TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH PAUL LYNEHAM, IN KATHERINE, FOR
7.30 REPORT 3 SEPTEMBER 1987
E E 0 PROOF ONLY
LYNEHAM: The Prime Minister's suggestion of a compact
between white and black Australia came during an interview
on Aboriginal community radio in Alice Springs and the
timing of his public comments caught everyone, including
Gerry Hand, the new Aboriginal Affairs Minister, by surprise
not that Mr Hand was anything other than delighted.
Indeed as the day wore on, taking the Hawke entourage north
to Katherine and the Kalano Aboriginal Community, it was
clear that the news of Bob Hawke's suggestion had spread
quickly across the Territory and in many minds had already
taken on the status of a firm commitment. But a commitment
to what exactly? A cosy Claytons treaty aimed at a
trouble-free Bicentenn'ary or a genuine bid to forge a new
relationship between black and white? What's the essence of
the Prime Minister's plan?
PM: The essence is to try and establish in the minds of the
Australian people that the time'. of European settlement
important as it is and appropriate to be celebrated that
200 years comes at the end of 40,000 years of Aboriginal
history and culture and that if we are to properly celebrate
in 1988 we must recognise, as non-Aborigines, the
obligations and the commitments we have to them.
LYNEHAM: would this involve a commitment on the part of the
Government to help them more with things like health,
education and housing?
PM: What I've said is that in the period since we've been
in office in real terms there's been an over 30% real
increase in funding. So the commitment to more funding has
been there. It's demonstrated. I don't have to say yes
we'll do it. We've done that. I think we ought to
continue, within the necessary economic constraints that are
imposed upon government, to continue to do more. But I come
back to the point I started with, Paul. If we think about
this issue just in terms of money then we'll have missed a
large part of the point. It's an attitudinal question. I
think we've got to, as non-Aborigines, just understand, as
I've tried to say from the time I've been in government,
that this 1988, 200 years of European settlement, that that
comes on top of a great history, a great culture, great
traditions of 40,000 years. The attitude has to be right.
But we came here, we came into an existing civilisation if
you like, an existing history and I want to get the
attitudes right.
LYNEHAM: Charles Perkins, Head of Aboriginal Affairs, says
a compact, that sort of idea, is not good enough. He says
we want a treaty that can be written into the Constitution
for all time.
PM: We're used to Charlie putting his points fairly
directly and immediately. As I've said, I'm not trying to
impose a particular view. I want to get the thinking
started. LYNEHAM: But your th inking is, you said yesterday, a treaty
doesn't appeal to you so much.
PM: The main concern I have about it is that people think,
they're insisting, it must be a treaty. They seem to have
the view that the word itself is significant and I think if
you get the attitudes right the words don't matter very much
because you can say we've got a treaty. You can have a
piece of paper and call it a treaty, you can have another
and call it a compact but because one word has compact
on top of it and one has treaty on the other is not going to
mean something different. What it does mean
LYNEHAM: In that case why not call it a treaty?
PM: if you rouse undue expectations by a word, if people
say that of itself is going to do something, I'm not sure
that's wise. It's much more important that we get our sense
of understanding right and then in that sense I'm not hung
up about the word treaty, I'm not going to fight to the last
ditch about that as such. I just have some sense that it's
not the most appropriate word. But let's start thinking,
and certainly I've had a discussion with Gerry Hand about
this and I know he's starting to talk with others, let's
talk about what's the best way of doing it. One suggestion
for instance is that the concept could be embedded into
legislation as part of the preamble to the legislation
establishing the new Commission that we intend to establish.
LYNEHAM: The Commission for Aboriginal Affairs next year?
PM: It's suggested that that could be one way of getting it
some legislative stature.
LYNEHAM: Is that as good as it being in the Constitution?
PM: A lot of things in the Constitution, just because they
are there, don't mean a great deal. I think we're starting
on completely the wrong approach. See what we're doing now,
spending ten minutes talking about a word. It's just a
wrong concept.
LYNEHAM: Have you any thoughts about the idea of some sort
of ceremony or special occasion along with this?
PM: I haven't addressed my mind to that, but provided that
what came out of the processes of consultation could be seen
to be acceptable broadly you're never going to have
something acceptable to everyone then the concept of some
ceremony could be appropriate.
LYNEHAM: But you would see it, in the essence of it, a
sense of white Australia making some recompense to black
Australia? PM: Recompense in one sense, yes, but again don't let's
just get the word of recompense, of payment. That is
obviously a part. We've got to fund programs. But I keep
coming back to the issue. If we just think of it in terms
of money then we've avoided the essence of the problem. In
that sense we've put, let's say that the budget is now $ 200
million. You say, alright and you double it and make it
$ 400 million and you've done your job. That's nonsense.
I'm not saying that in the sense of avoiding the necessity
for financial obligation. But in answer to the question you
just asked, how do you change attitudes, it's not something
you do overnight. But I think if you have Leaders of
Government and I hope of Opposition, the political parties
will accept the concept of obligation, accept the fact that
as we go into 1988 we musn't think of it just as our 200
years of European settlement but in some sense of continuum,
of grasping something new and different into and onto a more
ancient history and civilisation. If we understand the
interraction of obligations then how long that takes, how
you do it, I don't know, but I think it's important that we
start it before we get into 1988.
LYNEHAM: But what difference will the compact make to white
Australia's big birthday party? Does Bob Hawke believe it
will help us to celebrate with a clear conscience?
PM: I think we won't celebrate 1988 properly, I don't think
we'll celebrate properly if we either ignore the previous
40,000 years or if we regard that pre-existing period as
some sort of embarassment. We should recognise honestly
that in our 200 years many injustices have been done to the
Aboriginal people, many injustices, and that no-one is
guiltless about that. It crosses Party lines, it crosses
State lines, it crosses the lines of decades. We've all got
an accumulated responsibility to what's happened and if you
accept responsibility, whether it's in regard to Aborigines
or any area where you've got the first step in being
able to live properly is to recognise your responsibilities.
You've then got a much more likely chance that you're going
to do something about that responsibility and in a sense be
at peace yourself. That's human nature isn't it.
ends