PRIME MINISTER INTERVIEWED BY GLENN TAYLOR -BRISBANE CH. 7
STATE AFFAIR WEDNESDAY 24 OCTOBER 1984
TAYLOR: At this stage -its early in the campaign but nevertheless
aeveral subjects have emerged as alection iaques
Already. Some of them have been raised right bero in
Queensland welcome to you'Prime Miniater.
Tax seems to be becoming predominant as the isBU* and
an-you used yo'urself the ex pression the politics of
fear today it is almost a situation of countervaLlinig
fear. The fear on the one hand of Labor's capital
gains tax on t~ he other hand, your fears of indirect taxes
by a coalitionk oovernment.
PM4: Well I don't think that adequately analyses what will1
be In the mind s of the. eleectorate with regard to ta~ x as
ana issue.. I liave made it ~ quite clear that I'm happy
abo~ ut tax plaing a prominent part but it will be only
a part tbut the electorate'will see of the major il3sua
In their mind, that Is the : economy the management of'
the economy@ What's happened iince M~ arch of 1983
under ' us, includini what we've done in tax and comparIng
that with the record of out, predacessors and within that
context X'm more than happy that they should talk about
-tax because they have the 4orst record on tax of any
government in the history 6f Federation.
TAYLORI: But is there qny substance IT the fears raised about a
capita, gains*! tax In view Of statements raised by
Senator Butto4 and also M-r'Stonol
PH4: No basis for fear at all. On the contrary I have made
it clear over, home period, ' before the election was even
called that~ w w ere undertaking a thorough-going roview
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ove3rhaul, begicnning the processesb of an overhaul
Of the tax system. See wbiat you've tot to remember
1B that over toe last thirty-five years in this
country since 1949-, for* 30 6f those years the
conservatives have been in power, the existinlg tax
system to a very large extent represents 30 years of
conservatism. The people of Australia reckon its
unfair the exiatirig tax'system, and they're right,
so what I've been saying 1B that we will have a procoss
of review, eivb the people the opportunity of saying
what tbey want. 2 to look at, !# hat they think may be
appropriate, and we have said within that the peopJle
will want to tallk about tbe possibility of * a capital1
gains tftx. No bringinS in. of' a now tax that doeSnk't
exist, there's a capital gains tax there now. Whitt
a lot of people are concerned about is tbat the tax
avoidance induatry, which hais flourished under the
liberals has cost the ordinary taxpayer billions of'
dollars over the last tew years because the Liberals
vouldn't-smash'it. There 4s. some sugsostion that
some refinements of that exiating qapital'tax law may
be desirable to really help: have the complete armoury
against tax avoidance, VWetre simply saying that In
the review that should take place and in which the people
will be able to be* involved, that's Something that can
be looked at.
TAYLOR~: So all optlons will be opon and one of tihose options
may be a capital gains tax.*
What I'm saying is there is a capital gains tax, the
conservatives bad a capital gaing tax, they support a
capital gains tax Its there. . And Mr Peacock s& y-3
he supports the existing bapital. gains tax. What lie
is saying he wbuldul't look ' at anything. which would help
010se down the, tax avoidance industry rurther. Noll I
believe the overwhelming majority of Australians Wotild
*/ 3
I 3.
TAYLOM. PM: T'AYLOR: PM': like to have o+ n in a tax review a looking-~ at that
existing law tb . gee whether" any changes in that
may make for'a. more efficient fight against'tax
avoidance. They would regard this government
as being very,: very short In Its duty It it closed off
the option of having that investigated,
Coming back to my original j oint, if people shouldn't
wuorry too miuch about a capitalgainstax, what do they
have to fear ' riouj the Liberale indirect taxes that you
say they have in their-pac~ cage?
Well I suppoae'no words are more eloquent in saying what
they've got to fear than the vords ot Mr Hloward on the
12th of March 1981 in the Federal Parliament when he told
the people of Australia what they had to fear. * He said
why the government then wouldn't move in this direction,
He'said we havb refused to nove in the direction of' this
increase in indirect taxes because it would mean economic
disaster, it w~ uld moan more inflation and the undoing
of gene'ral ecooomic policy: He was right then and I
simply ask tbe' people of Aubtralial and Mr Howard In
particular, was he telling the truth in March 1981.
If he was, qnd he was, what,' s 4ifferent in December 1984?
to on the one band wehave the apectre of capital gains
-being raised 4~ the Liberal Party and on your side the
bpectre offndirect taxes with those sort
I've dealt with capital gains, here we have the reality
of thOese . people the conserv . atives, liberals and national
party have said they've had twelve ibobths and they've
said that this: ie a well-thought-out policy through
12 months, and; that well. 4hought-through policy is
. exactly the policy which three years ago Mr Howard said
was a recipe for economic disas'ter. ' He also said on
Monday night# ' after launcin. g it'on the. Monday, he said
that this was An appropriate policyt one where the Prime
Minister would get tax relief of $ 65 and the lower-income
and a lot or otiher people get nothingt Now that came after
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TAYLOR: PH:
TIAYLOR: PM: # 40/ 5
12 4onths of th ' inking and the next day someone got
onto him and said weld bette'r not say that so he
put out tswo new* PPess releases saying it's not that,
way. If you get re-*; lectod to off-ice, bearing in mind
that there wa thirty years -of a cumbersome tax
system that hasilt been changed or modified in any
greatway, how soon would you review change, reforat
it' you like, 0 th. e Australian taxation system?
Well I think th. Australian people want us to do it
carefully they won't be wanti4ng uto rush in
so I would be thinaking that we would Invite the peoiple
of Australia to'be involved. with us in this process,
and at some poi Int during 1985 to have a more detailed
opportunity of : being Involvad in that process. loll
be-baying a little bit wore.* about this in come detail1
within a matter: of days so that the people will have
some concept ot. the tiioet~ ble before them,
So it's3 going to be tax reform by consensus?
or Courseb I mean what's distinguiahed the Australian
economy under 4~ govlernment, what's made It the most
sUccessful ecor~ omy In the world, the fastest-growing
econ~ omyin the world, is precisely that's the way we
went about fit. I didn't s~ t in Canberra'and say look
this is good : idea, that'ls e good idea, that's a good
ideal here it is it's done1 : Vve talked and my Ministers
have talked witjh the trade tinions, with tbe business
community, with the States, with local government, and
we have got ou? 4 ideas together and4 got a large degree
* of consenous. Now that'd worked for the Australian
people, it's made us the fast6st.-growing economy in the
world. Now the Australlan. poople. are going to want us
to have the sam~ e sort of approach to share their thinking
with us and our thinking with them. It' worked and
iI.
-it will work again.
TAYLOR: Mr Hawke, ft'ssaid that a government's as good as
the oppositionthat keeps it on its toes, yet you
point to having sO much support, and the opinion polls
tend to back that up, is there a danger then, not or
3ust' smugness but of perhapp almost lax governmept?
PMf. No,. there's no danger of lax government because we
have our own integrity and incentive to good government.
We have a commtment to the welare of the people of
Australia but in a sense you do touch on a relevant
point. It is a tragedy. think that the Opposition
is so one'ncoonpetent and b untunod-nto the concerns
of the Australian olectorate. See in the Opposition
we'. ve been aitfing there in the government we've been
Mitting there . aiting for the Opposition, week after week,
to ask quostions of Miniisters about their economic
management of the country. We never ge theme Now
I think it is the case that Hinristers would be more
alert in the parliament, be more on their toes, if they
knew that each:* day they wer, to be asked questions.
So it is a ter'ible innult to the Australian people by
the Opposition to be going on with this question about
crime, spending weeks and weeks sayingfthat I'm a c'ook
and controlled'bycrooka and that sort Of nonsense
everyone knvse that's not true, and yet that's what took
up their time'
TAYLOR: You claimed to1ay that the Liberals are afraid to
campaign on tbe economy. They seem to have been
campaigning prptty heavily and they've pushed tax,
capital gains ' and Other taft'atton mattersto the toretronto
FPM: o the're not talking aboiit, the economy, they are
saying that lr the future they are putting up a fear
campaign.-look this Is what the government might do
in the future: They're nct talking about the economy
and our eoonomic management they you cast you're mind
back, what bave they had to say during the campaign
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about the economiic performance6 of' Australia from
March 83 until', November Whtave they bad
to say about it?' No no yoj're saying they are
talki2hg about the . economys yell I'm asking youthey've.
talked~ about so . me-. future poosi~ bility with
regard to tax, and I'm sayiing you tell me where
they've talked, about the economy, what's happened
betueen March 63 and now., they haven't. They haven't
in the parliament and they ha'ien't in the cimpaign.
Why? Because they know thAt you can't attack a
government whic~ h has px'odueod the highest rate of
e cQlnomi'c growt in the world, which io so markedly
apectacular4L more succooful than they were
in government,:
Now do-you see the non-. Labor vote going in Oubensletnd?
Those people'who, no matte what you say, aren't go'ing
to vote for Bob Hawke?
There are some of those yes', ' of course, Itis very
d~ jrricult to tell at this stae because Queensland's
going to be a very fascinating' State because the
greatest bltteik-xtos and heat Is not going'to be between
the non-Labor arties and Labor its between theq Liberals
a nd the National Party up hero, that's one level of the
bitterness; and tbe . other. eV ol . ia of the Federal Liberals
and Nationals against the Sita Nationali. ir Job
bjelke-Feteraen bias said b kin May that he didn't want
to appear on the same platform as Mr Peacock and they're
having a fight aB to who is the mroe moral whether it's
inclair js more moral ' tban Hr Peacock or whethoir
they're both a'Unificafltly 1-ess moral than Sir Joh
so we're goinj to have groat debates and rights between
thou4. Now how the non-Labor vote will be split up in
thosep circumstnces is hot ( or me to asay, but its gobing
to be interesting to watoh the brothers togother,
Can I * et youton. one specific Issue as it affects
Queensland t hat or land righta,, whore the Queensland
t6e~ n very much against land rights Whitt's
your opinion on that?
TAYLOR: PH I
TAYLOR:
PM: Yes. I mlade i* quite cloa'r over recent times our
position on this. The people of Australia,-inclueling
the people of* 9ueansland, in 967 passed referendum,
by an overwhelioing majority' that responsibility for
land rights should be with the Federal Parliament
and that i's a concurrent po1~ er, but that there should
be power In the Federal Parliament. How that was In
1967, not under a Labor SoVenmento under a conservative
government a Liboral-National Party government I
think they pro6ably called themselVes the Liberal..
Country Piarty.. They went to the poople of Australiap
in~ 196? 1 and sAid it ia a popriate that the national
ptarliament shodld have legi~ lative power over land
rights: n~ ow what I am saying and aa the inheritor,
of the power given to me. and to the. na~ ional parliament
by the Liberaland Hational'Party,. I've inherited the
power tboy gav6 TIm paying that* I will not seek to
impose that poWer, -I'm sayipig that. I will consult
VIth the States, that V11l pqnsult with the Aboriginal
people, .11l c~ nault with tire miners,, I'll consult with
the r'armers that proceP6' bas been going on. We' 1ve
demonstrated in Western AU~ tP41ia-that we can get agreement
with the minerb1 farmers an the S'tate government. Now
my Minister will continue this prooosof negotiation
qaid consultation uith the State of Queensland and if all
other statoo cbn,' throush that process of consultation,
reach agreement, I suppose It's leg~ itimato to hope that
that may happen ina Queehidla~ 1d too.
* TAXLOR.; Bob Havkel thank you ' very much for joini-ng us on
-State Affair.
ends