NINE NETWOIRK AUSTRALIA LIMI'I: ED
A C. N. 009 071 167
SUITE 114 PRISS GALLERY PARLIAMENT HOUSE
CANDEkRA A. C. T. 2600 AUSTRALIA
TELEPHONF.: ( nW) 273 3300 FACSIMILE: ( 06) 273 3097
SUNDAY092026-09-93
INTV Prime Minister Keating
Compere Jim Waley:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes: Prime Minister Keating flew back into Canberra early
this morning, after a two week trip to the US, Britain,
Ireland and France. His last stop, Monte Carlo, to
bolster our Olympic bid.
Before leaving there, hlie gave his first comprehensive
interview on what's been an unusually productive
fortnight for a travelling Australian leader.
Paul Keating is talking with SUNDAY's Political Editor,
Laurie Oakes.
Mr Keating, welcome to SUNDAY.
Good, Laurie.
Winning the 2000 Olympics for Sydney is a big finish to
an overseas trip for a Prime Minister. But now the
excitement's abated a bit, I mean, can we afford it?
T00ON St7: 8 26' d@ S'LZ_
WIN TV
Subject:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: We can more than afford it. I think it's a substantial
international endorsement of what we've become as a
nation. Because I think were we not as we are, and as
we're going to be that is an externally oriented
country, which has got a real scnse of democracy and
good values we wouldn't have won this decision.
So, I think, in terms of the directions which Australia's
been going in the last ten years, the Olympic, the TOC
decision, in a sense, endorses those directions.
But can you guarantee that ordinary taxpayers won't
have to dig deeper into their pockets?
I think on the net balance of things, probably in
economic terms, Australia will end up in front. The key
point is it will show the world Australia as we now are,
as a multi-cultural country, a successful independent
country. And I think by then, this is seven years away,
we will be much more part of the Pacific, the Asia
Pacific, and we'll be I think, even more clear about our
identity than we are this very week.
Now, obviously, this will lead to some upsurge of
nationalism patriotism, I suppose. Do you think that
will give the republican movement a kick along?
I think it will, probably, yes I think it will. And I
think it deserves to, because I think that it is important
2
/ Z0Od TOO* ON St7: 8 i6* dGS*!
that when the world conmes to see us, as i t will in such a
concentrated way, we're there, you know, having a
much clearer idea about ourselves, you know, and more
confidence in ourselves.
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes-
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: Could we have a President by then?
That's a possibility, it is. Somecbody's got to open the
Games. It's normally the Head of State. I think the
world would wonder, would they not, if Australia's
Gaines are opened by the Constitutional head of another
nation. The question of Mabo and reconciliation between
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
presumably the Olympics have a bearing on that, too?
I think they have a very large bearing.
But can you get there? You've got the Deputy
Opposition Leader, the Deputy Coalition Leader,
Tim Fischer, talking about Aborigines being ungrateful
for the money that's spent on them. I mean, that's the
sort of thing the world will look at, I would have
thought, when the Games are on.
I don't think the IOC would have endorsed that view,
you see, that's the point. I think a lot of politicians in
Australia are going to have to scrub up their: views.
3
TOOO0N StV2? 26* dGS
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: And if the world's actually invested in Australia and
this is a good decision by the IOC, an important
international decision. Because there was a big contest
here between China and Australia, and it. was the values
of Australia which carried the day. In the end it was the
values of Australia which carried the day. If those
values are compromised by the sort of paltry views of
some people in the political system, that will not be
good for us.
There are political implications, aren't there. I know
that the New South Wales Labor Party is concerned that
John Fahey will call an election on the strength of the
Olympic decision. Does that worry you?
Well, I don't think, I think John Fahey has, frankly,
more sense than to try and exploit this decision in a
personal way. This was a group effort. Laurie, the
thing about it was it should inject a lot of confidence
in the people. It's one thing that the Government, me
and others, saying look, we're going quite well, we've a
very large leap in terms of our economny, we've made a
huge leap into Asia, we're now trying to sort of APEC,
we're trying to sort out our place in the world and
there's a lot of pessimism in Australia. I think this
decision should provide a basis for confidence for
people. We're actually doing better than many people
think we are. 4
TOODON SV: 8 26, dasU ] J31
Laurie Oakes:
Paul K~ eating: Well, related to that, I guess, the running theme of your
trip in Washington, London, Ireland and France was
trade the GATT negotiations your concern about
European attempts to breach the Blair House Agreement.
Do you think you got anywhere?
I think so. One thing is clear, that there's no doubt, I
mean, the centrepiece of my visit was the meeting with
President Clinton. That went well in my terms I
hope, and I think, in his. And that it wasn't about,
simply about reaffirmation of our defence links, and the
normal things we talk about. What was high on the US
agenda that week I was there was trade, which was high
on our agenda, too. And we've agreed now to kick
APEC along that's Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation
with a meeting that President Clinton is
sponsoring in November in Seattle. And at that meeting
I should hope that we give much more form and
substance to APEC.
Now, that is, in a sense, Australia's bolt-hole. That is
to get this organisation together, to put Australia at a
very large table for the first time.
What we then want to do is overlay that with the GATT'
the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs, the socalled
Uruguay Round. Now, it is stalling at the
moment because of Frcnch intransigence over the Blair
House Accord, which was an agreemenit freely entered
PSO'd TOO* ON St7: S œ 6~ d2aS* LJ.,-131
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes: between the European Community and United States.
We say the Blair House shouldn't be touched. Special
Trade Representative Cantor says the Blair House
Accord shouldn't be touched, and so does the President.
Now, you seemed to strike a fairly quick rapport with
Bill Clinton. Is it now the sort of relationship where
you feel you can pick up the phone whenever you want
to? Are you likely to do that?
I could he invited me to do that, and I could do that.
Look, I think Americans have fallen on their fret with
Bill Clinton. I think he's a young, fresh, altruistic,
engaging person, and you can see the any
conversation, the detail that he has in his mind on issues
I mean, in our system Ministers are expcctcd to carry
detail in their heads. In the American system this has
not always been a requirement of US Presidents but
he has it, he can talk about fiscal policy, tax policy,
health policy, trade policy. I mean, he's the genuine
article, and I think that we're very lucky that the United
States is led by a person who comprehends these big
problems and trying to marry the big international
responsibilities of the United States on to the domestic
agenda of growth and jobs.
You're seeing him again in Seattle in November. Are
you going to formally invite him to Australia?
TOO* ON SV: S 26* d9S*,
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: I will. I think that's the time to do it. It didn't on this
occasion, because I think it was a get-to-know-you
meeting, arnd I'll be seeing him soon, and I'll be
speaking to him in the meantime. anyway.
Do you think he'll come?
H-e might. I think he might.
Prime Minister, we'll take a break there be back in a
moment.
Prime Minister, you made a very brief visit to France,
really to lay a wreath and remember our World War I
dead but that turned into a trade matter, too. You
attacked the French there, I suppose almost using dead
dig gers as bargaining chips. What made you so angry
when you got to Velarise Breteneau(?)?
Well, you've got to say to yourself, what does it mean?
I mean, here's a hundred odd thousand young
Australians went from one side of the world to the
other, half of them left their lives behind in defence of
France, French liberty and values.
And, you know, I was there with the names of eleven
thousand Australian service mnen and women engraved
on the wall of that place, Velarise Breteneau, and yet in
Paris on a matter which is about international decency
7
TOO* ON SV: 8 œ 6* daS, 2 1331
and fair play, which does affect Australia materially,
you're flat out getting a point of view registered.
So you've got to say to yourself what does this mean? I
mean, we were there twice. The actual -the
monument was all, the monument which was built in the
early 1 920s after the first World War was all pock
marked with bullet holes from the second World War,
where we were again.
And you've got to say to yourself, well do we rank at
all with these characters? I mean, that is, did it mean
anything to them? Because what you've got we're
not asking, they're saying, oh, we can't affect the
French farm sector. But we've had to make decisions
about tariffs. We've made decisions which affect our
garment industry and our textile industry and footwear
industries, arnd our manufacturing industries. We've
done what's best for Australia, and we've played our
role as international citizens. But this dog-in-the-manger
attitude which France persists in-
Laurie Oakes: They've protested to you, haven't they, about your
comments?
Paul Keating: Oh, no they gave some churlish off-hand remark by
some Deputy Minister. I mean, I've stung them where
it " matters, and that is to say, look, you've got
responsibilities, and we're making you face the fact that
/ S0* d TO000N SV: S 2œ 6' d, 3SZ
if the Round fails, you will wear the responsibility for
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: Could I ask you about your trip to Balmoral I know
you don't want to say any more about tile meeting with
the Queen than-
Laurie, I don't want to say because, not because I want
to be secretive and evasive. But it is at convention, and
an important one, which the Queen has insisted on
always, that the details of the meeting remain private to
her and the person she's meeting.
Now, she did break that convention by authorising me to
make that statement, which was a very important one,
and I can talk about that.
Well, part of that statement was you said the Queen had
said that she would abide by the inaudible for
Australian Ministers and the decision of the Australian
people. But you'd expect a Constitutional Monarch to
say exactly that, wouldn't you?
Well, yes but she didn't need to authorise me to say
it. I mean,, it could have been that the view from the
Palace was that she would, she would be advised at
least, the Queen would be advised at least to resist such
a change. And being perfectly proper, which I've
always believed the Queen to he, she not only forth-
.9
1000ON S17: 8 26* d@ S
rightly met that position, but auithorised that I should say
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes: So was she declaring herself a neutral player in this? Is
that how you see. it?
Essentially, what she's authorised me to say is this was
matter for Australians, for Australians to decide, and
that she should abide with any decision made by the
Australian people.
Can I put to you some of the things that British
newspapers reported newspapers that claim good
Palace sources, A whole serics of them. claim that when
it came to the point of telling the Queen about your
republican plans you almost bottled it. In other words
you almost froze up and weren't game.
Now let's not underestimate the gravity of this meeting
and the gravity with which the Queen's staff would
have approached, and did approach this meeting. There
would be no leaks from this meeting.
Now, that's not an accurate reflection of the meeting.
The meeting was cordial, and warm, and utterly
discursive on the substantive issues which took, I think,
seventy five minutes.
Did you almost bottle it?
/ OTd T000N SV: S6' das> I2 : 11331
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: Well, I said to you it's not an accurate reflection of the
meeting. No, I didn't. I put, as I said before the trip,
my views, courteously, informatively and forth-rightly
and I hope for Her Majesty, helpfully.
They also claim, the British press also claim that you
had a chilly reception that you had to stand outside in
the cold at a barbeque, and got a royal cold shoulder.
I can say, I'm entitled say and I'm sure she should want
me to say that it couldn't have been a warmer meeting.
It couldn't have been a warmer reception in a personal.
family way.
Could I ask you, just we before we finish, about some
domestic issues. You're going back now to, I suppose,
the old problems that you left, some of which are worse.
What about the John Dawkins issue? I mean, is he
showing the strain of this budget battle?
This Government's directions are right, and they have
been right, and we've got to pull those threads together,
and I'm going to call the Cabinet together on Monday
morning to tell them about the trip. And at that meeting
we will have a discussion then also about our budgetary
position, and the budget.
Now, the budget's sense is right. It's aggiegates are
right. We've had a problem with the detail, but the time
11
/ TT* d TOO* ON S7: S 16d@ S 131
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: has come, I think, for everybody to pass the budget and
for the country to get on with it, because we've got so
many other big things to do.
Now, I think the Treasurer has, not unnaturally, been
left to his own devices while I've been away, to fend off
discussion and argument about the budget, including
dealing with the Independents.
And he felt pretty lonely, I would say.
I've spoken to him a couple of times on the visit, and
not unnaturally in this circumstances because what's
happened here is the Opposition have broken the
convention by not passing the Government's Financial
legislation in the Senate.
B3ut the Treasurer has looked pretty brittle, hasn't he?
publicly talking about resignation. I mean, presumably
he didn't-
Well, If think he was sort of, perhaps, waxing a bit
lyrical about that, but, I mean, we've all done that. from
time to time. This is not a cardinal sin.
Did he talk about resigning about the budget, and again
on the phone with you the other day?
No, no, no -he hasn't, no.
12
Td 1000ON St7: 8 16* d@ S131
L. a urie Oakes:
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating-.
Laurie Oakes: When you call Cabinet together on Monday, will they
bet getting some sort of pep talk from you about the
need now to-
Well, I think, I think, Laurie-
-show more unity, I suppose?
Well, we've invested a lot of time in Mabo, which is
important, and you can see the importance with the
Olympic decision if for no other reason. That is,
beyond the great central reason of reconciliation and
access to land and decency in public decision making in
respcct of Aboriginals. Apart from that, just in termis of
the Olympics, how important that's been. We've
invested a lot of time in that, because Maho is a
revolutionary change in land management and social
justice questions.
But that's now coming together in that legislation. The
budget aggregates are right the directions are right
the budget deficit should conie down. And that's been
presented, and we've trimmed the budget up) in certain
respects without changing its aggregates substantially.
So, yes, we've had a few problems with those, but
they're going into place.
You're looking a bit ragged, aren't you, as a
VT/ 2Pd TOO* ON St7: S 26-daS 13311
Paul Keating:
Laurie Oakes:
Paul Keating: Government and won't that continue while the Senate
is doing what it's doing? Presumably it's not just a
budget problem? They're going to look at all your
major legislation.
Well, I think, providing the Government's convinced of
its policy directions and satisfied with its work, we'll
live with the Senate, and we'll stare the Senate down,
and we'll win the public argument. I mean, that's the
key point.
Prime Minister, thank you very much.
Thank you, Laurie.
ENDS* For private research only. Whilst every effort is made to ensure accuracy for the benefit of our clients,
no legal or other responsibility is taken for errors and omissions.
Transcript by MEDIA MONITORS ACT PTY LTD 14
t71/ Vt * d TOO* ON SV: S 26 d@ S :-113311