PIRNIIMSTEE
PRIME MINISTER INTERVIEWED BY HAYDN SARGENT ON BRISBANE RADIO 4BC
1/ 11/ 90.
E 0 E Proof only.
HSI Our Primre Minister joins us now. Mr Hawke, good morning.
PM: ' Morning Haydn.
HS: Mr Hawks thanks for your time.
PMS Pleasure.
HS: Are you happy about the outcome of the Premiers'
Conference? PM: Very happy indeed, Haydn. A great tribute to my colleagues
right across the political spectrum, they entered the conference
and they prepared for the conference constructively, cooperatively,
and it's reflected in a communique which I think
promises a great deal of benefit for the future.....
HS: Mr Hawke, as far as the Premiers' Conference is concerned,
there were Some very significant developments I guess a lot of
us were expecting or hoping for some other things or extra things
as well. one) of the things that I wondered about was the impact
of this increased costs on the road industry.
PMI It's not a question of increased costs on the road
industry, what we've got now is a situation where the costs of
our transport are unfairly distributed. What is happening is
that our rail freight industry to a considerable extent is
rendered uncompetitive by the fact that the users, the heavy
users of our roads, are subsidised and they are subsidised by the
rest of Australia and what is involved here is ensuring that we
have a system whereby those who actually cause the damage and use
the roads pay a greater and fairer contribution to the cost which
is otherwise unfairly borne by the rest of Australians.
HS: You're talking about the heavy vehicles users, operators.
PM; Yes.
HS: But isn't that going to contribute somewhat significantly
to our inflation rate?
PM: No of course not, what happens at the moment is that your
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PM ( cont): t inflation rate is made up of a whole number of
factors. What the community pays for its roads is made up in a
number of ways and whatever the cost is its met. It's being
unfairly met at the moment by the fact that those who actually
use it and cause most of the damage are not in fact meeting a
reasonable share of the damage that they cause.
HSs Yes, but the road operators are the ones who ship the
freight from the factories in Sydney and Melbourne to Brisbane,
to Adelaide to Perth or wherever, and they charge x dollars for
the delivery of that freight. Now if that freight charge goes up
because they're going to have to pay higher fees and heavier
costs, isn't it going to come out in the supermarket on the
shelves? PM: Not necessarily, you will have a situation where you're
going to create a more competitive transport situation in this
country. We will certainly be making, for instance, the rail
freight will become more competitive because we are going we've
already signed yesterday a National Rail Freight Corporation.
That will be established by July of next year. The governments
will be prepared to put capital into making that system more
efficient. As it stands now the road operators have had a very
great advantage because of the fact that they don't have to meet
the costs that really they are associated with in the use of the
roads and in the maintenance of the roads for their use. Now by
making our rail system more competitive there will be more
competition introduced between rail and road and within the road
system itself. So in the end Australians are going to benefit
from the fact that at long last governments have had the
imagination and the courage to face up to creating a more
efficient and competitive system for moving our goods around the
country. HSs With respect, I would hardly think that simply raising the
costs in terms of the road freight operators makes the railways
more competitive. That's seems like putting a ball and a chain
around the ankles of the guys who have been able to operate a
fairly competitive freight delivery service in a nation where
we've got this absolutely ridiculous situation where trains have
to change from one track to the next.
PM: Well the whole point of attacking the question of the rail
system is to introduce more capital restructuring into your rail
system. Not only will that flow from the work we'll do under the
National Rail Freight Corporation, but in the plans that we have
for lifting our transport infrastructure generally and in regard
to rail that is something that simply needs to be done to start
to meet some of the problems that you are referring to in regard
to the fact that we have a railway system that up until now has
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PM ( cont) zi been dominated by the f act of we living under six
separate States. What the States are saying now is that we are
going to co-operate to make rail more efficient. Butr
irrespective of that you've got a situation which has now been
recognised by a number of independent inquiries, including the
latest report from the Interstate Commission, that we have a
position where those who use and profit from our road systems are
not making a fair contribution to the impact they have on our
road system. In other words, as it is now consumers are
subsidising operators through the fact that what is not met
through a proper registration system which has relation to the
impact of users of our roads, what's not met in that way has to
be met in othdrs by consumers through their taxes.
HS: Yes, but you're only looking at one side of the Coin.
PM: I'm not looking at one side of the coin, the whole point of
what I've been saying Haydn is that we're looking at all sides of
the coin and all sides of the coin when you're talking about the
movement of goods around Australia involves these things they
involve air, they involve sea, they involve the ports, they
involve rail, they involve roads. Those are all the elements of
transport affecting consumers in this country and each one of
those areas is being addressed.
HS: And the consumer always pays the costs of the transport.
PM: The consumer pays currently in Australia a much higher
price. The costs for consumers in Australia are much higher
because up until now there have been inefficiencies in road,
rail, air and in regard to sea and our ports. There have been
inefficiencies in all of those areas and it's this Government,
and now in co-operation with the States, which is tackling all of
0those areas. I mean the logic of what you're saying is that we
allow road operators, heavy road operators, to continue to be
subsidised by the rest of the transport industry and by consumers
by not paying what has been recognised by every independent
inquiry, every independent inquiry that's looked at it has said
that they are being unfairly subsidised, they're not paying a
fair share of what they use to deliver their service.
HS,. No, what I'm saying is that in terms of the logic of the
economics is that if the cost of rail freight goes, up, it is
invariably the consumer sorry road freight goes up, then the
consumer ends up paying the added cost.
PM: All I'm saying is if you are talking about the economics of
it Haydn, you're setting yourself up against every independent
and expert inquiry that's investigated the subject and if you
believe Haydn -and yo're entitled to if you believe that you
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PM ( cont): t know better than every independent expert inquiry,
every independent expert inquiry and all the governments, then
you are entitled to feel that. But, with respect I don't wish
to be rude but with respect
HS: Now don't do a Hollingworth on moe.
PM: Well I can certainly tell you what I'm not going to do, I'm
not going to sit passively when people put views to m~ e which are
not correct Hasydn.
HSI Well if not correct not correct in your opinion.
Prime Minister, what moves are going to be made now to get a
unified railway system in Australia because surely when it gets
down to it thist'e the bottom line isn't it?
PM: Well the first step is what we've done. We've signed the
heads of agreement yesterday to establish a National Rail Freight
Corporation and that will establish a fully commercial rail
freight authority designed to operate to world standard
efficiency. Now that's going to involve a clean sheet
industrial award, we've got to start off afresh and so that the
unions know that they are operating in what is going to be a
competitive situation and overmanning or irrelevant work
practices will not be accepted. We have already, an the
Commonwealth, allocated $ 50 million for upgrading rail
infrastructure preparatory to the establishment of this
Corporation and further equity injections into the Corporation
will be discussed with the States. The States and the
Commonwealth will contribute to the Corporation in the form of
both assets for example rolling stock, terminals and other
infrastructure and financially with the levels of contributions
to be determined. The Corporation will be able to tender on a
commercial basis to provide rail services other than those simply
relating to interstate freight, so in this way with the
establishment of this Corporation we'll be goinq not only to
the whole question of interstate freight, creating a capacity to
provide competitive Services within states. So there is a
specific way in which we've started to tackle this issue within
the fact that we're confronted with that you've got these
differing State systems.
HS: Bearing in mind that there are a variety of different
factors that go to make up for inefficiency in say any system,
this case the railway system, how big is the factor that you've
got to keep changing trains between Perth and Cairns to ship
f reight. How big a factor is that in the inefficiency of
railways? PM: Very big and part of the work of the Interstate Rail
Freight Corporation will be to make all the changes that
PM ( cant): t possibly can be made to reduce the cost impact of
those changes.
HS: Yes, leaving aside that for the moment and that was a
positive thing that came out of it, although I think there is a
sting in the -tail and time will prove one of us right how far
down the track are we do you think in terms of the sentiments
expressed at. the Premiers' Conference for the end of the
duplication of so many services at State and Federal level?
PM: A long way down the line, we obviously in the preparation
for the conference, Haydn, and at the conference itself we
addressed these issues and we've already in one area made a
specific decinion. That is a very important area of service
delivery by both levels of government in respect of people, our
fellow Australians with disabilities and we've now made a
specific deci-sion that will divide the responsibilities there,
end a lot of the overlap by the States accepting the
responsibility for accommodation and the Commonwealth accepting
responsibility, for the employment related services. Now that
decision has been made. we are then, have listed the other areas
home and community care and then, of course, a whole range of
other areas where there are duplication of services like aged
care, housing, child care, supported accommodation, assistance
programs, education all these things now are the subject of
specific working parties with deadlines on their work next year
to give us reports, operating on the agreed principles. And the
agreed principles are this, that the level of government best
situated to deliver the service shall get it and if that means us
giving up func~ tions, so be it, we'll do that and there'll be
financial compensation where that is required. We now have a
very specific working program and deadlines to effect the changes
which will e: liminate, as far as possible, the duplication of
services that exist. But not only in terms, Haydn, of the
duplication of services, but one of the areas which is operated
against the inkterests of Australians is the existence of a whole
set of separate State regulatory systems, and manufacturers and
providers of services have had to look at a whole series of
satisfying a whole different series of regulations. Now that's
crazy, it's been recognised as crazy and we're doing these things
about that we've already agreed at this conference that
there'll be uniform national food standards and we'll work to
achieve that; in other areas where you can't necessarily get
uniformity, either at any time because it might be too complex or
immediately, we've adopted the system of mutual recognition and
that simply means that what we'll work out is a basis on where
you have, one State has a regulatory system with certain things
to be satisfied then other States will recognise that in their
State, so that something that comes from, say, New South Wales
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PM ( cont) a which satisfies the regulatory requirements of that
State then Queensland will accept that.
HSI That's a real step forward because that is actually costing
Australian manufacturers, and therefore ultimately the consumers,,
millions a year isn't it?
PM: It is indeed and it's a very signif icant step forward and
we will benefiat greatly from that. Another area where we've made
a decision that will operate by the end of the first half of next
year is that. in regard to professional and occupational
recognition. That is where a lawyer who is recognised in
Queensland, heD has his I mention lawyer but you can have a
tradesman.... HS: Registered in Queensland.
PM: Where their qualifications are registered and recognised in
Queensland, then there'll be recognised elsewhere in Australia.
HS: That will be a good thing, I mean that's been bothering
nurses for a long time.
PM: In other words you can see, Haydn, that very significant
decisions have already been taken. It's not a matter of just
setting down reviews with deadlines in other areas which we've
had to do and which will be dealt with during next year, but
we ' ye obviously made decisions which are going to be very
important.
HS: Prime Minister it's good to yarn, I thank you for your
time. PM: It's always good to yarn to you Haydn, thank you and all
the best.
Ends