C-9-
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND, THE HON J B BOLGER
MP, DOORSTOP, PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA,
WEDNESDAY, 6 JULY 1994
E& OE PROOF COPY
PM: I might say a few things first and invite the Prime Minister to also say a
couple of words. I would like to begin by saying I am very pleased to
see the Prime Minister in Australia. We've had a very good and useful
talk this morning for quite a long time, ranging over a number of
subjects, and we've just had lunch with members of the Cabinet and
we'll be meeting further this afternoon. We had a very useful
discussion about our role, our joint role, in the Asia-Pacific, about
_ 4PEC, about the prospects for APEC, how the debate's going, how it's
developing, about the development of further linkages between
Australia and New Zealand and the ASEAN group of. countries,
particularly in their free-trade area, AFTA, a-nd potential linkages, or
the prospects I suppose you'd say, of linkages between AFTA and
CER, and how we might best progress that discussion, what value we
see in it for ourselves, how we might participate. We discussed then
some bilateral issues I think we agreed that the relationship between
Australia and New Zealand is in very good shape we just dealt with a
couple of issues in the last year that were around for a while, that was
an agreement on Social Security payments, we've just come to a
settlement over compensation payments to Nauru Island and then we
went on to have a discussion about the trans-Tasman aviation market
and also about audio-visuals, and the capacity to enter this market with
the appropriate accreditations for products, audio-visual products
made in New Zealand. I think that's it in a nutshell, and I'll invite the
Prime Minister to add to those remarks.
JB: Certainly, and good afternoon. I just want to confirm what Prime
Minister Keating has said that the discussions were very constructive,
they were warm. I think the fact that we spent a lot of our time on
regional issues APEC, the forum, links between, or possible links
between the ASEAN free-trade agreement and CER demonstrates
that the relationship between the two is a very mature relationship
between New Zealand and Australia, and there are not many
additional items that attract immediate attention that we have to deal
t
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with. There are some that are on-going that Prime Minister Keating
has touched on the aviation issue, TV quotas, audio-visuals and the
like delighted that when we do come together we can progress some
of these issues and that, as the Prime Minister said, last year we had
to resolve the issue, or make progress on the issue, of Social Security
compensation to Australia for New Zealanders that were here. We've
been able to do that, we've been able to reach the agreement
necessary on compensation to Nauru, so it's been very good. If I say
it's the type of meeting I think we should have on a regular basis, as
we've agreed. No great fuss or bother, we just sit down, discuss one
or two issues that are important to both countries and that are
important to our region. So that's what we've been doing.
J: Did you discuss the twin republics, and if so, what was said?
PM: No, we didn't.
JB: No.
J: Why not?
PM: Well, we had other things to discuss, that was the point.
J: Did you discuss the single aviation market? Did you make any
progress?
JB: I believe we did. We discussed, of course, the single aviation market
when Prime Minister Keating was in New Zealand last year. I think
what we would agree is that we haven't seen enough progress on it
and there are some quite valid reasons why it's been difficult to
advance, but we do want to see it advance, even though there are
difficulties. So we want to see that. We know there is some issues to
be resolved, that flow from the Memorandum of Understanding, and all
of that. So we've had quite a good discussion.
J: What are New Zealand's views on that?
JB: Well, Air New Zealand's got a view as to what on-rights should be
available to it, and the like. There's obviously two views on it.
J: Mr Keating, what are Australia's problems.. . with a single aviation
market?
PM: Well, I think we see, I mean, Australia and New Zealand have moved a
long way with an open product market. We haven't been as successful
in services. As you remember, the former government of New Zealand
sold Telecom New Zealand to a couple of American companies, and
we haven't had the integration in electronic communication, and
telecommunications, that we might have otherwise had, and I think we
are therefore more mindful of how we need to progress and succeed in
doing something similar, that is successfully, with air transport. There
are a lot of balls in the air at the moment with air transport, we've got
the government of Australia's intention to sell Qantas, and a float
coming up. We've got Ansett now emerging as an international carrier
and stabilising its domestic balance sheet and its domestic services;
and Air New Zealand's participation in the Australian Market and a
view about what sort of airline system Australasia needs to service it in
the long run. Now, I think they are fairly complex issues and they're
not really open for, sort of, simple resolutions.
J: Mr Bolger, is it possible for a conservative leader to be in favour of a
republi[ c? And, the way the debate is going in Australia do you think
New Zealand might beat us to a republic?
JB: Despite, I'm sure, your ambition or the Australian Press Gallery's
ambition to embroil me in the Australian debate, I don't intend to get in
it. Can I just say, in answer to your query, that I have set out a view
that New Zealand will eventually follow. I have set no particular time
frame on it and it is a view that is now being discussed in New Zealand
with no particular heat. I have set out my views on the issue, I know
there have been views set out here in Australia but I don't intend to get
into those ones.
J: Mr Keating, do you think New Zealand might beat us to a republic?
PM: Well, I don't know, that is a matter for New Zealand. I think the Prime
Minister has taken to this subject with alacrity and good for him. In our
country, of course, we've got a debate now and we've had a mature
debate going but, again, you see the leadership weakness of the
Opposition. Mr Downer's leadership weakness. I mean, he is on radio
and he is on television, he has words everywhere but he has no policy
anywhere. And, he has no policy on this and now he is being
contradicted within his own party, on the republic. Let me just say two
things about that, there are two questions about the republic. The first
question is when the question is put, " Do you believe in an Australian
republic?", if the answer to that is in the affirmative you go to the
second question, " How do you do it, what debate is there, how do you
participate in it, how does it come off?" But, what Mr Downer has said,
in June, on 2UE is, " I am opposed to an Australian republic." So, in a
sense, he has disqualified himself from moving to question two, that is,
how it is duhe. Now, ll-he has got the problem within his party...
J: But he has challenged you ( inaudible)...
PM: There is no good him pretending there is something in my position that
prevents him from showing leadership. The first issue, the first issue
of substance in his leadership has come upon him and he is all over
the shop. He has no policy and he has, on this issue, no strength
other than to say that he is not in favour of the republic. Now, as far as
the government is concerned, we've already moved to question two.
We've got a cabinet committee looking at the issues in the republic
and the modalities of a shift to a republic and we've published and set
up a committee to look at the modalities of a change the Turnbull
Committee and, it has produced a report. And, the best thing I can
say to Mr Downer is, " Get a copy of the report." He can get a copy from
the Bills and Papers Office, it's freely available and he can go and take
it.
J: That's not the government's position though, that is just a committee
report. Mr Downer is saying, " When are you going to come out and
say what
PM: Let me just say this; Mr Downer said, " I am opposed to an Australian
republic." That means he has disqualified himself from participating in
any debate about how it might be done. Is that right or what? The
second point is that the establishment of the report was part of the
government's election strategy at the last election. I said this, I took
the position of leadership and said the Australian Labor Party believes
Australia should become a federal republic. And, we set up an expert
group, headed by Mr Turnbull, to produce the first piece, what is the
first piece of paper in this country, which looks at all the issues. Now,
that report has been presented, the government is now considering
that report. But, the opposition, you know, all over the place. Mr
Downer has shown no leadership whatsoever. Words, transcripts, but
no thoughts.
J: He said you don't have the guts to set out a detailed position, when will
you do that?
PM: Well, he is the one who is not in favour, look, let me just read you the
quote, 3rd June, 1994...
JB: He came prepared.
PM: " I'm not in favour of the republic," so, where does it leave him on the
republic? It leaves him barracking for the Monarchy. But, he knows, in
his party, a great many members of his party do not support the policy.
But, he also knows that if he shifts he also has to deal with Mr Howard
and others. So, the government is moving well and truly in its
discussions and has moved on to question two.
PM: having decided in the affirmative, yes we want a republic, and that's
the Government's view, we've moved the question two. Mr Downer
hasn't even moved past question one.
J: ( inaudible) ( when will the Government respond to the Turnbull
report??)
I
PM: When the Government considers its position.
J: New Zealand has considered joining or has examined joining a free
trade agreement with Chile. Is that likely to progress and what would
that mean for New Zealand'
JB: Well, I'm sure it will have no down side in any relationship, any
relationship we establish with Chile will have no down side on the CER
relationship with Australia. That idea is being considered. Officials
have had preliminary talks, they've gone no further than that. We see
some benefit in it, but itis very early days. We just need to see where
a progress of what the substance of it might be and then we'll make a
decision.
J: Mr Bolger, tomorrow you are seeing how Transfield is getting on
building the patrol boats, is it an option for New Zealand that rather
than build a third or fourth Anzac frigate, you might, in fact, buy patrol
boats? 2
JB: Not being considered. We don't have to make a decision on the third
and fourth frigate for some time yet. So, that issue just simply hasn't
been addressed in New Zealand.
J: Given that you're both keen on a link between CER and AFTA how
long do you think it will take to achieve that?
PM: I don't think either of us could say. I think, it is a matter of this is not
a necessity for Australia or New Zealand. I think, we agree, we think it
is a good thing. Therefore, because we think so, there's a case for
progressing it sensibly by talking to ASEAN leaders and to see what is
in it for Australia and New Zealand and * what is in'it for our potential
partners.
JB: The speed of progress will be substantially, in my view, and I think
Prime Minister Keating agrees, be determined by the ASEAN nations.
If they believe it is a good idea, what time frame do they think it should
occur over. And, we again, are in preliminary discussions. We both
agree it is a good idea, we've both said that publicly, we've both had
the opportunity to talk one to one with ASEAN leaders so, I think, it is a
good idea that we should just quietly take it forward.
J: ( inaudible) ( Australia's concern with the level of defence spending
in NZ??)
PM: The PM and I didn't discuss it at this meeting, but as we were walking
out I said we probably will say something about it together later this
afternoon. I think our position on this is fairly clear. We think that
Australia and New Zealand should maintain and be able to maintain
core competencies and a core capability in defence spending and the
Prime Minister knows my view about this. I said so when I was in New
Zealand and I don't have to say it this afternoon to him. I've just said it
now.
JB: And you don't have to say anything more, but we probably might have
a little chat. The simple fact is I said in our discussions last year in
Wellington that the Government was committed to keeping spending at
about the level it was. We have and we will.
J: A question to both Prime Ministers. The US federal reserve decision
on official interest rates in the US. What ' s the impact on..
PM: We don't know what decision that may be so why speculate about it?
J: Mr Bolger, how is it in New Zealand your country is able to have a
reasonable rational bipartisan approach to the republic..
( Dennis Grant: We're like that
JB: Mr Grant who has been in your country for some time has given you
the answer. No, I think, the answer is that the debate has not
advanced as far in New Zealand as Australia and what way it will
develop, I think, is yet to be determined. But, what one must observe
is that all the political leaders of New Zealand even in quiet voices do
agree.
J: Mr Keating, on the republic. How do you feel about the fact that you
and Dr Hewson may end up on the same side on this issue?
PM: Well, I was inviting Dr Hewson you remember I made what I thought
was an open political offer for his Opposition to join with the
Government and make the transition for Australia from a constitutional
monarchy to a republic. That offer at the time was rejected. The
Government then went on to establish the Turnbull Committee and it is
now going on to consider those outcomes. But, even late repenters
we're very happy to see them on board.
JB: Can I go back to the early question, because I may have left it slightly
understated there. I'd have to say there's an awful lot of
parliamentarians on all sides of the Parliament who don't agree
however.
J: Did you discuss New Zealand's warmer relationship with the United
States ( inaudible)
PM: No, we didn't. We think this is a matter between New Zealand and the
United States. It's not our business and I'm very glad you think, and
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it's generally afoot, that there's a warmer relationship between the two
countries. I'm sure that's a very good thing.
JB: It is and it is warming and the relationship between myself and
President Clinton is a very positive one and I think it's very good for
not only New Zealand, but I think it's good for our region.
J: ( inaudible)...
PM: We've been discussing this
JB: I was just going to say no, that won't happen. Relax. Thank you.
ends