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PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH PAUL LYNEHAM, 7.30 REPORT, CANBERRA
2 MARCH 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
PL: Prime Minister, welcome to the program,
PM: Thank you, Paul.
PL: John Howard says that you didn't stare him down on the Land Fund Bill
indeed, he would welcome a double dissolution tomorrow.
PM: I put the weights right on him. He had a chance.... . we have been
saying " when will the real John Howard stand It has taken only
four weeks to show he is the same person he was in the 80s. He had
the opportunity to say " I'm going to get rid of this Downer nonsense
about the Aboriginal Land Fund, I'll clean it out, I'll support the
Government's amendments the Government's Bill and we will have
a principled Land Fund for Aboriginal people". Instead of that, he
adopted all the Downer nonsense all the Downer amendments
brought it to the House, and I said no we will have a principled Bill,
and if we don't, we will have the option of presenting it after a double
dissolution". And he went immediately to water.
PL: You could call his bluff pretty easily Yarralumla is just down the road.
PM.-I called his bluff, and as a result, this is going to be a great day for
Aboriginal people. They will now have the twin parts: that is, the two
bits the Native Title Legislation for those who still have a traditional
association with the land, and for those dispossessed of the land, they
will have the opportunity to buy land through a cogent, coherent
Aboriginal Land Fund.
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PL: And he says if and when he becomes the Prime Minister, he will
change it, and he will have the mandate to do so,
P M' In other words, ( he will say) I1 won't give black people land I will do
everything I can in the Senate to stop them, and even though this
Prime Minister has bailed me up for the moment, if I get back into
office, I will undo all of these things, and deny them this opportunity'.
You see, Howard never learns he never wipes the slate clean, he is
the same person as he has always been. This is the point he is out
of his age.
PL: But if he goes to an election saying clearly to voters that he wants to
make this change, and if he were to win, then he will have such a
mandate, won't he?
PM: To what? Strip the most dispossessed of Australians of the land the
Commonwealth Government Labor Government has given them? I
mean, what an ambition.
PL: Well he says that one of the changes he wants is to make sure that the
most dispossessed get the land.
PM: And he knows, and I know, where that sort of putrid cynicism... as if we
could have courts saying " are you more dispossessed than another
person?", so land is given away an Aboriginal person then
challenges that other Aboriginal person's right in the courts, and we
have a debate in the courts about whether one is more dispossessed
than the other. It's appalling.
PL: He says such judgements are made all the time in public life.
PM. They are not. He had a chance to cut a new cloth John Howard that
was to come clean and say ' I want a better relationship with Aboriginal
Australia, we can't have an inclusive society without the first
Australians being part of it'. But no, he has picked up the old rightwing
Tory reactionary agenda which Mr Downer was powerless to stop
and he is powerless to stop and has supported it. It came to the
House and the Government said ' no, no we won't have it'.
PL: What of the Coalition's desire to enable individuals to have an
entitlement to land and if they so wish be able to sell it. He says by not
doing so, the Government is being patronising and ignoring the needs
of urban Aborigines,
PMV: That is another slick argument from a slick person without principle.
An Aboriginal person has the same right that you and I have to buy a
piece of land this very day. But, what this Bill is about is the
Commonwealth Government, the Parliament, conferring on an
Aboriginal person and communities land which is paid for by the public
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for the express purpose of giving them that right to land. You can't talk
about Aboriginal health or Aboriginal welfare without talking about
land, because when Aboriginal people are living a traditional lifestyle
on their land their morale improves, their health improves, their whole
style of life improves and to be saying that we are denying an
individual a rightness, they want it in this Bill. One of their other
amendments was to say to an Aboriginal individual person you can sell
the land to someone else and keep the money. Well, the Parliament is
conferring on Aboriginal communities these funds. The very point of it
is for community rand.
PL: On another matter Prime Minister, Mr Howard says push polling is un-
Australian and should not be used here, do you accept his statement?
PM: I have been saying that and he was condoning or was seen to
condone it by not pulling Andrew Robb up. 1 mean, this is the most
sinister development I have seen in 20 odd years in public life.
PL: But, he has now publicly rejected it.
PM: Well, I saw today someone asked him ' Does Mr Robb still have your
confidence?' ' Yes'. ' Are you opposed to push polling?' ' Well, I'm
opposed to anything that I think the Australian people regard as
undesirable.' In other words, I won't get out there in front, I'll hang
around behind and see what the reaction is to this. This is the worst
elements of right-wing America. Insidiously saying to 400 people in a
supposed poll, trafficking defamations which are completely untrue to
try to spoil the candidate's reputation and chances. I mean, he should
have just completely wiped his hands of it the moment it arose, but the
cynicism, again, the real John Howard did stand up. He hasn't
changed that Mr 18% at the end of 1989 and we saw him today. He
had his worst day in Parliament today, his worst week in Parliament
since he has become Leader and this honeymoon is ending very
rapidly.
PL:-Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PM.-Thank you, Paul.