PM Transcripts

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH IAN McMINN, RADIO 3AW,
MELBOURNE 11 DECEMBER 1989
E & 0E -PROOF ONLY
McMINN: Good morning Prime minister, not 21 that's for
sure. PM: A bit more than that mate.
McMINN: How was your birthday bash?
PM: It was good. We saw a lot of old friends stretching
way back some I went to school with and some I haven't
seen for some time. It was a very very happy and rather
long night.
McMINN: A rather long night? Not like the old days?
PM: I beg your pardon?
McMINN: Not like the old days?
PM: Not for me, it was for some.
McMINN: Anyway, thanks very much for joining me on the
program. PM: Pleasure Ian.
McMINN: First up I guess the one issue that could or would
stop you being re-elected and that's interest rates, as it
affects both home-owners and also small business. In fact I
looked at an editorial, Prime Minister, in yesterday's Sun
Herald where it says that it attacks the very cornerstone of
your Government's success in regard to jobs because as
interest rates stay high then people will eventually have to
lay off workers.

PM: Well, the employment figures are still good. We've had
another significant increase in employment in the last
month's figures and a reduction of unemployment below the
six per cent mark and participation rates at their highest
ever. So at this stage what seems to be happening is that
there is a lowering of activity in some areas but it is not
yet reflected in a decline in employment and what we're
trying to achieve is what they say in the jargon a soft
landing so that we can ease off the level of activity, most
importantly therefore, imports, while still having
sufficient growth to maintain employment. Now that's the
picture that seems to be emerging and it's going to be a
fine act of political and economic judgement to get that
just right, but I believe we will.
McMINN: Do you ever get sick and tired of saying that, I
mean, you've been saying that now for some months? That
PM: No
McMINN: if soft landing maybe?
PM: Well, if it's right, if it's what you're about you
can't have a different story every day. You've got to call
it as it is and that's the way it is Ian.
McMINN: And what about small business?
PM: Small business is participating and it has been a major
participant in the facts of the seven years of this
Government, including the most recent period. And those
facts are very simple a rate of economic growth twice as
fast as in the previous seven years, a rate of employment
growth five times as fast. So they have been great
beneficiaries of the doubled rate of economic growth and the
higher rate of employment. And, equally therefore, they
must be participants in the decision now which involves some
slowing down of activity. You can't be in it at all the
buoyant, expanding times and expect to be opted out by the
Government at the stages where you have to restrain activity
a bit.
McMINN: In 1983 you welded together a number of interest
groups, one of which was small business, and now they're
crying out they're saying that they're going broke.

PM: Of course when you say they are crying out, they are
going broke, you can't have a situation where the economy is
still growing, and employment still growing, and having
every small business going broke. The fact is of course
that for all business, large and small, there is some
pressure from tight monetary policy and that's why it's
there. Not to have a position where it is easier to grow.
What we're doing at the moment is deliberately, in the
interest of Australians now and in the future, is to lower
the level of economic activity because we can't sustain the
level of imports. Now that's what the policy is about to
lower the level of activity and so, obviously, that puts
some pressure on, that's what the policy is about.
McMINN: What about the pilots, I mean you made the point
earlier on you can't be in it sometimes and out of it other
times, and then as late as last Thursday you were talking
about the fact that you'd be urging the airlines to forego
their damages claim. Now we hear from Brian McCarthy again
today that all's not well in the IRC and, you know, we can't
see an end to it again.
PM: Well, that's from Mr McCarthy's point of view all may
not be well. The simple fact that Brian McCarthy has to
understand is that there can't be one set of rules for his
organisation and one for everyone else. The Commission is
saying there are three conditions under which Mr McCarthy's
Federation can have the opportunity of being part of the
action. I will just remind you that they are the ones that
apply to everyone else. Firstly, that the bans on the
employment of his members being lifted, that applies to
everyone, no union can be involved in the processes who've
got that situation. So exactly the same lift their bans
on the employment of their members. Secondly, that they
accept the decisions of the Commission, the same as for
everyone else. And third, that they accept the principles
of the National Wage case guidelines, the same as for
everyone else. So what Mr McCarthy must understand and that
no-one is saying to him, and certainly not me, but more
importantly it's the Commission. No special problems or
difficulties or conditions for you, just that you accept the
conditions that apply to everyone else.
McMINN: But was it out of character I know you've been
asked this by people within your party and certainly
commentators have made this type of judgement as well that
in 1983 you were the great conciliator, the good bloke if
you like, and all of a sudden we had a different side of Bob
Hawke PM: It's not a different side at all
McMINN: it's war?

PM: It's a grossly inadequate analysis
McMINN: When you say it's war.
PM: But why don't you give the whole instead of for
your own purposes. You're trying to get an argument going
with a grin on your face. You only quote part of it. The
full quote, of course, was that I was saying to them not
only directly at them in that quote as I did, but through
intermediaries then and during the dispute I was saying,
look, for God's sake, don't pursue this course of action,
don't declare that you are going to take everyone on. The
employers, the Commission, the Government, the trade union
movement operate within the system If however you are
going to say that you are going to set your sights on
destroying everyone else, then it's war. Not of my
choosing. What I was seeking and choosing was the processes
of conciliation and arbitration, in the system. I said it's
only if you are going to take on everyone else then
understand that it is war in those circumstances. We are
not going to lay back and have the system destroyed. They'd
better understand that. Now, that's what I've asked all the
way through that should happen. I hope that now that the
position is quite clear that the airlines are going to
restore full operations, I hope that the Federation will
make the decision to come back into the arbitration system
so that in some way they may perhaps be able to look after
that number of their members for whom there will be jobs.
McMINN: Were you told at that time, way back when, that the
dispute may only last about three or four weeks
PM: What has happened of course is that once the AFAP the
Federation of Airline Pilots once they made the decision
to instruct their members to resign then you were into a new
situation. It wasn't the same dispute. Because when you
had the employer and the union in dispute then that was one
thing. Once the airline pilots' organisation instructed
their pilots to resign, then the airlines had none of their
members employed. And that's what I meant you moved into
a new situation because what was involved then was the
rebuilding of the airlines without the AFAP. That was a
quite different situation. That first stage was over,
you've moved into one then which is going on now, which
everyone accepts is going to move to completion, that is
McMINN: One day.

PM: The fact is that you will have the airlines operating
normally as you go into 1990. That is normal in terms of
being able to cater, through their regular services, with
the demand that's made upon them. That's what is going to
happen and that's why I've said, I said the other day, now
look I don't want damages collected from the AFAP. What I
want to see is the airline industry operating not just
normally as measured by services available to meet demand
but I also want a situation in which there can be as much
industrial harmony as possible. You are not going to have
that if you impose damages upon the union. I've never
wanted that but the important part of the case that was
taken, which I supported, was that you had an independent
judicial assessment by a judge of the Supreme Court as to
what the facts of the case were. And it totally destroyed
the totally untrue claims that were made by the Federation
and its leadership that here was a conspiracy by the
Government and the airlines. The finding of the judge of
the Supreme Court was it was the Federation that was
spoiling for the fight, not the Government and the airlines.
McMINN: Just looking at Victoria right now, you're right in
the middle of all sorts of problems in terms of public
transport. Now obviously that's not your responsibility
although there has been comments by Gerry Hand, a former
State President of the Labor Party here, saying that it
could have a backlash federally and clearly there's a number
of marginal seats that Labor must win if you are to retain
Government. Does it concern you that you've got this sort
of problem continuing?
PM: I'd rather obviously not have the problem in any State.
Before you go to a federal election you like it all to be a
bed of roses, no problems at all. That's a fact a life.
Now I don't intrude into the Victorian State situation when
it's a matter of State responsibility. I do hope and trust
that these issues will be resolved as soon as possible, and
that's not just because there will be a federal election
next year, but just because of the issues themselves. I
hope and trust and believe that they will be resolved. And
in regard to Gerry Hand, you mentioned Gerry, well the
difficulty obviously there is that he's both a Minister in
the Federal Government and also has his constituency in the
area very much in question. Now I hope that it will be
resolved in a way which doesn't involve a continuing problem
for Gerry Hand in his dual capacity.
McMINN: So clearly it's something that you wouldn't
entertain going on for a whole lot longer?
PM: I hope it doesn't go on for a lot longer, no.

McMINN: Child poverty and we're getting all these ones
out of the way child poverty, that statement of yours in
1987, has it caused you moments when you wished you'd have
said it another way?
PM: I did in fact, of course, in the full statement that
was issued with the election speech that I delivered the
full statement was that there would be no financial need for
any child to live in poverty. And obviously it would have
been better in hindsight if that full passage that was in
the written, distributed text was the one that was actually
used. But it's very important to notice that those who are
in fact directly concerned are the ones that have indicated
that the Prime Minister delivered on the p romise that he
made. Let's just, without burdening you with a whole lot of
quotes, but just let me give you a couple of references.
The Australian Institute of Family Studies have referred to
the fact that my promise was that we would make the family
allowance supplements increased in percentage terms to the
married pension rate and they said, and I quote them: " By
these means the Government's pledge to meet the benchmarks
has been met. The new levels of family allowance
supplements represent rises in real terms since 1983/ 4 of 41
per cent for younger children and 203 per cent for older
children over the previous family income supplement
payments. For low income families, especially, the decision
of the Government to annually adjust all family related
payments in accordance with movements in the Consumer Price
Index is the most significant long term reform of the tax
package." And Bishop Hollingworth on the 7th of May in
strict income security terms: " Ilt is true that the Prime
Minister's promise that no children shall live in poverty by
1990 will be achieved. This represents significant
progress." Perhaps most importantly, in terms of the
miserable politics of the Opposition on this, Bishop Peter
Hollingworth stated in August of this year that the
Government had made real advances in recent years in
building a more secure and adequate system of income support
for Australians living close to or below the poverty line.
He said this: " These reforms are too important to be caught
in the crossfire of political conflict. The Opposition
ought to openly acknowledge the merit of such reforms and
move towards a more bipartisan stance on welfare policies
for children." So those in the area know that the promise
that there would be no financial need for children to live
in poverty they are asserting that that promise has been
delivered and they are criticising the Opposition for their
miserable attitude and opportunism in this matter. Quite
rightly so I might say too.

McMINN: Yet of course you've got a report yesterday coming
out from the Sydney City Mission talking about 500,000
children who are still living in poverty and a quote from a
Mr Ken Harrison there: " I applaud the Prime Minister's
sentiments", in regard to what you just said, " however the
reality has not been reached."
PM: What we are saying is that what you deliver in respect
of children is a very very substantial increase in financial
outlays to lower income families via the family allowance
supplement so that in respect of children the benchmarks
that were agreed by the people from the same sector that
this spokesman is about we didn't just say here are the
benchmarks, as a proportion of the pension, which will meet
the target of payments to look after the needs of children.
We did it in consultation with these people. It was agreed
that if these family allowance supplements amounts paid to
into the families for their kids, if those payments are met,
they will represent the amount to deal with the needs of
children in those circumstances. Now, that has been done.
That doesn't mean, as I've said in my meeting with the
Australian Council of Social Service not long ago, that
doesn't mean that there are not other elements that relate
to poverty. What we were about was the actual financial
payments that would meet the needs of children. Let me just
again quote so that we can pick up the point to which you
referred the ACOSS on the 3rd of October put out its news
release and in it they say: " The Government's initiatives
on child poverty have been of considerable benefit. The
financial benchmarks for children which the Government set
have been met and ahead of target. ACOSS congratulates the
Government on setting and achieving these standards." But
they then go on, and this is important in relation to what
you were saying: " The Prime Minister is correct to say that
he has achieved the financial benchmarks for children and
this is a major achievement." And remember, this is the
Australian Council of Social Service saying that.
" However", they say, " it is also clear that poverty has not
been eradicated in our society. The Prime Minister in his
speech to us acknowledged that there is more to poverty than
just income. Poverty is also about a lack of access to
adequate housing, health care, education and jobs." They
conclude by saying that I'd indicated to them that I'd " work
with them and other organisations in addressing this broader
agenda. We welcome his determination to seriously tackle
these issues in a comprehensive way." And since then, just
the week before last, I met with ACOSS in Sydney to address
these other aspects which go to poverty, the ones that they
mentioned. But in welcoming the fact that I'm meeting with
them to deal with those other issues, they say that I have
met and delivered on my promise the financial targets in
regard to children in poverty and met it ahead of schedule.

McMINN: A couple of other quick points, Prime Minister,
before we try to maximise your time here by letting people
talk to you directly.
PM: Yes.
McMINN: Today's Herald has an article by Hugh Crawford
saying that Senator Graham Richardson indicated that the
Federal Government would hold on as long as possible before
going to the polls. He said the Government still had six
months to go and putting that in the context of another
article there by Tony Parkinson who says and this will be
interesting for you: " Federal Opposition Leader Mr Peacock
has conceded the Hawke Government is likely to go into next
year's election campaign with interest rates lower than
now." I quote him: " I make no bones about it, I expect
interest rates, for professional rates anyhow, to come down
a couple of points before the next election. But I also
know that people will see through it" and he says that while
this will give a psychological boost to Labor in a run up to
a possible May poll, it will be something that people will
see for what it is. A slight drop before you go to the
polls.
PM: Let me say this, without any personal disrespect to
Andrew, it's not only myself but everyone in the economic
and political area would take no notice of anything that
passes as economic analysis by Andrew. It's a matter of
common currency in the business and political and economic
community that Mr Peacock's understanding of matters
economic is zilch. So anything that Andrew has to say in
the economic analysis area he can just put to one side. The
position in regard to what will happen to interest rates is
as I've put it on many occasions and I don't want to bore
your listeners by saying it again at any length. It's
simply I say to them that we haven't got interest rates high
for fun or to hurt, deliberately for the sake of hurting.
They are just there because we've got to lower the level of
activity and imports to a point that we can sustain with our
exports and we will be easing monetary policy, therefore
having lower interest rates, as soon as but not before, we
are confident that that lowering of activity has occurred
and that we can ease of f with confidence. That decision
will be made irrespective of electoral considerations.
McMINN: And Richardson's comment six months?
PM: Richardson doesn't determine election dates or even
economic policy.
McHINN: Alright, we'll take a break.

MCMINN: I'm with the Prime Minister and he's here to
take your calls. The first caller is John. Good morning
John. Oh, by the way. Before I bring John through,
seeing the board is absolutely packed as you'd expect
I'd just ask people if they could keep their comments
reasonably short. Could you please get to your point
quickly and that way everyone gets a chance. The Prime
Minister can be here for another 20 minutes and
minutes only. He has another function to attend at 11
o'clock. On that note, keep them short and give everyone
a go. The first caller is John.
CALLER: Good morning Prime Minister.
PM: Good morning John.
CALLER: I'd like to speak to you about compensation
payments to former Commonwealth employees suffering from
-work-related injuries. Our presenter said keep it short
but I must background the matter if you'd
MCMINN: No John, honestly, I must ask you I'm sorry
but if it's going to be lengthy I'll give you another
chance but it has to be quite short.
CALLER: Could you call five minutes short?
MCMINN: That's far too long I'm sorry. I really am
sorry John.
CALLER: I'll ask the Prime Minister then.
MCMINN: Sorry, look I really am sorry about this and I
don't mean to be rude to anyone but five minutes is a
long time. Michelle. Good morning Michelle.
CALLER: Good morning. Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: Good morning Michelle.
CALLER: I would like to ask you a question about
Medicare but I would just like to make one statement if
you wouldn't mind please.
MCMINN: Please keep it short.
CALLER: I will. That is that I feel that your monetary
policies are hurting Australia badly and I think that
there's a lot of that, people out there, we were hearing
constantly of many businesses going under. I just feel
that you're going to have to have a long and hard look at
things. My question about Medicare is that you tell
people that they don't need private health insurance.
You assume that elective surgery, you know, people can
wait a couple of years to have elective surgery. But we

had a case here recently where a man needed a triple
bypass and because he didn't have private health
insurance he would have had to wait two years. And when
you go to a private
MCMINN: So the question please Michelle.
CALLER: When you go to a public hospital you're asked
whether you have private health insurance and then you're
charged by private hospitals well the health insurance
Why, if we're not meant to have private health
insurance the public hospitals, y'know, charging private
health funds for your visit there.
PM: The situation in regard to Medicare is this, and its
impact on the Australian people. Before we came to
office Michelle there were two million Australians who
had no form of cover at all. You had a position where
you'd had Medibank before. The Conservatives came in and
had five changes of that scheme which had introduced
total confusion and left two million, at that stage, out
of sixteen million Australians without any cover at all.
Now what we've done with Medicare is bring about a total
transformation which means that every person in Australia
is now covered in the case of a need to go to a doctor or
to hospital. There is universality of coverage. It is
equitable in that the scheme is financed, as you know, by
an income tax levy which means that those of us like
myself with higher incomes pay more. Now in terms of
what happens with waiting lists in hospitals, that is a
matter, after massive payments from the Commonwealth to
the States, it's a matter within the State jurisdiction.
And it is the fact that there has been a significant
lessening of time in the hospital waiting lists.
MCMINN: Phyllis joins us now Prime Minister.
CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: Good morning Phyllis.
CALLER: Congratulations on the years and what you've
done with them.
PM: Thank you very much.
CALLER: And also I would like to express, have the West
Germans and the East Germans, is it well known that there
are opportunities for immigration to Australia?
PM: Yes Phyllis it is well known. I was asked this
question at the Press Club the other day. There are two
points quickly, if I could make three points to Phyllis
about this. Firstly of course, like you Phyllis, I guess
you're overjoyed about the fact of what is happening, at
long last after these years of dictatorship that the
opportunity for freedom and liberty is emerging in these
countries, Iron Curtain countries. Obviously if there

are people who wish to come here to Australia the
opportunity will be open to them because we have a nondiscriminatory
program. But I did make the point, which
I think you ought to think about, and that is this. That
essentially these people are patriots I think. They have
been fighting for freedom, for the removal of repression
in their own countries. And I think that the
overwhelming majority of them are going to be thrilled
with the changes that have taken place and will want to
be there and play a part in rebuilding free, democratic,
strong and prosperous nations once more.
MCMINN: Bill. Good morning Bill.
CALLER: Thank you Ian. Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: G'day Bill.
CALLER: After your vehement declaration that you were
going to destroy the pilots federation because they chose
to strike
PM: Well, would you give me the quote on that one Bill
because I'd like to see it, I haven't
CALLER: now declare that you now want the airlines
companies to withdraw the $ 10 million damages suit and b)
would it be the ACTU bringing pressure to bear?
PM: Bill, y'know cynicism is a delightful feature of
Australian politics but it's always a help Bill if you
get your facts straight.
MCMINN: The question that Bill is asking is
PM: I hear what he's asking and I have not said that I
was going to destroy the Federation of Airline Pilots.
So you've got the problem Bill that you've based your
question on a false premise. What I was determined to do
was to stop the Australian Federation of Airline Pilots
destroying the Australian economy. We have succeeded in
doing that. I've been under no pressure from the ACTU on
this issue at all. It's been my own view long before
this dispute that I don't like the idea of damages being
used in the industrial relations system. I didn't
discover that view during this confrontation with the
airline industry. And you would well know that if you'd
been following my public career. That's been my
consistent position. I believe there was a very strong
case for having the action in the court so that there
could emerge, as there has, an independent judicial
assessment of the facts of the dispute. That's been
done. Now that that's been achieved I see no point,
indeed I would argue strongly against damages being
collected. That's the fact and very simple and
indisputably. MCMINN: Jessie, good morning.

CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: G'day Jessie.
CALLER: Tears for Israel. I love Israel too but take
notice of God's promise to his chosen Israel and the Godfearing
people in Australia. God promised ' if you ask me
I will listen to you and help you in time of your
trouble'. A parallel here stubborn, arrogant Israel
and an agnostic, arrogant Prime Minister, tears and all.
PM: Thank you Jessie for those thoughts. That's lovely.
MCMINN: I don't think Jessie's got a question there.
She's got a statement and Irene's next.
CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke.
S PM: Morning Irene.
CALLER: I just want to say a very happy birthday on
Saturday. You and I have one thing in common we were
both 60 on Saturday.
PM: Thank you very much Irene. Well
CALLER: And I want to say all the best. I think you're
doing a jolly good job Mr Hawke.
PM: Thank you very much. It's very kind of you Irene
and I just hope that in your 60 years you've had as much
happiness in this country as I have. We're both lucky to
live in such a beautiful country. But thank you very
much Irene.
MCMINN: John. Good morning John.
S CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke. I'm just wondering why
the Australian Government doesn't take a tougher stand
towards the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the United Nations
or through other diplomatic channels.
PM: Well John, with respect, I don't want to be rude but
I think that your question doesn't really reflect an
understanding of what we have been doing. It's an
extraordinarily complex issue Ian but, and I can't begin
to do justice other than to say this. That it was the
Australian Government through our Foreign Minister Gareth
Evans who has recently advanced a proposal of having an
interim United Nations administration there to handle the
period before the holding of free elections to enable an
independent democratic government to emerge. The reason
why we in fact advanced that proposal John, which is
receiving a degree of support around the world, is
precisely because we are aware of the possible dangers of
the alternative quadripartite proposition for an interim
administration which would include the Khmer Rouge. So

that's the bare outlines of it John. I think if you
understood in fact what specifically we were doing
because of our concern about the Khmer Rouge you wouldn't
express the concern that you have.
MCMINN: Irene, good morning.
CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: Good morning Irene.
CALLER: Look, I never seem to hear any consideration
being give to the 65 plus retiree, non-pensioner, and I
emphasise non-pensioner. There's a lot of us listening
out there. Are you going to be astute enough to give.-us
the fringe benefit health card to help us?
PM: It's not a question of being astute enough Irene.
The question of not only that benefit but other benefits
that are associated with the pensioner card are being
considered and some relaxation has been given at the end
of last year. But in the health card area, that's
CALLER: But not for non-pensioners.
PM: No, I understand Irene. I understand Irene that
you're referring to the non-pensioners. In the decisions
that we made at the end of last year in the Budget, we
did, as I hope you appreciate, make a number of decisions
which has made it easier for the accumulation of savings
in a non-discriminatory way. That was one thing that was
considered but at that time the issuing of the healthcard
benefit to the non-pensioner group was thought to be
too expensive. I appreciate that it would be an
attractive vote winner but there are so many things Irene
that a government could do which would be attractive vote
winners but if you did them all in combination it starts
to be fairly irresponsible economically. But it's
S something that I guess remains on the political agenda
but I would be misleading you Irene if I said it was just
around the corner.
MCMINN: Kath, good morning Kath.
CALLER: Good morning Prime Minister. Happy birthday.
All the best for Christmas for you and your family.
PM: Thank you very much indeed Kath.
CALLER: I'm going to do a Bob Hawke. I'm going to do
three quick points.
PM: Yes.
CALLER: Interest rates, while I think they're high but I
think the people are very well of f today. My mother
struggled during the depression with five per cent and
father was on the sustenance. About the children, no

matter how much money you give some women they would
spend it all and give the children nothing. Third point,
Mr Peacock made a statement about he doesn't run around
with silver tails. Well I don't know what you call the
parties with Lang Hancock and with Mr Elliott at the
races. And have a wonderful time.
PM: Thank you very very much indeed Kath. Thank you.
MCMINN: Alright, well. Three quick points indeed.
Norma. CALLER: Good morning Mr Hawke.
PM: Good morning Norma.
CALLER: I'd like to have a different tack on what
everybody's been talking about. I'm not an Australian
but I think that Australia is a very political country
and every question that has been presented to you this
morning has been political.
MCMINN: Ok.
CALLER: I feel that we should it's your birthday. We
should ask you how you feel as a man and what you ' ye
learnt. MCMINN: Ok, is that the question?
CALLER: Yes, that is the question. What wisdom you have
to offer.
PM: Well Norma, first of all you asked me how I feel. I
feel these things. I feel very fit and well and
physically and mentally very alert and strong. That's
the first thing in terms of my own condition. Secondly I
feel you say you're not an Australian well I am and I
S feel terribly proud of this country, not complacent
because we've got some challenges in front of us. But I
think we have the capacity and an increasing
sophistication to face up to those challenges. Thirdly
because you went to the point about all the questions
being political I don't think that we should be
frightened of being too political. Because in the end'if
we're going, as a nation, to face up to the sorts of
challenges that we have, that is the challenge of
harnessing our resources as well as ensuring that we
protect the environment for future generations, the
challenge of making sure that we become an active,
constructive partner in the Asian-Pacific region. If
we're going to face up to the issue of providing
appropriate educational opportunities for our children,
which is just about the most important thing there is,
all these important things in the end become political
questions. So I feel happy that the Australian people I
think are getting more sophisticated in their political
thinking and their preparedness to face up to issues. So

without being exhaustive Norma, those are some of the
things I feel. Basically I feel proud and confident
about this country.
MCMINN: Prime Minister, there's one question I'd like to
ask you and that was the question of child care. Now, Mr
Peacock in his statement indicated there'd be child care
rebates. A program here that I did a couple of weeks ago
got quite an enormous response in that regard. Is the
ALP as they go into an election year going to try to
match or better the Opposition on child care?
PM: The first thing I will be doing is to ask the
Australian electorate to take account of Mr Peacock's
words in the light of their action. I mean, they've been
in government, they've had the opportunity of addressing
these issues and they were an abysmal failure. In terms
of our approach we have undertaken and have delivered to
provide many many more child care places. And at the end
of this current period we will have created 98,000
additional child care places, which I point out to your
listeners will be a trebling, a trebling of the number of
child care places from those provided by the Opposition.
Now on the question of Mr Peacock's proposals, let's
remember this. That like all of their policies they are
not means tested. They will mean that the resources of
this community will be provided indiscriminately to those
who need the assistance least, the highest income people
by way of the tax rebate approach will get the
assistance, where really it is the lower and middle
income people of Australia who need the greatest
assistance. MCMINN: So you'll be coming out with some program?
PM: I'm just going to conclude by saying we in this, as
in other areas, are not simply going to say our reform
program is complete. We will be addressing further
measures in this area.
MCMINN: So keep your eyes open on that. Margaret, good
morning. CALLER: Good morning.
PM: Good morning Margaret.
CALLER: Recently it was said of the pilots federation
that they were deliberately conspiring to disrupt the
operations of the airlines causing them financial harm.
Aren't the tram drivers doing the same thing now and why
aren't you blasting them?
PM: Well as far as the Melbourne tramway system is
concerned, that is a matter for the State Government.
With the division of powers that we have Margaret in this
country, state transport is a matter for the State
Government and they deal with that. As far as the

airline industry is concerned that is a national problem.
I have to deal with that. And I have dealt with the
airline industry as I thought appropriate. If you've got
any questions Margaret about how the tram drivers have
been handled, well you'll have to get John Cain in here
Ian and allow Margaret to address a question to him.
MCMINN: Alright, I know Prime Minister you're almost out
of time. Sorry to all the people who tried to speak to
Mr Hawke this morning but didn't get a chance. While
I've got you for the next couple of minutes, an
exhaustive amount of material coming out over the weekend
about you and your wife and all that sort of stuff.
After wading through it I thought to myself this morning
what in the hell am I going to ask this man that there
hasn't But I guess there was one sharp division
amongst the people who support you and the people who
detract from you and I guess anyone in the public eye
as long as you would have your fair share of enemies and
S friends. The supporters say you have a vision of
Australia. The detractors say that you're a wheeler and
a dealer and you probably read the quotes James
McClelland is not one of your mates ' he's a mediocre
man with an oversized ego.' So what are you, a visionary
or a wheeler dealer?
PM: Well McClelland ought to look in the mirror at night
and say to himself well I Jim McClelland know and Bob
Hawke knows the reason for his bile and his lack of
impartiality and I laugh whenever I read McClelland's
comment because I know and he knows the reason for his
bile. Look, I think if you ask a man about his vision
after he's been Prime Minister for seven years, the man's
entitled to say look I don't create new goal posts every
12 months. I say, look at what we have done. In 1983 if
I'd been asked for my vision for Australia I would've
given you this answer. My vision is for an Australia
which ceases to be dominated by confrontationalism. In
S 1989 1 can say I have delivered on that vision because we
are not the confrontationalist society we were. I
would've said then that I wanted to have an economy in
which our kids had a greater opportunity of being
educated. Only 36% of our kids then stayed on in school
36%. After seven years of my Government it's 61%.
I've delivered and will continue to have that vision. I
would've said then that I wanted an Australia which was
respected in the region and in the world. You ask any
international organisation, any significant international
leader in 1989 about Australia, in the region and in the
world, about its place as a leader in peace and
disarmament. Let me quote the Secretary-General of the
United Nations Committee on Disarmament. He said to me,
in Geneva, ' if other countries had done as much as your
Government in the area of peace and disarmament, those
issues would've been further advanced than they are'. So
my vision now is a continuation of those things.

MCMINN: And I put it to you that this talk about
retirement to have television programs and talkbacks and
all the rest of it so much nonsense, you're going to
stay there as long as you can.
PM: I'm going to stay there for quite some time with
MCMINN: Paul Keating or no.
PM: Paul is there, an important part of the team, very
important part of the team. I want to be around for
quite a while yet. I love this country. I still think
I've got something to do for it and I'd like to be there.
MCMINN: Alright, thank you for joining me. The Prime
Minister, Mr Robert James Lee Hawke, two days after his
sixtieth birthday.
ends
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