,~ tT BY: ~ TU'O~ K 1~~ 1 I J I d*. C4 IL \ Vrq-
MEET THE PRESS
Network Tfn, Suuday October 25,
GUEST: The Prime MInister, Hr Paul KeatinR
PRESENTER: PANEL: David Johnston
Paul Ilongiorno
Amanda Bucklcy
Max Suich
Please Lccl free to extraCL whatever maerial Is appropriate,
acknuwladging MEET THE PRESS, NETWORK TEN.
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Across the nation, welcome to MEET THE PRESS. Good evening,
I'm David Johnston.
Tonight our first guest. on ME~ ET THE PRV.. SS is Australito'G preMicer
citizen, the Prime Minister, Paul Kettig.
Mr Keating thank you for join-Ing us tonight.
PK: CVood daiy, nice to be here on this premlier occas4' ion.
WJ Patul Yeatina hats spent L. he lasL few days i. n Far North Queensland.
Some say con~ idering his options for the timing of the -forthcoming
Federal El ectioni.
The government mnust go to the polls in the next few months,
Experts very in their second guesses of the P~ rimne Ministers
agendki ywhere from Lhe last. week of November to March.
Paul Keating has been a PiVotal element in the Labor party ' a
historic four terms in office. Atid w.' 11 speak to him Lotight
about his bid for a fifth Labor go~ vernment.
But first a ~ 1look at Prime Minister Keting's first year
in the 1. odse.
TAKE VTR
DJ: Also joining us tonight three of the most respected journalists
in the country. First. Paul Bongiorno, Network Ten's Bureau
Chief in Canberra. Amanda Buckley, / he X ief of ,; he Daily
, role Urnph / Mirr o ' Vreau in Federal Parliamnt, and Max Suich,
forme' 4 Afief Aditoriai $ oacutivo at John Fairfax andJ Sons, now
the editor of the Independent Monthly Newspaper.
Good Evoning. and welcome to you all.
ALL: Thanks.
DJ: Now first of all Mr Keating, Im going to ask you about the state
of the nation to start this discussion, but you've Just come
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2 among other things, the election date. Have you made up your mind?
PK; Well I wasnt considering it at all.
DJ: Not once? You didn't think about it? Not once?
PKt I think the uh, I think the public expect to get value from
Paclaumonts. and this parliament has got a way to run yet.
DJ: When do you think you'll go, sooner or later?
PK: Vell, as I say, they expect value and value in their terms is
to go later.
DJ: So that means next year?
Pt: That's when I'm sure most Australians would wait amid believe.
ta/
PB: These bLter polls aren t tempting you?
PK: No, I mean in this system the Prime Mini. ster does have a
Is perogative of deciding when the election istbut Cgain, I think
from our point of view the progress which is being made now
on the economic front is important and keeping it going is
important no'just to the government but to the nation at large.
DJ: Well now itsa six years and six months since you made Banana
Republic commepn and you've been saying all this year the
recovery is under way uouple of weeks ago you said the recession
was well over. And yet we still see a struggln to reach that
three per cent growth in the economy. So what do you think
the state of the nation is today in October, 1992, ond,
economically, and specifically in terms of those intangibles
you once spoke about: npirit, hope and purpose.
PK: Oh well I think in terms of uh, hope and purpose, I'll come to
spirit in a momenL, in terms of hope and purpose Australia is
nowi an open trading economy. It was not that a decade ago.
Australia can now be confident that it can trade its way competitively
in the world, that ovnr the longer haul employ its
people, lift its living standards, and tako its place in the
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3 community of trading nations. This was not its3 Position a decade
ago. You know I Aaid re~ cently, Australia's got its future back
and it has got its future back. By the early 1980' s. Australia
waa basically a minor qqilrry aind the things we produced the
rest of the wiorld was paying us much less for. That's all1
changed. This~ year we ' re exporting nearly 25 per cent of all.
we produce, A. decade ago it was 14 per-cent. The difference
is a world of difference. We are now exporting more elaboratly
transformed manirarture. 9, or manufa~ ctured goods, than this year
minins or mineral orpa. I tmea n, this is a major transformation.
And we're now investing in our Sroatcst reSOurce, our people.
By keeping kids on RchooI takinR them through tertiary and
vocational eduCaLioli. building product innovation, that is doing
all the clever things wo should have been doing 20 Years ago.
MS: Prime Minister, can I' take you up on getting our future back,
that's an Important print. Profesor B~ ob Gregory whom you know.
in the who is on the Reserve Beink board. said last week
that Austra~ lia probably wouldn't have anh unemployment rate below
seven percent by the end of Lhis decade, that is by M99. He's
not aloae ill-Litat thought. Tf we have that level of long term
unemployment in fact lastlflR over 8 to 10 yearL, we'Ire going to
have a breakdown in our social fabric. We haven't go0t our
future ha-. k in t-hat Sense. And whntever government comes to
power nakxL year is going to have Lo look at more than training
it's going to hAvP. to do something about the social fabri~ c.
What are you going to do?
PKi Well Max, when T say abouit our future, i~ t means LhaL Lhere is
a 2enario for Australia whici gives it a place in the world.
In othe~ r words. when People Ar* e reeling off the names of other
countrien with resources and potential, but who never mnde it
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4 were it not for the 80' s changes, Australia would have been
among them.
MS: Society is in danger isn't it?
PK: No. Yes, but now it will never be among them. I mean its made
thm great leap. The great change, and that's what I mean about
its future. But is that a commenLry on the fact that we don't
have problems, well of course we have problems, and our biggest
single problem is unemployment. And its the one which I've
devoLed myself greatest to in the period I've been Prime Minister.
The/ abour market was the thing I devoted myself to in all the
years I was Treasurer. We had phenomenal rates of employment
growth. The Australian labour market today is 26 per cent
larger than it was in 1983.
MS: Gregory says we haven't constructed a new job since ' 81 if you
take out the jobs which were provided to make up for the
immigrantiLs thaL were arriving and he also soys and I think
pretty well everyone in the government and the RBA, the Reserve
Bank, would agree that we are not going to gel anywhere
close to anything le. ss i. han 700,000 unemployed by the end of
the decade.
PK: Well we started off with a labour market of six million in 1983,
that's today 7.6 million, Urn, when we have that phenomenal rate
of employment Lthrough the ' 80' s, but a much, much greater level
of participation in the workforce, particularly amongst womena
the lowest we ever Rot unemployment to by the late ' 80' s was
I just under six percent. Now I think what this means is an
economy in transition. One that is changing its structure,
where people are being structurally unomployed. As the industries
change beneath their feet. As they now have to retrain themselves
we arc going to have a tranaienL structural pool of
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MS: Good news.
PK: Now Bernie Fraser made. the point, the Governor of the everiL
bank, laet week he thought that was probably about six per
cent. He may be right, it's certainly norzero. If we look
at the ' 80' s experience, its about six percent so it means
that the cyclical, the c~ ye of unemployment, the one we're
living through now, is probably four Lo five per cent as points,
and I believe we can get that down.
DJ: Mr eanting, we'll just take a break. Our guest tonight, the Aust
Prime Minister, Paul Keating.
SEGMENT 2
DJ: Welcome back to MEET THE PRESS, tonicht our guest is the Prime
Minister.
AB: Mr Koating, when the election is finally called will you follow
Lhe American model and debate your opponent, John Hewson, on
television.
PK: Well I debate hii every other day Amanda, why not then?
AB: But will you hold a big public debate?
PK: Oh, 1 don't think I have any problem rising to that challeige.
DJ: Do you sn debates, television debates particularly, becoming
a part of campaigns, a generic part of campaigns?
PK; Oh, yes, but I mean we have debhates every day of the week
when the house sits so this is noi for me would not be for
mo on unusual thing to do.
DJ: Mr Hewson'. A challenged you to that debate, will you?
PK" Good Old John. Good vo him. Good on him.
DJ: Yes or no?
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6 PK: I'll be there.
AB: So that's a yes. you'l be thore, will it be only one?
PK: Of course I'll be thero, with bells on.
AB: Good. Only be the one?
PB: He's actually calling for a series. He'd liko one on the economy,
the future and unemployment.
. Pr: Yeh, Yeh, and he may get one. He may get a series, but I won't
be giving him a leg up so I'll he dectding about the formats
later.
MS: Did you see the American debates?
PJK: Only one.
MS: They were very important I think cause they touched on one of
the things I think the eltchaot ( 4q/ about, which is that
they really don't want to vote for either Paul Keating or
John Iewson. In the U. S. that was the same and those debates
gave you a senise of character.
PK: Well I think, I think, exposition, public exposition of the
issues is terribly important, and all of us who ate proctitioners
know its very hard to set the thread of the argument across.
YOu can get the knots across, but not the thread. Any forum
that gives you that opportunity, which is well watchel to put
some continuity to an argument, um will matter, because a lot
of the transmission of news is by way of television news grabs
which are themselves just a condensation of what is said.
Denying the public a real chmnee to understand the issues. So
I mean from my point of view the greater the exposition of the
issues the better. Pa iLcularly in this election.
AB: So
PK: Particularly in this election which where I agree with the leader
of the opposition, he said it will be the moat important election
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7 since the war. I think it will/ h. This has been said in the
past. But I think this time its true, because there'll be
stark difference between the parties, betwoen a policy oFinclusion,
which we havA, where everybody's part of Australia
and its change, and a policy of looking after yourself.
AB: And it'll be taxation and industrial relations you said
before will be the most importatnt issues, do you stick by that?
PK: THey will he among them, but I think Australia's identity, its
culture, its capacity to work as one nation will be amongst the
other issues as well. As well as those proposals being put by
the opAstion.
PB: Prime Minister,
DJ: People also make judgements on character on those debates too,
do you think, and its often said you're a far nicer bloke off
television and out of the house, than you are when you're seen
on television.
PK: Well we're all victims of the 30 second grab I think.
DJ: So a long debate then is going to reveal more of your real
charecterdo you think?
PK: Well I think more of about what you stand for and why you do
things. Um, you know our first question was about, you know
Australia's lung run future, and you know I'm sure we are yet
to adequately communidcto the fact that Australia's prospects
now are vastly different than a d'cade ago. Now many people
know about that, some people assume that, some people feel that.
But not everyhody knows that, I mean that's important.
MS; Do you think the electurate like thle Lhoice between you and
Hewson, do you think they'd prefer another two?
PK: well I don't think they've Pver liked the choices that much,
I meant
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8 AB: But you' re not very popular out there aire you?
PK: Oh, I'm doing alright Amanda, don't me off don't-rL& 4e(
m~ e down.
AE: but they do think that, they think you're tough, that yO'v
biff people, that youtre savage. you have a poor profile,
particularly with women vocers. W4hy is~ this do you think?
P K I don't, T don't even know LhdL LiaL ' s correct, I mean the
L,% bor Party has not only ZA one occasion in the last twenty
-: ears have we had as many women voting f~ or us as men. So
whothor it'sq aboutt me or its a p~ irLy sit., ition. T don't know.
OJ: Dlc, you think you appeal to women?
PIZ: Jotl I mean aga i n, one can onl y go on the data T have cerrainly
p'~ ersued issues of great advantage to women in the years I
w~ as Treasurer. Nearly threeo quar-ters of Llae j we created
over a million and a half of them went to women.
DJ: That'-, not really what r meant. When Bob Hawke was Prime
MIinster, it was said that: he h~ d m, grra. deal of sex appeal.
ror women. D) o you hnve sex appeal?
P y I'll leave that to roske other makc judgement. Y'ou con't uñ sk
me about those things.
L) J: '^ hy not'?
PX: Oh well, because I don't think I can say.
DJ: It's obvioue
PK, I don't know how I can help you.
DJ; W. ell are you sexier than John 11ew. son?
P Ha, Ha
DJ: And what do you think of his image for ladies?
PK; Oh well. that's for others to judge, not me. I think, look
its very hard to change a country from rhe inside out,
usieu gc. t tu hopi in there aind make the changes. In the 19650' s
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9 I was the Treasurer, I hopped in Lhere. Uh, unapolisetically
I wen ther and dfid whkt a caneration of politicians shirked.
All the hard decisions of openina the place up. And that's
earned me, a few~ brick bats, hut: its gotten Me a tot of friends
as well
P~ q: YOU ODVI. OWuLy think its important to call John Hewqon a ferfa)
asbacus or n, affab~ c, an a filing c.-ihtnct. or You wouldn't bd
i r. Do you feel that you' re n contorpoint with the L-lecLOrate
thore. Bob Carr for eXample laSi wee felt that people want
to hcar politicians debating the issues and being lesN' personal.
PlC: Oh. but you've got. to understand what perbonal mcans. Talking
about your familt. q personal. ' ralkifig about your family affairs
is personal. I'va never done that. Talking about the ferial
abacus is a pnlittcRl Lthrowaway, they are not in the same lcia2ue.
Its onjy just simply making a poin~ t, As Dr Hewson rnakus similAr
points to me. He says J'm a loser, and I'm this~ and 7' m that
DJ lie ' l11 be hack wi th the P'rime Minister ripht. af ter this break.
And you're watching MEET THF PRESS ( IN NETWORK~ TEN
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SEGMENT 3
DJ;' You're watching MEE~ T THE PRESS Aii qround the notion. Pa tl1.
PB:. Prime Minister, you've unveiled a this year the ONIs NATI1ON
package and your budgetf, it's 2ll aimed at. stimuNl ating the
econoay, the loosening of fi-sc., 1 policy-so that Jobs can be
created. The states havo got to play their part herc j. t Seems
that uh, thtre is a hold up in the road funding alIlocations,
but more imnportaintly, it sotems to mue, LIiC Premier of our second
higge~ t statr, noxt week his government. or this week rather.
hi& government will uuveil a mini budgot that will hem contractjonary.
It will cut . qponding nnd it will up taxes. h4ow does
that Sol with your plan for Igetina the economy moving and are
you concerned about it?
PK-Welj. any contraction won't hcip, and we were not alone or at
the time perhaps we were, in one notion and expindirig fiscal
polify. Dr Hiewson, my oppoilent, says it was, a mistoko. He
says we Ahould cut the budger by 7 RiS. LION. I say th~ tt would
push Australia right back int. o . L rerr.-, ion. The Japanese
government~ not anything other thant a conServative government
in it~ a recognition around the world, has brought a fieml.
package out as twice as large as ours as a proportion of their
economy. It think its the thina Lo do. We've got the American' R
Reserve Bank Governor, Mr Croonspan~ lauding the Japanese for
their packago. We did the right thing getting the stimulus
Roing in the economy trying to promote activity and employment
get people back to work, get the place moving, get con-
Fidpnce levels going, start to get Lhe wheels of industry turning
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PB: Ru will slashing spending in Victori. a help you get the ec-onomy
going.
PK: It won' t help the VjCtorian economy. It will not help the
Victorian economy. lUh, I don't, can I say though, I don't
piesume ito be putting Mr Fennets budyet together or taking
responsibility for budgetary changes. We've till got to face
those issues. But the general. r'd say the general view is,
the Snneral line should be, that there is a role for
Sovernmelt, in not only promoting activity, but seeing the
6reat public things done. Whether it. he the road system or
the rail sy. tem, or a new airline sysrem or a ne~ w electricity
SriA, these arce all important things for the long tun
infr3structuro of Auutriia while at the same~ tirie giving people
a * Job.
AB: What about Jeff Vennet* s industrial relhtions reforms? Do you
:; ee that as a bit of a test run for the Howard/ Hewson package?
FP: Well I think tLhc uh, Dr Hcwson/ M-r How~ ird havc-made their point
quite cipar. They want to push 8 million people Onl to common
low contract. 4. I nican people have got to understand what this
MeOILS, it means that Snillion Australians tinder a Rewson government
wn a contract which jiu put in front of thcm by thcir employer,
with any real neptotiating strcngth, bccause they are not allowed
to associate in terms of the signing oC those agreviuents. There
won't be minimuns provided for othe~ r than minimums which are
now will meean the contraction in rates of pay for most people
and, I think, its a step back down the time rt'innel, T think
Australian * ociety aind fairness end equity will be very poorly
served by N. uch a change.
API: What about Lhe governments wage: s policy. Is there any chance
9œ ooN: Ono before the next election?
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I1h1, well the goyerrpments policy has been one of an evolutionary
change. From a relatively inflexible labour titarket where the
wage share was too high and the profit share too low, where
iuvestmeflt was amashed and unemployrnont was rising. To ona
where we Cot the balances Ti. ght ; And then started to open it up.
Through things -qur~ h ais awatrd restructuring whiere we saw fopr
instance in the metals indu : ty three hundred and sixty job
classifications converted into fourteen. It's only by moving
through the craft structure in an rvoluitionary way the old
craft stTVcLurA of the cenltury, can you make the Australian
la3bour nmrk. t as it is~ now becoming. much more flexible
and much more dynamic.
PIB: Would you now support a general wagc ri.,~ e Uacroas the board in
a national. wage case?
We've made our policy clear, we dmn't have to, we've just
arrived at a n. et of arrangement with the A. C. T. 11. who~ re this
year most pceople will have their wAges adjusted under
enterprise agreements. All. the flexibility
PB: What about the rest of themi though?
PK: Letlk understand this, all the flexibility AU , Lzlla needs i( I
wa~ cs it now has. It doeñ. n'L have flexibtility downwards,
and that's what Mr Howard and Dr lewson are, they're about
flaxihflity down, they actullilly want...
All: So no more national waige cases?
PX: They want to cut Lheir vagex
PB! Do you want to go to thc people as Amanda is saying there with
the promi~ e to bo able to say if you vote for us we'll support
a wage rise in a national wage caso?
PK: No, no, no what you' re s'aying with us. if yo~ u yuLe for us you
keep * 1l the rct'con. the Ip;; protections of industrial
Baads.
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13 MS: Would you support John Hatfpenny's na. tional strike in Vir-torici
next tim'e?
PK: Max, let me gay this. If you vote for John Powson, you lose
all the legal protct~ ions of the century. All the legal*
protections of awards, mateprnity leave, sick pny, holiday pay
penalty rates.
AR! Maternity rates are to be left in...
PK: No, no all these thing--are to be nogntiated, nothineg is left
MS~ That h. i! in't destroyed New Zea~ lan~ d, has it. The trade unions
thnrp don't Iike ii. lut it hasn't destroyed Now Zealand.
PK: Well its only asmall parrt pf* the workforre are cove! red by it
at this st~ g*. Wv 1re tAlLkilg . ibout New Zealnnd Max. mo just
make this point. There art* rewer pe ople in work in New Zealo. nd
i-. hnrt thpre was in 1983. In Austrarli. a [ here, is 26per cent
more in work than there wqq in 1983.. I mean New Zealan~ d hap,
/ Area
been a dl. sister, and renains onc To this d,% y.
DJ: We'll have+ mor@ with the Prime~ Minister Aftc'r this break.
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14 SEGMENT 4
dj: Welcome back to MEET T112p PRESS, our ~ Uteit is the Prime Minister.
MS: Prime Minister, we don't-here much anymore about the changinot
of the flag. Are you gotflR t~ o give up on changing the f~ lag
before the next election or tire you going to say someothing
otbout it?
11K Well, I thInk its ireportant, 1 think its imiportant for that
debate t~ o be held. r mean dl 2 of these symbolic represefitational
things need to be debated and understood.
NS Do you have a new flag for the next Plection?
PK: N'o, oh no, aind I wouldn't presume to. I've said already on the
record that uh, before the official flag is chango-d we would
have a pleh~ cite-of g. oma kind in the future. Rdut lets ma~ ke the
point one century on, from Federation as a nation, Lhat we
cant t g~ o on forcver wandering around with the f Lag of another
country in the corner of our flag. And that's n matter
I think, I me. an for Australi. a getting it clear for how it wdishes
to represent itself as a n.-ition, as an o'ftity, it a terribly
impor.. ift debate to have. But to be you know, that's entirely.
another matter mmking transitions in Lhose arrangements quickly.
Morc against Peoples wishes.
DJJ: Mr keating, thank you. ve'%-e run out of time.
PK: I've enjoyed it David, thanks.
DJ: The st ate of the Nation Pri me Minis ter PsulI Kea t ing
Before we go, one last chance Lo perhaps namne thnt date.
P K Hfa, Ha, he, % well you bctter tell me th. n~ ext gueast,
that's probably a better thinR t~ o tell ua.
DJ s Thts fltavi n~ voit -4 1 ' 1 L-T-11
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PK! Dear old JOhn.
DJ: Still no date?
PK: N4o date.
DJi OK.
PK: See you ncxt year.
DJ: Also thanks to our panel. Paul Bongiorno. Network Ten's Chief
Political Correspondent, Amanda E6uc. kley, Canberra Bureau Chief
fnr thr. Dasily Tol( graph/ 1rr A-nd M-IX Suich, Editor of the
Independant Monthly Nowspapcr. You've been watching MEET TIHE
PRESS, on NFTWORK 1P. N. Join us again next week for more of the
p-il
poople ñ wthe issuelfuf the moment, and our guest will be
John Howard, Shadow Minister for Industrial Rela: lons considered
by some the be-st P'rime Minister Australia never had.
I'm David Johnston. goodnight.
IUJ: The Prime Minister is our 6pecial Guemt an MEET THE, PRESS. T
The subject now PAY TV in Australia. MAx.
MS Prime Minister. is the press reports correct that says the
governmenlts going to give Lhe inside run Lo Kerry Packer
on conLrol. iig the 1illiflg and the general subscription infrastrucrture
for Pay Television.
PK: No/ look the Uoverning principles in this, Max, are that we
picked the right technolory whic. h r thi. rik is digital not:
analog that we don't bccome an outpost of the American film
studios, that we're not milked by Hollywood.
MS: But is there an . nside run for Korry Packer?
PX: No, Well or cuur:: i, litstezi Lo Lite inwr they're the principles.
That there is a new player, that there was not now not a network.
owner.\ paper owner, or a celecommnuniCOtion compa-ny that tticra
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iA a role for the ABC, for culiural rea~ sOIIS, hut not to enhance
the commerciallitY of the ABC. Urn, and there'll be another
network which will bo able to be bid for which the networks will
q be able to bid for.
MS: But its a sriple question, umn, the press reporting that uh
Packer will control thie billing mnd the infrast'ructure as such.
PY! Nothing of that matter is agreed anywhere.
AB: How soonh?
PK: Well I think one of the key points, the key point is the economics
of free to ai. r television depcnd upon the price of Hollywood
feaurc films. ri we Sct that wronqg, we get On~ whole of the
economics of AustrAlian television wrong. And that's why its
very imUpotanlt to choose the~ right technology you get the right
strve'. tures .4o we gct a good balance in tho cost of running Pay
TV free to air. We get that right, I think, and havc ittiew player,
which is again another new additionn to the cross rule, another
new player in Pay TV. and the ABC are role by virtue of its o
own independence and id~ inLity tis the national broadcster
then I think we'd have a pretty good system,
D J Now Rupert Murdoch wants to co) me bacic to TV in Australia, he
gays that all the rules should be abolished, it should be a
free for all. Uim, whaL do you think about that?
PX: I don't think very much about that really. T mean RupertAj was
-% round, I negotiated amongst others with him thc cross media
rule which selpMLt4ed television bad radio and print.. And T
think its a pretty good rule.
AB: Will, therc be a monopoly on the billitng and administrarion by
one licencen?
PK: Well thaes a11 to be decided.
PD3: So cven thar. Packer option is still alivr?
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17 pki Well I don't think it actually on the tablc nt this stage.
AB: lut, have you been speaking to Mr racker on this subject?
PK: I speak to all the players.
DJ: Mr Keating. there is n story in the press recently which concerns
us because it concerns probably our new owners, CANWEST. What
do you feel about an overseas company coming in and maybe
threatening to get rid of ncw, programs and making decisions
like this in the network? What do you think about that?
We have,
PK-; I think foreign ownership inimitations in relation to telovision
as a prescribed area. And that is a key consideration in our
point or view. The cconoanics of the network. s decided by thosp
who own it.
DJ: And the quality of what happens on that network with a foreign
owner doosaft...
PX! Well we've got such thinus as uh, as local content rules,
whiLh you know are designed to overcome those sort. A of problems.
MS: It wouldn't stop Channel Ten getting rid of its News and Current
Affairs though.
PK: Ah, well I don't know that anyone should make that presumption,
I don ) anything about the bid hy thc way. ? ottIitLg. I ' ve
had no contact with that. group whatsoever.
AB: We are expecting a decision on Pay TV then, are we in the next
couple of wecks?
PI: If its possible to get it together, but again, mandating a new
technology trying to set up structures which we've never hod.
Uim, is not easy and will Lake some doing
DJz Mr Keating, thank you very much
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