INTERVIEW WITH MARK DAY 3AW, 4.20PM, THURSDAY 11 OCTOBER 19: 34
E. O. E. PROOF ONLY
MD Before you came on the line I was saying that I thought
you probably pinched yourself wih disbelief at this morning's
headlines; the Hawke Government on the latest Poll results could
be returned with a 78 seat majority and on the same Poll results
even a chance of grabbing power fn the Senate. Do you place
much store by those Polls?
PM Oh one takes a lot of acqount of the polls Mark, but riot
in a complacent way. There is ar identity of polling at the
moment between the Bulletin poll ' and the poll in the Age which
has it at 55% and obviously one would prefer to be there than
lower. As I say there is no complacency, we have got a campaign
to go into now and I will be taking the Australian electorate into
my confidence, talking to them about our record of achievement and
comparing what we have done with the alternative and seeking to
translate the confidence that quite clearly does exist now into
the final poll that matters, the ! ballot box.
MD Would you expect some natural evening up of things as the
campaign progresses. If you look at political history, that
tends to happen.
PM No what you tend to get in the actual campaign, I think
is often a strengthening of government position but I believe.....
MD How much more can you strengthen?
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CONT.... PM Oh, well in politics if ou're dinkum in your approach
to the people you go flat out to do the best you can. That's what
the electorate expects of you. You would be insulting the electorate
Mark if you win in a half-hearted way, and I know the people
don't expect that of me. We believe that the Australian electorate
has already made a judgement about the Opposition. They have
repudiated, I think massively repudiated the tactic of smear and
innuendo and baseless allegations which seem to have become an
intrinsic part of the approach of this Opposition and its leader.
I think that the people don't like that and are not going to like
it in the future.
MD I said in my opening preamble before you came on that I
think there are a couple of stor clouds, not enough to put you
out of government or business, but I detect and leaving aside the
rights and wrongs of the assets tlest debate, I detect that there
is a ection of the community and possibly a large section of the
aged community which does fear or feel fearful that the government
is putting their pensions at threat. Now I don't say that that's
correct, but would you agree that the fear does exist?
PM In a small section there has been the fear created by the
totally untruthful fearmongerini of the Opposition who have tried
to suggest that there are going to be inspectors coming into the
homes of pensioners. They know that that's not true. In fact, 98%
of pensioners will not be affected by the assets test. As the
month of November goes on and the forms go out, the information goes
out the, overwhelmingly, that 98% of pensioners will come to
understand that they are not adversely affected. What will also
be clear as the campaign goes on is that the Opposition basically
Ss upports an assets test. Mr Howard quite clearly supports an assiets
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test. All he has said, he doesn't support the particular proposals
that have been put forward. But he clearly supports and assets
test. As does Mr Elliot the leading figure and another contendent
for the leadership of the Opposition, a leading figure in the
Liberal Party. They know that as the society develops we have
a larger proportion of aged people we've got to make sure, any
government has to make sure that' the resources it has for payments
in the social welfare area are kept as far as possible for those
who most need the support of the community and that we shouldn't
waste and dissipate those resources on a very, very wealthy asset
rich minority.
MD You do you fear any back ash from the passionate stand that
the ant-nuclear people have takep on the government's policy on
Uranium and the export of uranium.
PM No, there are two things to be said about that. Firstly
that I think increasingly, and all the polls show this on the
issue, a clear majority of voters support our position on uranium.
A very clear majority, but secondly, I would say that more and more
people are coming to understand that you must distinguish between
the peaceful uses of uranium for the purposes of generating power
which is one of the underlying cbnditions of the non-oliferation
treaty to which Australia is a signatory and the question of
nuclear-disarmament. There is no government in the history of
this country who has done more to put issues of disarmament at
the forefront of their priorities in the conduct of International
Affairs. We have done that and people are increasingly understanding
this distinction. Then the 3rd point of course is that while some
may give their first prefeences. to the Nuclear-disarmuamfent Party
more
or the Democrats on this issue, tjhey know that as between this
Labor Government and the Conservative coalition that the Conservative
Coalition position is infinitely more unacceptable than ours.
MD That's the ultimate irony isn't it? Even though they
might not like your policy they have got nowhere to go.
PM Well, if they are being objective about it, if they want
to take their feelings to the point of registering a first preference
vote for thc NDP ultimately, bot oon altornative governmantg. T
is the Labor Government which is infinitely more committed to
pursuing the path of Nuclear disarmament negotiations than the
Conservatives.
MD Could it have a negative'affect on you in the Senate voting?
PM Well, no, the they wilt not get enough votes to get a
representation in their own right and the same argument I've put
just applies, I think.
MD Yes. From what you said in Parliament today, about the
complete review of taxes and forms of taxation, it would seem that
you are not fearful of a 1980 style backlash against Labor on a
capital gains tax.
PM No because I have made i4 quite clear that we have no
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committment to particular forms of taxation change.
MD But there is difference when comparedto your 1983
policy speech where you had a very firm committment to no capital
gains tax.
PM The position is that the e has to be a review of the
whule taxation system and in that review groups in the community
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the business group, trade unions, welfare organisations, will be
wanting to put there proposals in regard to taxation, What I have
said on behalf of the government; that we have no pre-committments.
You can not pre-judge community consultation and say what is going
to happen that is silly. If I were to say, well we won't look at
that, we won't look at that, then you are making a mockery of the
process of community consultation; I
MD The Labor party has been called a high tax party from
time-to-time.
PM Well, incorrectly, of course because the highest taxing
1 party in government has been the iberal National Party coalition.
It was in their last two years of government that the tax take was
at the highest percentage of all time. Our tax take as a proportion
of GDP when you exclude as you must do the medicare levy, because
the medicare levy is merely substitution of what people were paying
out in private insurance payments' for that exclusion our take
iSs less than the last two years of the Liberal National Party
S Government. MD Ye, I think it really culd be described though as a
matter of perception. Public perbeption that the money has to
come from somewhere now this morning Mr Keating is quoted as
pledging to reduce the deficit now to my way of thinking that
means either a government has to reduce its services or get a
greater income. Now doesnt a greater income mean...
PM With respect Mark, I don't wish to be rude, -btt you don't
understand basic economic analysis. You can achieve the
position of a lower deficit and no increase in the overall level
of taxation provided that your gross in outlays is lower than the
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economic growth in the period inrquestion, and that is exactly
the committment that I have madv ' wid the Treasurer has made. In
the next budget, we will further reduce the deficit without increasing
the overall level of taxes because the gross in outlays will be less
than economic growth.
MD So in other words, yes e~ onomic growth provides you with
a greater income.
PM Yes of course it does.
MD Well, now that was what was getting to. I was going to
say, how are going to get that g eater income? Which you have
just explained.
PM Well I don't know whether you want to use your program
as a sort of means of having an qconomic disiertation to you, but
I just assure you that the facts' basic economic analysis is
quite simple. If you have got an existing level of deficit, and
outlays and taxes, and you are ir a position of economic growth
which is what we have produced aJ distinct from the stagnation
of the past then you can have a eduction in the deficit and no
increase in the overall level of Itaxation any further real
you can do that by ensuring that tas you go into the next period
the growth in outlays that takes place is at a lower level than
the rate of growth because it if You do that it mean6 that you
can have, as I say, a reduction of the deficit. We have in fact,
in two years, reduced the deficit; from the 9.6 Billion that
was what we were inheriting and we reduced that in our first
year to 8.4 billion, now for this' current year we have reduced it
to 6.7 billion down from 9.6 to; about 6.7, a reduction in the
deficit of 3 billion dollars in 2, years.
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MD As you go into this review of types of taxes what will
be the basis of your decsion makiig?
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PM Well, it'll be the same b4sis as we have so spectacularly
successfully employed in our peri6d in office. That is that we
will have meaningful consultationj with representative groups
in the community and try and move as far as we can to a consensus
of view about what is the most appropriate set of decisions to take.
Planning
I have already started that process Within the EconomictAdvisory
Council where the business community and the trade unions and
welfare organisations, State governments and Local governments are
represented. So the process of consultation is begun, it will
continue both within the Economic Planning Advisory Council
and in more broadly based forms and we will listen and analyse what
the groups in the community are t lking about and suggesting and
as a Government will then move tn; mTake the decisions which reflect
the wishes of the community according to the 2 criteria which
are relevant in regard to tax. T at is a tax system which is going
to satisfy the requirements of economic efficiency and equity.
MD After the first summit, iimediately after you were elected
you set up EPAC the consultative organisation, do you see any need
possibly for a new summit, perhaps early next year?
PM Well no I don't see it at this stage as being necessary,
but then I don't preclude it, the Economic Planning Advisory Council
is if you like Mark the summit concept in a reduced
MD Mini form
PSM Mini form, yes thats right Mark. Its on a statutory basil
we've established a very efficient secretariat to service the
EPAC, but I don't preclude the idea that as we go on further it may
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be a useful idea to have another summit so the Australian community
can review the very significant achievements how we have turned
the economy and the society arouid and on the basis of that to
get view about the next stage. That is a possibility, but we
have made no specific plans at this point for it.
MD How long do you think tho accord can hold up if we
continue at the current rate of growth or recovery. Not being an
economist I don't know quite which word to u. se. But if we keep
going along well, as we have been, and productivity lifts how
long before the unions say hey, we want a share of this action?
PM Well I have every confidence that the accord will hold
because you see we are now into the second year of strong economic
growth, and in the past what has happened in Australia because we
haven't had this consensual approach which I developed, Lhe; i
unions and businesses have broke out and tried to make higher claims,
either by way of significant wage increae claims or in the other
side by pricing decisions which increase shares. But now there
h4L uuu tho rualioation on thc pcart of the busainess c6mmunity and
the trade unions that they are better off and the community is
better off if they excercise restraint in the claims they make upon
thec ommunity's resources. The business community is better of' now
than it has been for a decade, the levels of profitability are
back to what they were at the en4 of the 60' s and 1970' s. The
trade unions have seen a situation where employment has increased
1
h million new jobs, today's employment figures are very, very
Sgratifying, again show significant improvement. The trade unions
are better off, the business cormunity is better off, so I have
no doubt that the accord is going to hold.
MD But I would have thought that if profitability started
booming and getting better than ijust recovering to late
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levels then somewhere along the line Mr Dolan would say,
now is the time for us to do away with a dgPree of wago restrain L?
PM No, well, you can say that. All the evidence, factual
Sevidence, is to the contrary. The ACTU has firmly expressed its
Scontinuing committment to the accord. Now I don't think you have
any justification for saying th4t hhving adhered to their committment
now, right through this period, they are going to break that
committment. You've got no right to question their integrity.
MD No, I don't question their integrity.
PM What I'm saying is that they have specifically made the
Sd ecision that they remain committd to the accord, I accept their
Sc ommittment.
MD Okay, Mr Hawke, I know thot you are pressed on time,
Because you were late coming on I must get moving.
MD No, we were here,... One question please if I may. Mr
Peacock yesterday put out a list f 120 broken promises, have you
had time to go through the 120 and do you agree you've broken any
of them?
PM NO The media have dealt vith that, they have been
extraordinarily dismissive about Mr Peacock's list because it started
of with one which by any definition could not be a broken promise.
So it is a fact that because of the gross deception that was practised
by Mr Peacock's government of which he was a part when we went into
the last election campaign they eceived us and the Australian
community to the extent of 3.6 billion dollars and we inherited
therefore not a deficit situation bf 6 billion that they were
telling everyone but 9.6 billion apd so that imposed an enormous
amount of constraint upon us. I s id on the last Wednesday of Lhe
election campaign at the National ress Club and it went out to the
more
whole of Australia that if, in fact, we found that we had been
decieved then we would have to review the program that we promised,
and that's what we have responsibly done. The basic promise
that I made, that is to turn the; economy around from stagnation
to growth, has been achieved and! in part has been achieved because
we had to shape our program to tbe situation we inherited and
that basic promise has been magnificently achieved. When we
inherited office with economic stagnation, rocketing unemployment,
I turned that around instead of how being a stagnant economy we
have the fastest growing economy in the world. Instead of a
growth of unemployment of kmilliqn in the year before we came to
office we have increased the number of jobs by a 4 of a million.
Instead of 11.2% inflation that we inherited we have halved inflation.
SW e have brought interest rates dcwn, These are the basic committments
I made to the community overall and underlying all those magnificent
economic achievements has been the basic achievement. I said we
* i would bring Australia together. We would end the confrontation
and the divisiveness of the past. We have achieved that, we
have delivered that promise, and pn the basis of the delivery
of that promise all other, all the other results have flowed,
MD Mr Hawke, I think you just made a campaign speech. On
that note, I would say thank you very much fur coming on the program
and I hope we will be talking more during the campaign.
PM Allways good to talk to you Mark.
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