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PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P. J. KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH CATHERINE JOB, ABC RADIO " AM" PROGRAM,
17 OCTOBER 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
CJ: Well Mr Keating, you have been calling for some policy detail from Mr
Howard, he has just given us some, is it a step in the right direction?
PM. An endorsement of the Western Australian endorsement of the
Western Australian legislation. Hear him slipping and sliding when
you put the questions to him about the strikes, ' yes' he says in his
measured tones ' yes, we do, you know our position, we have been
supporting ballots on strikes for some time now'. Basically, look let me
just make this clear to you, his claim that the Federal Government is
supporting this strike or having anything to do with it is completely
untrue. This was on before I went to Western Australia. The blockade
had been announced before I ever went there and it is there because
of the viciousness of the Western Australian legislation. This year
Catherine, industrial disputes are at their lowest level since 1940.
They are at 70 working days lost per thousand people. When Mr
Howard was last in government it was 790 working days lost per
thousand people. We have, as I say, the lowest level of disputes in
the nation since 1940. What is happening in Western Australia now is
what you would see all over Australia if John Howard were to become
Prime Minister because John Howard endorsed Mr Kierath and Mr
Court's industrial legislation at the Western Australian Liberal Party
conference he spoke at about six weeks ago.
CJ: That was the first wave, of course, that he spoke about six weeks ago,
but this current dispute certainly suits your purposes doesn't it, to paint
a picture of the industrial mayhem you say would ensue under a
Coalition government?
PM: No industrial dispute in this sense suits my purposes. My purposes
are for industrial peace, they are for low inflation, high productivity and
high employment growth which is what we have at the moment. We
have the lowest level of industrial disputes since 1940, we have an
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inflation rate of 2.5 to 3 per cent. We have 2.5 per cent productivity
growth and 3 to 4 per cent employment growth. You don't get that
other than with a co-operative work force. How could you possibly
have row inflation like this and high productivity without a co-operative
work force? And, the whole consensus model, which the Government
has put together under the Accords since 1983, the reason we have
had declining inflation and higher productivity and a whole productivity
culture in the workplace is because of the consensus model. That is,
we have sensible wage outcomes in return for higher rates of
economic growth and employment.
Now, Mr Howard ran a conflict model all through the 1970s. What we
saw then was a massive level of industrial disputes. I'd like to give you
the numbers:, 790 to 70 from my recollection, I think that is exactly the
numbers and it is 10 times as much. There was over 10 or 12 times
more industrial disputes.
CJ: Mr Keating, you say that you don't want to encourage industrial
disputes and you are lauding your record on getting those numbers
down, did you do anything to dissuade the blockade of Western
Australia today?
PM;* Understand this, I spoke at the Nurses Federation over there last
week. Did you know that Richard Court has denied those nurses an
$ 8 wage safety net increase now for over 12 months. We have now
had to join issue with them in the federal court, in the arbitration
commission to support them in having it paid. They probably won't get
it paid until about next March in which case they will be 15 months
waiting for an $ 8 safety net wage increase. Mr Court is absolutely
vicious on these people and he has now brought in this draconian
legislation and were it to be there, of course, without the protection of
the federal award system people would have savage wage cuts and
loss of conditions.
CJ: But Mr Keating, as Mr Howard has pointed out this stunt isn't he says
about work place conditions or about pay, it's about politics. It's about
political donations from union dues and secret ballots for strikes.
PM: Understand this, it is about the whole nature of the Court government's
industrial relations. There is a whole community reaction to Mr Court
over there and that Is what's on. Mr Howard would like to think
otherwise, but you see, It has basically blown up on him. The same
way as Mr Kennett's legislation blew up on him three years ago. Mr
Kennett was telling the Business Council a week ago ' don't worry,
when the Federal Liberals get in we'll have the overarching federal
legislation so my west Victorian legislation will be able to work.' He
said ' the employees will have nowhere to go, they will be trapped'. In
other words, there will be Western Australian legislation right across
the country. I gave the example in the Parliament yesterday of a
librarian who was in touch with us in Victoria, who is not under the
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federal system, she has a wage now of $ 35,000, applied for another
job as a librarian in a part of Melbourne that suited her convenience to
her living and the wage on offer was $ 19,000. From $ 35,000 down to
$ 19,000 because she couldn't get the protection of the federal awards,
so she is staying where she is.
Now, you get that legislation across the country and you will find a
massive reaction, no one is going to have 20 and 30 per cent pay cuts
or in her case nearly a 50 per cent pay cut. Nobody is going to be
accepting that and that is what this is about. All of John Howard's
words are codes for wage cuts for the bottom end of the work force.
He-was out telling ACOSS last week, ' look, in some countries where
we have flexibility there are higher levels of employment growth ie
America'. You have heard the US Labour Secretary Robert Reich
recently talking about an army of working poor in America where
wages have been falling for 16 years. Sure they have had strong
employment growth, but there is literally an army of working poor and it
has done nothing for their economic growth, they are not growing
faster ever than at about 2.5 per cent.
CJ: Mr Keating, you have announced yesterday, if we can just move on to
another subject very briefly, the return of Don Russell our Washington
Ambassador..
PM: Can I just finish on this point, I was asked directly in the Parliament
yesterday did I support this strike? I said I neither endorse nor
t disendorse It and I didn't endorse it in Western Australia. These are
alt words put into my mouth. Mr Howard is conveniently in the
Canberra studio this morning to put words into my mouth, to say that I
support the strike and that I am basically in -some way behind it. I
didn't even know about it before I went to Western Australia, to be
frank with you. I haven't endorsed i t, but you see, he knows that it is a
foretaste of things to come for the community. He knows that the low
levels of industrial disputes now and the whole consensus model is up
for grabs were he to become Prime Minister and he knows I'll make
this point over and over again. That is why he got himself out of bed
and got shaved and sat in the studio at eight o'clock, showered and
dressed with nowhere to go at eight o'clock, to put the spurs into me
over policies that he supports.
CJ: He is very keen to reply to what you have just said Mr Keating if that is
ok with you.
PM: The thing is, of course he would. He would hang there if it was 1: 00am
in the morning, he would be hanging around trying to put his view. But
understand what his view is about, it is the rancid view of people that
despise working people, who want to push their wages and conditions
down. Look at Richard Court, not happy simply to defeat Carmen
Lawrence he had to try to destroy her personally with this vicious royal
commission. He is vicious. He is vicious on the work force and don't
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under estimate the degree of community reaction. I'm not talking
about union reaction, but community reaction in Western Australia.
And what the Australian community have got to know, were John
Howard to become Prime Minster, he would see this every week of the
year every week of every year that he was In office and why would
people turn their back on the lowest level of disputes that we are
seeing now 2.5 to 3 per cent inflation and high productivity growth
to take back the model that Mr Howard left as a smouldering ruin in
1980, 1981, 1982 and 1983.
CJ: Mr Howard is still here in the studio.
JH: Well, the Prime Minister has had an opportunity over the last few
minutes to behave like a national leader, to behave like a Prime
Minister, not to behave like a partisan politician. He could over the last
few minutes have condemned the strike, he could have called upon
the unions not to precede with it, he could have repudiated it, but what
does he do? Cowardly like and betraying his responsibilities as Prime
Minister Pontius Pilate like, he sits on the fence and he says ' I neither
endorse it nor disendorse it'. In other words, he is not prepared to
express a view on the inflicting of pain and suffering and discomfort on
1.3 mil lion of his fellow Australians. If ever there was a demonstration
that this whiole thing is a political cook-up between the Labor Party and
the ACTU, designed to create the impression that if there is a change
of government there will be industrial chaos. He knows damn well that
there is nothing in our policy that is going to out the wages of workers.
He is the world expert at cutting the wages of Australian workers, he
has cut their wages over the last 13 years, he has increased their
mortgage payments on average by 50 per cent, he has produced a
higher sustained level of unemployment of Australian workers than any
other Prime Minister since the end of World War 11 and what he is
about now is trying to generate a phoney political strike which is doing
real damage to the people of Western Australia. Instead of
condemning it, Instead of being the leader of the country, he is being
the provoker of severe industrial pain and disputation on the Western
Australian people. If people suffer today in Western Australia Paul
Keating is to blame and the last 10 minutes, particularly the last two
minutes of his interview have proved conclusively his political
motivation and attitude regarding this strike.
CJ: A brief response from you Prime Minister, are you going to condemn
the strike?
PM; That is a sort of condescending and supercilious line: " I have behaved
like a partisan politician." What were Mr Howard's first remarks to
come on the program to lay the responsibility at my door In precisely
the partisan way he always behaves. Secondly, it is not my matter.
This dispute is a dispute brought on by the Western Australian Liberal
Party( s legislation. It is a dispute that exists in the state of Western
Australia as a consequence of their behaviour. It is not my matter. I
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am neither endorsing it nor disendorsing it. It is not my matter, but it is
very much the matter of the Liberal Party. It is very much the matter of
the legislation of the Liberal Party. Let me just correct another thing
Mr Howard said, there haven't been wage cuts through the period of
the government's office. There has been a 7.2 per cent real wage
increase, real wage increase, during the 12 years of the government's
office. A 20 per cent increase per capita in household disposable
income and a 40 per cent increase in household disposable income
over 12 years. That is real, 40 per cent real, 20 per cent per capita
real and 7 per cent to real wages. So, Mr Howard is wrong on three
counts. He comes onto your program simply to make political points in a very
partisan way as an apologia for the viciousness of legislation, the
thrust of which, of course, he entirely supports.
CJ: Mr Keating, Mr Howard, thank you both for your time.
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