PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING, MP
INTERVIEW WITH PAUL LYNEHAM, 7.30 REPORT, 25 MAY 1994
E& OE PROOF COPY
PL: Prime Minister, welcome again to the program.
PM: Thank you, Paul.
PL: Now, Alexander Downer says you are a fast money man. Has he got a
point?
PM: Well, that's come from his view of the world. If it is not old money, it has
to be fast money. And, if it is fast money it is not proper money.
PL: There's not much difference in the end though, is there?
PM: I mean, God knows what he thinks of John Hewson. If he thinks that fast
money is improper. I mean, this is all part of the b'orn to rule squad. I
noticed in yesterday's Australian, the front page, " I am born to the Liberal
Party, and I am a creature of the Liberal Party." In other words, I am born
to rule the rest of the you. Because, what we have seen here is basically
a take over by the old Fraser Staley gang, this is a return, as Gerard
Henderson said, it looks like a return to the fifties.
PL: But it doesn't matter whether it is new money, old money, or what sort of
money. The fact is, most of the people at the top in Australian politics,
yourself included, are quite wealthy. Wouldn't we be better just getting off
on that basis?
PM: No, it has got nothing to do with that. He came on saying I had made a
personal attack upon him. Where in fact, I had repeated Dr Hewson's
remarks about the mode of his selection by the Melbourne political and
business establishment at the Melbourne Club.
PL: Now, this was Dr Hewson's comment last Friday night. As a matter of fact
we have got that, let's just have a look at that now.
JH: " It is a very important issue, this ballot. Because the issue is the future of
the Liberal Party, and the Party now has a very clear choice between a
Party that would be very broad based and inclusive of all Australians, and
a Party that will be run by the Melbourne Club."
PL: Ok, run by the Melbourne Club. But that is just political rhetoric.
PM: No. The Melbourne Club is an attitude. It is about an attitude, it is about
the political establishment of the Victorian Liberal Party, always hankering
after control of the party again, resenting the fact that it had what they
thought was a Johnny-come-lately from NSW. The point I made was that
Mr Downer has actually gone to the Melbourne Club, Mr Wooldridge tells
us that he had to learn his fate from the head waiter, that all these heavy
weights had decided his fate, Dr Hewson's fate, in Melbourne. I made
that reference, then he said this was an unprovoked personal attack to
which then he refers to my house in Elizabeth Bay, which by the way
doesn't have scintillating harbour views, it is just an inner city terrace, and
investments I have made et cetera. I made one 22 years after I joined the
Parliament.
PL: But look, in the past..
PM: Let me just make this point, Paul. The fact of the matter is I made a
political remark about Mr Downer, and the political remark was a repeat of
the very remark you have just shown your viewers by John Hewson. Dr
John Hewson and Dr Wooldridge's fate were decided by the heavy
people. By Malcolm Fraser, by Mr Staley. First of all Mr Downer had to
do an interview with Mr Kennett, then he was taken to the Melbourne Club
and put through the paces by Mr Staley. Mr Peacock was interviewed
saying, Yes he supports Dr Hewson, the next day, denying Dr Hewson, he
climbs into a Rollsroyce with Ron Walker, the Treasurer of the Liberal
Party, and mover and shaker in the Victorian Liberal apparatus and
business establishment. They are the people who decided to make
Alexander Downer Leader of the Liberal Party. I was simply making that
point.
PL: You say the Melbourne Club is an attitude, they are his wealthy backers.
But, I mean people would say the ACTU is an attitude and they are your
wealthy backers. $ 10 million dollars at the last election.
PM: Well, he could have made that political point, but he didn't. He made a
personal attack upon me.
PL: But you have made personal attacks in the past. You never called him
Shirley Temple?
PM: I don't talk about their personal assets.
PL: Who called him Shirley Temple?
PM: Look, he has had fifty warnings from the Speaker to behave himself in
Parliament. But let me just about the Melbourne Club, Paul. It is a club
of entrenched privilege and prejudice. Half the population of this country,
women, are excluded from being members there. Mr Downer belongs to
the Adelaide Club, half the population of this country, women, are
excluded from being members there. And, I think at least one thing
should happen between now and when he stands up to lead a major party
in the Parliament next week, he should resign his position from the
Adelaide Club on the basis that in 1994, not 1984, or 1894, no leader of a
party that wants to be Prime Minister of this country should be a member
of a club that will not have women as members.
PL: So, you have put the political heat back on him. But look, that suit you're
wearing right now would feed an average, the money you spent on that
would feed a family for a couple of months. I mean this is an absurd
argument when we get down to your richer than me, and you know, you
are new money, no, I am old money.
PM: No, but that is him, that is not me. I am simply making this point, I said
that the interests of the wealthy people of the Melbourne Liberal
establishment who chose him and selected him, and shifted Andrew
Peacock and his handful of votes to make the difference. Their interests
and the interests of a boiler maker in Footscray, or a cabinet maker in
Fairfield in Sydney, or in Brisbane, are completely in contrast to one
another. They wouldn't even give them a thought over a warm gin this
crowd. And that was the point I was making. This notion that we have
gone back to a fresh start, Malcolm Fraser has never been so happy. I've
never seen Malcolm so joyous since 1983.
PL: Many of these Cabinet..
PM: He has finally got his way, he has got the Party Alexander Downer has
said ' Malcolm Fraser is a great man'. This is the man who gave us seven
years of political waste. Seven years of wasted political time in Australia's
post-war economic adjustment. What we're going back to is back to
Malcolm Fraser type policies.
PL: Many of these tradesman you evoke, these so-called ordinary Australian
battling families would like to point the finger at you and say you've given
it to them damn tough.
PM: We gave them between 1983 and 1993 1.675 million extra jobs; we gave
them an increase in household disposable income in every year that the
Government was in office.
PL: And crash landing in 1989.
PM: Well, just hang on. We gave them a health insurance system which
means that they or their families can get sick and not be afraid of it; we've
given them an aged care system and a social security system which is the
envy of any in the world; when we became the Government only 3 kids in
completed secondary school, now it is 8 in 10 we've given their
children an education.
PL: And over 900,000 unemployed right now, Prime Minister?
PM: Yes, and we've got a White Paper there, we've got 4.5 per cent growth, 2
per cent inflation. Could you imagine
PL: And business investment just gone back 5 per cent in the March quarter.
PM: I'll come to quarterly figures in a moment Paul. As you know, they dance
around all the time. Could you imagine this crowd, this new group
producing the White Paper? Could you imagine them worrying about
whether the kids under 18 are personally case managed back into
education and into work? Could you imagine them worrying about a job
compact for the long term unemployed? And yet they'll put themselves
up. This was never a contest about ideas or policies, it was only about
who could sell the Liberal party's philosophy.
PL: But isn't he selling well, he's got under you skin. You've come here, you
are on the rise?
PM: No, no, I will just bat the ball back where ever I see it. When I became
Prime Minister, I said what I would do. I sat down at the press conference
and said where I would take the country. Before I became Prime Minister,
I said that fiscal policy needed to be expanded, we had to make the
linkages into Asia, I mentioned the countries. Not one specific policy the
other night.
PL: He says he's got a document coming out in a month or two. Now, you've
got to give him a bit of time don't you?
PM: For the business community this is just going to be a horror show. This is
just going to be a blancmange. Could you image this group removing
exchange controls, floating the Australian dollar, knocking the tariff wall
over, recasting the tax system, introducing the kind of labour market
programs; the micro economic economy, water, electricity, gas, could you
imagine this coming from this group who want, what did they say their
policies are? A broad church and social stability'.
PL: Commonsense policy not bound by ideology or sectional interest'. In
other words, that's going to appeal to a lot of people.
PM: What that says is, we haven't had commonsense policy from Dr Hewson,
we are having commonsense policy from now.
PL: You said the other day that you never underestimate anybody. How do
you really estimate Downer as an opponent?
PM: I think, it is the Liberal party, I mean, for the business community and for
the broader Australian community who knows Australia must continue to
keep changing, must continue to make the break to Asia, this is a leader
who would deny the full expression of Australian sovereignty, this is a
leader who has a great question mark hanging over multicultural ism and
immigration, this is a leader who would take his party back to the policies
of Malcolm Fraser and that is basically, back to the kind of society and the
kind of attitudes which just about broke us.
PL: Well, he is doing pretty good if you look at the Saulwick poll this morning.
59 per cent of voters believe Downer will improve the Liberals chances
and they have given him a nine point lead over you as preferred Prime
Minister.
PM: And they gave him a 20 point lead over the Government. In other words
the Saulwick poll this morning gave the Coalition a 20 point lead over the
Government. This is the Government with 4 per cent economic growth, 2
per cent inflation, 250,000 jobs, a White Paper.
PL: But, it is not all first night euphoria.
PM: No, just a second, a strong Budget performance, a decade of reform and
on one nights election the Liberal party jumps 20 points in front of the
Government... Well, Paul, if you believe that poll and let me tell you
there are plenty of people in the gallery who believed Saulwick polls in
the election campaign, much to their chagrin if you believe in that you'll
believe in anything.
PL: I believe, for what it's worth, that he's going to do a lot better for the
Liberal Party, in the months ahead, than John Hewson was doing in the
months before and that that puts them ahead of you.
PM: Any change from Dr Hewson's position where he was rejected at the last
election, and his views and that negative approach he took to the job,
would be in the honeymoon though I'm not here to spoil the happy
honeymoon, Paul, I'm just here simply to make the point...
PL: Oh, is that right?
PM: I'm not here really, to spoil it. I want them to have their full enjoyment, as
long as they understand that this country is not going to go backwards to
the fifties as Mr Henderson said, to the seventies under Malcolm
Fraser and Staley, of having it run by people who don't understand the
broader society, as these Melbourne establishment people do not this
country is not going to want the country run in that way from that place
and the Government's policies of reform and change, of the White Paper,
of the Budget, of the shift into Asia, of the Republic, of all of these things,
of Mabo, this is the direction of Australia. It is not to go backwards. This
is not a fresh change, this is basically back to the past.
PL: Is it politically smart though, for you to be overseas early next month, for
about 11 days celebrating D-Day?
PM: Well, I was invited by President Mitterand of France and the British Prime
Minister and one can hardly refuse the invitation in the terms in which it
was put when we were participants in the second World War.
PL: And, finally, those investment figures, backwards five per cent in the
March quarter. That's not good.
PM: In the year to now they are on track with the Budget forecast, Paul.
PL: But, you've got to get one per cent growth this financial year. At the
moment you are running minus at 1.7 per cent so you've got to do about
2.7 per cent in the June quarter to get to that target and then you've got to
get to fourteen and a half next financial year... and, you're on target for
all of this, are you?
PM: Yes, and we've got realisation factors in there, on this data, well below the
actual outcomes in the last ten years. So, as the Treasurer said
eloquently, today, in a press statement, these numbers fall squarely into
the Budget forecast.
PL: Because, I don't need to tell you, upon that investment depends the
growth and the jobs and your whole White Paper strategy.
PK: Well, you look at the eighties changes and these are very conservative
forecasts, I think everyone has accepted that. And, as I say, they are on
track. The key point to remember, Paul, is this the average growth of
the Western world economies is one per cent this year. We're already
doing four per cent and heading to four and a half.
PL: Thanks for your time
PM: Thank you, Paul.
ends