AUSTRALIAN HIGH COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE
WELLINGTON
Outward Telegram to
RZUPX COUMW ( WsA/ AP0qM 2.2jV g .422aMe
UNCLASSIFIED 110 FOLLOWING IS UNOFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF JOINT PRIME MINISTERIAL
PRESS CONFERENCE HELD IN PARLIAMENT HOUSE, WELLINGTON, AFTERNOON
OF 22 JANUARY 1972.
BEGINS MR WHITLAM LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN GOOD ENOUGH
TO SUGGEST THAT I SHOULD ANNOUNCE THIS MATTER WHICH HIS CABINET
WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO DECIDE WHEN I VISITED THEM THIS MORNING*
I SUPPOSE THAT YOU HAD HEARD THAT MY GOVERNMENT HAD SOUGHT NEW
ZEALAND'S ASSISTANCE IN ESTABLISHING A SCHOOL DENTAL SERVICE
IN AUSTRALIA. THERE IS A START OF SUCH A SERVICE IN THE SMALLEST
AUSTRALIAN STATE AND THE THIRD SMALLEST BUT NOT IN ANY OF THE
OTHERS. YOU KNOW THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL
SYSTEM. THIS WOULD ORDINARILY BE A STATE RESPONSIBILITY, BUT
SINCE THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT WHICH HAS ACCEPTED THE RESPONSIBILITY
UP TILL NOW, IT'S FALLEN TO THE NEW COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENT TO DO
IT AND WE NATURALLY THOUGHT OF NEW ZEALAND'S EXPERIENCE EXTENDING I
BELIEVE OVER 50 YEARS. SO WE SAID IN THE WORDS OF PAUL, WILL YOU
COME OVER AND HELP US AND MR TIZARD PUT TO CABINET TODAY A PROPOSAL
WHICH WILL, WE BELIEVE, ENABLE US TO TAKE UP 50 PLACES IN MARCH,
ISN'T IT, AND ANOTHER 50 PLACES IN SEPTEMBER, AND THEN WE WOULD
HOPE IN DUE COURSE THAT YOUR MATRON INSPECTORS WILL COME TO
AUSTRALIA AND HELP TO ESTABLISH SIMILAR TRAINING FACILITIES THERE
TO SUPERINTEND THE OPERArION OF THE SERVICE IN TilE SCHOOLS.
WELL, I'D LIKE TO ACKNOWLE) GE PUBLICLY, AS I HAVE WARMLY IN
PRIVATE, THAT THIS HAS BEEN A MOST GENEROUS ACTION BY THE NEW
ZEALAND GOVERNMENT. IT'S A FIELf) WHERE NEW ZEALAND HAS HAD A
SOCIAL WELFARE SCHEME OF GREAT BENEFIT FOR MANY YEARS. AUSTRALIA
HAS NOT. SO YOU WERE WILLING To HELP US START. THE URGENCY OF
IT FLOWS OF COURSE FROM THE FACT THAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WILL BE
ENCOURAGED TO TAKE THIG CAREER ARE JUST GETTING THEIR EXAM
RESULTS FROM THE END OF THEIR SECONDARY EDUCATION AND WILL BE
DETERMINING WHAT THEY SHALL DO NEXT. SO MANY OF THEM WILL NOW BE
ABLE TO SERVE IN THIS NEW FIIœ LI).
Q. PRIME MINISTER, IN RESPECT OF THE 50 PLACES THAT ARE GOING
TO COME TO AUSTRALIA ( INAUDIBLE)
MR WHITLAM NO, THEY WILL BE AUSTRALIANS COMING TO NEW ZEALAND
TO OCCUPY THE SPARE PLACES WHICH NEW ZEALAND HAS CREATED FOR THEM.
WILL THIS BE AT NEW ZEALAND'S EXPENSE?
MR WHITLAM NO, NO, WE'LL BE QUITE WILLING TO PAY FOR THE WHOLE
LOT
MR KIRK WE HAVE AGREED) IN PRINCIPLE TO THE TRAINING OF THE
AUSTRALIANS HERE* THERE WILL BE SOME NEGOTIATIONS AT THE
OFFICIAL LEVEL TO SET THE TERMS OF WHICH IT HAS ACHIEVED* WE
ARE TOLD BY OUR ADVISERS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE ARE ABLE
TO MAKE PLACES AVAILABLE IS THAT THE WIDENED USE OF FLUORIDES
HAS IMPROVED DENTAL HEALTH TO THE POINT THAT THERE IS SOME
AVAILABLE ACCOMMODATION NOW INSID) E THE SERVICE SO THAT IT IS
ABLE TO BE UTILISED IN THIS WAY.
MR KIRK, COULD YOU TELL US THE NAME OF THE-SERVICE, WHAT
SCHOOLS WILL THEY BE USING, WHAT COURSES WILL THEY BE UNDERTAKINC4?
MR KIRK WELL,.-THEY'LL COME HERE TO, WELLINGTON. THE SCHOOL
DENTAL SERVICE ( UNDERLINE THREE) IS IT'S POPULAR DESIGNATION
THROUGHOUT NEW ZEALAND, AND IT HAS BEEN A SCHOOL THAT HAS BEEN
INVOLVED IN THE TRAINING OF YOUNG WOMEN, THOUGH THERE IS NO
SPECIFIC REASON WHY IT SHOULD BE EXCLUSIVELY HELD TO THEM* IT
MAY WELL BE THAT AUSTRALIA OR OURSELVES MAY WANT TO TRAIN YOUNG
MEN WHO CHOOSE TO TAKE UP THIS VOCATION. THERE IS NO STRICT
LIMITATION ON WOMEN ONLY. AND IT PROVID) ES DENTAL CARE FOR
PRE-SCHOOL AND PRIMARY SCHOOL CHILDREN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.
Qo THERE IS NO REASON FOR AUSTRALIA TO RECRUIT EXISTING TRAINED
DENTAL SERVICES TO COME TO AUSTRALIA.
MR KIRK NO, THEY WILL RECRUIT FROM THEIR OWN YOUNG PEOPLE AND
IT IS PROPOSED THAT THE TRAINEES COME HERE, AND WE WELCOME IT
FOR ANOTHER REASON BECAUSE IT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EMPLOY
SKILLED AND TRAINED NEW ZEALANDERS IN NEW ZEALAND RATHER THAN
LOSE THEM ABROAD WHERE TRAINING HAS TAKEN THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Q, WHAT IS THE DURATION OF THE COURSE?
MR KIRK I CAN'T TELL YOU THE FULL LENGTH OF THE COURSE, BUT THE
SECON4D INTAKE WILL COME IN WHEN IT HAS BEEN RUNNING TWO YEARS.
MR WHITLAM I THINK IT'S THAT. THE AUSTRALIANS HERE WILL KNOW,
AND WHAT THE NEW ZFEALANDER MIGHTN'T APPRECIATE, THE NEW AUSTRALIAN
GOVERNMENT IS WANTING TO CREATE A SUFFICIENT FRAMEWORK IN THE
LIFETIME OF THIS PARLIAMENT IN THIS COMING THREE YEARS
TO ENSURE THAT IN THE FOLLOWING PARLIAMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR
PRE-SCHOOL EDUCATION AND FOR-SOCIAL WORKERS AS WELL AS FOR
DENTAL THERAPISTS OR DENTAL NURSES AND YOUTH LEADERS: AND IN
AUSTRALIA THERE ARE JUST NOT AT PRESENT THE FACILITIES TO TRAIN
THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO WANT TO TAKE THESE CAREERS. THIS
WAS ONE WHERE YOU COULD HELP US.
Q-WHEN CAN WE EXPECT T1HAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAINED
HERE WILL BE ACTUALLY OPERATING IN AUSTRALIA?
MR WHITLAM I DON'T KNOW. THI. WILL BETTER COME FROM MR TIZARO,
THE NEW ZEALAND MINISTER FOR HEALTH, OR DR EVERINGIHAM, THE
AUSTRALIAN ONE, WHO IS SENDING -US EXCELLENT INFORMATION OVER
THIS WEEK. IT COULD BE POSSIBLE FOR THE FIRST OF THEM TO BE
TRAINING IN MARCH.
Q-I'D LIKE TO ASK MR KIRK WHETHER THIS INVOLES ANY
ALTERATION OF THE NEW ZEALAND COURSE, TO ACCOMMODATE THESE.
MR KIRK NO, THE MAINTENANCE OF THE BASIS OF TRAIN* ING, WILL BE
CONTINUED AND IT WILL BE TO THE SAME STANDARD AND THE SAME WORK*
Q. AND THE NUMBERS ACTUALLY UNDERGOING TRAINING WILL-NOT BE
EXPANDED BY THIS PROCESS?
MR KIRK NO. WE HAVE SOME AVAILABLE CAPACITY AND' IT MEANS THAT WE
CAN TAKE 50 IN THIS INTAKE AND 50 AGAIN IN SEPTEMBER. IF THERE
IS AN EXPANSION OF THE FACILITIES NECESSARY TO PROVIDE FOR A
GREATER NUMBER IF THIS WAS NEEDED, THAT ALSO CAN BE ARRANGED,
AND AT THE POINT WHERE WE ARRIVE WHERE THE FACILITIES ARE GREATER
THAN IS NEEDED THERE IS STILL BE POTENTIAL WITHIN THOSE FACILITIES
FOR SOME SIMJLAR TRAINING AS PART OF DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE WITH
OTHER COUNTRIES. IT'S NOT A MATTER OF ESTABLISHING FACILITIES
WHICH COULD BECOME REDUNDANT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LONGER
TERM USAGE.
Q* IS THIS SCHEME LIKELY TO BE THE FORERUNNER OF OTHER SCHEMES
WHICH COULD POSSIBLY BE ON A RECIPROCAL BASIS?
MR KIRK -IT COULD WELL BE WHERE THERE IS ADVANTAGE IN WORKING
TOGETHER -WE'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO DO IT.
PRIME MINISTER, CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT THE COM1MUNIQUE IN RESPECT
OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS TESTING. YOU'VE AGREED TO WORK TOGETHER
AND USE ALL APPROPRIATE MEANS. WOULD YOU BE PREPARED TO SAY
WHAT MEANS YOU WOULD CONSIDER APPROPRIATE?
MR WHITLAM NO, WE CERTAINLY DID DISCUSS MEANS, BUT QUITE
FRANKLY WE DON'T WANT TO GO INTO DETAILS OF THESE THINGS AT
THE MOMENT. I DON'T KNOW IF IN NEW ZEALAtnD THE ANSWER I's
ACCEPTABLE THAT USED TO BE ACCEPTAB3LE IN AUSTRALIA RECENTLY,
BUT THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION. WE ARE IN AUSTRALIA NOT
GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE FRENCH WILL GO AHEf7AD WITH ANY FURTHER
NUCLEAR TESTING REGARDLESS OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY. IN NOVEMBER AND OF THE PROCEEDINGS WHICH AUSTRALIA IS
GOING TO INTIATE IN THE WORLD COURT. YOU WILL REMEMBER THAT
AUSTRALIA HAS TAKEN THIS STEP OF DELIVERING4 A NOTE TO FRANCE
RAISING A LEGAL DISPUTE. WE ARE NOT AT THIS STAGE GOING TO
ASSUME THAT THE FRENCH WILL PRESS ON.
Q. DID YOU DISCUSS THE QUESTION OF AUSTRALIA'S CHALLENGE?
HAS NEW ZEALAND AGREED TO SUPPORT IT?
MR WHITLAM HERE AGAIN I THINK WE HAVE TO BE A LITTLE RETICENT
WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T MIND, BECAUSE THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THE
COURT PROCEEDINGS WHICH WOULD BE PLACED) IN DOUBT IF WE WERE
TO BROADCAST THE NATURE OF THE PROCEEDINGS OR THE BASIS OF THEM.
Q. COULD I ASK MR KIRK WHETHER NEW ZEALAND IS GOING TO GO ALONG
WITH AUSTRALIA FULLY ON THIS SUB11ISSION TO THE WORLD COURT?
MR KIRK WE DON'T FIND OURSELVES IN ANY POSITION SO FAR AS THE
APPROACH TO THE INTERN-ATION4AL COURT IS CONCERNED), AND INDEED
WE HAVE CONDUCTED SOME PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION OF WHAT IS
INVOLVED). FURTHERMORE WE HAVE GATHERED AN AMOUNT OF SCIENTIFIC
INFORMATION4 THAT WOULD BE INVALUABLE ON ANY SUC1H COURT ACTION,
AND I MIGHT ADD TO THAT SPECIFICALLY THAT, BYTr VIRTUE OF BEING
CLOSER TO THE TEST AREA THAN AUSTRALIA, HAVE THAT MUCH ADDED
STANDING TO THIS COMPLAINT, SO FAR AS FALLOUT FROM THE TESTS
IS CONCERNED. FOR OUR PART OF IT, WE HAVE CONSIDERED THE
APPROACH THAT AUSTRALIA HAS MADE TO THE INTERNATIONAL COURT.
WE'RE INTERESTED IN IT. WE HAVE UNDERTAKEN SOME LEGAL STUDIES
AND CERTAINLY WE'RE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF SUPPORTING
AUSTRALIA IN THAT RESPECT. THOUGH THAT IS NOT ALL WE'RE
EXAMINING. WE HAVE SIMILARLY CONSIDERED CONSULTATIONS WITH OTHER
COUNTRIES AND WE WILL CONTINUE OF COURSE WITH THAT. BUT WE ARE
NOT IN A POSITION OF ACCEPTING THAT FRANCE IS ENTRENCHED INTO
THE POINT THAT IT WILL NOT CEASE THE TESTING, BUT WE'RE BEING
PROVEN IN THAT SO FAR AS WE'RE ABLE, IF SUCH AN ENTRENCHMENT
WOULD DEVELOP, THAT WE WOULD STILL BE IN A POSITION TO GO ON
WITHOUT ANY GREAT LOSS OF* TIME.
SO THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT NEW ZEALAND WILL NOT GO ON
WITH AUSTRALIA TO THE WORLD COURT?
MR KIRK NO, WE'RE NOT EXAMINING IT FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW,
I THINK THAT THERE ARE NO GROUNDS FOR JUSTIFYING THAT QUESTION.
CAN I PUT IT ANOTHER WAY? YOU SAID A LITTLE WHILE AGO,
EFFECTIVE MEANS OF CHALLENGING THE TESTS STEMS THROUGH AN
INTERNATIONAL COURT FOR THE CHALLENGE TO BE EFFECTIVE.
MR KIRK NO, I SAID EFFECTIVE MEANS, ' AND I DIDN'T MEAN THAT
THIS WOULD BE SOME METHOD OF USING THE COURT, BUT AN EFFECT IVE
AVENUE THAT IS OPEN TO BRING ABOUT NOT ONLY FRENCH TESTING.,
BUT WE'RE CONCERNED TO BRING ABOUT THE* CESSATION OF ALL TESTING,
AND-SO ANY EFFECTIVE AVENUE WOULD CERTAINLY BE EXAMINED) BY US
AND WE'RE EXAMINING THE INTERNATIONAL COURT, THE PART THAT WE
CAN PLAY IN IT AND THE POSSIBILITY OF HOW WE COULD BE LINKED
WITH IT. AND WE SHOULD BE QUITE HAPPY TO CO-OPERATE IN EVERY WAY
WE CAN WITH ANY ACTION THAT ADVANCES THE OBJECT OF BRIN( GING
ABOUT THE CESSATION OF WEAPON4S TESTING.
MR KIRK, IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED, I THINK BY YOURSELF DURING
THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN, I'M SUBJECT TO CORRECTION ON THAT POINT,
THAT NEW ZEALAND COUL() SEND A SHIP WITH CABINET MINISTERS ABOARD
TO THE AREA OF MURORUA ATOLL. WAS THIS ONE OF THE EFFECTIVE
MEANS THAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH MR WHITLAM AND DID YOU ASK WHETHER
THERE WAS ANY POSSIBILITY OF AUSTRALIA PROVIDING REFUELLING
FACILITIES FOR SUCH A VENTURE?
MR KIRK NO. WE DISCUSSED THIS QUESTION AND IT IS STILL VERY
MUCH IN OUR MIND, BUT AS A LAST RESORT, AND I AM NOT PREPARED
AT THIS STAGE THAT WE SHOULD BE SO UNSUCCESSFUL AS TO GET TO
THE LAST RESORT BEFORE WE GET ANY MOVEMENT.
IS THAT WHEN YOU THOUGH THE IDEA UP?
MR KIRK OHl NO. WE ARE NOT ( INAUDIBLE) THE NEW ZEALAND
VIEW RELENTING IN ANY WAY. WE WANT THOSE TESTS TO CEASE. I
HOPE THAT FRANCE WILL REALISE WHAT DAMAGE IT IS DOING TO THE
REPUTATION OF FRANCE TO CONTINUE THE TESTS AND WILL CEASE THAT
PARTICULAR PROJECT, BUT I THINK IT'S PUTTING THE CAR BEFORE
THE HORSE TO START FIGHTING FROM THE LAST DITCH. WE WANT TO
START A BIT EARLIER THAN THAT.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY ACTION OR COMMUNICATION WHICH SUGGESTS
TO YOU POSITIVELY THAT FRANCE MAY IN FACT ACT UPON ITS PROPOSALS
TO GO AHEAD AND HOLD THE TESTS?
MR KIRK NO, AND I'M BOUND TO' SAY WE HAVE HAD NO RECENT OR
EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATIONS THAT IT WILL CONTINUE. SO AT THIS
STAGE IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION.
Q-IN THE EVENT OF IT BEING NECESSARY TO GO TO THE INTERNATIONAL
COURT OF JUSTIC AND THE APPEAL BE DONE TO GET AN INJUNCTION
TO RESTRAIN IT WHAT IS THE LAST RESORT AS AUSTRALIA **( ZINAUDIBLE)
MR WHITLAM WE SOUGHT OUT SEVERAL CONTINGENCIES, YES, BUT I
DON'T WANT TO STATE WHAT THEY ARE.
MR KIRK I MIGHT ADD TO THAT IF I COUL). WE'RE ATTRACTED TO THE
PROPOSITION OF GOING TO THE INTERNATIONAL C: OURT BECAUSE TO SMALL
COUNTRIES THE RULE OF LAW IS TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT AND IT OFFERS
ONE AVENUE OF ENDEAVOUR WHICH ALSO HIGHLIqHTS THE ATTACHMENT TO
THE RULE OF LAW IN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. AND SMALL NATIONS
THE WORLD OVER ARE TREMENDOUSLY DEPENDENT ON THE RULE OF LAW.
THIS HAS CONSIDERABLE ATTRACTION AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED*
WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OF YOUR IDEA LAST YEAR,
MR KIRK, OF YOUR HOLDIN~ G A CONFERENCE-OF ALL AFFECTED
COUNTRIES NOTABLY AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, THE ISLAND
TERRITORIES AND SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES?
MR KIRK YES, AS AN APPROACH, AND IT HAS NOT BEEN RULED OUT.
WAS THAT CANVASSED THOUGH IN YOUR TALKS WITH MR WIIITLAM?
MR KIRK OH YES.
WHAT'S YOUR POSITION ON THAT MR WHITLAM? DO YOU SUPPORT
THE CONCEPT OF HAVING A SOUTH PACIFIC CONFERENCE ON THE TESTS?
MR WHITLAM I THINK THIS IS QUITE AN APPROPRIATE METHOD. AS
I SAY, WE DON'T WANT TO CONCED THAT FRANCE WILL NOT FALL INTO
LINE WITH THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BY EVERY COUNTRY WITHIN
THOUSANDS OF MILES OF THE TESTS, OR THAT THE STEPS WHICH WE
HAVE IN MIND IN THE WORLD CO URT WOULDN'T SUCCEED IN PREVENTING;
FRANCE FROM GOING AHEAD WITH THEM IF SHE WANTED TO. WE DON'T
WANT TO ASSUME THAT FRANCE WILL CONTINUE TO DEFY WORLD OPINION
OR, IF IT CAME TO THAT, TO DISREGARD THE WORLD COURT.
Q9-WHAT MAKES YOU THIINK( THAT FRANCE MIGHT CHANGE ITS MIND NOW
AFTER IT HASN'T AFTER ALL THE PRESSURES OF THE PAST?
MR WHITLAMD WELL, FRANCE DID CHANGE HER MIND ONCE BEFORE ON
NUCLEAR TESTS. SHE DID CONDUCT THEM MORE THAN TEN YEARS AGO
IN THE SAHARA, AND THE AFRICAN NATIONS WHICH HAD BEEN HER
COLONIES SECURED SO MUCH SUPPORT IN THE UNITED NATIONS THAT
FRANCE DISCONTINUED IN THE SAHARA AND OF COURSE BROUGHT THEM TO
OUR HEMISPHERE. BUT THEY WERE DISCONTINUED THROUGH POLITICAL
ACTION IN THE SAHARA.
IN PRACTICAL TERMS DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE ANY HOPE OF
PERSUADING THEM NOT TO CONTINUE?
MR WHITLAM YES. THAT THERE WERE NOT TESTS IN 1971 I THINK
IT WAS... THERE IS QUITE A CHANCE AFTER ALL NOT EVERY
FRENCHMAN SUPPORTS THIS COURSE.
THE COMMUNIQUE REFERS TO '' FAILING, SUCH AN ASSURANCE'
BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE QUITE SPECIFIC ABOUT SIMPLY AN ASSURANCE
TO GIVE UP THE TESTS CINAUDIBLE).. PA; E 6, '' THE PRIME MINISTERS
HAVE DECLARED THE GOVERNMENT'S INTENTION, FAILINQ SUCH AN
ASSURANCE'". IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE QUITE CLEAR FROM THE WORDING
WHAT THE ASSURANCE SPECIFICALLY WAS THAT YOU SOUGHT.
MR WHITLAM THAT THEY WOULD NOT GO AHEAD.
THAT IS IN FACT THE ASSURANCE THAT YOU SEEK?
MR KIRK I THINK IF YOU GO TO THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THAT SECTION
TO GET THE MEANING OF THAT " THEY EMPHASISED THAT THEIR
OPPOSITION EXTENDED TO ALL FORMS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS TESTING BY
WHATEVER NATION AND REAFFIRMED THE OBJECTIVES OF A SUSPENSION
OF ALL SUCH TESTING AND THE CONCLUSION OF A COMPREHENSIVE TEST
BAN TREATY''. I THOUGHT ALSO IT MIGHT HAVE RELATED TO THE WORDS '' APPEALED
IN PARTICULAR TO FRANCE TO APPRECIATE THE SPECIAL DECREE"'.
WELL, IF THE ASSURANCE IS SIMPLY THE APPRECIATION OF FRANCE,
CONCEIVABLY WE COULD SAY, '' YES WE APPRECIATE THAT...''
MR WHITLAM WE WILL STILL GO AHEAD ( GARBILED CONVERSATION
INAUD IBLE)
Qe THE ASSURANCE IS SIMPLY TO STOP TESTS?
MR WHITLAM YES.
YOU REFER TO HAVING CONTINGENCY PLANS. BY
DO YOU MEAN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND OR AUSTRALIA?
MR WHITLAM AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND.
YOU'VE DISCUSSED CONTINGENCY PLANS AND AG4REED?
MR WHITLAM YES.
Q. YOU SAY YOU'VE GATHERED SOME SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION. CAN
YOU SAY WHEN YOU GATHERED THAT?
MR KIRK IT'S BEEN GATHERED OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS BECAUSE
THOUGH THE SOUTH PACIFIC THE D6S. I. R. HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN
MONITORING; THE GATHERING OF INFORMATION.
CAN YOU SAY WHAT THE CONCLUSIONS OF YOUR SCIENTIFIC
INVESTIGATIONS ARE?
MR KIRK I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO QUOTE YOU THE
DETAILS OF THAT BUT I AM TOLD THAT THE INFORMATION IS HELD IN
THE VOLUME OF ( INAUDIBLE) IN* RESPECT TO ( INAUDIBLE).
MR WHITLAM, I WONDER IF YOU COULD GIVE US SOME COMMENT ON
YOUR ATTITUDE TO THE FUTURE OF NEW REGIONAL ORGANISATIONS.
YOU REFERRED TO ASEAN. YOU DON'T MENTION THE FUTURE OF ASPAC
AND I WONDER IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT ON THE TWO GOVERNMENTS'
ATTITUDE TO ASSOCIATION WITH EITHER OF THOSE BODIES.
MR WHITLAM IT'S TRUE WE DO SAY QUITE AN AMOUNT HERE ABOUT OTHER
REGIONAL BODIES. WE DISCUSSED ALL OF THESE BODIES, BUT LET ME
GO OFF ON A COMMENT OF MY OWN. THE GREAT FAULT OF ASPAC NOW IS
THAT IT INCLUDES REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CHIANG KAI-SHEK REGIME
ON THE BASIS OF ITS CLAIM TO BE THE SOLE LEG.' AL GOVERNMENT OF
CHINA. CLEARLY SOME MEMBERS OF ASPAC WOULD N iOT ACCEPT THAT
CLAIM. JAPAN DOESN'T, NEITHER1 NEW ZEALAND NOR AUSTRALIA. IN
NO CIRCUMSTANCES ONE WOULD EXPECT THAT SOME CHANGES OF
MEMBERSHIP SHOULD TAKE PLACE OR SOME ADDITIONS TO MEMBERSHIP.
THE ADVANTAGE OF ASPAC TO GIVE THE POSITIVE ASPECT IS THAT
IT IS THE ONLY ORGANISATION WHICH HAS ( INAUDIBLE) BUT ASIAN
OR WEST PACIFIC MATTERS, AND IT'S THE ONLY ONE WHICH INCLUDES,
JAPAN AND NEW ZEALAND AND AUSTRALIA.
Q. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE CHINA AS AN ADDITION?
MR WHITLAM WELL TECHNICALLY, IN THE SENSE THAT CHIANG KAI-SHEK'S
GOVERNMENT CLAIMS TO BE THE GOVERNMENT OF CHINA, SOME PEOPLE
WOULD SAY THAT CHINA IS A MEMBER* I WOULD THINK THAT CHINA
SHOULD BE IN THE TERMS IN WHICH JAPAN AND NEW4 ZEALAND AND
AUSTRALIA RECOGNISE THE SITUATION NAMELY, THAT THE GOVERNMENT
IN PEKING IS THE SOLE LEGAL GOVERNMENT OF CHINA. BUT AFTER ALL
THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES TOO WHICH SHOULD BE INCLUDED. THE
IDEAL WOULD BE TO NOT ONLY INCLUDE JAPAN, AUSTRALIA AND NEW
ZEALAND IN ASEAN BUT THE WHOLE OF THAT EAST COAST OF ASIA..
I DON'T THINK ONE OUGHT TO ASSUME THAT THIS COULD BE A MILITARY
PACT. THE DAYS OF MILITARY PACTS ( INTERRUPTION) MUTUAL ASSISTANCETHE
WORDING THERE COVERS THIS SITUATION YOU RAISE ABOUT ASPAC IN
PART ICULAR.
MR WHITLAM CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE CHAPTER IN
THE COMMUNI1QUE ON TRAVEL. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE RESTRICTIONS
ON THE ENTRY OF NEW ZEALANDERS OF ASIAN AND PACIFIC ISLAND
ORIGIN WILL NOW BE LIFTED?
MR WHITLAM YES.
Q. IS THERE ANYTHING TO STOP SAY AN INFLUX OF PACIFIC ISLANDERS
INTO AUSTRALIA FROM NEW ZEALAND?
MR KIRK IT WILL DEPEND OF COURSE FIRST ON THEIR BEING NEW
ZEALANDERS* I THINK THAT THE DISTINCTION THAT OUGHT TO BE SEEN
IN THIS, AND ONE THAT REALLY TROUBLES US A GREAT DEAL IN THIS
COUNTRY, WAS ( INAUDIBLE), AND THE VOLUNTARY ACTION OF AUSTRALIA
ELIMINATING THID DISTINCTION IS THAT OUR CONCERN REVOLVED ABOUT
THE DISCRIMINATION OF ONE NEW ZEALANDER TO ANOTHER. IT'S
NOT A QUESTION OF HIS ORIGIN, THE FACT WAS HE WAS A NEW ZEALANDER,
AND A CHINESE WHO WAS NEW ZEALAND-BORN, A PACIFIC ISLANDER WHO WAS
NEW ZEALAND-BORN AND A NEW ZEALANDER IN EVERY ASPECT WOULD BE
TREATED DIFFERENTLY FROM EUROPEANS. NOW THAT DISTINCTION HAS
REMAINED SO THAT IF THEY ARE NEW ZEALAND CITIZENS THE RULE
APPLIES, BUT NOT IF THEY'RE NOT.
DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY HAVE TO BE NECESSARILY NEW ZEALAND
BORN NOR?
MR MIRK NO, THEY HAVE TO BE NEW ZEALAND CITIZENS. BUT, FOR
EXAMPLE ASIANS WHO ARE DUTCHMEN ABOUT TO BE NATURALISED IF ANY
OF THE DUTCH MIGR~ ANTS SEEK TO BECOME NEW ZEALANDERS. BUT THEY
HAVE To TAKE UP NEW ZEALAND CITIZENSHIP To QUALIFY, OR OBVIOUSLY
THEY ARE NOT A NEW ZEALANDER.
CAN I ASK MR WHITL-AM NOW IF THERE IS ANYTHINfj TO STOP THE
NUMBER OF PACIFIC ISLANDERS BECOMING NEW ZEALAND CITIZENS
AND GOING TO AUSTRALIA.
MR WHITLAM IF THEY ARE NEW ZEALAND CITIZi:_ NS, OF IF THEY'RE
CITIZENS OF COMMONWEALTH COUNTRIES WHO HAVE RESIDENT STATUS IN
NEW ZEALAND, THEN THEY CAN COME TO AUSTRALIA WITHOUT PASSPORTS
OR VISAS.
MR KIRK THEY DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY GREAT FEAR ON THAT SCORE.
THE POINT I THINK YOU OUGHT TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE ISLAND
POPULATION IN NEW ZEALAND, THAT IS PEOPLE WHO COME FROM THE
ISLAND COUNTRIES TO OUR COUNTRY, ARE NOW NUMBERING SOMEWHERE
ABOUT 36,000 AT PRESENT. MOST HAVE SET THEIR ROOTS DOWN AND
MADE THEIR HOMES HERE AND ARE UNLIKELY TO SHIFT, BECAUSE IT IS
NOT ONLY A QUESTION OF THEIR NEW ZEALAND CITIZENSHIP BUT THE
MATTERS OF POLENYSIAN AFFINITY HAVING TO DEFINE CULTURALLY.
I THINK FOR A START THERE ARE 37,000 PEOPLE IN THIS CATEGORY,
AND THE IDEA THAT THIS BECOMES SOME SORT OF ROUND-ABOUT
WAY OF MIGRATING TO AUSTRALIA ISN'T REALLY FAIR TREATMENT OF WHAT
YOU PROPOSE. THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA HAS SAID TO ALL NEW
ZEALAND'S CITIZENS THAT THEY STAND EQUAL, AND WE ARE VERY HAPPY
ABOUT THAT.
I'D LIKE TO REFER BRIEFLY TO THIS QUESTION, IF I MAY SIR,
OF REGIONAL ORGANISATIONS. MR WHITLAM, AT THE LUNCHEON TODAY
YOU GAVE AN ASSURANCE THAT AUSTRALIA WOULD STRIVE TO THE UTMOST
TO SEE THAT ALL CONSTRUCTIVE AND VALID ASSOCIATIONS THAT ARE
INHERITED BE PRESERVED AND REINFORCE). WOULD YOU REGARD
SEATO AS A CONSTRUCTIVE AND VALID ASSOCIATION?
MR WHITLAM WELL LET'S SEE HOW IT DEVEILOPS. I HAVE USED THE
WORD '' MORIBUND" ABOUT IT IN THE PAST, AND SINCE THEN PEKISTAN
HAS DRAWN OUT OF IT, OR GIVEN NOTICE THAT IT'S GOING TO.
MR KIRK, ON PAGE 3, SECOND LAST PARA( RAPH, IS A REFERENCE
TO " GREATER INVOLVEMENT BY PARLIAHENTARIANS IN THE SOUTH
PACIFIC AREA". THERE IS NO SPECIFIC MENTION OF THE PROPOSED
PACIFIC COUNCIL WHICH IS PART AND PARCEL OF YOUR ELECTION
MANIFESTO AND WHICH IS DESIGNED ALSO TO SET UP SOMETHING WHICH
WOUNDS A BIT LIKE THE PARLIAMENT OF EUROPE., PARLIAMENTARIANS
CONSULTING, MEETING REGULARLY.
MR KIRK THE PARLIAMENT OF EUROPE HAS NO FORCE IN THE SENSE
THAT THE NORDIC COUNCIL HAS, AND WHAT WE PROPOSE IS RELATED
TO THE NORDIC COUNCIL.
CAN YOU DISCUSS THE PROPOSED PACIFIC COUNCIL, OR DID YOU
REACH ANY AGREEMENT ON IT WITH MR WHITLAM?
MR KIRK WELL WHAT WE'VE DONE IS TO ACCEPT THAT IN THE
PACIFIC MATTERS ARE NOT SETTLED' BY OUR DECISIONS ALONE, BUT
SETTLED BY OTHERS, AND THE CONFERENCE HAD BEEN DEVELOPING AS
A FORUM OF POLITICAL DISCUSSION, AND WHAT WE WILL DO IS OBVIOUSLY
DISCUSS THE PROSPECTS OF THE PACIFIC COUNCIL INSIDE THE CONTEXT...
IF THE PACIFIC CONFERENCE IS CAPABLE OF DEVELOPING ADEQUATELY
THEN THAT'S THE COURSE WE'Ll. FOLLOW. BUT IT'S NOT JUST FOR US
ALONE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. THE ISLANO COUNTRIES ALSO HAVE
VIEWS ON THIS, AND ITrS A MATTER OF PUTTING IN IDEAS AND WORKING
TOGETHER FOR DEVELOPMENT. IT'S ESSENTIAL IN MY VIEW: THAT
THERE IS A POLITICAL FORUM WHERE POLITICAL TOPICS MAY BE FREELY
DISCUSSED, IT IS VITAL THAT PARLIAMENT SHOULD BE REPRESENTED
INTHAT FORUM, BECAUSE IN DEMOCRACY, AS WE'VE SEEN IN TWO
IMPORTANT COUNTRIES RECENTLY, GOVERNMENTS HAVE CHANGED, AND I
THINK IF PARLIAMENTS ARE REPRESENTED THEN THERE IS A CONTINUITY
OF THE KNOWLEDGE AND A CONTINUITY OF EXPERIENCE INSIDE THE
POLITICAL FORUM WHERE THESE DISCUSSIONS TAKE PLACE, SO THAT
THE DOMESTIC POLITICAL CHANGES IN A COUNTRY DON'T NECESSARILY
MEAN RADICAL CHANGES. IN THIS SORT OF FORUM, YOU CAN PRESERVE
SOME SORT OF CONTINUITY OF APPROACH. WHEN I FIRST SUGGESTED
THE CONCEPT OF A PACIFIC COUNCIL THERE WAS NO POLITICAL FORUM
FOR DISCUSSION AND INDEED EVEN BEFORE IN WHICH THE HEADS
OF STATE DISUCUSSED MATTERS OF CONCERN TO THE REGION AND THE
INDIVIDUAL STATES DID NOT EXIST, AND THE PROPOSITION WAS
PATTERNED ON THE NORDIC COUNCIL WHERE THEY WERE ABLE TO
RATIONALISE DEVELOPMENT, THOUGH FOR EXAMPLE THE UNIVERSITY
BENEFITTED CONSOLIDATED CENTRALISED LIBRARIES AND THINGS OF THIS
KIND.
I I
( CHANqE TO OTHER SIDE o: -rAPE)
WHAT-WE ARE CONCERNED IS DRAWING TOGETHER A BIT
CLOSER SO THAT WE CAN COORDINATE DEVELOPMENT AND SPEED) IT UP.,
COLD I ASK YOU WHAT YOU SEE AS AN INTERNATIONAL
REHABILITATION PROGRAMME IN INDO-CHINA?
MR KIRK WELL, WE ARE LIKE AUSTRALIA, EXCEPT THAT WHILE WE
TERMINATED MILITARY INVOLVEMENT IN THAT COUNTRY WE DIDN'T
WITHDRAW FROM THE INDO-CHINJA REG~ ION, AND CONSEQUENTLY, ON THE
DAY THAT WE ANNOUNCED THE WITHDRAWAL OF THE LAST OF OUR
MILITARY FORCES THERE, WE ALSO ANNOUNCED THAT WE WOULD DOUBLE
OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS OUR CONTRIBUTION FOR CIVILIAN
REHABILITATION AND RECONSTRUCTION., AND FURTHERMORE, BECAUSE WE
WANT TO SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HAVE AN EFFECTIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE
ROLE AND TO TRYAND DO WHAT WE CAIN TO HELP IN I1-S EFFECTIVE
REHABILITATION AND STANDING OF WORLD-WIDE, HAVE UNDERTAKEN TO
PUT A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF THE ASSISTANCE WE'VE GRANTED TO THE
UNITED NATIONS SO THAT IT WILL GO BACK THR~ OUGH THAT BODY INTO
INDO-CHINA. SO WE HAVE ACCEPTED IN FACT'THAT WE SHALL PAY EXTRA
AND AMOUNT FOR CIVILIAN RECONSTRUCTION IN THE INDO-CHINA AREA.
DOES THIS INCLUDE NORTH VIET-NAM?
MR KIRK INDO-CHINA INCLUDES, LAOS, CAMBODIA, SOUTH VIET-NAM
AND NORTH VIET-NAM.
DO YOU EXPECT SIR, THAT, LIKE AUSTRALIA YOU MAY HAVE
ULTIM1ATELY REPRESENTATION OF SOM~ E FORM IN HANOI?
MR KIRK NO, WE HAVEN'T CONSID) ERED) FRANKLY, FOR A COUNTRY
AS SMALL AS NEW ZEALAND WITH THE RESOURCES WE H4AVE WE'VE HAD TO
FOLLOW FAIRLY STRICT PRIORITIES WHERE WE CAN OPEN NEW POSTS
AND WE HAVEN'T ACCORDED A HIGH PRIORITY TO THIS, BECAUSE AT
THE MOMENT WE ARE INVOLVED IN CONSIDERING THE OPENING OF A POST
IN ( INAUDIBLE). THERE ARE LIMITATIONS ON RESOURCES WHICH HAVE
POSED TIGHT RESTRICTIONS.
ENDS. PLEASE NOTIFY MIR WOOLCOTTOR MR HOYLE OF RECEIPT OF THIS
TRANSCR IPT*
WE REGRET THE LACK OF CLARITY. OFFICIAL TEXT I. S EXPECTED
TO BE AVAILABLE FROM MR KIRK'S OFFICE APPROXIMATELY 1000 HOURS
LOCAL TIME 23 JANUARY. WE WILL CABLE THAT AS SOON AS
AVAILABLE U1NLESS YOU ADVI. SE OTHERWI-SE.
CCFM 110)
ENDS 230035LT
SHA