VISIT TO C. 1' DA XiD UTT' . K
LOS YIEL3S, U. S. A.
ADDfLS BY THE PRIME 7 ITiER, P รต R. HRPfOLD HOLT
TO THiE L03 . f TLELO 1TRLD AFFI2R CTJUICIL 51ST MAY, 1967.
It is a very great personal pleasure for Mrs. Holt and
myself to be here in Los Angeles. I don't supnose there is an
area of the United States where we have more close personal
friends than we do in this city and my problem usually is to
find some giod official reason for coming here and renewing my
acquaintance with them. Thank you for providing at least one
occasion which is a notable one even in the eyes of my own
compatriots, ecause the 7orld Atfairs Council has a prestie
which has reached out well eyond the shor s of your own country,
and I regard it as an honour to have the opportunity of talking
to this repr sentative and very distinguished gathering of citizens
from the * est Coast of the United States of America.
It is perharns not inannropriate that I meet you on the
day following your celebration bf 1, emorial Day. e have in
Australia a somewhat similar comnmemoration on what le call our
Anzac Day that is the day which really marks the emergence
of nationiood for my country when in 1 15, April 25, tie Australian
and Nev Zealand forces landed on the shores of lallipoli and there
forged, in their comradeship together, the word Anzac which has
come to mean so much emotionally to us over the years, and each
year, or the anniversary of that day, we hold what is the most
solemn non-religious ouservance on any day of the ye'ar in our
country, and so I can well appnreciate the feelings which have been
passing through the minds of aillions of citizens of this great
epuolic as you have commemorated American p'articioation in struggles
for freedom down through the years of your history and at a time
when so many of your young manood is involved in the conflict in
Vietnam and in pre. erving the peace in other parts of the world.
I have always an interest and almost a fascination in
this city of Los Angeles and, indeed, of California -enerally
because in the ministerial career to which Mr. iHodgkiss has so
kindly made mention, I was for seven years Iinister of Immigration
in my own country and we haive, as you probaoly know, a vast land
mass approximately t; he same dimension as the United itates of
America if you will allow me to exclude ' laska and Hawaii. But of
metropolitan United State3 we have approximately the same dimension,
but we haven't more than 190 000,000 people we are just pushing
up to 12,0Q, OO000 people, Yet there was a time not so very lonT
ago before . orld * r II when the population of Californiat and The
population of Australia was the same we both had 7,000,000 people
and I used to be told, as Minister of Immigrition, that you coul't
increase the population effectively by more than aoout 2Y/ o per
annum that the load on resources and the proulems, social and
others created would make this impracticable for you.
As I looked across the Pacific to what going on in
this State of Cqlifornia I could see a very much more rapid _ rowth
rate occurrin, there and of course, you have fir outstrippe us.
You are now, understan approaching your 20th million in this / 2
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country, while we are still moving towards our 12th, having
started tolether at 7 not so very long ago. But you won't mind
my saying That it is a rather different pro7osition to build
population when you have to draw on so many other nationalities,
and there are today fourteen nationalities substantially
represented in the Australian community most of whom have come
to us in the post-war years. When you do not have, as you are so
fortunate to have in this countr, the vast resources of capital
on which to draw in order to ouil the community, and fortunately
for California, fortunately for the United States and, I oelieve,
fortunately for the free world, California has been able to take
advantage of the movement of people from other ] arts of America
and the resources of capital which you have here, the more ready
assimilability of your fellow countrymen into the California
environment. But having said that and acknowledied it with appreciation
and deep gratification, I wouldn't want you to think that, because
we are a people of less than 12 millions striving as best we can
to increase by assisted migration from so many countries that we
are not a significant country in the scheme oi thin's and certainly
that we lack significance in an area of the world which is becoming
increasingly vital for you. Let me just give you a few facts to
support what I am putting to you.
In the first place, we rank amongst the first twelve
trading nations in the world. India is regarded very properly as
a very considerable country, it has 42 times our population, but
it has only twice the value of our gross national product.
Indonesia is re arded as a very considerable country in our area
of the world. It has a populition of more than 100 millions, more
than nine times the population of Australia. It has only one-third
of the value of gross national production of my country.
Je have a very special relationship with the United States
and with the United Kingdom which makes us a good friend and ally
and a helpful friend in particular situations. You mentioned, > x.
Hodkiss, the fact that I had recently been to four countries in
South-East Asia. One of these, Cambodia is a country which does
not enjoy diplomatic relations with the United 3tates. Those
relations were severed as you will know some time ago. But
Australia represents the United States' interests in Cambodia and
Australia represents C. mbodian interests in South Vietnam. So we
are able, in our own way, to serve a useful and helpful purpose
in preserving good relationships and in assisting the transactions
which necessarily must occur between one country and another.
I think I can fairly claim that there can be very few,
if any, Heads of Government that can be found around the world
today who would have been accepted in all of the four countries
which I have just visited. Some could have gone to one or two or
three of them but very few people who would, on the known policies
of those countries, and Cambodia would probbolv be the most difficult
of access, have been accepted in all four. Indeed there is a ban on
Western journalists in Cambodia but a plane load of pressmen
accompanied me on my journey an this ban was waived for that particular
visit. So Australia, not possessing any taint in the eyes of the
countries of . sia of having a colonial power nast, is accepted as a
friendly country. They know that we have hid to strugrle with the
problem of developing a vast continent, not all of it favoirable
in either its climate nor its terrain, but which has lent itself to
rich development thanks to the energy and courage of a pioneering
people. They have watched this and they welcome the guidance we
can jring to them. While it is fashionable in some intellectual
quarters to talk about the desirability of getting, to put it in / 3
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the crude terms they express, white faces off tue mainland of
Asia, all our experience and all the trends, or cattiinly
the more significant trends of contemporary history, are moving
in the other direction. -e are finding a desire t0 co-operate,
a desire to team together for mutually helpful purposes. I
have only to mention such recent institutions as ASPAC, the
Asian Development Bank, the sort of collaboration which occurs
in SEATO, the teamwork which was represented at the Summit
Conference at Manila as instances of the kind of thing I mean.
You have mentioned Mr. Chairman, that I shall be visiting the
United Kingdom to discuss British intentions regarding their
troop dispositions East of Suez, and I can assure you that,
knowing fully the mind of the Governments of Malaysia and
Singapore, they welcome our presence and the British military
presence on their territory as a factor contriouting to stability,
moderation and security in that area of the world. So you will gather
from these facts that this small country, measured in terms of
people but rich in potentil, with considerable agricultural
production ranking us amongst one of the great exporters of the
world, with fabulous mineral resources, the new discoveries of
which we are finding l. imost week by week with the kind of
influence we can exert through our friendship with your own
country, with ! reat Britain and the countries of the Commonwealth,
and the friendships we have develoned in Asia, Australia is able
to play a role which is not without significance for free people
and for the causes of freedom thro uhout the world today. .' e
haven't asked others to do the job for us.
It is true that we are linked with the United States in
the AIZUS Pact under which the United States, Australia and New
Zealand have agreed to come to the aid of each other in event of
aggression against one or the other, but we don't feel any sense
of eith: r condescension or inferiority in this because we have
played our own part in two . orld 7ars. It may interest some of
you of the younger generation who have perhaps not oeen made aware
of the fact, that Australia actually lost more man killed in the
First World Wir than did the United States. We were the first
alongside you in the struggle in Korea and we have been early with
you in the struggle in Vietnam, and there we are a great land
mass lying on your Pacific flank.
, e know that it would be against the security interests of
the United States ever to have Australia in unfriendly hands. For
our part, we are determined to do what we can to ensure that this
will not happen. Again it may interest you to know that not only
do we withhold from consumption for our own needs a higher percentage
of our gross national Product than any other country, with the
exception of Japan, an we need to do this for purposes of defence.
7e need to do it for the needs of our growing population.
You in California have had a very rapid rate of growth
and, I am sure, those who are in official positions here and have
to cope with the problems of rrowth know just what those stresses
can mean to a country, but taking the United States as a whole,
the annual growth rate in terms of population is not all that
fret. It is higher than in the United Kingdom. It is considerably
lower than it is in my own country and if you had to cope with t. 0
rate of population growth comparable with thit in Australia you
would find it necessary to construct an additional 500,000 homes
for your growing population with the schools the hospitals, the
trmsport ition systems, all the other capital facilities that a
growing population requires.
So we have on the one hand these pre.: sures on our resources / 4
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in order that we may grow is nation, we hive the obligation
which we cheerfully accepted to make a reasonaole contribution to the
joint defence efforts in the area and our proportion of gross
national product going into defence is greater than that of any
of the Western countries, with the exception of your own country and
of the United Kingdom. Je have not overlooked the obligations
we have in the field of civil aid outside our country, and again
it may interest you to oe told, seeing that we give our aid without
any strin s attached, no loans, all in the form of rrants or
technical assistance that per head of population, the civil
aid flowiny from Australia ranks third amongst the countries
of the world and is even higher than that pei head of the United
States or of the United Kingdom.
Now, let me say something about Vietnam in particular.
You mentioned the Middle East, Chairman. I don t claim to
be any considerable authority on that area of the world and
indeed, fr-nkly although I know it is occupying a reat deal
of attention and exercising a considerable amount of concern at
the present time, I don't myself see it developing as seriously
as some of the pundits would suggest. I don't oelieve for a
moment that any of the major powers want a Third iorld ' r and
it is my own celief, ner aps an optimistic one but it is a
jud-ment, that this flurry in the Middle East will settle down
in the course of time the ill-feeling uetween the Ara. ic
countries and Israel has been chronic ever since Israel has
struggled to establish a nation here under most difficult
circumstances and, for my part, I don't see it as becoming a
matter of glocal concern in the sense of global involvement,
but we have never from the word " go" been under nmy illusion or
delusion as to the . oriousness of the issue in Vietnam. Just
as we were the first to declare ourselves alongside you in Korea
when we saw this as a purposeful communist attempt to establish
domination over that area'of the world, and felt that if this
were allowed to go unchecked so this process would continue
down through the rest of South-East Asia and, indeed reach out
to other ' arts of Asia is well, so we hive seen the Vietnam
conflict in much the same terms from the outset.
This has been a much more complex and difficult business
than that which we faced with aritish and other Commonwealth forces
in what was then known as Mnalya, out there you had the challene
of communist guerrilla activity seeking to sauotage destroy and
subvert the community there, with a view to having finally communist
domination in that area of the world and it took us many long
years in a situation which ' as not nearly as complex as that we
Tace in Vietnam, where the numbers were very much smaller, but
we finally succeeded.
' hen I was over here last year I did make considerable
reference to the gains which had alrea y been achieved as a result
of the American contribution in South-East Asia and, in particular,
in Vietnam.
( Remainder of the transcript incomplete in parts).
There was a good deal of talk about a domino theory.....
argued the premise that, thanks to the American intervention and
the strength of American participation, we were seeing the domino
theory operate in reverse. ' e were seeing countries that were
formerly being threatened re-establish themselves social, economic
and political conditions, and we saw this in such countries as
Korea and Taiwan.
In the course of my own most recent journey I have had
an opportunity of seeing some of the. e things at first hand myself.
I have seen the improvement which has occurred in Malaysia since
we have overcome the communist threat there, and what h. s ooen
happening in Thailand. Thailand, with suostantial American
assistance has set out to ouild up its strength aginst the
communist threat in that country and I would only wish that
the press which gives this episoaic treatment day by day of
what is going on in Vietnam, would occasionally point to the
substantial achievements which have resulted from your participation
in the struggle there the strength thit you have given to other
countries the rebuilding and the strenpthening which has gone on
as a result of your participation and then, indeed, of the
importance of the conflict there than is readily apprehended
by some meubers of our r.: spective communities,
I want to say something in very particular terms aoout
one aspect of the Vietnam operation, because I have noticed with
some concern that the bombing policy which has been carried out
very thoroughly by the United States has come under question
in various quarters. It has oven put, on the one hind, that if
we were only to cease the bomoing the negotiations for peace
would commence. Jell I know that your President wants peace
and he hasn't spared himself in the search for peace.
I can assure you that my own country is hankering for
peace. . e have a vast country to develop. Quite apart from the
loss to Australian life and l0b, the damige that is done, we
can ill spare the resources that go into the military operations
there and if a just and enduring peace could je secured by
nevotiation we will support every endeivour to secure this result,
but I have followed this as closely as any human being can. The
messages we hive received from all the sources where these
attempts have been made there hAve jeen well-meaning efforts on
the part of the Secret-ry-jeneral of the United Nations, there
have been well-meaning efforts on the parts of a numer of
countries including Canada and Italy. But there is no substantial
reason of which I am aware to believe that Hanoi is prepared to
enter into negotiations and to use the pretext that this would
happen if only the bombing would cease is runnin against all
the evidence that comes to us. Every time there as oeen a
lull in the bombin, this has been seized on with alacrity in
order to build up the supplies and strength of the other side
to the damage and to the detriment of our own cause. Now on
this the American and the Australian positions are, I believe,
identical. WSEGTIO3S liD ARS. ERS
Q. Do you think an embargo would De effective ag. inst North Vietnam?
Mr. Holt I think in suostance as far as we are concerned, there
is a trade embargo. There are other countries, of course, supplying
goods but that would involve a major decision as to either the
attack on the shipping in Hai Pong or the mining of Hai Pong. I
know this is a m~ tter which is exercising the minds of your own
administration a good deal. I prefer, since the decision does not
lie in my hands, but virtually in the hands of your own administration,
not to express a view which might be an embarrassment to them but
they have to allow th't in taking this action they might involve
to a very much greater degree, not only China but Russia, who is,
of course one of the principal suppliers of North Vietnam. Je have
made it clear that it is not our purpose to destroy Vietnam nor to
subjugate their country, but we do intend to press on with action
which will prevent the aggression and infiltration proceeding from
North Vietnam.
7ould you care to make a forecast on how you think the war will
end? Y'hat are the various steps involved?
P. M. I wish I knew how the conflict would end. It would, I hope
proceed from a will to negotiate and, apart from oeing an optimist
by temperament, I don't put that beyond the ran; e of possibility / 6
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in the not-too-remote future. I have had some contact nd
experience with the communist mentality. je hive seen this in
the 3erlin airlift, in the Cuoan crisis, in many examples in
contemporry history both in the internal field and certainly
in some of the domestic issues which have arisen inside countries
such as my own, where there has some of our
industrial organisations, and you have found . hat where there
seemsto be a complete impasse a brick wall created between you
and the opposing side, that it some point they make up their
own mind that the -ame is just not worth will
decide themselves The time to call it a day and I believe that
particularly over recent weeks when the gooA weather his
persisted in North Vietnam, must make the leaders ponder and
ask themselves where are we going to pet to if we persist
with this? They can't win the war on tie ground. They can
only go ahead taking punishment indefinitely. They might look
to the time when as in Malaya as the thing was, they could
carry on guerrilla operations, but the country as a whole would
be able to carry on is : alaya carried on despite this, and with
the punishment which is being inflicted industrially on the
country and prospects for future economic progress, apart from
the dama e which might be inflicted on the forces engaged in
the field and so on, I feel that the time must come when the
say this is when we negotiate. Now, for us and for you and
you in narticular because you have the large share of the burden
on this matter, it is not merely a matter of negotiation in order
to stop the agression, the fihting. There must be a settlement
which will stick. There must oe a just and enduring settlement
which will enable the people of South Vietnam to decide their
own destiny in their own way, and it is not to be peace at any
price much as we all lon Tor peace, jut when that time comes,
we will all Oe better equi-ped to know just how we should conduct
our negotiations.
0 .' ould you co; iment on the position of Ho Chi Min in his own
country? Is he a -eorge hington or a Benedict Arnold?
P. M. I think that that largely depends whether you are a communist
supporter or a supporter of a different system of government.
There is no doubt that he has enjoyed a strong support from those
who have been politic'lly inclined md accent the communist and
socialist way of life. In North Vietnam, as indeed in South Vietnam
and through much of South-East Asia, the greater part of the
population live off the land and do not look very far oeyond their
own particular area of cultivation and they have been accustomed
through the centuries to having one particular " ar Lord or one
dominant regime, usually extoring from them what can be extracted
and so there isn't the same individual and national conscience
thit we experience in c untries such as our own which have a
democratic libertarian tradition but I have seen the evidence
of an opposition building up to the Ho Chi Min regime. The
intelligence that we get out of North Vietnam is not very
considerable, but I would think that he still does exercise a
very considerable influence over his own administration and
over his country. It would be difficult to appreciate the effort
put into reconstruction after the damage that has occurred there
if this were not so. He is now of course, a very old man in terms
of normal public life. It may be that his successor will be no less
determined to push on the sort of policies that he has pursued.
I think it is fair to say that although there is a reat deal of
Chinese communist influence in North Vietnam the NIorth Vietnamese
don't want the Chinese there any more than the South Vietnamese . ant
the Chinese in South Vietnam, and if a negotiation could be conducted,
I think that a line of division and a course could oe established
whether it involves a movement as it did previously with people from
one area to another, in order thit those who wanted to live one
kind of life could go to a country offering that others who / 7
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v-inted the sort of life -:.-hich we hom ill develop in South
Vietrnm c iuld move there, but I don t think any o us ca-n
cla-im to be a-uthorities is to the thinking, or the state of public
opinion in 1' jth Vie tnaim at this time.