PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P. J. KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH JOHN LAWS, RADIO 2UE, WEDNESDAY,
13 JULY 1994
E& OE PROOF COPY
JL: On the line from Canberra, we have the Prime Minister, Paul Keating.
Prime Minister, good morning.
PM: How are you John?
JL: Have you got any money?
PM: Well, this is Mr Webster is it?
JL: Yes.
PM: You see, it's State Government Ministers without any vision and
without any ideas. When the national government talks and they say
well, rather than us give you a plan or sit down and negotiate
something with, give us a cheque, give us some money. In other
words, if you want something give us some money. Now, the
Commonwealth has got a lot of money in Sydney now with the Better
Cities Program in Pyrmont.
JL: Yes.
PM: $ 117 million and a number of areas around Sydney. I made an
offer to the Fahey government, that is, that we would deal with them on
this subject. They never came back to us. Not at any stage and I've
been waiting for a response and a proposal. One which says look, it
costs this much to take the expressway away, these are our idea about
the railway. What has happened here, John, is the State Rail
Authority and the Roads and Traffic Authority look, we're not having
this, we want to keep our expressway and you can see basically, the!
run the Cabinet down here.
JL Well, many people would feel that way because many people would
see it simply as being pig headed and non-visionary to leave the
wretched thing there when it is an eyesore and does precious little
good, but they are saying it would cost $ 400 million to make the
alternate arrangements and they can't afford it. Now, it's hard for
anybody to deny that they're not telling the truth?
PM: Based on what though? Based on what? I mean, putting the railway
under ground or terminating the railway at Wynard. I mean, it didn't
always go round past Circular Quay. Doing what with the road
system? Selling off the real estate either end. I mean, what's the
basis of that? See, at no stage has the New South Wales government
come back to the Commonwealth about the issue. I'll tell you what's
happened here John two things.
JL I was led to believe, could you tell me if I'm wrong, I was led to believe
and, I think, you might have told me that you said that you were so
keen on the idea you'd be happy to sort of give them a hand, help, I
think, was the word used. Is that true?
PM: That's right and in other words sit down and where some of these
projects are beyond the capacity of a State government and
particularly where you've got national I mean, this city is going to be
the show case city of the world at the end of this century.
JL Well, it should be.
PM: It's not going to be with the way the Fahey government is
administering it with a Casino in Pyrmont, with the destruction of
Pyrmont by the Roads and Traffic Authority, with the decision to leave
the Cahill Expressway there, the fact is that, and I'm told that this
decision has been made for two reasons. One, that the National Party
wouldn't stand spending this sort of money in the city that's point one.
JL Yes, well, that was intimated by Robert Webster.
PM: Well, he is a National Party Minister. And point two, that the Cabinet
is not strong enough for the SRA and the Roads and Traffic Authority.
Just look at the destruction at Pyrmont and you can see the sort of
tyranny that these bodies are actually wreaking on Sydney. No central
planning. No idea about objectives, if they want to put an expressway
or an elevated expressway through an urban area, they just bang the
houses and the buildings out of the way and there it goes ugly as sin
and the aesthetic and the urban environment is the last thought they
have.
JL Yep, well, you've said to me on more than one occasion that Sydney is
the most wonderful city in the world. Very few people would argue, but
I suppose your personal view and personal pride in Sydney can't allow
you to simply hand over the money because you want something
done. There are other things that have to be taken into account.
PM: There are important objectives here. The Olympics is an important
thing.
JL: Important to all Australia.
PM: Well, the Commonwealth joined with the former Labor government
with Neville Wran and Laurie Brereton to get this harbour tunnel built.
JL: Yes.
PM: Together we made arrangements to build a harbour tunnel. That left
the opportunity then of feeding eastern Sydney other than by via the
Cahill Expressway. So, it's now an opportunity to take it down, but I'm
afraid this Government has no courage and no vision.
JL: Well, when you say you are prepared to help them does that mean you
would give them financial aid?
PM: Yes. I've said to them if they come back with a set of arrangements
that we would consider it, but it's got to be a scheme, an arrangement.
But, basically what they've said is ' look, we don't care about it and
there's no way the National Party is going to let us spend this money in
Sydney, so, we are not doing So, the Commonwealth offer just
went apparently Robert Webster said we reneged on an offer. Well,
that's a straight untruth. A complete untruth.
JL: Maybe I could get Mr Webster back again and suggest to him that..
PM: Ask him when we reneged. Is there any correspondence? And, there
won't be.
JL: Yes, he said there was incidentally.
PM: No, there was no correspondence. The fact is I was waiting for them
to come back to the Commonwealth and they never have.
JL: Anyway the point is, it's another thing that shouldn't be a political issue
should it? We're talking about the beautification of the greatest city in
the country.
PM: You've got to have governments that have got some heart, John.
JL: Yes, and you've got to have governments that are prepared to be a bit
co-operative.
PM: and they still haven't got an Olympic Chief appointed. They want to
build a building as ugly as sin in Pyrmont which will destroy that whole
area over there and basically that's because of lowest common
denominator guidelines. I mean, the casino shouldn't be in Pyrmont, it
should be in the city proper. And, I think, that the people of Sydney
and New South Wales, indeed all Australians, who are interested in
Sydney particularly as the Olympics are arising, there's a stewardship
here given to the Fahey government to go and make some decisions
for the nation not just for Sydney or for New South Wales and
making a horrible mess of it.
JL: Yes, and you are prepared to be co-operative in the making of the
decisions?
PM: Yes, but I'm not prepared to say, to down-the-line National Party
ministers ' look, here's an open cheque for what you want to do', and
them saying to us ' otherwise we won't deal with you.' The
Commonwealth will not deal with any government on that basis.
JL: Well, I suppose the Commonwealth couldn't do that because you can't
have people holding a gun to your head can you?
PM: No and, you know, without basically doing what these see, there is a
central issue here , John, these authorities are outside of political
control.
JL: That's right.
PM: The State Rail Authority and the Roads and Traffic Authority will wreck
any urban environment, they will destroy any city state if it suits them.
They are run by engineers and all they are about is building bigger
and more impressive, in their terms, expressways or corridors and the
urban aesthetic, the urban environment, the beauty of the city I
mean the whole notion of beauty is not even in their lexicon.
JL: Yes, the thing is again and I hope you agree, that this really should not
be a political issue should it?
PM: Well, not when the Commonwealth government which has no
responsibilities for Sydney directly has said generously because of the
Olympics we will sit down and look at the central quay side area of
Sydney and Pyrmont and where we have already invested, on the
verge of investing $ 117 million.
JL: Yes, well, you've given the City of Sydney the Qustoms House and
there surely is the opportunity to make the most wonderfully
aesthetically pleasing area for an entrance to this great city in this
great country.
PM: There are two things that the Commonwealth has done, that I've done
recently. One was to give to the Council of the City of Sydney a sixty
year lease on the Customs House because it is a central civic building
of the Quayside. It's now hidden behind the railway station.
JL Yes.
PM: The other thing we did was to, in the course of those financial
arrangements, give the City Council the capacity to buy down the
heights of the buildings behtind the Opera House, so the Opera House
wasn't marred by a big, ugly set of buildings built on those sites behind
the Opera House.
JL Yes, it's bad enough that people ought to remember when they are
complaining that it could have been worse if you hadn't have been
able to do the deal with the City of Sydney.
PM: What will come there won't be perfection, and it wouldn't be as I would
like it all, but it is going to be much, much better than it would have
ever been. Now, the only leadership which has been shown in the
area of the central city and the Quayside and these environs is going
to matter so much to Sydneysiders and to the country over the long
term is via the Council of the City of Sydney and the Commonwealth
government. Not the Fahey government.
JL OK, well, you've now made it patently clear that the offer is there to
help. Help, of course, in what form I don't know and that's none of our
business at this stage, but something could be discussed and would
be discussed if they chose wouldn't it?
PM: But, I'm not going to have some down-the-line National Party minister
from a State government saying ' well, Prime Minister, you give us a
cheque and then don't ask any questions.' I mean, we are not dealing
like that and it's up to New South Wales to come back with a proposal.
They have not done. so. The Commonwealth hasn't reneged. This is
just a failure of leadership by the Fahey Government, nothing else.
JL Prime Minister, thanks for your time.
PM: Thank you, John.
ends