TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON.
P J KEATING, M. P.
ALP NATIONAL EXECUTI VE MEETING, CANBERRA
26 NOVEMBER, 1993
J So, how do you respond to Conrad Black, Primc Minister?
PM: Well, I responded very well to the last sentence of his piece where he said, " It
will be the Prime Minister's accusers who will end up in trouble here." That's
what he said. See, the clear point in all of this.... there are only two simple
points in this: the first, that the Government has limited Mr Black's ownership
of John Fairfax and Sons to 25 percent, and it did so fouir onths after these
conversations. The other key point is that Mr Black has said that Dr Hewson
promised him unlimited stock in John Fairfax and Sons, that he would remove
restraints on ownership. So, therefore, it is the Government which has said
percent and no further-, it is the Opposition who said, " You can have it. A
foreigner can take control of our major broadsheet newspapers." It's therefore
Dr Ilewson who has the explaining to do and that's why he's now backsliding
on the Senate committee.
J: But how do you explain the discrepancy between your version of the
conversation and Mr Black's?
PM: Well, I explain it by the statement. The Cabinet considered the Treasurer's
submission for 25 percent and put out a statement in April saying the Cabinet
considered the foreign investment questions of ownership of mass circulation
newspapers and decided that the maximum should be 25. percent.
J: Was there any discussion at all of 35 percent?
PM-Yes. From Mr Black.
J: In Cabinet?
PM: No, no. Not in Cabinet, no, no. Mr Black comes into Australia about every
four months, seeks to see me and, I'm sure, the Leader of the Opposition and
others and it's about, basically, getting his stock up. Now, John Hewson
offered him 100 percent. In fact, I attended a lunch of Fairfax executives
where Mr Mulholland was the host and where there was Mike Steketee,
Ross Gittens and others before Christmas. And I told that lunch that Mr
Black had told me that John Hewson would let him go to 100 percent.
Now, if John Hew son doesn't appear before a Senate Comnittee, if Senator
Alston can't persuade Senator Kernot to remove the referen-ce to him, Dr
J-ewson, in the terms of reference, the likelihood is that Dr Hewson won't
appear. And if he doesn't appear it will be because he would fear needing to
perjure himself before the committee where Mr Black has said he's quite happy
to appear.
J: Why do you think Mr Black is claiming that you offered to consider
percent, then?
PM: Well, I don't know and people have fuizzy recollections of these conversations.
I mean, I'e been Prime Minister for nearly two years and Treasurer for nine.-
I've collected conversations with media proprietors like other people collect
stamps. I remember them very well. And I know exactly what I say and
what I said I'd consider we did consider, and the Government considered it
with complete probity at Cabinet level, on a submission by the Treasurer, made
a decision and announced it.
J: Prime Minister, yesterday you were able to use Mr Black's words to
devastating effect against Dr Hewson. Doesn't today's development make Mr
Black, at best, an unreliable witness?
PM: No, no. He said, let me read the part from his book. Mr Black said, " Te
Leader of the Opposition had already promised that if he was elected that he
would remove restraints on our ownership." See, when Dr Hewson says to
you. " We didn't nominate any particular level," he must think you are complete
fools. By not nominating a level he has told Mr Black there is no level. In
other words it's an unconditional decision to let Mr Black go to whatever
control he wishes of John Fairfax and Sons. Now, the Government's position is
on the record and clear. . So there can be no debate about this. We're at
percent, Dr Hewson's up to 100 percent with no specific limit. He said he was
quite relaxed remember Mr Black said, " In agreed phraseology," he and Dr
Hewson agreed what they'd say a fter the meeting and the term was ' quite
relaxed' the Leader of the Opposition was quite relaxed.
You sec, the context you've got to see all of this in is before the last election
where the Leader or the Opposition arrogantly believed he was already Prime
Minister and he's sitting in court receiving foreign visitors, including Mr
Black and swanning around the business community just seeing who he
would entertain or who would entertain him. And Mr Black has said, " Look,
we want control of John Fairfax and Sons and we want you to comply in that,"
and he has said, " Look, I'm very relaxed about that. There's no upper limit as
far as rm concerned." Now, when Mr Black saw me he said, " Dr Hewson's
offiered us virtually unlimited control of the stock," and 1 said, " What, up to
100 percent?" He said, ' Well, up to 100 percent but I don't need 100 percent.
Just over 50 percent will be enough for me, to get control. Now, what about
the Governmnent?" And I said, " Well, just hang on, just step back here. The
Government's got national interest questions and we've always taken the view
that these papers should be controlled by Australians. Now, I accept the fact
that you've got difficulties running the papers at 14.9 percent and well consider
a request for 25 percent." I mean, the Government's position has been
conducted with complete probity whereas Dr Hewson has basically, has just
obviously said, to a foreigner, " L~ ook, you can have control of the Age and the
Sydney Morning Herald and I'm very relaxed about it."
J: So, you're asking people to believe what Conrad Black says about Dr Hewson
but not believe what he says about you?
PM-: No, but I ask you to believe what he also says about me. He says the Prime
Minister's accusers will find, in the end, they are the ones in difficulty.
1: Have Mr Black's comments been unhelpful? is comments published this
morning?
PM. I'm sure they're not unhelpfual to you.
Ends.