POLICY
INTERVIEW GIVEN BY THE PRIME MINISTER. MR.
GALLERY. CANBERRA 9TH MARCH, 196
MR. HOLT Gentlemen, my principle purpose in asking you to come
together with me this morning was that after such a lengthy statement
covering so much ground, I thought there would be a fair amount of
fill-in required. Some of you may feel that you wanted some
amplification at various points, so I didn't bring you together
to make another lmng speech, but to be available to clarify where
that seemed desirable. And so unless otherwise indicated, I think
what arises here is clarification from me.
Q. Mr. Caiwell, Sir, has asked for a referendum for conscripts
that are being sent to Viet Nam.
MR. HOLT: A referendum? I don't think Australia has found a
referendum a satisfactory way of resolving issues of this charaeter,
and the Government is fully conscious of the responsibility it has
exercised in coming to its decision. What I should paint out is
the significant difference between the situation which existed in
the wars in which a referendum was held and the disposition of our
fbrces an this occasion. At that time, the issue was whether a
man was to remain in the army, in effect, for the duration of the
conflict which, in the result, in both world wars, was spread over
a considerable number of years. In the case 4f the National
Servicemen, who will go abroad for service, most of them have the
best part of twelve months' training in Australia before being
posted abroad and their total period of service is two years,
so that those posted to, say, South Viet Nam, would not be likely
to be required to serve for lnnger than approximately twelve months
in that particular posting, by which, in most cases, they would
have reached the end of their required period of service.
Q. Doesn't the Defence Act give the Government power to extend
their period of service in certain circumstances?
MR. HOLT That is subject to correction. I think that is in the case
of defence emergency, isn't it? Or a declared defence emergency.
Q. Mr. Holt, in your opinion then, the test of public opinion
will be at the next election.
1A.
MR. HOLT ( Summing up) It is my view that a referendum
certainly would not be a satisfactory method of dealing with
a situation of this sort. Is the referendum to relate
solely to the situation in South Viet Nam? Would Mr. Calwell
see the discharge of our commitments in Malaysia in respect
of Indonesian confrontation in Malaysia or any action we
might find it necessary to take for the security of New
Guinea in the same light. I think Mr. Calwell's rather
hasty statement on this matter reflects the woolly-mindedness
of the Opposition generally and its evident division on the
issue in South Viet Nam and what should be done about it,
which I thought became clearly apparent as my statement
proceeded last night. It was quite obvious to me that there
were many members * f the Opposition discomfited by the
alacrity with which Mr. Calwell persisted in his view that
this is a civil war which is being fought in South Viet Nam,
ignoring the deeper significance and the wider ramifications
which I spelt out in some detail.
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' MR. HOLT I welcome that, Prank. I was about to say something
to the effect that while the issue is not one appropriate for
decision by referendum, the Government having accepted responsibility
for its decision, will at no distant point of time be required to
answer to the Australian electorate for its actions. I am
confident that faced with the situation in which we find
ourselves, the Australian public will continue to give us its
firm support. the engagement of servicemen for Viet Nam inescapable?
MR. HOLT We think so if we are to deal effectively with the total
defence situation. Australia has a variety of commitments and
we wish to so organise our affairs as to maintain the nation in the
necessary economic strength to back up our military and aid effort.
This has appeared to us to be the most effective way of going aqbout
the business. Ne-one could seriously argue that the inducements
to men of the desired ages are inadequate. I think we now can-claim
to have the highest paid army of men of lozer ranks anyhow
engaged anywhere in the world. The last time this matter came under
my notice, our men of the lower ranks were being paid more than their
opposite numbers in the army of the United States.
Q. Can you give us a break-up, Sir, of how this 4,500 men will be
made up?
MR. HOLT Well, I tried to get some detail on that for you. We
had this material, of course, before us. I may say we went over
this decision, or at least we had extensive discussions leading up
to it over a considerable period of time. This hasn't just happened
since, say, Vice-President' Humphrey was here. One of the earliest
items of business of the new Government was to consider what should
be done further in the defence field. Apart from that, there were
of course, reviews going on of one kind or another almost
continuously before the end of last year, and one of the factors
which influenced our decision was that a force smaller than this
would not hae enabled Australia to operate its own unified command
under Australian leadership and direction. If we had sent, for
example, another battalion, it wouldn't have been located with the
battalion corresponding to that one already there. The composition
of the American force, the need for logistic arrangements and for
specialist troops would have debarred an additional battalion to
be placed in another United States regiment, but by a decision to
send a force on the scale that we have, our troops are enabled to
cord-ict their ovm nampaignl as a unified Australian command, with
their own specialist services and with this special SAS force
accompanying them, so that it should be an extremely effective body
of men, and in our judgment the most effective military contribution
which Australia could make at this time. Now the question naturally e 9 / 3
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MR. HOLT ( CONTD.) arises, " Can wie make these troops available, and
at the same time--he-ready to meet our other commitments" and our
military advice is " Yes we can." Have in mind although the numbers
may seem large to some, they seem small to others. You have to
keep in mind what I said at the outset about the rotation process
and that as ore force moves out, we have to be in a position to move
in a force of equivalent strength. The battalion there will, as I
think I indicated yesterday, be rel. ieved in June. When the mem~ bers
of the proposed Task Force have completed their period of service,
then they too will be replaced,-: You could conceivably have a
situation if it became necessary to take some precautionary action,
say in New Guinea, you would turn to some of those who had been on
a tour of duty in South Viet Nam, some time after they had returned
to Australia, but it would be, in all probability, a very different
kind of situation that they would have to cope with up there.
Anyhow, this follows the recommendation of our own Service advisers.
It is their considered judgment that this was the most effective
military contribution that Australia could make and that it was
within our capacity to make it.
Q. Have you selected the commander of the new force yet?
MR. HOLT Just before I leave that point, the 4,500 is the overall
total and includes all services, not merely the iiitary service.
The command? Well, others will have to give you that answer...
Either Fraser or Alan Fairhall.
Q. Has he been selected yet?
MR. HOLT Wdell, he is not known to me anyhow.
Q. Sir, the 4,500 seems a bit high when you consider that only two
infantry battalions are going.
MR. HOLT : Well, there are all these others. Apart from the R. 11. A. F.
elements, there are the advisers who were formerly there, thaerree the
specialist services, signallers and people of that sort, artillery
elements. They are not just infantrymen. And this specialist
squadron. But this is what it totals up to. I am not, of course, a
military expert. Our Minister for Defence and our Service Ministers
can give you more detail, but I was, of course, a party to all the
discussions at which the Service Chiefs were present and concerned
with the strategic aspects and the relativity of the effort here to
what we were doing in other theatres. Remember that we are building
up our own forces all the time. One reason why our contribution
was on the limited scale which occurred at the outset was derived
from the need to use some of our trained Service personnel to give
a hand in the training of those coming into the army, but as we go
along, so we are building up our numbers and our strength. so 9 -/ 4
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Q. Bearing an the point that you have made, Sir, that this will
be a self-contained force, Mr. Fraser in the House last night said
that you might make an arrangement with the Americans for the
detention of Australian offenders. Would it be desirable to turn
Australians over to some other
MR. HOLT Well, I don't think we are in a position to give a final
reply on that episode. I would hope that we don't over-sensationalise
this thing. It is not an episode I confess to having
been very much concerned by my first reading of it and I think one
does have to take into consideration not only the seriousness of
the offence which in that kind of war in that type of area does
assume a major seriousness, but also the circumstances in which the
troops are operating there. The Commanding Officer has acknowledged
that he was in error in his understanding of the manner in which
punishment should be applied but my mind is easier on this matter
because I know that it is under the personal consideratio4 not
merely of the Minister, but of a very experienced and capable
Army leader in the person of Lieutenant-General Wihlton and I
hav-: sufficient confidence in his experience and judgment to
feel that this matter will be dealt with in the most appropriate
way from now on. I think that it is greatly to be regretted that
the episode should not only have occurred but the publicity whiich
understably attached to it could, I think, give a misleading picture
or a distorted picture to the Australian public of what has been
a magnificent force whili has brought great credit to Australia
and has been generally recognised as the most effective and
highly disciplined fighting unit to be found in South Viet Narn;
Q. Mr. Holt, you said that the Service Ministers can give us the
details after. Is there going to be some form reversal and they
will give them to us?
MR. HOLT I will advise my colleague, Mr. Fairhall . It is not my
purpose to take over the functions of the Minister for Defence.
I wanted to supply some additional informration if that were
necessary but if you do want to into the more technical aspeats
on the defence or service side, I think it would be appropriate
for Mr. Fairhall to have that discussion with you,
Q. Mr. Holt, with this increased force, will Australia have a
greater say in strategy, in general policy?
MR. HOLT I wouldn't ask really for a stronger Australian voice
than we possess at the present time. The United States and South
Vietnamese governments have been highly considerate of us in the
weight they have attached tq Australian opinions not only in
Service matters but in relation to the policies to be followed
generally. 1
Q. Sir, can you reconcile for us the apparent inconsistencies
betweenjthis decision and what you said before Mr. Healey's
arrival about Australia not being able to incur additional Defeno3--
commitments?
MR. HOLT I regard what we are now incurring as being manageable
within the balanced programme for the nation that I envisaged
at that time. Before we had our talks with Mr. Healey, it was not
clear what was to be proposed by him. There had been in quite
influential quarters in the United Kingdom proposals for a complete
withdrawal of the United Kingdom East of Suez and if this had
occurred, then I could foresee burdens resting on Australia which
we wou~ Ld have found difficult to meet while at the same time
pursuing a considerable programme of development. What I have
been putting publicly and to the representatives of other countries
is that, taking a not so very long view, it is in their own interests
that Australia sinuld continue to expand, to build its strength, its
capacity to supply a greater military contribution, a greater aid
contribution in the period ahead. However, I believe that what has
now been decided is in no sense inconsistent with the general view
I was holding. I am confident that we can sustain a defence effort
an the scale contemplated and at the same time press forward
vigorously with our development programme. The cloud over us, of
course, is this drought aspect, and it is a characteristic of
drought that nobody can tell how long it wivl l last or how widely
its influence will be spread. The remark-able thing, I think, for
most of us who are old enough to have remembered earlier periods of
drought is how well we have come through the circumstances of this
one with relatively little dislocation to the economy as a whole.
We may not yet have experienced the worst of it by any means, but
it does demonstrate how much more highly diversified the Australian
economy is and how much better able we are to contend with the
unfavourable conditions in one area of Australia because we have
strengthened our situation in anwther. Last year, ,, for example,
while we were getting a poor return from wheat crops in New South
Wales, they had a record wheat production in Australia. But I
was rather surprised at the tone taken by one or two of the
financial commentators. I thought if you studied the text closely
enough of what I said on the economic s'ide that we wi re giving
quite a number of indications of directions in whih the economy
required that assistanoe, then further assistance would be
forthcoming, housing being a case in point. Then there were the
references to export incentives, proposals for research and
development, other matters of that sort which were not unimportant. veso~ so / 6
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Q. Mr. Halt, any development in your plans to go to Viet
Nam?
MR. HOLT: Nw, Harold, I am keeping in my mind a particular period
as the best possibility, but I would prefer not to discuss that
at the present time. On the one hand, there is a quite crowded
programme leading up to Easter. The week of Easter we have the
Queen Mother here. The following week we have a gathering of the
Inter-Parliamentary Union.
Q. How long will you go after Easter, Sir?
MR. HOLIT The Session? I should think a run of about four weeks,
but it may need to be longer. I am hoping to avoid having to
leave it until the Session ends, It may be I have got to take up
portion of the Parliamentary time to do this, but I would see a
visit of something just under a fortnight as probably being about
necessary.
Q. You wouldn't fly in with the troops, would y~ u?
MR. HOLT Well my problem will be to get to a number of different
points because I certainly want to get to Borneo, and we have
troops stationed in various areas and I think it would be useful
to get to as many of these as I can. Then you find when it once
becomes known that you are liable to be in that general area, you
have requests then f rem governments wanting you to come and confer
with them on matters of interest. to them.
Q. This is mainly to see the troops, Sir?
MR. HOLT : Well, partly to inform my own mind better on the nature
of the terrain, the country and the general atmosphere. A
fairly experienced political observer or Ministerial observer
can pick up in a couple of days a good deal of information and
atmosphere. He gets a concentrated treatment; just as we have
people dropping in here for a couple of days and able to confer
directly with either heads of government or heads of services,
armed services. You do absorb a good deal of the local
atmosphere, the information that can be made available to you
on the spot which I think becomes more educative than anything
that you can get at a distance or secondhand.
Q. Sir, this 650M for the Farm Lean Fund. Is the Government
providing that?
MR. HOLT The general idea is that this would come from the SED
accounts but we have yet to discuss in all its detail with the
representatives of the tradin, banks. There have been some
preliminary talks; thereforgBA~ re is something indefinite at
this point of time about the way the machinery will operate,
we have our own view of what we would like to see happen. & 0*/ 7
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MR. HOILT ( Contd.) This is therefore subject to hearing the views the
banks may wish to put to us on details, but broadly what we are
looking to do is to have available, for borrowing purposes in the
long term and at reasonable rates of interest, funds which in the
first instance would be avai] Eble for meeting the problems arising
from drought, but this is not seen as merely a way of dealing
with drought. We are conscious that there is a need in the rural
community for finance of a long-term nature, the people knowing
the sort of commitment they have undertaken and the rates they have
to pay for their money. Over an amazing proportion of the
farming community, the overdraft system has operated indefinitely
in some cases. There have been outstanding loans on well-established
properties, probably running back through generation
it is theoretically callable " overdraft" and yet that particul1ar
hank has satisfied the particular needs of that family or that
establishment perhaps over fifty, sixty or more years. WNell, the
farmer likes to foel he knows just what his liabilities are, and
what is the leng-th and availability of his financial resources and
then he can plan more confidently for his future. This doesn't
mean that you seek to replace overnight the overdraft system which
has operated in this practical way for so long, but there will be
situations where a man would need the encouragement of an assured
long-term loan at a rate which he felt represented an economic one
having regard to all he might have to undertake before perhaps
he would subject himself to the anxieties and heartbreaks that some
of them have experienced over recent times.
Q. On a Viuqefsland note, are you intending to ' hold on to your
Bin~ gi Bay home and holiday there when you can?
MR. HOLT Holiday. Thanks for the thought. I am hanging on to
it for my retirement, untimely or otherwise.
Mr. Fitchett Sir Robert went twenty years without a holiday, Sir.
MR. HOLJT : I am not emulating his endurance feats, I assure yriu.
Q. I have a very ingenuous question, Mr. Prime Minister.
Could you tell us when you are going to debate the bill now
before Parliament to extend aid to private schools in Canberra?
MR. HOLT : I haven't consulted my colleague, the Leader of the House
on the conduct of the programme. I don't know that it will be
introduced at an early point of time. I have no wish to add to
or complicate the problems of the Opposition, but it is there on
the Notice Paper. Is it in the form of a bill or a statement?
Q. A statement. The Leader of the Opposition secured the
adjournment. S
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MR. BOLT Well this is where you had me foxed for a moment.
I am not saying " foxed" in any sinister sense. YLou had me
groping around as to just what legislation it was. I knew there
was a statement, and I gather that the Opposition if wie are
proposing to bring it on wishes to have some prior notice so
that there would be an opportunity for Caucus discussions.
Q. Mr. Prime Minister, on immigration. Last night, I think
you mentioned only Asiatics.
MR. BOLT Oh, no. There is no significance What I think I was
stressing was that these devel~ pments around the Asian area had
been amongst the factors which had influenced us to make a review
at this time but the rules and arrangements don't exclude other
non-Europeans than Asians. But in our experience, it is the
people fr'nm Asia who come here for one purpose or another who seem
to give rise to the problems with which we have to deal.
Q. Ihat I have particularly in mind, Sir, is that about a
year ago, Mr. Wilson told Dr. Viilliams of the letIndies that he
would try and get Sir Robert to give some thought to taking some
excess West Indian population.
MR. BOLT: Yes, well he hasn't put any such proposal to me, nor
am I aware of it having been put to Sir Robert. But we, of course,
have these arrangements which apply mainly in Asia for students
coming in here. I mentioned a figure, a total figure of more
than 12,000 as representing the number in Australia at the present
time, and not all of course, not more than a relatively small
proportion of those here are on Commonwealth or Colombo Plan
scholarships. A lot of them come here to do their primary and
secondary education.
Q. It would be true to say, then, that this wouldn't
include any members of the British Commonwealth as such....
MR. BOLT Oh, they are not excluded. If they come here under any
of the categories of eligibility, then the same rules would apply
in relation to them. But I said we were proposing to give rather
more flexibility in their administration to the Department of
Immigration. We want them to feel that if they run up against
what we would all regard as the more difficult cases, then they
dqn't have to regard themselves as being too tightly bound by the
rules. Could you give us a little more backgroun. to your speech
on Northern Development? Did it derive from a comprehensive
Government review of Northern Development policies or was it just
a continuation 0* 0 9* / 9
9-
MR. HOLT Well, we feel we have-been-te. Ling-yo.-a-grea t deal
on northerrv eev~ pinnt--but we are belted all the time by critics
who haven't bothered to put together the total of what we have
been doing or what we have encouraged to occur. I quoted a
figure last night which is an official figure. It comes from
the Department of National Development. If ybu look at the
various projects currently in train or fir early implementation,
you get a total expenditure on northern development from
governmental and private sources of the order of 32,600M. That's,
a lot of money for capital investment in a relatively under-!
populated area of Australia and must make a tremendous difference
to the situation in thoseareas. Vie are going ahead steadily with,
say, the beef roads programme and programmes such as the Brigalow
Scheme, ports and harbour facilities, railway development of.
this sort. We still make the approach from the Commonwealth,
and if we can be shown projects with an export potential that
have an economic viability about them, we are attracted to do
something to help that along. But what I was really trying ta
do was to get the rather more balanced and realistic view taken
of a good deal me~ re than developmental activity. Some may argue
it is not enough but it represents a very great increase on
anything we have ever attempted before. In Western Australia
at the moment, I would think you would find thdr resources
there pretty much at full stretch an our analysis, anyhow, of
the figures. I am not finding the Queensland Government in
complaining mood about what we are doing up there. On the
contrary.
Q. Can we expect some news about Jim Fraser's voting
rights today?
MR. HOLT I don't know whether you noticed that this was~ in the
concluding page of the speech which was roneoed off. It was
my expectation that Doug Anthony would announce at question
time that we had decided to give voting rights to the member
for the Australian Capital Territory. Viell, he knowing that it
would require a bill and the rule is that bills must first be
explained in the party room, deferred until today his announcement.
I came to it as I was reading thrwugh and baulked at the hurdle
and without mentioning the topic, said, " This is a matter
which my colleague will be raising tomorrow", subsequently
realising that everybody who had had a copy of the roneoed
speech would have this new break. ' Vhfether it was regarded as
of insufficient importance to attract the dailies in other parts
of the Commonwealth, I don't know, but it has been a big issue
with Jim Fraser. It might prove his undoing.
Mr. Alan Reid Thank you, Sir.