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TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH LIZ HAYES, TODAY PROGAMb,
NORTHERN TERRITORY, 9 AUGUST 1989
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
HAYES: It seems, I don't wish to be cynical, but maybe
these exercises have a touch of the Andrew Peacocks the
war you have when you're not having a war. Do we really
need it?
PM: Do we need the exercise?
HAYES: Yes.
PM: Well, the army and the Government wouldn't be engaged
in an exercise like this which involves so much money unless
it was regarded as necessary. We can't assume that we're
always going to live in a benign atmosphere and if we're
going to have the troops, the airforce, our naval people in
a state where they can discharge their ultimate
responsibility to this country, its defence, then they have
to have the opportunity of training in circumstances which
will best equip them to do that and that's precisely what
this is about.
HAYES: Well, I understand that we can't assume a great
deal, but we do seem to be assuming just who the enemy might
be and we're suggesting that the enemy will only come
through the Top End. I mean, are you prepared to pinpoint
who we're going to be concerned about?
PM: No. I'm not saying who we're going to be concerned
about, but I don't think there's very much chance of an
attack from the Antarctic, particularly after we make it an
international wilderness park and as a matter of logic it
must come from the northern area. That's part of the effect
I'm sorry.
HAYES: I understand.
PM: I'm sorry Liz, just wait a minute, I can't hear you
while that's going over. Better now. Obviously if there is
going to be any danger for Australia it must come from our
northern approaches.
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HAYES: One of the things we do seem to be doing is showing
any potential enemy what we are about. We have observers
from other countries here looking at exactly how we're going
about defending ourselves if the event should ever occur.
PM4: Yes, well it's an eminently sensible thing to do isn't
it? Do you think that we spend all this money on defence,
we have these extremely capable officers and ranks, do you
think we have all those things, that they'd make a mistake
of having someone here that they think is going to be
adverse to our best interests?
HAYES: No
PM: In television we make the assumption that you act in
terms of what you regard as your best interests. You ought
to make the same assumption about the defence forces.
HAYES: Well moving on to the frigate contract, if I can,
and what is our position now that the frigate contract
doesn't necessarily seem as though it's going to go ahead
with New Zealand?
PM4: We don't know what the New Zealand position will be.
We are still hoping that they will accept the responsibility
which is involved, in our judgement, in being part of that
deal. We've been proceeding on that basis. The fact that
there's been a change of Prime Minister doesn't, in my
judgement, necessarily mean that the chances of them
accepting the deal have been diminished. I believe that Mr
Palmer thinks that it is appropriate that New Zealand should
be part of the deal and I hope that will be the decision
because, as I pointed out to his predecessor and as I
pointed out to him yesterday in a brief conversation I had
when he rang me, that it would have unhelpful effects upon
the Australia/ New Zealand relationship if that were not to
be the case.
HAYES: But there is debate continuing and if New Zealand
should decide not to go ahead, do we still go ahead?
PM: Of course we go ahead, there's never been any question
of that.
HAYES: We can afford to go ahead?
PM: How many times do I have to say it, Liz, we're going
ahead. it's a decision that has to be made and it will
be made. It's just much better, not merely in economic
terms, but it's much better in terms of the relationship and
co-operative relationship between our two countries that
they should be part of it. They can't have a position, and
let's be quite frank about it, they can't have a position
where they want to be part of a co-operative defence
relationship between Australia and New Zealand but
essentially do it on the cheap. If they're going to be part
of a co-operative defence relationship which we've sought to
enhance in the circumstances of their withdrawal from ANZUS,
then there are benefits for that in it and there are also
obligations in our judgement.
HAYES: If I could change subjects just slightly and that is
to the rebel rugby union team which may be going off to
South Africa and it would appear as though some Australians
may participate in that, I mean, can you understand that
players may still wonder why they're being asked not to play
when Governments still do trade with South Africa?
PM: The Government doesn't do trade with South Africa. we
have imposed very considerable sanctions on South Africa and
we're doing all that we can, not only in regard to Australia
but to other countries to bring about that position. I'm
not trying to condemn an individual simply because he thinks
that he wants to do something that will gratify himself, I'm
simply saying that like individuals, have to do certain
things which have a broader perspective than just a
perception of their immediate self interests. What is
happening is that, as far as the rest of the world is
concerned and as far as South Africa is concerned, coming an
increasing realisation that they can't continue the
abhorrent regime which denies the eqality of human beings in
terms of opportunity, that that must come to an end and that
these people are not being asked just to advance the
interests of sports, that they're being asked by South
Africa to help to advance their own image and increase their
own acceptability. I ask individuals to understand that, in
a sense, they have responsibilities beyond themselves and I
hope they will do that.
HAYES: Well, we'll leave you on that note, Mr Hawke. We do
thank you for joining us and we hope you enjoy Exercise
Kangaroo.
PM: It's been a pleasure. may I take this opportunity of
saying how all Australians ought to be tremendously proud of
their armed services. I've had the opportunity of seeing
here not only their efficiency, but their commitment and
their pride and I hope that's something that's shared by all
Australians. HAYES: I can say, Mr Hawke, we've also noticed this at
first hand ourselves. Thank you very much.
PM: Thank you very much indeed.
ends