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M, t Good oing Mr. Prime Minister.
P. M. i Good morning Mr. Mirkovio.
M. s I am very happy that you have found time to say a few words for our
television. I know you are very occupied with the problem of the cyclone
which is disastrous.
P Oh yes, this is the worst natural disaster that has happened to
Australia. It is, in our terms, it is what happened to Skopje a few years
ago. 14. The people, let us say scientists, have found how to go to the moon
but still on earth many problems have to be solved.
P. M. I The disastemto which mankinjwas subject before any sciontific
discoveries were made are still there to beset mankind.
M. I We have first to solve problems here on earth.
Mr. Prime Minister, 205 years ago James cook came to Australia with the
Ship Endeavour' the Australian Prime Minister has not been to Europe for
years. Aftor 15 years you are one of the first Australian Prime
Ministers who have come to Europe. That means that you are somehow the
Australian ship to travel to Europe.
P. M. i You are suggesting that an Australian Prime Minister is now setting
out to discover Europe. You put it in a very romantic, poetic way. It is
true that no Australian Prime Minister has officially visited the Contient
of Europe for about 15 years but in that time most Australian Prime
Ministers visited England. The significance of my visit is that I am
visiting a very great number of countries in Europe.
M. i I saw in some English newspapers that the British were a little, how
to say, not very satisfied that the Australian Prime Minister first went
to Brussels and not to London, maybe because Brussels is now a very
important economic centre of Europe. Is it so
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P I It is symbolic and significant that I made my first call in Europe
in Brussels which is the capital of the European Economic Community. In
frevious years this would have been unthinkable. Any Australian Prime
Minister would have made his first visit to London and in fact probably
would not have visited Brussels at all. It is significant now of course
to us that Britain is part of the Community and accordingly you should
visit the capital of the Community first and so that is what I did.
M. i I see. Does it, for you as an Australian country whose econwny has
been blooming for many years, and with today's political situation in
Europe a little bit gloomy with inflation and unemployment and everything,
seem to you pessimistic.
P. M. a These two scourges of unemployment and inflation, which are afflicting
Wpstern Europe now and of course Northern America are also afflicting the
countries of that type of political or economic system in our region, for
0 instance Japan and Australia and New Zealand are also afflicted by unemployment
and inflation. In each case we are worse affected than for 40 years and that
is the case of unemployment; and this is the case of all these mixed
economies, those western style economies! Australia is being affected the
same way as those other countries and it is very important that I should
exchange views with the leaders of the Governments in those other countries
about how they are tackling these two problems which are affeoting us at the
one tivae and all of us together. -t
M. I Somebody told me that Australia lived for many years in isolation. I
do not know whether you like such a kind of# how do you say, of describing
the problem, may I say so
P. M. t It is a correct description, I suppose, in two ways. Until 25 years
ago, or les than 30 years ago, every country near Australia was ruled from
Europe. The United Statesruled the Philippines, France ruled Indo-China,
the Dutch ruled Indonesia, the British ruled Bnrmaq Indiap Pakistan and Sri
Lanka, and the French ruled several islands in the ' outh Pacific, and
Portugal still has two small oolonies, and then all the ports of China were
ruled by Japan or by European countries and the only countries in the whole
of our region which ruled themselves were Japan, which ruled herself 0./ 3
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completely, she was already a great power, and Thailand, although thee
were some limitations on the application of Thai laws to Europeans.
So that meant that in Australia the only other Governments which people
ever had to bear in mind wee Governoenta in Eurapel in the case of the
Philippines in Washington, and then there was Japan. Japan was the only
significant Asian country. All our neighbours we" ruled from Europe and
if Australians travelled from Australia to England they would call at
ports or airports which were ruled by Britain.
M. The situation is completely changed which evidently
P. M. s In less than 30 years the position has completely changed. Also
until much more recently in foreign affairs Australia followed the lead
given by Britain and iore recently by the United States.
M. i So this is the reason why your Government is very much engaged in
Asian affairs, may I say, to make this region more stable and to have
friendly relations with these countries. One would think you should have
donefor instance, recognized the People's Republic of China, withdrawn
your troops from Vietnam which, if I may say sot represented the kind of
important steps towards good friendship with Asian countries.
P I There was a great deal of leeway to be made up. It was neoessary
for Australia to have normal relations with all her neighbours and-my
Governmont has now established diplomatic relations with every country
in Asia, every country, and, at the same time, we have established
diplomatic relations with all the countries in Europe, with which we did
not have relations. There is only one country in Europe with which we do
not have diplomatic relations, and we have diplomatic relations with every
country in Asia. We are not categorizing nations as to those that are
favourable or unfavourable, the goodies, the badies, we want to have normal
diplomatic relations with every country with which we would have dealings.
M. Now normally comes the question of non-alignment. On Aginn soil may
I say, somehow, the roots of non-aligmaht are the deepest if you start from
Bandung Conference, the Conference in the role of India$ Indonesia and
other countries which are in that region. Your country and your Governent
express the wish to collaborate, to approach non-aligment. What does it
mean 7 What does it mean exactly What is your attitude towards non-.0/ 4
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alignment as a political and eoonomio movement# may I say
P. M. Australia is not a non-aligned country herself. There is an
alliance, there has been since the last war, between Australia, New
Zealand and the United States. The initials, the acronym ANZUS| but
very clearly the matters which concern all our neighbours, the whole of
our region are matters which are identified with the non-aligned movement.
The question of developing economies, colonialism, racism, the confrontation
between great powers in our region, all these are matters which are involved
in a non-aligned movement and accordingly if Australia is to have a proper
understanding of Australia, then Australia must be aware of the objectives,
the preocoupationsp the aspirations of the non-aligned countrieos.
S Accordingly, we would be very happy in Australia if we were to be accepted
as guests or observers at non--aligned meetings.
M. I If I understand you well does it specifically mean non-alignment
0 in your case, particularly in Asia, somehow to say " Go out big powers from
this region", somehow to leave the peoples of this region to arrange their
affairs by themselves.
P i We do not want any escalation of military installations or operations
in the Indian Ocean.
M. s This is @ at Aleast
P. M. i We do not want a confrontation to be promoted between the Soviet
Union and the United States in the Indian Ocean.
M. i So, one of the very important points of the non-aligned countries is
concerned with ran materials. This, may I say, redistribution of goods. Your
country is one of the biggest world exporters of certain very important
raw materials. Do you intend to join this movement for redistribution, may
I say so, or more equalitarian, may I say, prices on the world market with
non-aligned countries.
P. M. i We, of course, do export a very great variety of mineral and primary
products and we therefore sympathize with the situation of so many
developing countries which export some of those products but not the same
variety as we exportl and we are very much aware that they want to have
a stable market for their eporte and of course we want to have a stable
market fo our exports as well. It is completely unsatisfactory where
conditions can be changed without our being involved. The best thing of
course ip to have some arrangements between the producers and the consumers
and in the past the advantaes have bean too much with the consumers. Th4v
have been able to pick off the producers one by one and the consumers very
often have been themselves exporters of manufactured goods or the providers
of services and as rantfaoturers or as entrepreneurs they have had no
compunction to put up the price of their products or their services and
they have been very much more reluctant to adjust thhrices of the goods
upon which they depend on other countries I the primary products, the
mineral products. So our objective would be to get the producers and the
consumers making a prbper marketing agreement, trade agreement between them
for the space of some years. We have Joined, for instance, the International
Bauxite Agreement where ) hgoslavia and Australia each have considerable
izuterests. We have consulted concerning the formation of APEF, the
organization for exporters of iron ore but no agreement, no association
has yet been formed there.
M. i Concerning the Australian-Yugoslav relations, you were two years ago
in Yugoslavia, a few years ago
P. M. 3 3 years
M. v and you know Yugoslavia. Wen you mention Yugoslavia to an ordinary
Australian, you ] mow, the voter, what kind of country does it ( Yugoslavia)
represent
P. M. i The main thin the Australian think about when the word Yugoslavia
is mentioned is the considerable number of migrants, very sturdy migrants,
who have come from Yugoslavia, I think I would be correct in saying that
physically the mot powerful migrants who have come to Australia have come
from the Coast and the mountains of Yugoslavia. There are other people,
older people, who would remember that during the First World War and the
Second World War the heroism of the people of Yugoslavia, and at one time
of course Yugoslavia was the only country in the whole of Europe which was
fighting Hitler and Mussolini and Yugoslavia was the only ally that / 6
Australia had in the whole of Europe. Now that is over 30 years agog now, but
there would be people iho would remember and value this association and of
6ourse earlier still in 1914p Australians remember how staunch the Serbs
were.
M. m During the Second World War you were enlisted in the Air Force, you
were of this generation
P. M. i Yea, Flight Lieutenant Captain.
M. i Oh yes, important
P. M. 1 ( jokingly) Very important, so important to
M. a Concerning the politiCal and economical relations, what more could be
done for the development of Yugoslav Australian relations. What more could
be done
P. M. s Well this is the sort of thing that I want to be discussing when
I am in Yugoslavia. I am accompanied by the Head of the Australian Department
of Overseas Trade and by the Head of the Australian Department for minerals
and energy, and there are also of course very senior officials from our
Foreign Office, and 3o ong so these are matters which I will be very pleased
to disciss because your Prime Minister was in Australia 21 months ago so
we will pursue these matters.
M. a You think we could increase our trade in exporting more to Australia
because
P. M. i Well, I think this is quite likely but I do not know enough about
what you could supply or what we could supply. Now it is one of the advantages
of visiting a country, it is a visit by a Head of Government to another
country, everybody's mind are concentrated on the community of interests
between those two countries.
M. t To say on the very spot how the things could be done.
P. M. Yes, that is right. 0
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M. i Mr. Prime Minister, maybe I should ask you much a question. I know
you have won twice on elections but the Opposition is very strong still in
States, in the Senate too. They are somehow accusing you of driving too
leftp is it true that you are driving Australia apart
P. M. i Oh, we have made a very great rnumber of changes in Australia, that
is true. These changes would have caused no surprise in most countries.
Australia had the one Government for 23 years, an extraordinary long period.
We have the seame system of Government that one has, say, in West Germany,
or in Britain, or in the United States, and it is quite exceptional to
have a Prime Minister, or a President, or a Bundee Chancellor belonging
to the one party for 23 years. So, naturally, the changes had to be made and
they would surprise many people, But we have quite a good majority in the
House of Representatives, in the Senate; because of our particular method
of electing the Senate, it is evenly divided and this means that very often
bills do not get through the Senate because they can only be carried if there
is a majority. And, if there is a vote, an even vote, a tied vote, they are
not carried, so that is where the difficulty lies and there are also
You mentioned the States too, we have a federal system and federal systems
are very difficult to operate, as you know in Yugoslavia, ca people know
in the United btates or Canada or WVest Gernany. In Australia in particular
the States' Parliaments are not elected on a democratic system.
M. 1 As this interview is going to be on the air the day before your visit,
the Yugoslav TV audience, the man watching your interview, I am going to
S make a fault,-might say, here is an EnJsiohnan from the South, an Englishman
S from the outhern Hemisphere.
P. M. Oh well, Australia was founded by Englishmen, that is true, but
there... most Australians were born in Australia. Three quarters of the
people there were born int Australia, the other quarter would have migrated
to Australia since the last war from Britain and from most countries of
LEurope.
M. From Yugoslavia.
P. M. t Yes. In recent years moat of the migrants to Australia have come from
Italy and Malta and Yugoslavia and Greece increasingly. So anybody from / 8
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Yugoslavia would be able to find a great number of people with a common
baokground on common interests in Australia. But they would tell you
. that it is very easy to fit in in Australia; there is no segregation.
M. i About Australia, what is an Australian
P. M. t Ah well, we were founded from Britain but that is last century and
nowadays I would think that people from Yugoslavia or from Europe would
regard Australians more like Canadians or Americans, or at least as much
like Canadians and Americans as like British people and there is a very
great number of people from Europe now living in Australia, and the climate
is much warmer, it make. for a muah more informal style of life*
Mo So it makes somehow, how to say, a warmer hearted people.
P. M. t Yes, we are informal, friendly, relaxed people.
M. i I know that you have a lot of things to do. Thank you very much
Mr. Prime Minister, really you were very kind.
P. M. s I have enjoyed talking to you and I am looking forward to doing so
in your own country.
M. s Thank you very much.