PRIME MINISTER
"~ Japan Embargo 9.3Opm Osaka time***
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MID
INTERVIEW WITH NHK TELEVISION JAPAN, OSAKA
NOVEMBER 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
J: French papers have reported that France is planning another nuclear test
in a few days are you planning any specific measures to protest against
France this time?
PM: We have just last week secured the most condemnatory resolution in a
large multilateral body that's the Commonwealth Heads of Government
meeting where Australia proposed that France be condemned for its
position, for its decision to resume testing. And of course the word in
international diplomacy the word condemned is a very judgmental and
harsh word. So, that was at the Commonwealth Heads of Government.
At the United Nations, we have also secured a very strong resolution
against the French, and we will continue to proselytise the cause of liberty
of people in the Pacific for the way of life that they wish, and the views
that they are entitled to call their own, without this sort of heavy-handed
approach from the French.
J: Last time you recalled your ambassador from France. This time, what do
you do?
PM: Well, we have made the protest clear, and I think that President Chirac
has said himself on American television that Australia had been the
source of greatest pressure on France. You might have noticed in the
weekend press that President Chirac took umbrage at a number of
European countries, similarly expressing the same view as Australia, and
decided he would cancel one or two meetings with them. So, the
pressure is continuing to come on them, and I think that's more effective
now than any bilateral action, or unilateral action.
J: It's a related question you have proposed to Prime Minister Murayama to
set up a joint taskforce to deal with nuclear testing. Would you elaborate
on what Australia and Japan can do in this taskforce?
PM: Not on nuclear testing but to rid the world of nuclear weapons. It's going
way beyond the testing point. There are 50,000 nuclear weapons around
the arsenals of the major powers. What Australia wants to do is get them
down to be rid of them. To be rid of nuclear weapons. You might know
that Australia played a leading role in the Chemical Weapons Convention.
Now, in that Convention we removed one whole category of weapons, so
if we can do it for one whole category with chemical, we should be able to
do it conceivably with one whole category with nuclear. And of course,
the verification procedures on chemical weapons is, I think, far more
difficult than verification on nuclear. So, we are now putting together a
taskforce to look at ways where we may promote international agreement
to actually cut the stockpiles. Now, this comes as well as Australia's
involvement in the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty we will be playing, I
hope, there a leading role, too which is a comprehensive ban on further
testing, by everybody. We are also supporting the cut-off convention,
which is the cutting off of further production of fissile material. So, there
are three matters there is a cutoff convention on stopping the production
of fissile material, there is a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, which is
aimed at stopping comprehensively further testing, and then there is
Australia's own initiative to actually be rid of nuclear weapons to actually
take the stockpiles down. And it was that last subject that I spoke to
Prime Minister Murayama about asking for Japan's support in this.
J: With regard to APEC what is your evaluation of the outcome of this
APEC Summit in. Osaka, particularly with respect to the issue of
comprehensiveness?
PM: I think the overall result was outstanding. The great clarity of the Bogor
Declaration, which President Soeharto provided his stewardship
provided has been, I think, built upon under the stewardship of Prime
Minister Murayama. And I think that the outcome in Osaka yesterday is
something that does adequate justice to the Bogor Declaration, and the
leadership of President Soeharto in it. One of the stumbling issues over
these recent weeks was the question of comprehensiveness, but what the
draft declaration and the agenda showed the liberalisation agenda
made clear is that everything is in all categories of goods and -services
-are in the mix to free trade by 2010 for developed countries, that
includes of course Japan and Australia, and the developing countries by
2020. So, what we said all of us, I think we don't mind...] mean, what is
unique about APEC is that it has specified the end points 2010 and
2020. In the Uruguay Round there were no end points it was a as if
[ they said) " yes. liberalisation is a good thing, but maybe not too good,
and we will just give away as much as we have to, and no more". Here,
there is a much more generous, and a much more wise approach. At
Bogor, we decided the end points. Once you have got the end point
decided, and you have got commitments around the end point which is
free trade by 2010 and 2020 the pace which individual countries then
adopt for the lberalisation of particular sectors is a matter for them. And
so this is why we have used this device called concerted liberalisation
each country does its liberalising, but we bring it together as a concerted
policy. Or we have liberalisation in concert. Now, this is both, I think,
effective and mature, and the test you could see some of it yesterday
was a very big liberalisation package announced by Japan, by Indonesia
and by China.
In other words, if people would make the big commitment to free and open
trade by a certain date, you know, give them the credit of knowing that
they will find their own way of getting there, and yesterday proved that
they will. Which is a far better approach than the sort of mechanistic
legalism of the Uruguay Round, or the
J, Do you think that Japan has been able to achieve its role as a host nation
to the conference?
PM: Yes. I think that all of the imperatives of leadership which I believe
Japan had to show on this occasion it did show. I think Prime Minister
Murayama's work, Minister Hashimoto's work, Minister Kono, and their
officials Mr Kono, and Mr Seki that group. And the fact that we had the
Ministry of Trade and Industry and the Gaimusho working together which
I must say is a rarity for Japan showed how effective they can be
working together. So, I think and yet, let me say another thing, not only
was leadership shown, but the fact that in an unfortunate way President
Clinton couldn't come, it made very clear that Japan was able to do this
without the validation of the United States. In other words, Japan stood
on its own feet, and did this without the United States holding its hand.
And that, I think, is a good thing too, because as you know, Australia is a
great supporter of Japan's, and we're a great supporter of Japan taking a
full place in the Security Council. But none of us would have wanted to
vote for a country that, having the test of international leadership around
something so mammoth as this APEC agenda, if Japan had either shirked
the test or failed the test, it would have given not just Australia, but many
other countries second doubts about its leadership capacity. I think those
doubts have been dispelled. For my part, I have always believed
because Prime Minister Murayama sat next to me at Bogor I had an idea
about his own thoughts about all of this, and I always believed he would
rise to the challenge. And I think Ministers Hashimoto and Kono
understand how absolutely pivotal and key this was to Japan setting up a
proper East Asian trading structure, one that allows China to come out
with the world economy and be received in a structure which has got
rules, and which has got policy, that allows a proper resourcing of East
Asia, at the same time, keeps the United States commercially engaged in
the region. I think those two Ministers particularly understood those
imperatives, and I think this must have been of material assistance to
Prime Minister Murayama.
J: With regarding of EAEC. there is a debate about Dr Mahathirts plan to
create the EAEC....
PM: Can I interrupt you? Look, it's an old debate. There's one premier
organisation in the Asia Pacific now it's APEC. I mean, the bonhomie,
the commitment, the goodwill that has come around APEC. I mean, look,
since our first meeting in Seattle, you have got much greater movement of
people between Korea and Japan with President Kim and Prime Minister
Murayama, you have just had recently President Jiang Zemin visiting
Seoul, the movement of people and the understanding and goodwill has
come from one body, and that's APEC. Because at the same time, the
strategic guarantor of all this the United States is involved, too. In any
East Asian body, the United States isn't there. Now, this debate. . you
could have a debate about this at the time of Seattle. You could even
keep the remnants of it going at the time of Bogor. But now, there is one
and one body only, and that's APEC. Now of course, in the region in our
region, that is East Asia, South East Asia you still have people meeting
and talking, and our trade ministers meet and talk without some of our
Pacific Rim partners being present on all occasions, but that is not the
institutional structure that we are speaking of. The institutional structure
is around APEC.
J: Mr Keating, you are well known as Mr Deregulation how do you plan to
pull the Australian economy back Into shape?
PM: Well, It's already in pretty good shape, now. After ten years of hard work
we are now in our longest phase of growth since the Second World War.
This quarter will be seventeen quarters of consecutive growth, so this is a
record for us. This year, the economy has been growing around we
have been averaging in the last half dozen certainly, the last four years
about 4% employment growth a year. We have got inflation sitting at
about our exports in the last decade have doubled, the proportion of
our exports we devote to servicing our debt has fallen from 22% of our
exports to 11 and, I think, we have got a horsepower about the country
now, and a confidence I think we have probably never had before. So, I
think these policies have worked, and I think that the Australian people
have made themselves the effort, and have had the Confidence to take
the opportunity to make their own country internationally competitive. But
having made it competitive, take the leap in market growth in the East
Asian region.
J: Foreign policies you have already expressed that Australia will pull away
from the Commonwealth why the reason?
PM: No. I am saying that Australia should have its own Head of State that
the Head of State of Australia shouldn't be the Monarch of Great Britain,
that it's now inappropriate that it should be the Monarch of Great Britain.
Australia is now a multi-cultural country it Is a mono-culture no longer.
Over half of our migration intake comes from Asia. You know of our post-
War migration from Europe and the Middle East, and as a consequence,
Australia has a diversity and a vivaciousness about it now, and a
willingness a very strong desire to engage with the region, and that
sense of the culture of the new Australia and its identity can't be served
by us saying oh, by the way, our Head of State is the Monarch of Great
Britain. Our Head of State should be an Australian. So the Government
is supporting Australia moving from the Monarchy to an Australian
republic. But we do not wish to remove ourselves from the
Commonwealth. I attended a Commonwealth Heads of Government
meeting list week one of the two newest members returning was
President Nelson Mandela of South Africa. A republic, but he is still in the
Commonwealth. Well, Australia would be a republic too, but still in the
Commonwealth. But the Queen of Great Britain would not be the Queen
of Australia.
J: In the few days that you have been here, what has been your impression
staying in Osaka and Kansai, and also, could you please tell us what Is
you vision for future economic links between Japan and your country,
Australia?
PM: I think coming to. most of my visits to Japan are to Tokyo. I have been to
Osaka before, and coming to Kansai, one is reminded again of the actual
size and strength of Japan. You know, the industrial might one sees in
that trip from the airport into the city, past kilometres and kilometres of
petro-chemical plants and the rest, and this very big City and very large
population, and a very large part of Japan's GDP in the Kansai region.
We now fly direct flights into the new airport, we have a new relationship
with the Kansai region, and I think it's one that we can.. I1m ean, I think it's
cheaper to do business in Kansai, probably, than Tokyo. And I think we
see that opportunity. And it underlines again the absolute size and
significance of Japan when one thinks of the size of metropolitan Tokyo,
and then sees the strength of the Kansai region, it reminds you simply just
how large Japan is.
The other thought I had about it is that one of the reasons Japan has
been accumulating trade surpluses, and because it hasn't lifted domestic
demand to the point that perhaps it should, and in housing and
infrastructure, it has become very apparent to me that this is one place
where Japanese national savings should be sent. Cleaning up the
Capital Gains Tax rules on property would allow a sensible aggregation of
properties, more rational development of cities better urban planning.
Because one of the problems Australia has, is not a well developed sense
of urban planning, and I am unhappy to say that we share this with you.
There is no really developed sense of urban development in Japan. You
don't need to be an urban planner to understand this your eye can tell
you this, at every street corner. So, I think that if Japan continues to
worry about a surplus, and the strength of the Yen, one of the ways of
solving it is to put more of its savings into housing renewal, better cities
and a higher standard of living for people. But the one thing that is
certain Japan has got the strength to do all these things, and as such, it
is an important partner for Australia, an important interlocutor for
Australia, it is our largest trading relationship. And I think you can see,
throughout this APEC discussion where our officials and yours have
worked very closely together, where our Ministers and yours have worked
closely together, where Prime Minister Murayama and I have worked
closely together, how effective a partnership we can be if we put our
minds to getting something done.
J: Thank you very much, Prime Minister.
ends.