PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF JOINT NEWS CONFERENCE WITH RABBIE NAMALIU,
PRTY41R XTNTSTER OF PAPUA NEW GUINEA, TRAVELODGE HOTEL,
PORT MORESBY 3 SEPTEMBER 1990
E OE PROOF ONLY
PM: Ok. Would you like to just start with the
questions? Would you like any initial statement or just
questions? JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, what did you mean in your speech
today when you referred to the time is long past that
Australian forces could act in an internal security role?
You then qualified this by saying
PM: Yes, I used three adjectives exceptional, agreed
and limited I think.
JOURNALIST; ( inaudible)
PM: Yes. Taking the first part of it Milton, in preindepedence
days of course Australian forces were used
and I think there was some perception in the postindependence
period that that sort of thing could happen.
What I wanted to make ulear within that context of the
general points I'd been making before that, was that
people must absolutely understand the reality that when
you're talking about the relations between Papua New
Guinea and Australia you're talking about the relations
between two sovereign and independent nations. Therefore
when you're talking between two sovereign independent
nations it is not normal to assume that the forces of one
will go in and be involved in the internal security
matters of the other. I wanted to make that absolutely
clear. Now it is the case that, for instance the Prime
Minister and I have talked about contingent situations
where Australia's interests let's be precise, in
Bougainville it was conceivable there that if things
had developed in a way which was, y'know, very bad and
that Australian lives could have been threatened or
questions of hostages involved, that, and given the
numbers of Australians there and also New Zealanders for
instance talked to us about this, it was conceivable
that we might have wanted to say to the Papua New Guinea
Government, well there are circumstances there which,
would you consider it appropriate that we should be
involved for the very limited and agreed purposes of
protecting the interests of a large number of
Australians. Let me be quite specific about it in that
context. But the important point Milton was that because
it is a relationship between two sovereign independent
nations there was never any thought in my mind that I
could just send Australian troops in there. It was
something that I properly had to talk with the Prime
Minister about and get a degree of understanding. That
was the sort of thing I had in mind.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, you also said in your speech that
you felt it was no longer appropriate for people to be
suggesting that Australia should transfer large numbers
of public servants and military advisors to help you
and you say it's just not on? To whom in Papua New
Guinea are you addressing those remarks?
PM: It was not just to Papua New Guinea. You see, one
of the things that's worried me about discussions about
the relations between Papua New Guinea and Australia is
not just within some areas of Papua New Guinea, and
certainly in some areas of Australia, but when I find
people in the region and some of our larger international
friends, they're talking about this region as though
independence hasn't taken place. I mean there is an
unstated assumption in a lot of these areas that we still
have some sort of almost colonial relationship. So in
every respect it's important to be saying I wasn't
talking just Papua New Guinea. I mean that address
was directed to a broad audience as well.
JOURaNALIST: General Benny Murdani was allegedly saying
to Dr Hewson that Australia might have to play a role in
Papua New Guinea. Is that the sort of person you're
talking about? 1
PH: No. Let me say that in regard to those people,
those two participants in that dialogue, it was a
dialogue of the knowledgable and the unknowledgable.
General Murdani does know a good deal about the situation
on the broader and in particular in relations of the two
countries in general. The Leader of the opposition has
an amazing learning curve when it comes to matters
regional and international. As far as Indonesia is
concerned, let me say this, that I believe that the
relations between Indonesia and Papua New Guinea are
mature and intelligent with a shared understanding of the
betwoen then the relationship. And r
indeed Rabbie we've been talking about this issue.
very pleased to see that both the Prime Minister and the
Foreign Minister have asserted the nature of that
relationship as being on a very sound basis. I don't
believe that either the President of Indonesia or Mr
Alatas who I think is an outstanding Foreign minister, or
General Murdani are under any illusions as to the
sovereign independence of Papua New Guinea and within
that framework of the propriety of the relationships
between Australia and Papua New Guinea. Certainly in the
discussions that we've had with the Indonesians we've had
no reason to believe that.
JOURNALIST: Mr Nainaliu, I wonder if there is any
contingency where you would ask Australia to send troops
to assist in Bougainville?
NAMALIU: The question is obviously hypothetical in the
sense that you don't actually consider those sorts of
options until a situation arises. But in the particular
case that's been referred to here by the Prime Minister
in respect of Australian citizens, say in the case of
Bougainville, being placed in a difficult position
because of safety of lives, there would have to be in
that case a contingency plan to ensure that they were
flown or taken out of the island safely and that no lives
were put in jeopardy. That is one situation where you
could foresee this type of circumstance arising.
JOURNALIST: Mr Naaliu, what's the latest state of play
as far ab the delivery of goods and services to
Bougainville? NAMALIU: The state of play as of now is that the ships
are still there with the supplies on board, with our men
on board. Discussions are still taking place between the
BRA leaders and the community leaders as to the question
of distribution. question that is still being
resolved because obviously there is a difference of view
as to who should be doing the distribution of services on
the island. And in this case the BRA have obviously
indicated that they would like to co-ordinate all of the
distribution of the goods and services that are being
delivered. on the other hand community leaders feel that
it should be the public servants that should be doing it.
JOURNALIST: H{ ow much pressure has this difference of
view put the Endeavour Accord under?
NANALIU: I think that if tflis nad VuL presouro on thPo
Endeavour Accord to the extent to whether there was any
likelihood of it breaking down it would have happened by
now. The fact that there's been, that, so far, the
Accord is being observed by and large in the sense that
there's been no force used, no arms carried, our men have
been asked to remain there rather than go, there has been
uumxmuzication betweenl our people and the BRA leaders.
The fact that our people are indicating that Lhey should
go because is running low, ask to stay as well as
the fact that they were being asked to tend to urgently
sick people, all indicates that the good will is there,
that the desire is there to make sure that the Endeavour
Accord is implemented but implemented in such a way that
the community leaders and the BRA leaders themselves are
agreed on a common position. So T don't think it is at
risk. JOURNALIST: They're all off Buka Island?
NAMALIU: They're all there now.
JMMW 7WI ST: Are they actually Attending to urqently sick
people? NAMALIU: That's the request that's coming through now.
So within the next few hours we should know whether that
would be possible.
JOURNALIST: So the ships have come along side have they?
NAMALIU: Yes.
JOURNALIST: Prime Ministers, both of you in your
speeches today referred to law and order concerns. There
seemed to be some suggestion that if a request for
additional assistance for policing be made or the
offer would be made. Is there any funds planned for that
or any request in mind?
NAMALIU: We have a program, as you may be aware, under
AIDAB. That's being funded by the Australian Government,
specifically geared to assisting the police building
and ensuring that at a number of levels, including
management, that we have assistance provided in a way
that it improves the level of performance of our police
force. More recently we have indicated that we may be
requiring some additional help in terms of advisors to
join those that are already here.
PM: I've indicated a positive attitude towards any such
request that may come.
JOURNALIST: To what extent would this extra help go? I
mean how many advisors?
NAMALIU: Twenty.
PM: Twenty.
JOURNALIST: And what's the cost?
PM: It's capable of being accommodated within the
existing programs that we have. Let me say that even if
it were not and I'm assured that it is but even if it
were not I'd be prepared to meet the request.
JOURNALIST: Are there any special areas that these
twenty advl~ orm will be covering, liae crowd control?
NAMALIU: They would be placed in positions at the
provincial levels because at the moment most of those
that are already here are based in Port Moresby. What we
would like is to have more of these advisors out in the
provinces assisting at the provincial level. Assisting
provincial commanders, regional commandem1. As part of
our new initiative to set up regional .& jds in the
country we would also like to build o * mjN aeity at thalevel
in addition to the capacity th fe& ing developed
at the provincial level.
PK4: Let me make the point that that is precisely
consistent with what I was expressing in my speech,
that's it's not an idea of us coming in and solving the
problems, it's a question of assisting Papua New Guinea
to build up their own capacity to deal with these issues.
JOURNALIST: Kr Namaliu, in your speech you spoke of the
tremendous difficulties that will challenge the very
basis of our democratic institutions, which sounds a
fairly dire sort of a worry. Could you elaborate on
exactly what you fear.
NAMALIU: What I think I fear is, as I'm sure you will
understand, is that once you have a total breakdown of
law and order, then the very fabric of democratic
institutions in this country would be at risk. Therefore
it is in our interests and international interests that
we maintain those institutions that are responsible for
ensuring that order exists in this country. And it is in
that context that I was making those comments.
JOURNALIST: Mr Namaliu, mr Hawke has indicated twice how
he Australia is willing to assist with the of
Bougainville. Have you given, has your Government given
any practical consideration to that offer?
NAMALIJ: Not in a sense of there being specific
requests. But obviously in the overall scheme of things
in respect of the rehabilitation program further down the
line, as we begin this process of delivery services and
goods to the province, there will emerge from time to
time additional needs that we may not be in a position to
do ourselves, in which case we may be looking for
additional help.
0 JOURNALIST: Mr Namaliu, will your Government be
rescinding a recent Private Members Bill regarding
mineral mining, givinq landowners rights down to twenty
metres below the surface?
NAMALIU: That particular bill is not yet in which
case it is not yet in effect. Hioweverl the intention of
the Government is essentially this, that we have been now
relation t; mining" 47 R& AV,~ gslation in
planning and proposing to introduce a series of
ameondments anyhow, changes to the mining legislation
which will in this case 1nciuañ e an twwundment or ahange tm
that particular bill to ensure that existing agreements
are honoured. And also that in relation to alluvial
mining, which is something that we are generally agreed
on, that it is defined in such a way that it is in fact
referring to alluvial mining and that no and no
prospecting or or no existing agreement is affected
in such a way that by the application of that principle
it also creates problems for mining which is the
particular case in the case of Mount..
JOURNALIST: So this would remove the threat to CRA?
NAI4ALIU: That's right.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister Namaliu, what sort of
timeframe are you looking at, what is your latest
assessment on resolving the crisis on Bougainville?
NA! IALIU: If I had we of course have been hoping that
by now we would have resolved the problem. Twelve months
ago I was asked the same question. I said I was
optimistic that we would within the timeframe that has
now brought tn us today. Obviously that has not
happened but it hasn't diminished our resolve to ensure
that we resolve it firstly peacefully, because we believe
very strongly that that's the only way to achieve a
lasting solution to this situation. But we have the
experience that it takes time. And it will take time.
There will not be any magic, fast solution to this
situation. JOURNALIST: In taking this time, is it in your view
entrenching the BRA?
NAMALIU: It depends on how you look at it. Because if
for instance you look at the situation as it has existed
now since M'arch the level of services in the provinces
has collapsed totally in which case those that were in
some position of decision-making over there would not
have been in a position to satisfy the vast majority of
the people in the province with increasing pressures for
access to toivices which cannat be provided under the
present circumstances. So in that sense it is difficult
to entrench your position if you don't have the goods to
deliver to the people. Eventually the people themselves
would get frustrated and will start applying, as they are
in fact doing, pressures on you to either resume the
services or something else might develop.
JOURNALIST: Nr Namaliu, how many people have died as a
result of not having medical supplies and to treat
diseases and so on?
NAI4ALIU: I think that those that have died are all
mainly women in the process of childbirth.
JOURNALIST: Numbers?
? 4AMALIU: No, we don't have any specific numbers. It's
obviously difficult to get correct numbers, or has been
over the last few months.
JOURNALIST: The Australian when they left the
country some time ago, a month or so ago, used the figure
of fourteen people having died.
NAMALIU: No, we don't have any way of confirming that
figureo. go at thig point T rnnin't he any more accurate
than what I'm saying nov.
JOURNALIST: Is that a tolerable situation Prime
Minister? NAMALIU: No situation is tolerable where lives are lost
of course. In this situation unfortunately that has
happened. We wanted to avoid it. We want to avoid it.
Which is why we're anxious to get services restored to
the island as soon as practicable.
JOURNALIST: Are you insisting that security forces be on
the island to distribute those services? Is that your
final position on that?
NAMALI7: No, they'* re all basically to help with
restoration of services roads, health services
getting repaired and put back into a situation where they
can take in nurses and patients and so on. more than
any other option. The distribution will be done by
public servants who are there. That would be
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, I asked for an opening statement.
can you tell me how you felt discussions went today with
the PNG Government and what particular issues dominated
PH: Yes. Well firstly they well let me go back. It's
usual when you visit another country and have discussions
with Heads of Government and Ministers to say that the
talks have boon frank, dirent and constructive. That's a
standard line of patter that's used I suppose. But I
simply want to say to you that on this occasion wh~ en I
say to you, as I will, that have been direct, frank,
constructive, that's not a line of patter because that's
an accurate use of language to describe what's happened
in the relatively brief period we've been here. I've had
firstly a session with the Prime Minister and a smaller
group of Hinicters. That w~ n hofore lunch, And then
after lunch with an expanded group of Ministers. We
wasted no time. We covered the bilateral relationship in
terms of and this is not in order of importance but
covering the things that we dealt with: aid; the
economic development of Papua New Guinea; the issues of
Bougainville; the related issues of resource development
what had been the impact of Bougainville upon those;
the satisfauticin or otherwise of the Government here with
the arrangements they have in place in other areas of
development in terms of the relationship of the central
government, the landowners and provincial government in
terms of share of benefits. There was a lot of
discussion about our defence co-operation programs in
regard to the challenges confronting Papua New Guinea in
the area of internal security and law and order. There
was discussion about trade between our two countries.
And without being exhaustive, they covered the sorts of
8
things that we really spent most of our time upon. There
woo alco a discusgion Ahhit nonstitution4l reform and the
relationship between the central government and
provincial government. We also affirmed the commonality
of our position on the need in this emergence of new
generations of leadership in Papua New Guinea, and in
Australia, to ensure that the framework that we have
should be developed in a way that meant that these new
generations of leadership would take the relationship as
aaeieusly no thoce in the first fifteen vears Qf
independence have done. We talked about the significance
for the development of Papua New Guinea, of its position
in the Asia Pacific region. The whole of those
discussions, if I may say, were premised upon points that
I made in my speech, and that is that we assert the
foundational importance of recognising the sovereign
independence of Papua New Guinea. We're not here to make
decisions for them. That is objectionable in concept,
impractical in fact. And that what the whole thrust of
Australia's position is to try and ensure that the aid
that we give, which more and more is going to be balanced
Nordg nrglect ad goam aid rather than budget aid,
best equip Papua Now Guinea to b. AhlP to meet the most
obvious challenges of economic development and law and
order. Tnat was the 5tLrLuuLL the framework and tho
content of the talks.
JOURNALIST: On the question of aid, Mr Namaliu in his
speech projected the running down of budget aid by
the end of the century. I take it that you'd be happy
with that sort of projection, but have you any idea of
what level of, how the program aid is likely to rise
reciprocally over that period?
PMT No we can't be precise about it. What's been
understood from the time when we really went to tne
Development Cooperation Program was that, and that was
finalised in 89. It has been based on a clear
understanding on both sides that it is politically and
economically appropriate that we should move to the
position where in budget terms the Government of Papua
New Guinea is financially independent. You've got to
reconiao that at tho presPnt time the aid of over $ 300
million is a very significant proportion of their budget
position and the GDP is to the order of six per cent.
And we recognise that that has got to come down and down.
But it will mean that you can't sensibly, at this stage,
put a figure upon either the aggregate or the breakup
wiLhll project and program assistnnp that will b
appropriate at that time. I mean it's too uncertain.
The JlmiLtant thing for Papua Now Guinea to know is tbe
continuing commitment we have to be of relevance to them
and assistance to them in terms of the particular
challenge and problems that confront them. No-one tries
to say at this time that you can put figures upon that.
At all points however there will be one common thread
about our assistance. It will always be directed towards
trying to ensure that the capacity and the instruments of
Papua New Guinea for dealing with its problems are going
to be enhanced. That's the continuing criterion that will
be employed.
JOURNALIST: -In the course of the talks Mr Hawke on
Bougainville, were you able to provide any advice or
assistance at all on the stand-off between the BRA and
the PNG forces?
PM: I neither proffered any nor was I asked. That was
as it should be, I repeat, in a position of the relations
between two sovereign independent nations. The
resolution of the Bougainville issue is a matter for the
Government of Papua New Guinea.
JOURNALIST: 14r Hawke if the situation did deteriorate
and Australian help was requested, would the strategy be
limited simply to trying to get Australians out help
to restore order?
PM: No I must say that the very very firm prima facie
position would be the former. That we would see our
responsibility on the basis of agreement with the
Governmnent of Papua New GUinea would be, in that
hypothetical situation, the provision of our resources to
ensure the safe withdrawal of, not only Australian
citizens, but it would be possible in that situation if
you're talking about perhaps New Zealanders. That would
be the strong prima facie position. I can't rule out
absolutely that there wouldn't be in some situation
either a request and a consideration of some other
function, But prima facie I would be against it and we
should limit ourselves to the role of, on an agreed
basis, protecting Australian citizens.
JOURNALIST: Mr Namaliu, has Indonesia expressed its
concern about the seccessionist movement in Bougainville
NAMALIU: No.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister Hawkce in your speech you said
Australia hasn't got the capacity I understand
position you've taken philosophically. what does this
capacity mean?
PM: The capacity was related to politics not
intrinsic, I mean I didn'* t mean to convey
JOURNALIST: It's not military force for example, not
military capacity?
PM: No. It's the political, it goes to political
reality. Nothing that and we are talking so
hypothetically. Get back to the facts, we are talking of
relations between two sovereign independent nations. In
that context if Australia were to say we'll. come in and
fix up your law and order problems, the political
realities are that you couldn't do it. They wouldn't
accopt it. Nor should they. It wnifld hp rPp1i1iAt. Pd and
so it should. I mean that's the sense in which we
haven't got the capacity. I am not saying that we
technically don't know what issues are relevant, but it's
only in that sense that if our advice and assistance is
sought we'll give it but we can't do it.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke this constant message you've been
delivering today that it's Papua New Guinea's
responsibility to sort out its problems
PM: I've been delivering two messages so don't say it is
just one It's two. That it is the responsibility of
Papua New Guinea to deal with its problems. It will be
the intention of Australia as a close neighbour and good
friend to assist them to be in a position to do those
things.
JOURNALIST: I think you are on the right track.
PM: Thank you very much. Thank you. That reassures me.
,. URNALIST: What I was qoing to ask though, sir, was is
cL 4 S
in Australia as it is to people up here?
PM: In a sense yes. I go back to the point there is
often, amongst some Australian commentators and some in
the region and some in the world, the unstated assumption
that there is still some quasi colonial relationship.
Well let everyone understand that that finished in 1975.
JOURNALIST: Mr Namaliu do you have to still wean your
people off the idea well we can turn to Australia in
times of need?
NAMALIU: I think, you know, that the people of this
country know that we cannot go on depending on Australia
forever or indefinitely. On the other hand they know
that Australia is a friend, Australia is right next door,
we have a long historic relationship and tne Australian
people generally I feel are well regarded up here. And
in that regard wherever there is a need that we cannot
fulfill from within and need some help with Australia
obviously comes to the forefront of the countries that we
go to.
JOURNALIST: Mr Namaliu, Mr Hawke is going to Mt Hagen
tomorrow. There has as I understand it been a
consla. L-WIJt of tcAsien thoro followiiJ 1hD
killing of the Engan businessman, What is the
position at the moment and do you have any security
concerns? NAMALIU: The position is thut-y wiii be welcome 2%
Mt Hagen by the Premier and the people of Western
Highlands. They are prepared for him and they are ready
to welcome him there tomorrow. And then up to Porgera
where the Premier of Enga, and the members from Enga for
the Porgera area as well as the regional member for Enga,
will be there to welcome the Prime Minister tomorrow. I
Anni'-think t-hat thR MIA~ tion of security will be a malor
concern so as to prevent the visit from going ahead.
They are ready, they're prepared and they will be there
to welcome the Prime Minister tomorrow.
JOURiNALIST: Mr Hawkce I presume the London conventiopi
applies-
PH: You'* re absolutely correct.
JOURNALIST: I wondered whether you'd break it for Iraq?
PM: Yes, that's not London.
JOURNALIST; The Iraqi Ambassaator in Lcanberra today has2
stated that men would would be kept as pawns until
the end, until the threat to Iraq had disappeared
PM: Well I deplore it. it is the case that, as I'm
informed as of about 3.00 o'clock this afternoon, I am
trying to keep in touch continuously with the situation.
As I'm informed from the middle of the afternoon there
are I belieVe two Australian males still in detention.
The whereabouts of one is not known. This use of
innocent foreign nationals in the Gulf crisis by the
leadership of Iraq is horrendous, unacceptable and there
will be, I repeat, no resolution. There can be no
resolution of this crisis until really three things
happen. I have been consistent in what I have said on
this from the beginning and that is that there must be
withdrawal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. There must be a
release of all foreign hostages. And there must be a
cessation of the threat to the country of Kuwait and
Saudi Arabia. These things are non-negotiable facts. I
repeat what I've said consistently that it is an
unacceptable violation of international codes of
behaviour between nations that innocent foreigners are
used as hostages in this sense.
JOURNALIST: do you have any concerns that the Summit
between the US and Russia unprecedented world front
against Iraq will produce any more or is there fears of a
split PM: I have no fears of a split. I think we've got to
put that in the context that the Secretary General of the
United Nations. Perez de Cuellar made a gallant attempt
to mediate in this matter and it may have ended in a way
in which the United Nations Secretary General has said
involves no progress whatsoever. In that circumstance
the meeting between Presidents Bush and Gorbachev is to
be welcomed. I think the statement by President Bush was
an accurate one when he was asked as to what he thought
a. had been the attitude of the Soviets in this crisis in
his words, was superb, in describing their attitude and
their actions. I think that was a proper use of language
and I think within the framework of the developing
constructive relationship between the superpowers I have
no reason to believe that the Summit will involve
anything other than a continuation of that constructive
relationship. I can only express the hope that, as I
have before, that Saddamn Hussein will make a rational
analysis of the facts. Any rational analysis of the
facts must lead to the conclusion that there can only be
UU ft# abL 6-. J. J1 LWA. VIUWFjV, W Lj
the present situation. And I mean by that a continuation
of the economic sanctions can only bring economic and
personal devastation to the people of Iraq. There is a
question of how long that takes but it must end in
devastation. And of course the other possibility that we
all hope and pray would not occur is that some escalation
of the conflict could only mean possible devastation. So
I would just say to President Saddam Hussein that the
rational analysis of the factual situation should lead
him to the conclusion that he should withdraw his forces,
he should release the hostages. I repeat what I have
said and what other leaders have said that if he does
that then he should understand these things'would follow.
there would be an end to sanctions; there would
be a withdrawal of the multinational naval force; ( c)
there would be the draw-down of the desert shield forces;
there would be an effort by everyone to get Iraq back
constructively into the international community of
nations; and importantly, that if Saddam Hussein
believes that Iraq has genuine grievances with Kuwait,
either territorial or in regard to disputed resources,
then there are means available including the
International Court of Justice where these issues can be
decided. He ought to understand that that should be the
route they go.
ends