PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING, MP
INTERVIEW WITH SARAH MACDONALD, RADIO TRIPLE J, 5 MAY 1994
E& OE PROOF COPY
SM: This is quite a major initiative done, you are addressing Australia's
biggest problems. Is it the most important policy you have ever
released?
PM: It is very hard to qualify the various statements. I mean, I think,
probably the most important things in terms of the long run future of
the Australian economy were done when I was Treasurer, and more
recently, restoring the economy to the growth with One Nation in 1992.
But this is an important statement of social policy. What we are saying
here, we are not as a Labor Government prepared to leave a body of
people 350-400,000 long term jemlyedpeople carry the brunt of
economic change and economic adjustment.
SM: When we look at people who are under 18 and who haven't got a job
under this scheme, they will now get a new allowance instead of the
dole, but it will be about the same amount of money. What's the point?
PM: Well, the thing is, we will now case manage, that's personally, every
young person under 18 who is unemployed. So, every young person
who is under 18 and unemployed will have a relationship with a case
manager, who will get to understand their personality, their educational
attainment's, their work experience, their aptitude, what things they
might be able to do, what training might be able to be given to them,
what job placement might be able to be had for them, rather than being
part of simply a relatively rigid national system of management of
unemployment, it will be this personalised basis. And we think that
because the economy has changed so much in the last ten years that
a lot of the jobs that might have been available, say then, and ten
years before that, for young people are simply not there. So, they
have to be trained and they have to be managed.
SM: Well, on this training allowance it will be about $ 120.00 a week, it will
depend on your parents income, but it won't change whether you are
doing training or not. How do you think young people are going to go
to work every day, a training place every day, clothe themselves and
buy lunch on that sort of money?
PM: Well, there are two things we are talking about here. We are talking
about the youth training initiative, which is picking up unemployed
people undeF1 8' nd giving them base management, training and a job
placement, and there is the traineeships for people who are in work,
and who are doing training. And as you know, the Government
announced yesterday that it will be developing a training wage. The
training wage will be well, by a very big margin, above $ 125.00 a
week. Now, that training wage will provide on-the-job training and it
will be, I think, a great advance. That is, a single rate across all
industries, not just a multiplicity of training rates, but a single rate
across all industries for people who are in training.
SM: Now, if people are in training and they drop out they will lose that
wage. Are you worried that employers will exploit them knowing that
they can't leave?
PM: No, I think the retention rates we are seeing with these labour market
programs is quite high, and with case management it will get higher.
That is, a greater proportion of people remain employed, and their self
esteem goes up, and their feeling about themselves improves, and
their capacity improves, and their value to an employer improves. The
alternative is to take the heartless view that you see from some of
these right wing people, say, " forget them, forget them, if they are not
good enough to go through the school system and into university or
TAFE, forget them."
SM: At the end of a training period you are giving an employer a bit of a
lurk, $ 500.00 if they keep the person on. Do you think that will be
enough? I mean, how can you ensure that such programs mean real
jobs and real careers at the end of training?
PM: The real jobs don't come out, what you call real jobs this package is
about training people who are disadvantaged who have been
unemployed. It is not of its essence a job creation package, it is not
supposed to be.
SM: So you are relying on the economic recovery to find the jobs. When
do you think that will happen, though?
PM: Well there is a quarter of a million come through this year. A quarter
of a million in the last 12 months.
SM: How much choice will people have in this individual case management
when they are put on a training program? Say if a young person wants
to manage a rock band, instead of being trained in tourism, how much
choice will they get?
PM: Well, it depends what their aptitude is, and what their interests are. I
think that a case manager may respond well to somebody who has got
some real musical capacity and some real management ability. But
they won't respond well to somebody who wants to be a rock manager,
but doesn't understand the music or the management, or doesn't have,
seemingly, enough of an educational standard to be able to do it. So,
there is in all these things, and particularly the job compact for those
unemployed 18 months or more, there will be a great effort by the
Government and the Commonwealth to case manage people, to give
them training and a job subsidy and work experience. But there is a
reciprocal obligation to take any reasonable job offer.
SM: Well, what sort of reasonable job offer would that be, though? If it was
in something they are totally not interested in, would they not have to
do it?
PM: They would have to do it.
SM: They would.
PM: They would. Otherwise we would be saying, well look, we will carry
you financially while you decide whether you will do something or not.
And remember here there is going to be a big effort in case
management. The subsidies for these people will be up to $ 260.00 a
week if they are unemployed for three years, if they are unemployed
for over 18 months, over a year, that is $ 230.00 a week. Plus the
costs of a training place in TAFE, it is a big public expense, and
therefore, I think, people have got to say, " ok I will take what I can do,
and what the case manager works out with me." It depends on the
relationship that the person is going to develop with the case manager
as well.
SM: When young people and the long term unemployed are in training they
won't show up in the unemployment figures. I mean, forgive me for
being a bit cynical, but they will make the figures nice and low for the
next election, won't it?
PM: Well I won't forgive you for being cynical. Because if you think the
Government is taking on this sort of work, have you see this White
Paper..
SM: Yes, I have.
PM: Have you seen the work in it? I mean, it was an enormous amount of
ministerial time and effort in this. This was something that I made a
commitment to in the last election campaign. The fact is, this
Government will not accept the notion that comes from the Liberal
Party and others that what we ought to have is basically a low rent, low
wage society for people on the outer, and if you are really on the outer,
too bad for you. It is only the achievers who get a crack at the national
cake. That sort of society breeds all sorts of fractures in social
cohesion and discontent and alienation, and it is simply unacceptable.
That is why the Government is doing this. It is not about the
unemployment numbers per se. But can I just say earlier, like, you
were seeming to cast a doubt upon the fact that there won't be enough
jobs in the economy growing. I will just remind you that between 1983
and 1993 we had, in this economy, 2 million job growth. Ten years
ago, eleven years ago when I was first sworn in as Treasurer we had a
labour market of 6 million people. That is 8 million people today.
Even with the unemployment we still created 2 million and hung onto
them. So, already in this year we have seen 250,000 job growth. The
economy is growing at 4 per cent, we are growing as fast, just about,
as any other western country in the world. So basically the aggregate
employment growth will be there, but the point of this policy is to make
sure that everyone gets a crack at the stream of jobs.
SM: And they are ready for those new jobs. Well, as the man in charge of
the economy, where do you think those new jobs are? If you were
looking for a job now and you had just left school, where would you be
going?
PM: The kind of jobs that were available when I was a teenager are not
around now, because they have mostly been taken up by data
processing equipment, and by fax transmission. I mean, all those
transmission jobs which were around in the banking system, in the
public service, in the 1960s, they are not there today, in retailing, they
are not there today.
SM: Which jobs are there today?
PM: Trained jobs are there today. People with skills are there today. I
mean, you look at the 1980s, we had no pfo6blem taking up large
bodies of young people who were trained, but we will have problems
taking up people who are untrained. And that is the point of this
policy, we are saying, for those who wish to be in structured training,
there is the traineeships and the training wage, and for those who are
already, say, 16-19 who are unemployed there is a youth training
initiative which will pick them up and case manage each one. So, we
are saying that the period 15-19 should be a period of vocational
preparation. That nobody should believe that you leave school at
or 16 and you go out there and try and get a low paid job. You stay in
school or you stay in structured training until you are in a position to
take a job which this economy will now offer you.
SM: I was just wondering if you could give us, perhaps, a bit of a hint about
where you think most of those jobs are going to be, though, so people
can get themselves ready if they are still at school?
PM: 80 per cent of Australia's national production is in the service sector of
the economy. What is happening as Australia gets larger and
wealthier, we are seeing greater sophistication in services, we are
seeing it every day of the week
SM: Ok, the service industries. Thank you very much for your time to
Prime Minister, good to talk to you.
PM: Pleasure.