PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH PAUL LYNEHAM, " 7.30 REPORT', ABC TV,
28 SEPTEMBER 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
UNDER EMBARGO UNTIL 7.30 PM
J: Prime Minister, welcome to the program.
PM: Good, Paul.
J: Surely many Sydneysiders would agree with John Howard's
suggestion that the aircraft noise should be shared more fairly by
greater use of the east-west runway.
PM: Opening the east-west runway will just make Mascot inherently unsafe
and it will basically add another 100,000 people to the noise level.
J: Unsafe because of the intersecting runways?
PM: Because of the intersection of the flight paths.
J: But there were intersecting runways there for a long time.
PM: But not two runways. They are now intersecting two runways. At one
stage, until this runway was built, they intersected only one runway.
In fact John Howard has this to say about building the runway. This is
a press release of his from 1989. ' The Government is playing
carelessly with a situation that could too easily result in a major
tragedy. The risk must be averted. In the interests of safety, airport
facilities should be upgraded immediately including construction of the
third runway." I mean he hasn't got a leg to stand on. What has
happened, Paul, here is he has had a little bit of pressure from his own
electorate. He holds this seat of Bennelong, he has held it for
years. He is out there telling us he is the champion of
micro-economic reform. The largest micro change of the air traffic
system of Australia, was the third runway in Sydney. He is now saying
" cut its capacity dramatically by putting a cross-wind runway across it."
J: But all politicians respond to electorate pressure. I mean Bob Hawke
did it to you in the Tax Summit, didn't he? A bit of pressure from
Bill Kelty and your cart ran off the road.
PM: But the Government didn't respond to the pressure when it made the
decision to build the runway and it did build the runway. You see
John Howard is saying, " Elect me, Prime Minister of Australia. I will do
the hard things in the micro-economy." He said recently, " The greatest
priority that faces the Government at the present time is the national
economic interest to reignite the process of micro-economic reform."
The biggest micro-economic reform in aviation, is the third runway at
Mascot. It is the thing that let's the whole national system flow. It is
the gateway to Australia. He is saying, " You elect me Prime Minister
because Labor can't take the fight any further on waterfront, on the
shipping, in the airports, in the labour market. I will clean up and do
the hard bits." The first whiff of grapeshot, the first bit of pressure from
a seat he has held for 20 years, and he goes to water. He runs away
from statements he has made, absolutely categorical statements in
favour of building this thing.
J: But you say he is sort of shutting it down, or you imply he is almost
destroying the third runway. He is just saying, " Hang on for a few
months. Deal with the noise problem."
PM: No, he is not saying that at all. If we run an east-west runway now
across the two intersecting flight paths, it would be inherently unsafe.
Therefore, to try to make it safe you would have to drop the capacity
back enormously and you would never make it safe. That is what he is
saying. Secondly, he is saying, " If you don't do it, I will knock $ 2 billion
out of the Budget from the asset sales. I will refuse the passage of the
asset sales legislation in the Senate." This is the same person who is
telling us we should have bigger surpluses. You see the thing about
him is he can't take any pressure. He was like it when he was
Treasurer, he was like it when he was Opposition Leader in the
The first bit of weight goes on and he snaps.
J: But he is over 9 points ahead in the polls, he can't be doing everything
wrong?
PM: And he is weak and sneaky to go with it, Paul.
J: But the people
PM: He is weak because he always caves in on the big ones. You know
what we call him in the Parliament gunna Howard. He was gunna
float the exchange rate, but he didn't do it. He was gunna deregulate
the financial markets, but he didn't do it. He was gunna knock the tariff
wall over, but he didn't do it. He was going to fix the ports and
wharves, but he didn't do it.
J: He'd say he is going to beat you at the next election, and he will do it.
PM: Well he won't. Look, do you think the public are going to say, here is a
man who knows this airport should be built, who supported its building,
who cajoled the Government of the day to build it and now for the
weakest of political reasons he is now saying he wants to cut its
capacity dramatically and not only that he will actually knock $ 2 billion
out of the Budget while he is doing it.
J: You said yesterday it was still your intention to stretch the Parliament
out. Does that amount to " I have definitely ruled out an election before
Christmas"?
PM: No, because Prime Ministers with any sense don't rule anything out.
J: Do you concede you would get clobbered if you went now?
PM: No, I don't concede that at all. I mean the Government is about 7 to
8 percentage points, two party preferred, at difference with the
Coalition in the published polls.
PL: And your private polling says you lose by 20 seats.
PM: No it doesn't. And the moment a poll happens, people start shifting
their position immediately. But I do believe the public expect that
when they give a government a mandate, they expect it to go and do
it. The mandate we were given, was to restore growth to the
economy, and employment. We have now had 16 consecutive
quarters of growth 4 straight years of growth.. We have had nearly
680,000 job growth....
PL: And you have got what people are calling a voteless recovery?
PM: Well, I don't... let's wait and see. I mean, what will they do? Take an
outfit that has got no policies, that has no strategy for dealing with
wages?
PL: Well, the election is a way off yet he can out his policies, can't he?
PM: that's got other than cutting wages, which is his only policy that
on the micro-changes which will keep the efficiency of Australia
going, at the first test he fails it.
PL: Can you show me a piece of paper where John Howard says his plan
is to cut wages?
PM: Yes. I can show you a piece of paper which says that they will go to
individual employment contracts, and they will not have the Labor
Party's this Government's no-disadvantage test. That means that
penalty rates, holiday leave loading, overtime....
PL: But Peter Reith recently said that they would keep the nodisadvantage
tests.
PM: No. He said a no-disadvantage test not the no-disadvantage test.
PL: Well, until you discover what their components are, you can't...
PM: No, no, no. What he says is this if you want to take away... we say
this, if you want to have an enterprise bargain, and remove overtime,
holiday leave loadings and penalty rates, you can do it provided that
the overall package leaves the working person no worse off. In other
words, you can get the flexibility, but they have to be either no worse
off, or advantaged. What they would do is just simply let them lose it,
as the Western Australian legislation makes clear which Mr Howard
has endorsed.
PL: But until you see their policies, many voters are going to say here's
Paul Keating with the old scare campaign again.
PM: No, no, forget about the policies have a look at this week. Here he
is this week, he is going to try and knock.... has he been saying we
should have a bigger budget surplus? Why then, is he going to try
and punch a $ 2 billion hole in it by refusing the sale of the airports in
the Senate? Hasn't he said for years that we should have built a third
runway in Sydney to improve the micro-economic efficiency of the
East Coast air traffic system? He has why now is he trying to stifle
it? I mean, the fact is he represents nothing.
PL: Talking of representation, was Jennie George right when she said
yesterday that in the lead-up to the election, the ALP could not forget
that it was in power purely to represent the interests of workers?
PM: It's in power to advance the national interest, which is best advanced
through growth and employment. And whenever that happens,
working Australians always get a piece of the action the biggest
piece of the action and the place is more cohesive, and better. I
think that's what she means, and that's what we mean.
PL: And given that you have so many marginals that you are holding by
such a slim margin, and the Opposition only needs to win 9 to take
Government, how can you possibly be seen now as having any real
prospects of victory?
PM: Oh, well, I mean, that's a pretty dull question, Paul, from a smart
character like you.
PL: Well, how can you?
PM: You know that all these elections are won by the last half a
percentage point they have been won by the last half a percentage
point since Federation. I mean, they are all to get 50% plus 1 the
hard bit is getting the 49.5% first to put the last half a percent on.
PL: Yeah, but you are so far behind from that?
PM; No, we are not. Look, the thing is that the Government has done the
things that it was asked to do at the last poll. I stood up there at that
policy speech in Bankstown, and I said we will restore growth and
employment to the economy, we won't leave the unemployed behind.
And we have done exactly that. And look what has happened since
Mabo, APEC, the structure for the republic, Working Nation for the
long-term unemployed...
PL: But you have been very frustrated that there has not been any real
appreciation of these efforts?
PM: Well, I don't think that pollsters I have always said to you it takes a
politician to read the hieroglyphics of the polls. I mean, you have got
to understand what people are saying behind them, what they think.
And also, I think, the public are smart enough now, they know they
can always give the Government-a needle through the polls, just the
same as a by-election. But it is a wholly different matter in the old
ballot box on election day.
PL: Thanks for your time.
ends.