factors: the fall in the ABS figures for the last month
was better than I think many people had thought a
fall of 17,000. The ABS series haven't been going for all that
long and therefore I don't read more into it that just state
the fact it fell 17,000 in one month. I noticed in a report
I think this morning, very substantial fall in unemployment
in Britian, 37,000, but in relation to the size of our economy
a fall of 17,000 in one month in Australia would be bigger than
the British fall. There are again seasonal factors that would
have to be taken into account to get a completely valid comparison.
Employment is obviously a matter that is one of continuing
concern to us, as it is to countries right around the world.
Much more could be done about it if there was a wider recognition
of the factors that led to unemployment. But it basically gets
back to the competitive basis of Australian industry,; the
capacity of people to provide jobs of a real kind that add to
the productive strength of this nation.
Question Ian Viner announced on your behalf this morning, Prime Minister,
that the Government would legislate to allow public servants
to opt out at 55 with reduced benefits. What practical effect
do you see that having on unemployment?
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Prime Minister
This is one of the measures that we have introduced at
this time because, clearly to the extent that people do that,
it will open up additional employment opportunities for
juniors, for young people, who might want to enter the
Commonwealth Public Service. That's quite specifically why we
chose this time to introduce this measure.
Colin Parks
How would you expect the unions to react, given that you are
going to also allow forced retirement where people can't be
put into new jobs?
Prime Minister
Well, management initiated; this is something that has been
in negotiation with the union movement for a very long while
and my understanding is that there is general agreement with
the package that if there is going to be the question of
voluntary retirement at the age of 55, you also need the
question of management initiated retirement under appropriate
circumstances. The purpose of that, of course, is the enable
the Public Service to operate as efficiently and as well as
possible.
Vincent Smith
You mentioned earlier that inflation has been coming down,
and I don't think anybody would deny the Government the credit
for bringing it down to the level it is at at the moment.
It hasn't moved, as measured by the CPI, for the last two
quarters and December isn't likely to show much of an improvement
either. At the same time you've got rising unemployment,
the capital inflow isn't coming as fast as you would like it
to come. How long can we wait poised in this very delicate
way, on the brink of recovery or disaster before you may decide
to change course?
Prime minister
We are not going to decide to change course because no other
course is possible. Capital inflow in the last few months,
compared to the same period last year, has demonstrated a very
marked turn around a very significant turn around indeed
and while you might say capital inflow is not as much as one
would like it is certainly very much greater than in the same
period last year, again reflecting the improvement in our
inflation rate compared with that in a number of overseas
countries. One of the things that's the hardest thing to
sometimes get across is that there is no easy solution to the
problem of unemployment. It is very easy for politicians
to say they are going to do things which some people will believe
will help unemployment. It's very easy for politicians to
promise to spend more money, to undertake more works and to
do it in an utterly irresponsible way while they themselves know
the relief, to the extent that there is any, will be very shortlived
and merely herald in a new and increased period of
inflation. 4
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Prime Minister ( continued)
I think that is a very callous view approach to
political life to offer a short-term palliative that
you know isn't going to succeed, that you know is going to
make the Australian economic circumstances worse; will lead
to more industries being in difficulty because of increased
inflation. I believe that my Government shows much much
more concern for the unemployed by being prepared to stay
with policies which we know over time will work.
-, Vincent Smith
Would you agree that perhaps you have in fact slightly changed
course by offering mild stimulation to the economy--the
simulation that is inherent in the big loan raisings authorised
to the States in that you are now chasing up that mild
stimulation psychologically by talking up the economy?
Prime Minister
It's not a question of talking up. It's a question about talking
about the facts of life and the capital inflow that has been
occuring over recent months; reduced rate of inflation, reduced
housing interest, rates and other interest rates coming down.
These are facts of life. Also, I think it is worth noting
that the infrastructure proposals that came to the point of
decision two or three weeks ago with all the Premiers in
unanimous agreement with the Commonwealth has resulted in two
years very close and detailed discussion between the Commonwealth
and the States. Nobody should have been surprised at that
decision. It's something which we agreed in Loan Councils about
two years ago to examine. Last June at the Loan Council we
agreed on the guidelines for the borrowings by the States
overseas and we immediately set officials to work to examine
the proposals being put forward by the States. I don't think
therefore you can point to that as being a change of tac., or
a change of policy. It's something that's been foreshadowed
over a long period and the knowledge that that was coming up
in the lift was certainly known and understood at the time
we prepared the last Budget.
Vincent Smith
But it must have a stimulatory effect?
Prime Minister
I think that's, again, the wrong way to look at it. It will
enable the States to borrow overseas, to strengthen the
infrastructure, the export capacity of Australia. In N. S. W
coal-loading facilities, new power projects, similar provisions
in Queensland and right around the Commonwealth major
infrastructure which will support industry support our
export capacity is going to be funded by this mechanism.
When people look to Government expenditure as a stimulus, they
generally are talking about something coming off the Budget,
being financed out of the Budget, and this isn't. It's
self-financing loans that the States raise and for which they
are responsible and they haven't asked us to be responsible
or to-guarantee it. They are prepared to do that on their
own account. The real stimulus that will come into this
Primei Minister ( continued)
economy, and any other that has been experiencing the
same problems, comes from lower inflation, lower interest
rates and people regaining confidence. You can't buy that
with a Government spending more money which is going to
increase a deficit. Ray Groom pointed out that a 1 percent
reduction in housing interest rates will save home buyers
$ 103 million a year. That's $ 130 million that they can spend
on other things. Now that's real benefit real worth and
that I agree is a stimulus. But that is the kind of stimulus
that we need because it is based in real results and not on
the Government printing more money or spending money
inadvisably.
Vincent Smith
Are you concerned that inflation, as measured by the CPI,
hasn't move downwards in the last quarter?
Prime Minister
Well, the overall rate has come down. I would have liked the
September Quarter to be down further but taking all our present
knowledge into account, the Treasury advised me that there is
no reason to withdraw from the Budget forecast of a inflation
rate running at an annualised rate of 5 percent by the middle
of next year the middle of 1979. There is no need to
withdraw from that forecast at all. Now that's their forecast
based on their models, their projections I've gctno reason
to doubt it's validity. Let me also say that there is much
dependent upon what is happening in the wage area and it's
worth noting I think that there was a recent survey of trade
unionists that showed quite plainly that in relation to wages
and hours of work and many other matters affecting employment,
the majority of trade unionists just do not agree with the
attitudes being expressed, quite irresponsibly, by the union
leaders.
Vincent Smith
And yet Mr. Hawke and the ACTU Executive yesterday decided
that they would pursue almost a policy of abandoning
indexation as a result of the Government's decision to water
down the powers of the PJT.
Prime Minister
Well we haven't watered down the powers of the PJT and
Mr. Hawke knows that full well. We've altered the nature of
the PJT to enable it to conduct a surveillence role far more
effectively. And we've, since our decision, announced an
examination in the food processing industry price structure
and that's something of intimate concern to all housewives
to all families. / 6
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Vincent Smith
That's hitting at the wage sweetheart deals done in that
industry.
Prime Minister
Well it's hitting at the price structure, not only-at the
wage sweetheart deals, but making sure that the pricing
arrangements have been adequate and we'll get a good deal
of information out of that which I hope would be useful.
Mr. Hawke knows very well that if the kind of wage claims
that could be inherent possible as a result of
that ACTU decision; he knows quite well that that will lead
to more unemployment than would otherwise be the case.
I think it is the grossest hypocricy of any person to claim
to be concerned for unemployment and at the same time
pursue policies which they know must lead to more
unemployment. It really is time Australia's trade union
leaders began to show a concern for those who are out of
jobs, not merely trying to get higher wages for those who
are in jobs. It's not only a Liberal Prime Minister's
statement, saying that. British Prime Minister, Jim Callaghan,
British Chancellor of the Exchequer, Dennis Healy, have said
in the strongest possible terms much stronger language than
I or John Howard use that if wage claims in Britian go up
too much that will damage the whole economy. It will lead
to more unemployment and they will either have to tax more
or cut their own expenditures as a very direct result of
just that. Frank Crean, when he was Labor Treasurer here,
said one man's wage increase is another man's job. Over the
last several years it is the total lack of responsibility
by a number of trade union leaders that have not doubt hampered,
slowed, delayed, the return to full competitiveness of
Australian industry. I think that's a tragedy because we are
all Australians and we ought to be able to act together in
these particular matters and not try to make political
capital out of what is a very serious human and social problem.
TALK-BACK
Question Mr. Fraser? How do you justify the ( inaudible) you made to
the American columnist, Mr. Buckley, that your Government
has brought inflation down while not taking it out on
working people. Look how you've butchered Medibank and how
you've raised all the taxes that just tell lies about
the taxes. How do you justify that statement that you made
to the Americans?
Prime Minister
Well I can make it very easily because in the 12 months to
June, for example, average earnings increased more than
the Consumer Price Index and that might be the simplest way
of showing that our policies haven'n taken it out on the
working people of Australia. In addition to that, I believe
Medibank, as we now have it, offers a universal health care
with special regard to lower income groups in the Australian
community of a simpler kind and the reaction that I have had
is it much better received and better accepted than any of
the earlier versions of Medibank. But Medibank is / 7
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Prime Minister ( continued)
universal cover for all Australians. That has been
maintained. We are seeking to provide that cover in the
best way we can and make sure that the cost of health
care, which has grown greatly in Australia and in many
other countries remain within our capacity to afford.
I think it is worth noting that even the Labor Opposition
now support the basic structure of Medibank as it is.
I think that does away with the claim that Medibank has
been dismantled. On the question of taxes. on indirect
taxes on whisky and cigarettes the taxes have been about
restored to the level which Mr. Hayden introduced in one
of his budgets and in addition to that and in spite of the
temporary tax surcharge, the person on average earnings with
a dependent wife and two children when family allowances
are taken into account, is paying about $ 13 a week less
than he would have been paying if Mr. Hayden's tax scales
were still operating. Now that $ 13 1 think is a very
significant benefit to the working people of Australia.
Question
What about the you promised people in their pay packets
in February. You bring out a budget and take a
what about all that?
Prime Minister
No. We haven't taken it away and I just made the point that
despite the temporary tax surcharge, which runs out at the
end of June, taxes are significantly lower, $ 13 a week for
somebody on average earnings with a wife and two children,
than they would have been under Mr. Hayden's tax scales.
Nobody can get away from that particular point and it's just
a plain statement of fact. When I first came into Government
the number of elderly people, the number of low-income who
were writing to me complaining about the injustice of
Mr. Hayden's tax scales was very great indeed and our reforms
removed the best part of 250,000 low-income people from
the need to pay any tax at all. Our family allowance reforms
gave very significant help to 300,000 low-income families
and nearly 1 million young people who got no help out of
the older system of family rebates, simply because their
families didn't have enough income to take advantage of
that rebate. Our reforms have shown a very real concern for
the less well-off people in the Australian community and
they will continue to do so.
Question I am and always have been a very moderate, middle-of-the
road Australianand in company with most people in this country
I voted for the Government. I perhaps expected too much
from a Liberal Government. I felt that
a lot quicker than it has been. But with the economy well
it still is in a rather disastrous state . bringing down
inflation is obviously the only way to really restore the
economy to any hope of a good life for all us and progress
for the country. But with the economy being the way it is
and the Exchequer being pretty well drained and we ' ye got to
borrow money overseas~ vvould it not be possible to say this ./ 8
8-
Question ( continued)
generation of youngsters coming up who are going on the dole
through mostly no fault of their own, who are not going to
know the joy of work they are going to get a reasonable
amount of money to live; they are not qoing to know the joy
of work and by the time they do get an opportunity to go into
work they will be too old to take trade courses or professional
courses because not all of them have got the facilities or
the background to get in would'it not be possible to
possibly put the Commonwealth more in debt by instituting
a compulsory training programme, through the C. E. S. to give
the kids ground training for employment, the responsibilities
of employment, etc. I know it is going to cost money, but
do you possibly worth-the decisive forthright thing which
could save a lot of kids from being no-hopers?
Prime Minister
I understand and appreciate your reason for that question.
Let me try and answer it this way. But first you made an
earlier comment that you hoped the economy would be put right
quicker but obviously inflation getting down is the only
way to get it right. I think a lot of us, including the
Government, hoped that it would be possible to make greater
progress more quickly. I believe that one of the things
that has held us back is the rate of increase in wages that
has gone on. But secondly, the other thing, was something
where many people in Australia and overseas in a sense, hoped
for too much, was in the revival of world trade. Now, world
trade has grown much less than we had hoped and that's partly
because inflation has been increasing in the United States
and increasing in a number of countries in Europe instead
of falling, as it has been falling in Australia. Therefore,
we have to look more to our own resources and less to any
lift through general world trade and getting a larger share
of growing world markets. The problem of young people is a
very real one. We've done a number of things to try and
help and we will continually review our programmes. But it
is not a question of a whole generation not knowing or' getting
the satisfaction from work because overwhelmingly in each age
group the greater number of people within a few months of
leaving school, do get a job. What we are left with, and what
our programmes are designed to help with, are those who don't
have a great deal of motivation the people whose education
might be less good and the, say 10-20% of each age group who
do have difficulty in getting a job. Now, to try and help
with this, we've got special training programmes designed,
orientated, to assist young people and in those training
programmes about 110,000 people are in training at any one
time. If these programmes can be improved, expanded, further
developed, if new initiatives can be undertaken within the
programmes they certainly will be. Indeed, within two or
three weeks time Tony Street will have a complete review of
the various training programmes before Cabinet and this has
happened before and there have been modifications as a result.
I can't predict what will come out of it. It's possible there
should-be modifications. Let's leave it like that. I don't
want to pre-empt it. The programmes do need review because
we spent, I think the best part of $ 200 million in all the
programmes this year and quite plainly we want to make sure
9-
Prime Minister ( continued)
that the help is getting to the maximum number of people,
young people, as possible.
Colin Parks
When would you expect the review to be announced?
Prime minister
Again, I said we are reviewing it in two to three weeks.
Let's not try and pre-empt what comes out of that.
So, we have shown concern and we want to demonstrate that.
There are youth job centres in the capital cities and I have
been in those centres and seen young kids coming in and
looking around to see what work is available and many of
them getting assistance through the centres. I don't really
believe that a compulsory programme would be something that
would work with great effect. Compulsion for national
defence is one thing but compulsion for civil work, civil
labour, is something that I believe many unions would have
very strong objections to and I'm not sure that it wouldn't
be in defiance of international labor organisations conventions
to which Australia has committed itself. If we can find
ways of getting to more people who need help, then certainly
we will follow that path.
Question One question. Have you yet read the report from the
Commission of Human Relations?
Prime Minister
I have studied some parts of it. Not all of it..
Question I could recommend Ann Deveson's book " Australians at Risk".
That would help you.
Prime Minister
Thank you very much.
Question Health costs. We say in Australia that health costs are
increasing at a great rate. Perhaps an example of this would
be, your comment would be quite acceptable recently I
took my daughter in for an operation into a hospital. There
were people involved filling out forms and 34 forms were
filled out prior to the little girl being put into the
operating theatre. Wouldn't this be a great expense on
the health costs?
10
Prime Minister
Well if that's happening to everyone who goes in for an
operation, it's certainly a great expense. If you would
like to give me the details of that and my office could
contact you, ring you back, I certainly would be
very happy to look at that particular case and find out
what happened because one of the things that we've doing
for the last 18 months is you know we share half the
costs of running State hospitals with State Governmentsand
we have been in negotiation with the states to try
and reduce costs, maintain health care, but make quite sure
that we get rid of unnecessary costs. Now, sometimes we
find circumstances in which States are very reluctant to
institute any changes which we think could indeed reduce
costs and we've got no doubt that, we need the agreement
of the States, but we've go no doubt that there is room for
further cost savings. In some areas of Australia, for example,
the occupancy of hospital beds is only about 60%. Well that
means we are keeping 40% of the beds, staffed and ready for
use but not being used. Now that sort of thing obviously
adds greatly to costs. If you could give the station your
phone number and name, I am not asking for it to come over
the air, I would be very happy to follow your particular
suggestion in relation to your own kid.
Question I am a seventy year-old pensioner, above means test pensioner
who receives no benefit because I have an income of over
a week. I have paid tax all my life and I am still paying
tax, including provisional tax. I pay full rates on my
unit, I pay full medical insurance. If you lower the insurance
rates, lower the rates that we are getting on our invested
money, how are we going to live?
Prime Minister
Is this money that you have invested with...
Question This is money I have invested, yes, in bonds. And how are
we going to live?
Prime Minister
The changes that were made to the pensions for people over
seventy were designed to make sure that the funds go to a
maximum extent, to those most in need and that's why the
means test was introduced for additional pension over seventy.
There is still a fairly significant base amount that of course
goes to every person. But, getting inflation down is very
important.
-, Question
It's all very well for you who is classified as above millionaire.
/ 11
11
Prime Minister
I'm not thinking of myself in these particular matters.
You've got many young couples who don't have a home; who
want to borrow money to buy a home. If they have to
pay 10% rate of interest to get that home it often puts
the home beyond their reach and it is very important that
the rate of interest get reduced. Now in this particular
regard I think that there is complete unanimity between
Neville Wran and myself because we have often spoken about
interest rates and their impact on Australian society.
Question I'm afraid there is going to be heck of a lot of invalid
votes, informal votes, because we just won't vote for
either Party.
Prime Minister
Getting inflation down is going to be a very real help to
you and to every Australian because one of the things
that was happening before is that you might have your money
invested at say 8% or 9% but if inflation was running away
at 16% or 17% or 18%, the value of that money was falling,
the value of your income from that money was also falling
very greatly. Now with inflation about half that, or less
than half that, obviously the value of your money is being
maintained and the value of your income you get is also
being maintained.
Question Would you come and live with us in you live in such a
beautiful world. . you get the very best of the world..
but you will both get a lot of informal votes because people
of the over-seventies are just fed up with the reaction of
both these unthinkable
Prime Minister
The other thing I think ought to be said is that about
250,000 low-income people, and many of them would have been
elderly people, are removed from the need to pay taxes because
of the tax changes that we introduced. If you are still paying
tax all that means is that there are many many people who are
worse off than yourself, who have been relieved of the need
to pay taxes as a result of the changes that we introduced.
Question Do you agree that the crime, violence and murder rate are
up high in hard-hearted societies where unemployment is
accepted and secondly, you get all your ideas from
Ayn Rand. / 12
12
Prime Minister
I don't get all my ideas from Ayn Rand. I know sometimes
my political enemies try to suggest that I do. I think
Ayn Rand takes her views much too far. There is one thing
that is attractive, and one that attracted me to her
books, apart from the way it was written, and that is that
she places great importance on individual people and
individual people being able to develop their talents.
Now that I think is important in our society to place
pre-eminent importance on people. At the same time, for those
who are disadvantaged amongst us, we need to show concern
and compassion and have policies that will act on that
concern and compassion. So, I hope that the fact that I have
read Ayn Rand doesn't brand me as embracing all of her
philosophy any more than the fact that I have read Karl Marx
can be construed as suggesting I embrace Karl Marx's particular
philosophy because I certainly don't.
I don't think unemployment is accepted and I think it is a
very real problem and I don't believe Australia is a hard-hearted
society. I think there is one factor in our society in relation
to crime which I do regard with the utmost seriousness and
I don't think' it's got much to do with unemployment and that
is the problem of drugs and drug addiction. And you will
have know from the success of the Narcotics people over recent
years of the enormous hauls involving many tens of millions
of dollars sometimes, of the extent to which drug peddlers
and salesmen trying to operate in the Australian market.
I regard that as the cruellest and harshest crime of all
because people who try to make profit out of drugs are doing
so it's not a crime of passion cold-bloodedly, calculatingly
and designably and in the process they can destroy the lives
of tens of thousands of people, young and old alike. I think
that the penalities that our society puts upon such people
should be very heavy, very great and I don't believe they
deserve much mercy at all. They do enormous damage to society.
They are the enemies of society and they certainly bring with
them increased crime.
Question Did you ever look at the societies of Japan and Sweden. They
are soft decent societies who don't accept unemployment like
we do and so on have a low crime rate.
Prime Minister
You'vye got many different facets in different countries but
I haven't understood that the Swedish crime rate was particularly
low. In a number of Scandanavian countries my understanding is,
I am not saying that divorce is a crime, but the break-up of
families and divorce I think has been very very great. We can
often write down Australia society. I believe this is one of
the best countries of the world and I think it is one of the
best countries of the world in which to bring up a family.
I have been to a number of countries. I haven't been to
Sweden, but I have been to Japan. We often, I think, knowing
our own faults, as we obviously have I think we often
depreciate Australia and knock Australia when we should
proclaim Australia's virtues and the very great benefits that
Australia does and can provide to its citizens. / 13
13
Question I would like to know why there is not a parent or
single-parent pension scheme for men as there is for
women.... . widower and against widow deserting husbands
and/ or wives with the children.
Prime Minister
We brought in at the end of last year a sole parent
pension which was meant to put men on exactly the same
position as women.
Question That didn't do the trick did it?
Prime Minister
Well it is meant to. If there is a deficiency in the
legislation I would like to know about it.
Question I want to clarify this for you. Being a man, having care
and control of the children, we get a benefit. We get the
same money as the women but we don't get a medical health
charge for one thing. Medical health charge, which you
must agree, is very important to us because we have to go
and plead-poor mouse to the doctors and we are getting the
same money as the women are getting.
Prime Minister
Let me look into that for you.
Question
We've tried with Minister for Health, and for Social Security...
Prime Minister
We did make a very significant advance when we did give sole
male parents the same benefits as women. Now if there are
some areas where women still get an additional benefit let
me look at it because I certainly believe in no discrimination
between men and women of any kind.
Question Good afternoon. It is Mel Hercam from the Sydney City
Mission. We have completed a twelve-month programme for
the training of unemployed young people in the Liverpool
Green Valley area. We've had a most successful programme.
We have had 93% or 90% of those young people now employed.
You and your Government have rejected the repetition of this
programme on the grounds of budgetary constraint. But what
concerns me more than anything on the fact that your Government
has decided to only fund Government-operated programmes and
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Question ( continued)
I would just like to have your comments on why you feel
that programmes operated by non-Government organisations,
particularly in low-income areas, does not receive this
approval. Prime Minister
Again, I would have to look into this because I know that
a number of the community youth support programmes was
it under that programme that you were operating?
Question
Yes, it was. We were originally funded under NEAT and..
Prime Minister
I do know of other programmes that are not run by Governments
that are funded under NEAT. I know of one run by some
people in some way attached to the Brotherhood of St. Lawrence
and that is not run by the Government. So I think that part
of it is not right, but let me look into it. The only
programme that I am aware of that has been continuing I'm
not saying there aren't others that I think wasn't funded
this year was one because the training costs were much much
higher than other programmes and other people who giving
a benefit to more young kids for the same value of money.
I don't know that that was your programme or another one.
Question
No. I think it's ours. But I think the costs that were worked
out by your Department were not correct.
Prime Minister
Well if there is a mistake in the costs we can certainly
look into that. Did you programme cost about $ 350,000
last year?
Question No, no.
Prime Minister
What did it cost, do you know?
Question $ 90,000
Prime Minister
Let me look into it and get a report on it for you because
the total sum that we are spending on the training programmes
this year is up very very substantially from last year. The
money hasn't been restricted. There are more people at any
one time in training than there were last year. It is now
running at about 110,000 at any one time. Right at this moment.
Prime Minister ( continued)
That's up very considerably. The sum being provided,
I think, look I don't want to held to ransom over the
figures, but I think they've gone from something like
a bit over $ 100 million, maybe 120 or 30, to approaching
$ 200 million.
Question I have to say this: that Mr. Street and Senator Carrick
and members of the State and Commonwealth Education Department,
have said our programme, which is the only one of its
kind operating in the whole of this country, is the most
successful programme that is operating. And yet I have a
letter from you, I have a letter from Mr. Street and from
Senator Carrick which says that it cannot be funded because
you are not funding private operated funds.
Prime Minister
Let me look into it for you, will you?
Question Maybe I can contact you again directly?
Prime Minister
Yes, certainly.
Question I wondered if you could tell me if there has been any
examination as to what extent the tariffs on imported inputs
could be lowered or eliminated. I realise there has to be
some sort of to the effect that revenue foregone and
increases in domestic manufacturing. The second thing I
wanted to ask you will the Government, plus business and
employer/ employee groups put or start an ongoing programme
for a manpower policy. Not something just in with the
end of the Government but an ongoing sort of body. The
third thing I would like to ask you is what would you like
to be seen as your major contribution to Australia after
you finish in political life?
Prime Minister
The tariffs can be lowered, but we do have tariffs to assis t
Australian industry and Australian employment. They are not
really there as a revenue measure and that is not in our
minds when tariffs are adjusted. There are independent
examinations of different tariffs from time to time and the
Government makes decisions on the basis of independent
reports coming from a body called the Industries Assistance
Commission. They sometimes recommend that tariffs should go
up for an industry. They quite often recommend that
tariffs should go down. Wie don't have to accept the recommendations.
We do act upon them. I believe that we do have a manpower policy
but there is no one thing that is a manpower policy. It's
a combination of a whole number of factors; of a number of
policies that operate to affect the demands for labor; and / 16
16
Prime Minister ( continued)
the circumstances and conditions in which people are employed.
The training programmes which have been mentioned on this programme
today are a part of that manpower policy. The consultations
which Tony Street conducts with employers and the peak union
councils in the National Labour Consultative Council that
involves many aspects of industrial relations and other
factors that affect both labour, trade union movements and
industry. Again, through the Department of Productivity there
are many tripartite groups management, labour and governmentall
working together to assist industry to make industry
competitive and therefore able to employ. There are many factors
that are involved in a manpower policy, and I would hope that
many of these things will be continuing ones, because I believe
they are good, and I don't believe they are involved in politics.
when I leave politics, what would I like to be remembered for?
I became Prime Minister I suppose at one of the most difficult
times in Australia's history, with very real economic difficulties
that were damaging the lives and livelihood of tens of
thousands of Australians. To get those major matters right,
to take Australia forward into the 1980' s with confidence,
confidence in ourselves asa people, united with common purposes,
and knowing quite well that Australia is a good country in which
to bring up a family. Also I would hope that my Government
is known for its concern for the disadvantaged, and for lower
income people -a government that does show concern.
In this last Budget which in many ways was a difficult budget
and a tough budget, there were very substantial increases in
funds to assist disadvantaged people. The programmes have been
enormously expanded over the last two or three years.
Very great sums have been provided for building homes for aged
people, and for elderly citizens clubs. Much much more remains
to be done, but I believe that Australia is a country in which
there is a real concern for the less well off in-our community
and I hope my Government is, and can in the future, contribute
to alleviating hardship where it is found in our midst.
Question I would like to speak about easing the means test on the
that you are allowed to have on a pension before you are
penalised, unless you are allowed to have $ 25 a week, then after
that you lose all your benefits. I think superannuation should
be exempt from that.
Vincent Smith
I think you pretty well covered that didn't you Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
I thought I had, whether you can ease those things depends upon
the total funds you have got for pensions and welfare and we have
tried to see that the extra funds that are available go to
those most in need, and that is often those without any
additional income at all. A married couple still get some
pension if their combined income plus pension goes up, I . think,
to $ 200 a week, or maybe a bit over that. The pension i's paid
at levels of income that aren't particularly low, and can be
much above the income that say a young couple might have, with
family obligations, just started out on life.
Vincent Smith
Perhaps I could round out the programme by just asking a quick
question of the Prime Minister. Parliament ends tomorrow,
doesn't resume until February would you rule out a Ministry
reshuffle, or a rearrangement in the intervening period?
Prime Minister
These matters aren't in contemplation.
Vincent Smith
Not at all.
Prime Minister
Not in contemplation.
Vincent Smith
Mr Fraser do you worry that the type of questions that you have
received in the last hour or so reflect a general level of
dissatisfaction? Prime Minister
No, I don't think so. There are a number of people obviously
who want more done in a number of areas, and there are a number
of questions concerning the pensions area. You go on different
programmes, and you seem to get different listening audiences,
I think, and different sorts of questions come through.
The purpose of talk-back programme is to enable people to express
their concerns, and I am quite certain that people who are
concerned are more likely to ring up than someone who is satisfied
in all respects.
ENDS