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PRIME MINJISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH FRAN KELLY, ABC RADIO " AM" PROGRAM
23 MARCH 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
EK: Prime Minister, isn't it fair to describe Ian McLachlan's resignation as
being over a technical issue because he unwittingly misled the public
over the secret Aboriginal women's documents?
PM: Well, that's your question to get me started Fran, you couldn't possibly
believe that. I mean the documents made up the Commonwealth's
entire case file in litigation between the Minister for Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander Affairs and the developers in this Hindmarsh
Bridge case, and an appeal was lodged in the Federal Court in this
matter last Friday that included the report on the secret Aboriginal
women's evidence. Now, this box was marked confidential, it was then
opened, the mail was pilfered and then in another envelope marked for
women's eyes only, that was then opened and then another one,
inside that was the envelope which had the women's secret advice and
evidence. Now, this was then photocopied and sent to the developers,
amongst others, and to newspapers.
EK: But the secret women's documents weren't sent to the developers?
PM: There were 800 documents 800.
FK: Yes, but those ones, those particular ones, and that's the issue that Mr
McLachlan resigned over isn't it?
PM: Well, Mr McLachlan and Mr Howard should tell us who got the copies
of the women's letters, who have received those, but the other thing is
this...
FK: Well, Mr McLachlan says no-one did, that only one photocopy was
held in his office.
PM: He resigned for this reason. That he and John Howard, and John
Howard admitted on a radio program in Sydney last week, that he was
at the tactics committee. He and John Howard agreed on a series of
questions they knew were misleading of the House of Representatives.
And they then asked the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and charged in
the question, that he had opened up the mail, he had done the
photocopying and he had sent them around when they knew full well
that it was themselves. So, not only is there the dishonour of breaking
into this mail which was obviously not for them, but as well as that they
then tried to frame a Minister, alleging of the Minister, that he, the
Minister, was the photocopier and disseminated information when
John Howard and Ian McLachlan knew it was them. Now, this is
dishonour on very large scale and to have this sort of smarmy stuff
from Costello, I mean, " he's a talent, and I think this will be seen as a
technical issue", I mean these people have got the political morals of
alley cats.
EK: But, Mr Keating, no matter where you see the dishonour, isn't the truth
that, or isn't it reality that Mr McLachlan in fact resigned because he
said he misled the Australian public over the markings on that
envelope containing the secret women's documents? That's the issue.
PM: He misled the House of Representatives. This stuff about misleading
the Australian people, he misled the House of Representatives, and he
can't come back as a Shadow Minister and John Howard was party
look, he resigned because he misled the House of Representatives.
John Howard sat beside him knowing that the question he was asking,
the question that misled the House, was one he approved of. They
both misled the House and that's why we ask for Howard's resignation.
And here they are a week later, I mean they have got nobody on their
front bench, you see the whole Opposition is a shell down there, in
Canberra. There's nobody there.
FK: Yes, but why shouldn't he be able to come back at some point though,
I mean...
PM: Come off it Fran.
FK: Ministers do this all the time. Senator Graham Richardson was
brought back into your Cabinet after he had to step aside over the
Marshall Islands affair.
PM: You know what they said, these people, I mean the gall of them. They
said they had a duty as an MP, Mr McLachlan said to his constituents,
to developers in the Hindmarsh Bridge affair. But was it no less of a
duty to his Aboriginal constituents in the same constituency? I mean
then they said they had an obligation to pass the information over to
these developers. John Howard and Ian McLachlan are not solicitors
for the developers, they had no legal obligation no obligation at all.
And when asked on a Sydney radio, Mr Howard was enjoined by the
questioner to say, " well I wouldn't do that if I came across legal
documents that were on the other side of the case to me, I would send
them back". And Howard said, " would you?". It was John Laws in fact.
He said " yes I would". I mean, there's no morality here. But you
understand, Fran, their front bench has nobody on it. They are now
trying to get McLachlan back because, look, they appointed the other
day Kemp to the environment portfolio who now says we shouldn't be
using international treaties to protect the environment. They are now
down to backbench Senators.
FK: Yes, but Prime Minister, you have to concede that Governments do
bring back Ministers who have slipped aside for some reason or other
and you have done it yourself?
PM: Yes, Graham Richardson came back after being out the better part of a
year after a general election. Not the better part-of a week after one of
the most dishonourable episodes.
FK: Yes, but Mr Costello was talking about if the Coalition won
Government.
PM: They're talking about trying to bring him back beforehand they're just
softening the ground. Ian McLachlan had to resign because he was
caught red-handed trying to fit a Minister up for something that he,
McLachlan, had done and the great injustice in this is that Howard was
in it right up to his ears, admitted that he was at the tactics committee
meeting, knew the question that McLachlan was going to ask, was just
as culpable of misleading the House of Representatives as McLachlan
was, but you see you couldn't get him to resign he just sat there and
sat it out. He thought he would wear the rest of you out and that he
could burn you off. And now they are so brazen that he thought he
could burn the press gallery off and the media and public opinion off,
and now within a week, they are so brazen, within a week, Costello is
saying we ought to have him back.
FK: Mr Keating, if I could turn briefly to the economy. The Australian
newspaper reports today that your own internal polling is showing the
next election could hinge on keeping interest rates down. Can you say
now that you can manage the economy without the need for further
rate rises?
PM: You have not got to be a polling whiz, have you, to know that people
don't like interest rate increases. I mean you don't have to be an
insider to work that out. Well, the Government is in the course now of
producing the Budget, and the Budget will be a Budget which will be
appropriate for the economic circumstances of the moment, and for the
medium term. We have got a medium term paucity in savings we
want to address that in the medium term. I think the economy has
slowed and is slowing and I am waiting to see by how much when we
get the next national accounts data. But in the meantime, the
Government's going to do a first-rate job on the Budget because I think
that's the important imperative now.
FK: Well, are the clear signals coming from you now that the budget deficit
will be cut by tough spending cuts rather than tax increases?
PM: Well, the clear signal coming from me, don't put words in my mouth
Fran.
FK: Well, coming from you and your senior Ministers...
PM: I know you are bright-eyed and bushy-tailed at this hour of the
morning, but look, what we are saying is the clear message coming
from me is the Budget will be right.
FK: But, will the Budget be right through tough spending cuts rather than
more tax increases?
PM: Well, you just wait and see.
EK: Is there room given the strong employment growth to cut spending
from some of the money put aside for Working Nation?
PM: Well, I think it is worth just recording, I mean people go on about the
Budget and the economy, I mean, the Australian economy is the
strongest in the OECD area. We have had strong growth with low
( inflation) and we have had 590,000 job growth since the election. I
mean, essentially the Government was re-elected to get growth started
and employment started. We have had 3 and 3/ 4 per cent
employment growth. And that is one of the reasons why household
disposable income these strong levels of employment of this
Government why the disposable income of Australian households
have risen by 40 per cent since the Government came to office, which
is a huge number.
FK: Does that strong employment growth then translate though into you
having some room in the money you had set aside for Working Nation
to now put into bringing back the deficit?
PM: Well, you are asking me about whether there is any spending room to
reduce outlays under Working Nation, well, I'm not sure. I mean,
analysis of all this in the ERC round will reveal this. The key point is,
Mr Howard is running around saying we have had five minutes of
economic sunshine. We have had 36 months of growth, 36 months of
growth, go and tell the 593,000 people who have got their jobs that it
was only five minutes of sunshine and go and remind them that the
economy has seen one of the strongest investment phases in recent
years which is setting us up for more goods and services into the
future.
FK: Yes, but the question for the voters, I suppose, is can you tell them
now that you can get the Budget so right that there's unlikely there will
be a need for further interest rate rises?
PM: Well, I won't have to tell them. That will be all apparent to them by the
election, won't it? I mean, they are mature, they are conscientious,
they will make their own judgements about all that. They will see, I
believe, that the Australian economy will continue to grow and prosper
and it will do so with low inflation and with all of the attendant changes
of recent years in productivity and the rest. That's the key here.
FK: And further rate rises though?
PM: Well, look, these sort of questions about, you know, are you ruling in
or are you ruling out interest rate rises. I mean, you have seen the
change in the world monetary system over the last three weeks. I
mean, no Government can say, well, there will never be another
increase in interest rates, or that it is unnecessary. But, I am just
saying that the Budget will be a key factor in that and we will be getting
that right.
EK: Mr Keating, thank you.
PM: Thank you. Fran, before you leave now I know Mr Fahey's coming
on, and he has been caught out with these non-existent costings of
New South Wales Labor promises in New South Wales just ask him
how does he defend that porky, that enormous porky?
FK: We'll put that question to Mr Fahey. Thank you, Prime Minister.
PM: It's an enormous porky. Thank you.
ends