PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT WEDNESDAY, 14 APRIL 1982
INTERVIEW WITrH JUNE BARTON MORNING EXTRA
Quest ion
Good Morning Prime Minister and thank you for joining us in
the program.
Prime Minister
( inaudible)
Question Sir, we are obviously facing uncertain economic times, what
is your assessment of the Australian economy?
Prime Minister,
inaudible.... in the Australian economy. The country has
grown. In spite of what people might want to say, the after tax
household disposable income of Australian families has been risi-ng
and there is a great deal of investment taking place. Investment
gives us the basis for rising living standards and greater
wealth for Australia in the years ahead. So, there are many
strengths and there are also problems, and I imagine there always
are in the management of an economy. The problems I think
are basically twofold. The extent of wage increases, coupled
with shorter hours and the worst of this has occurred over
the last 10 to 12 months. Now that has put cost pressures
into the Australian economy at -the very -time when overseas
countries are becoming more competitive, when they are
have been getting very low wage settlements, very often because
of very high and tragic unemployment. So, we have been becoming
less competitive, while overseas countries are doing things
better, producing their goods more cheaply. The other thing
that makes it difficult for Australia and indeed, makes, it
difficult for every country around the world, is lack
of growth in major industrial economies, the United States
and in the major countries in Europe. That again of course
makes it harder to sell Australian goods. It means that we
need to do what we can do better and make sure that we remain
competitive. These are the twin problems, the sluggish
world economy and costs that have been rising too much in
Australia over the last 12 months.
Question So those pundits which are saying that we are in a mild
slump, recession or heading towards a depression, in your view
they are not correct? / 2
-2
Prime Minister
I think this is over-. stated. There are problems that we have
to face, we have to understand what is possible. A few weeks
ago in the Parliament I sought to get a degree of balance into
the national debate on what is happening both in Australia
and overseas. There are some countries overseas that are in a
far, far worse situation than in Australia because again while in
this country the economy has been growing-we have been producing
more as each year passes over recent times.-Zi number * of other
countries, whether it is the United States or Germany or the
United Kingdom there is no growth in their economies at all.
Indeed, in a. number of areas they have been producing less than
in earlier times. In the United States about four years ago they
would have produced 15 million automobiles in their industry,
last year they produced 7 million and there is massive unemployment
in their motor industry, in spite of a fair degree of protection.
In the home building industry in the United States, the number
of new houses being built or started is running at about
of what it would have been two years ago. If you put that
against the situation in Australia, we are infinitely better
off. Question Prime Minister we do have severalcallers already waiting to
speak with you, so with your permission we will go ahead with
the first one.
Prime Minister
Yes that is fine.
Question From Nafra in Victoria, Mrs Anne Bradbury you are now speaking
to the Prime Minister.
Caller-Mr Fraser this is a thought regarding unemployment, relief
of unemployment. If . parenting was taught somehow in an
expert way, by way of the media, and TV especially at night
in a fun way, in a concentrated way by the direction of experts
mothers and fathers would know how to raise children in a
fun way. Especially fathers, if they could be shown h-ow to
help, and mothers would be more content to stay in the ome
and that would make more jobs available to the males, who are
after all best suited to bring home the necessary means of
support. It is just that we are so bored at home. We get
too much ( inaudible) I was a nurse for a very long time
and/ IlJwas happy in it. I did not want to be married because
it is always a gamble, but when I did get married and suckled
two children, it was the greatest joy. But now that they are
teenagers and heading out into the world, I worry how they will
be employed. If I could just teach the mums, please stay
at home. But on the other hand, we have to teach the fathers.
Question What is your response to this? / 3
-3
Prime Minister
I think this is an interesting suggestion and obviously
Mrs Bradbury is voicing things which I think are probably in
many peoples' minds, how to bring up kids in a world that can
be difficult, that can be very competitive. * At one point I
thought Mrs Bradbury was saying we almost needed a school for
parents and I am not sure if I am interpreting her remarks...
Question I think perhaps Mrs Bradbury is saying parents should be taught
how to be good parents.
Prime Minister
A very large number of parents of course are and this probably
comes to people instinctively, but if parents believe they want
help, guidance, I would agree with Mrs Bradbury that ought
to be available. That can partly come I suppose in talking
with friends, but there are also-family guidance organisations
which are prepared and able to give advice, how much they
can help in the specific circumstances Mrs Bradbury had in mind,
I am not too sure because I have not tried them.
Question Thank you sir, we will move on to another caller. Still from
Victoria, from Talamba, Mr Mctrrison.
Caller-South west Tasmania is part of the national estate which
requires the Federal Government to ensure that no part of the
national estate is destroyed if feasible and prudent alternatives to
proposed threatening action exists. However, you have publicly
stated that. the decision on whether the Franklin or more of
the Gordon Rivers will be flooded is a matter for the STate
Government. It seems to me that this is a clear abrogation of
Federal responsibility in this matter and it seems thatthe
Federal Government should intervene.
Prime Minister
The Heritage! Commission Act affects the activities of Federal
Government Departments and agencies, it does not impinge on
state government departments and agencies and the states
have always made these decisions in the past. Tasmania has
had a referEndum on the issue, although I know there are
questions about the basis of that particular referendum
and this really is a decision that has got to be resolved in
Tasmania. It is capable of being resolved in Tasmania and
there you bE! very real difficulties stepping in on top of
this kind of decision. / 4
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Caller one state government has already fallen over in this matter
seems to indicate that they are not able to resolve the
matter satisfactorily there.
Prime Ministerarea, it is not
If a government is responsible for a certain/ good enough to
say well we have got to go to another government to get them
to fix it, because just because one government may not be
giving the kind of answers or making the kind of decisions
that a person or a group of people want. This really is a
matter that needs to be argued out in Tasmania. There is an
election on and I have got no doubt that this is going to
be a matter of higrh politics during the course of the Tasmanian
election. Question We have a number of callers trying to get through, so please
try to be a little patient. From the Central west of
NSW we have Mrs Webb from the town of Forbes.
Caller-Mr Fraser at the moment tax reform is on the Parliamentary
agenda and I was wondering is there any good reason why
income tax cannot be abolished and a value added tax inposed on luxury
goods only, not food, or reasonably priced clothing or shoes.
In this way the lower salary population would not be taxed
at all. I feel that as every week goes by and you hear
somebody in some occupation saying they only want to work
so many days a week because of the tax burden. This goes even
into the prcofessional field, dentistsand doctors and I think
that it would get Australians working and create more jobs
because as they would save they would have the money to buy
the luxury g~ oods, I mean also the high priced clothing.
Naturally people who are used to buying that type of clothing,
they are not, going to buy cheaper clothing. I believe too
there are qv. ite a number of aged people with considerable
sums of monEy in banks that they don't want any interest on
because it takes away their pension benefit and this is money
that perhaps, could be used in cheap housing loans.
Question What is your response to this Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
I think it i~ s a very nice idea, but I just don't think the
figures would work. The countries that do have a value added
tax or a retail turnover tax, do put that tax on virtually
everthing that is sold in their countries because if they did
not do that they would not be raising enough money to carry on
the business of government, supply schools, hospitals and roads
and all the rest. The amount of money that you could get from
luxury goods by taxing them is not allthat great. The present
sales tax rate on luxury items is already about 30%, but there
are not enough of those goods sold to give the revenue that
you would need and that is why in overseas countries which
do have a value added tax, they basically put it on all goods
that are sold, and not only on goods, they often put it on
services. If you are out in restuarants, or going to a
drycleaners or whatever, there is a tax on the services that
are provided through those sort of activities. If you were
going to lower income tax substantially, you would need to put
an indirect -tax across the broad range. of goods and services
and it would need to be quite a substantial one and it
would add at least-. in the short term very significantly
to inflation. To give you a rough order of figures, to take
one cent off the standard rate of tax costs the revenue about
$ 700 million. About 1% on a retail turnover tax or a value
added tax, might provide about $ 6 or 700 million in revenue.
That is a rough order of figures, but you are dealing in very,
very large sums. So, you are going to have to replace a huge
amount of revenue if you want to abolish income tax. I must
say I would : Love to be able to do it, it would be a wonderful
idea. Caller-I understand that, but what about the aged people? Could you
give them more confidence in their savings by not taxing them
on their interest of their money, if they were to invest their
money in a section of the bank that was to go to cheap housing
loans. They would have that little confidence. I think mainly
aged people when they get to the age of retiring they just
want that little bit of security to know that their funds
are not being; eaten away. IF they could invest this money openly
to help the housing burden and not'be taxed on that income.
Prime Minister
This is one of the things that we did look at when we were
introducing t~ he revised housing package, but up to this point
we decided, that we should not pursue that path. We have
indexed pens-.. ons and are' doing tha-E twice a year. We have introduced
an income test only for pensions and did away with the asset
test on capital to try and achieve the very thing that Mrs Webb
is talking about, to try and give elderly people a degree of
insurance in their older years. If you are going to enable
older people to invest money and get the income off it and
not have that: count for pension purposes, there
are some contradictions if you are not going to make the
same allowance for people who might be able to earn a bit of
money by doing a bit of part time work, maybe handicraft and
selling it. So, you have got a question of equity then, between
different groups of elderly people and it is not one that
is necessaril~ y easy to solve. / 6
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Question
We will move on to southern NSW to Wagga, where Mr SchaunanbergC?
is waiting to speak with the Prime Minister.
Caller I have done a few jobs in my life and I have been concerned
about the unemployment of young people. I think we all are.
NrV1 it has been proved to me that if you have been idle for
a time they have got some opportunities to learn some bad
habits regarding future job personnel are concerned. Unfortunately
even if they are only out of work for 12 months, you don't
get your real good type of work person out of that person
that is my general experience. If concerns me also that
on the other end of the-.-scale nearet to retirement age, you
get people who would like to retire if they were only
eligible fcr a pension. If we reduced our elegibility, instead
of retiring at 65 but 60, that we can reduce the unemployment
ratio and open up jobs for young people. I would like to
have. your thoughts on that please.
Prime Minister-
The question of young people being able to find jobs is
obviously a very serious one and it is a very important one.
I think we need to bear in mind that a large number of young
people go on-to universities or colleges. A large number
also find work for themselves in their last year of school
but there is a group of young people in each age group who
do find a very real degree of difficulty. What we have been
doing here is to try and develop in co-operation with the
state governments school to work transition programs, different
kinds of education programs, vocational training programs
which will give young Australians a better opportunity to
gain useful employment. About 220,000 to 230,000 Australians
go through these courses in the period of a year so that the
programs are reaching out to a large number of people and
they are costing quite a lot of money. One of the things
that is involved here is having secondary schools better
able to suit the needs and the talents of all1 thepeople who
go to those schools. For so long people thought that going to
a university was the answer to everything, education at
secondary shcools was orientated towards an academic career
and helping people to get to university and the schools as
a result were not paying enough to other young Australians
who might not be all that good academically, but they had
different talents of a different kind, but those talents were
not being developed or encouraged at schools because the
schools were not properly organised. Attention has been drawn
to this by the Schools Commission and with the School to
Work Transit-ion Program and with an increasing awareness that
schools have got to try and provide courses that suit the
talents of all their students. not just of the academically
minded, I hcpp that we will get into a better . position and
provide better training for young Australians. It takes a
/ 7
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while unfortunately to get all the changes that we would
like. But I believe a good deal of progress is being made.
As people have left and have got a job and have lost that
job there are trainijg programs and special youth employment
assistance programs designed to encourage and help young
people gain useful employment. There are still areas of
difficulty and still areas of hardship, so we review what
we are doing to try and i mprove it as we gain experience.
The idea of lowering the pension age is one that has
been suggested-on a number of occasions, but I don't really
think it would provide any long term solution to the problems,
and I don't that it would necessarily assist young people by
making places available to them that they would be able
to take. The pension age for men is 65, if that were lowered,
is that going to become the compulsory retiring age, or is it
only going to be voluntarily. Probably I think the majority of
people ant to keep active and keep working because that is
one of the tairgs that helps to keep them young.
Question Thank you Prime Minister, the next call is from Lake Cattai
Mrs Kennedy.
Caller If Britain declares war in the Falklands will Australia as
part of the Commonwealth, automatically also be at war and if
so what military force and strength have we got? And, will
national service be recalled for the good an protection of
our country?
Prime Minister
There was a godd deal of static in that question so I will
repeat what I heard of it and I could be told if it was
accurate or not. I was asked if the British and the Argentinians
go to war over'the Falklands, does that af fect Australia and
then I think I was asked a question about national service.
Were those the questions?
Caller-That is right Prime Minister.
Prime Minister-
I hope very much that the dispute between Britain and the
Falklands can be resolved without developing into a shooting
war and I am sure we all do, but there has been unprovoked
aggression against a very small number of people who have been
under British protection, under British sovereignty for a very
very long while. The European community and many others
and Australia too, have roundly condemns what-Argentina has
done. The Commonwealth Secretary General, Mr Ramphal has
branded the Argentinians' actions as unprovoked aggression and
8-
asked all Commonwealth countries to do what they can to assist.
Now we intrcduced some economic measures at the request of the
British, but there would no question of Australia going to
war over this particular issue, and we are not bound by
decisions of the United Kingdom. We make our own decisions
completely. They understand that and that has been the case
for a very long while, but I am sure that the United Kingdom
would not be expecting Australia to join them in battle in
this particu. lar conflict if it develops that way. Whatever
support we can provide them morally and through some trade
sanctions anid financial sanctions and these things have already
been announced, of course we willido so. But it is the not the
kind of circumstances in which I would expect to see Australians
involved directly.
Question We have news in brief in just a little under 1 minute from
now,. so at this point there is not a great deal of point
in taking another phone call, but I do hope that those
listeners who are still trying to get through to us will
continue to do so. The Prime Minister has agreed to be
with us until 10.45. ( Break for news)
Tweed Heads on the north coast of New South Wales, Mrs Dylan.
Caller I would just like to ask you your reactionto The West
German proposal f or their unemployment benefits. * I presume
you are awa:-e of it. What the chances would be of the Senate
accepting such a Bill in this country.
Prime Minis-: er
Are you talkinq about the proposal whereby they get paid a
high percentage of their previous wage, but the longer they
are unemployed the less they get paid.
Caller No, not that one. They have four months in which to obtain
a similar position that they previously held and after that
time they must accept the direction of their CES or the
equivalent, if not forfeit their rights to unemployment.
Prime Minis ter the same
In a sense we try to get at/ problem in a different way, because
there is a work test. If somebody has become unemployed obviously
they would try to get a similar job, but then if that is not
available, tnder the work test that person must be prepared to
accept other work for which he is reasonably suited. If there
is work of that sort that is available to him, and is not prepared
to take that job, then in those circumstances the person would
also forfeit unemployment benefits. 9
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CallerI Is that enforced in this country, So often, employers say they can't
obtain staff, and there is a shortage of staff in various
industries a~ nd we have this mounting unemployment problem.
Prime Minister
There is a -very real problem in administering the work test,
in many cases it is probably not applied as it is meant to be.
There have ' been difficulties in this, because I have experience~ d
this, many people have spoken to me about, just as you have.
When there is a lot of unemployment around and people want to
be able to employ somebody but find that they cannot get anyone
to do the work, then it is frustrating and annoying and it
does hold thie country back.
Question Western Division of New South Wales, Mr Mitchell from Bourke.
Caller As Chairman of the National Water Resources Association the
question I wish to raise with you is the diversion of surplus
waters from coastal rivers into the Darling-Murray River systems.
As you know such diversions have been talked about for a long
time, but now studies carried on with Federal and State
Government funds have certainly proven their feasibility.
The huge amounts of water that can be distributed would do such
a lot for Southern Queensland, Western New South Wales and
Northern Victoria and South Australia. Now the question I
wish to ask you sir, how do you see the Federal Government's role
in the future development of such massive construction projects
and their imipact on the areas of work opportunities for young
Australians and the resulting lift of the morale and future
development of all Australia.
Prime Minster
The Federal Government does have a natural water resources program
in which we provide funds to the states. Generally, the* projects
that a selected are ones which the states themselves regard as
the highest priority matters. That is an ongoing program which
we pursue. The Minister for National Development has recently
commissioned a study of Australia's water resource needs up to
and beyond the year 2000. 1 would be disappointed if the kinds
of matters which you have mentioned are not embraced and examined
in that particular study. Australia is a dry continent and
the conservation of water has always been a matter which Australians
regard as of very real importance and there have been some great
Australian conservation programs undertaken.* The management
of the River Murray in the River Murray system with four Governments,
the Commonwealth, Victoria, New South Wales and South
Australia. That has been a land mark in water use in this country.
The development of the Snowy Mountain Scheme was another. I
certainly do not rule out proposals in this area in the 110
years ahead, but I would like to get the results of the study
which Senator Carrick has commissioned ancd which is now proceeding.
Question Moving to Queensland and Goondiwindi, Mrs McLyremount.
Caller I would like to talk about the price of farm fuel.
Do you realise that farmers use as much fuel to produce a
failed crop as they do to produce profitable ones. Do you
think there is any possible way we could have the price reduced
f or farm fuel?
Prime Minister
Farm fuel is already free of the normal excise and we sought
to help in that way. We also have the fuel freight equalisation
program which is costing $ 120 million this year. This
equalises to within very narrow margins the freight cost of
getting fuel out to country and the remote parts of Australia.
The other thing that helps of course, I know that farmers
are using better and more efficient equipment than they have in
the past, but for reasons that we all know, the price of fuel
is a very substantial cost today. We have tried to help
in the ways that I have mentioned. Farm fuel does not pay
excise and the fuel equalisation program is also designed to
keep down the cost to people in country areas.
Question Thank you for your call. Now to the north coast of New South
Wales, Mr Simson in Caranbah.
Caller I'm calling about the home savings grant and I would like a
policy change. In 1979 I purchased my home in the Entrance
in New South Wales, Mr Cohen was our local Member and the value
of the house was $ 42,000. Now it was just after the price
escalation of the 1978-79 period. We were not eligible for
the home savings grant because our house, or the price of
our house was outside the limit of $ 40,000 for home savings
grants when we had been saving for quite a few years. So I
was hoping it would help pay solicitors.
VPrime ? inifter
Are you aware of the policy changes that we have introduced
over the last week or so?
Caller Not over the last week.
Prime Miniazer
About a month ago.
Caller Yes, I don ' t think that is backdated f rom the period
Prime Minister
Well it could not be backdated. I suppose one of the unfortunate
things is that there is always a cut of f time and a start time
for new policies. But because we realised there were problems
with the home savings grant and it was also being paid too late
about nine months after the person has probably moved into the
home, that is, why we altered the basis of it. The new proposals
are helpful and much more constructive in assiting people into
their homes. I am afraid there is nothing I can do about your
case, I am sorry that you have missed out.
Questi on
Now, to Mt I: sa, Mr Simons.
Caller I am a pay as you earn tax payer, and that means that I pay
tax on my income as I get it. Then I claim back any rebate at
the end of the financial year. Now I realise that tax is a
necessary evil and I don't object to paying tax because it does
help support: the Government etc. But what I do object to are
these people who are evading and avoiding tax. Now isn't there
some way that the Government can get the money out of them
first, and then they can claim all their tax deductions and so
on afterwards, the same way that I do. Once they have got
the money then the Government can hand it back again like they
do to everybody else, instead of not getting the money off them
in the first place.
Prime Minsiter
one of the problems with tax avoidance is that if the Goverment
knew that people had earned the money it would go into their
assessments. But as I understand it, the more sophisticated
tax evasion schemes are designed to hide the fact that people
have had an income. I agree totally with your sentiments about
it, but I would like to make the point that over the last three
or four years we have legislated time and time again to stop
tax evasion and whenever we get advice of a particular scheme
that is unreasonable, we legislate. In addition to that, a
new broad based section has been introduced into the Tax Act
which is designed to give the TaxaNtion Commissioners much more
power in preventing tax avoidance. The Government's campaign
against tax avoidance will certainly continue and we have
legislatedi on many occasions and if it necessary we will continue
to do so. I think the people who participate in these sorts of
schemes are just as anit-social, if not even more, than the
predatory union activities which do so much damage through industrial
/ 12
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disruption. They both do just as much damage to the fabric
of Australian society. I am with you totally with your sentiments,
but the only way we can really fix the pr6blem is to legislate
to put outside the law the activities that make it possible.
Question To southern Queensland, Mrs Bella from Cabarlah.
Caller A couple of questions on unemployment. The reason given for
a lot of unemployment is married women working. The thing is
that now with paying off a mortgage, a car and bringing up
a family, it is just a necessity now for a woman to work when
her husband is on the wage that my husband's on, which is nothing
like the average wage of $ 300.00. Also I was thinking that
you could make a tax rebate for the woman who wishes to stay
at home rather than be in the workforce.
Prime Minister many
I know quite well that/ married women do work because they
believe it is necessary for them to contribute to their
family living standard. This is a fact of life and
whatever views a person might individually have about
two income families, or single income families, this is a
choice that individuals or families have to make for themselves.
I agree with you though that the idea of a tax rebate to
encourage mothers to stay at home is good, and there is in fact
a spouse rebate, which we more than doubled over the last few
years, and it is quite a generous rebate which goes to single
income families to make it easier for a mother to stay at home
if that is what she wants to do and feels she is able to do.
When we are looking at changes in tax laws, we obviously look
at the position of single income families and the allowances
that have been made available in that area has increased much
more than other allowances for the very reason that you have
mentioned. TAPE TURNED OVER/ 13
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Prime Minister: ( cont.)
enough money but I would love you to have a better pair of
headphones the next time around.
Question: Perish the thought sir. Look to give our technicians a chance
to perhaps have a look at those headphones, for a couple of,
moments, we have a report in from Antarctica, so we will delay
the calls for the next two minutes.
Prime Minister:
Fine. Question: The eyes of the world are focussed on the Falkland Islands
and the attempts at shuttle diplomacy Secretary of State
Alexander Haig. Meanwhile, reports in the United States
suggest the Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands
may simply be a staging post to either richer pickings in
Antarctica : later on. ( Report) Prime Minister, I believe
you are hearing a little more easily now?
Prime Minister:
I can hear beautifully now, thank you very much.
Question: That is marvellous. We will resume our calls. Speaking with
Mr John fromn Barellan in the Riverina district of New South
Wales. Caller:: Good morning Mr Fraser. Can you hear me quite alright?
Prime Minister:
Yes, I can hiear you well, thank you.
Caller Mr Fraser, I believe that a nation is only as strong as its
family unit, and that the family unit is only as strong as
that which it might believe. And the question I would like
to ask you as you and your family are probably the leading
family in the nation, and I hope you don't consider it
embarrassing or impertinent, but I would like to know sir
if you are a Christian?
Prime Minister:
Yes. I agree with you. I think a nation is as strong as
the family is, and I think it is the most important it
is a cold word, but the most important unit in society.
Ireally do. The basis of so much that we do and so much
that we believe in is in fact based on the family. -A4
14
Question: Thank you very much for your call, Mr John. Now to Tamworth
in northern New South Wales. Mr Bourke, you are now through
to Mr Fraser.
Caller: Good morning, Mr Fraser.
Prime Minister:
Good morning.
Caller: Mr Fraser, could you expand to me in broad why governments
spend so much money on tertiary education, educating our
young people to do jobs which obviously are not available
to the majority of them, and why our government doesn't spend
moreof this money in creating jobs?
Prime Minister:
A large part of tertiary education is of course very necessary
and I do believe that there ought to be access to higher education
for as many Australians as possible, but over the last 15 or
years, I agree with you, I think people had come to believe
that tertiary education was going to provide the answers to
everyone's futures, and that certainly isn't so. There are
a lot of Australians, either by inclination or by talent,
don't want cr aren't suited to university type education,
but might have a very great talent for vocational training
of different kinds or technical training, and in the last
half dozen years, we have increased the sums available for
technical and vocational training enormously. We have also
increased the sums for training programmes and something
over 200,000, 220,000 to 230,000 Australians, and many of
them young Australians get assisted througrh these various
technical vccational training programmes each year. And
at the same time of course, the money that has been spent
on university education has been held fairly tightly in
real terms. So the problem that you have drawn attention
to, I think, the Government has recognised, and I also
believe that we have taken substantial actions along the lines
that we have approved because we are diverting resources into
technical and further education which gives people a practical
training and that of course is essential if they are to get
jobs in today's world.
Question: Thank you very much indeed for your call, Mr Bourke from
Tamworth. Now, moving to southern New South Wales and Cooma.
Mrs Tozer, do you have a question for the Prime Minister?
Caller: Yes. Good morning Prime Minister. I am ringing you on the subject
of the annual seal hunt in Canada, and I would like to know what
stand the Australian Government takes on this disgusting hunt,
and if you are planning any legislation banning seal products
from this country.
15
Prime Minister:
I have seen some of the pictures of the seal hunts onielevision
and I agree with the kind of terms that you have used. We have
made our views known to Canada. They of couirse make decisions
in relation 1to this, and it is in a sense, unlike the problems
of whaling where there was an international organisation and
where we were able to ban Australian whaling and have been
able to argue in an international forum to end that trade.
The seal hunt: is in the province of one country and for the
decisions of one country. I am told that there are virtually
no products t: hat come into Australia made out of seals, but
nevertheless, we are looking at the question as to whether
or not we shouldn't even so, ban any products made out of seals
or seal fur. I think the ban would be more symbolic than real
simply because on the advice available to me, there are virtually
no products -that come into the country anyway.
Question:
Mrs Tozer, thank you for your call. Still in southern New South
Wales, Mrs Duel in Albury, you are now through to the Prime Min.-ister.
Caller: Good morning Mr Prime Minister.
Prime Minister:
Good morning.
Caller: For a long time I have been rather concerned about the standard
of Australian speech. And it is not getting better, it is
getting rather worse, actually.
Prime Minister:
About the what of Australian speech?
Caller: The standard of Australian speech. Can you hear me very well.
Prime Minister:
Yes. Caller: Now, is there something we can do about this by introducing
it into the schools particularly and having teachers forced
to learn speech during their programmes, instead of just
minutes that they are doing now, or having-specialist
teachers go into the schools every week, and also including
it as a subject as music is, in the AMEB curriculum, as an
accepted Higher School Certificate subject. ./ 16
16
Prime Minister:
This of course would be a matter for the schools and the
curriculum for most of the schools is a matter for State
Governments. I am not saying that to duckshove the issue,
I am-just stating the fact. I would agree with you that the
capacity to express your views and to do it reasonably well
is very important and I think this is one of the things that
has been neglected in Australian education. But I also believe
that over the last two or three years there has been some very
hard questioning of the basis of education in Australian
schools. People are and I mentioned this earlier this
morning are now realising that schools have a much greater
responsibiliLty than to teach an academic training to those
who are academically inclined. I think secondary schools have
an absolute obligation to find something that every student
not only can but wants to do well, and if the school can't
succeed in -that, then they are very much failing the student.
Ending up, wahen people leave school, being able to speak
well, with -a good standard of speech, I also think'is a
very important obligation on the whole school system.
Now, how that is done is open to the schools themselves,
but in a nunber of States, local parents bodies are having
a greater and greater impact on the curriculum that is taught
in schools and whether that occurs in your own district or
not I wouldn't know, but if it does, it is one avenue of
being able to influence what is taught in the schools.
Question: Mrs Duel in Albury, thank you very much indeed for your
call. Prime Minister, we are certainly getting a variety
of matters being raised.
Prime Minister:
Yes, we arE!. I think that is good.
Question: Fine. Well we will find out now, moving to Mt Isa,
what Mrs Fl~ orence, would like to speak with you about.
Caller: Good morning Prime Minister.
Prime Minister:
Good morning, Mrs Florence.
Caller: I would like to know if the ABC could have licences brought
back, and Ehereby give country people a better variety of
programmes and the city ones able to compete with the
independent television. / 17
17
Prime Minister:
Are you saying you want everyone to have to pay for a licence
so the ABC would have more money, is that it?
Caller: Yes. I have! no objections.
Prime Minister:
Well there was some thought of that years ago and there
was a great deal of objection. The ABC is encouraged to
compete. You may not know that some years ago we made a
decision that would enable the ABC to keep the benefits,
the profits of programmes that they might sell to encourage
the creative talent within the ABC. I don't know to what
extent they have taken advantage of that, and we have also
of course recently had a report on the structure of the ABC
and that has become known as the Dix Report, and the Government:
will very shortly be able to make its decisions in relation
to that. If you are after a vigorous, vital interesting ABC,
I would agree with you totally. It is a great challenge.
I think it is sometimes met, and sometimes not met, but
I hope that with the changes that will come as a result
of the Dix enquiry and report that the ABC will in part
be revitalised. I don't think it is only a question of
money. I think it is also a question of structure and
attitudes, and there are many dedicated people in the
ABC, but sometimes I think they could be given more encouragement.
Question: Mrs Florence, thank you very much for your call.
From Cobar in north western New South Wales, Mr Arnold.
What do you. have to say to the Prime Minister?
Caller: Good mornirng Prime Minister.
Prime Minister:
Good morning Mr Arnold.
Caller: Hello, you have faded out now.
Prime Minister:
Well I just said good morning. Yes, I am listening. I can hear you.
Caller:
Well I thin2k you are very brave to come on a programme
like this where you get a broad spectrum of questions thrown
at you, and I have got. a fairly broad spectrum of questions
here myself. I was in the Liberal Party for six years. I am
not especially proud of that, but even then it was relatively
difficult to get near a Prime Minister, so I think this sort
of a radio programme serves a very real purpose.
18
Prime Minister:
I would agree: with you on that. It does enable you to have a
direct contact with quite a large number of people and . it
enables me tco know what is upper most in their minds, what is
concerning them most.
Caller: I have some suggestions in that regard, but anyway, to get
straight on with what I wanted to ask you about, there are
three main questions and then a comment. Concerning our defence
which, in my estimation at least, is in a fairly deplorable
state. I undErstand we are to have 25 Leopard tanks in the
long term whEtn we eventually get them all and I suppose it
is worth commienting in passing that when Russia started
its war with Germany, in the Second World War, they were
ill prepared for war, but in those first three months
of that war, they lost 2,000 tanks. So, our 25 Leopards
when they arE! eventually here and they are all stationed
in Melbourne,. I don't think they will do us a whole lot of
good. And my suggestion in this regard is that the large
Massey Ferguson tractor plant at Sunshine in Victoria
where it had just had the drawings changed in the drawing
offi ce, it then becomes a tank plant. I don't know if you
are aware of that engineering fact. And then to move on to
Question: Could the Prime Minister answer that first of all, Mr Arnold.
We are running out of time, and we still have several calls.
Prime Minister:
I think we have got a few more than 25 Leopard tanks, but
the main basis of Australian defence is to have a thoroughly
balanced force, and we need a modern, efficient hard hitting
airforce, navy and the army of course, needs to keep up its
skills with modern weaponry. We are in the middle of a
re-equipment programme which is costing many billions
of dollars which is going to see the introduction of one
of the world's best aircraft into our own airforce, which
is seeing the upgrading of the skills at sea and the capacities
at sea in matritime reconnaissance, and in addition to that,
of course, thJ-e army reserve or the CMF as it used to be called
has been very greatly expanded over the last couple of years.
The target levels were reached on time. So, I think overall
we have got a better sense of defence preparedness than
maybe we have ever had in peace time. I know you can make
comments about one particular aspect of weaponry and tanks
but you have got to make a judgment about the state of the
art that needs to be kept alive in the defence forces but
also you have got to make a judgment about the kind of
conflicts that Australia could be involved in, and the
kind of weapons therefore, that we need in our forces for
the protection of Australia to enable us to contribute in
any conflict where Australia might be involved. Overall,
I believe we have a balanced force that is capable of operating
by itself or with allies. ./ 19
19
Question: Thank you for raising that question on defence, Mr Arnold
of Cobar. Now, to far north Queensland andCairns. Mr Cabrer
you are now through to the Prime Minister.
Caller: Good morning Mr Fraser.
Prime Minist~ er:
Good morning Mr Cabrer.
Caller: Mr Fraser, a commodity that Australia is importing increasing
amounts of is timber, along with the, I suppose, the rest of
the world. ' I have in front of me a statement which says
since 1950, the world has lost half of its trees, and that
in about 20 years, half of the remainder will be gone.
Now, apropos of that, there is a determinedi result being made
in north Queensland on the last remnants of land forests
probably in a desperate attempt to sustain the * industry.
But it seems to me that this is just very shortsighted policy.
There is probably far more money to be made in tourism
in keeping those remnants in perpetuity because in 20 to
years there won't be any accessible land forests left in
the world. My question is, can your government do anything
about the institution of large scale forestation and reforestation
on a nationwide scale and secondly, protect these remaining
remnants both in north Queensland and I believe there were
some in New South Wales.
Prime Minister:
Well I would have no quarrel with the objectives you have
got at all. Preseveration of Queensland rain forests is
very, very important, and I would be very disappointed
if the QueEnsland government were not to take actions that
would enable those rain forests to be preserved. Having
adequate supplies of timber for the future is also very
important and most State Governments now have rules so
that if people are milling for timber and clearing timber
they also [ ave enter into replarting programmes to make sure
the future is looked after. And indeed, the reputable timber
companies I think do look to the future. It is not just
a question o~ f cutting out a forest and leaving it, moving on
somewhere Clse. The reputable firms are on a long term basis
and they know they need stocks of timber not just for this
year or five years time but 20, 25, 30 years time, and that
won't occur if they don't undertake adequate plantings.
In some areas in the last few years there has been an interesting
innovation because there have been large scale replantings
of native Australian timber of eucalypts where in the past
the replanltings were certainly restricted to pines or timber
of that kind. I would have thought that under the rules that
State Governments have established, that the sorts of things
that you are concerned about are basically being looked after,
certainly in a number of Stat~ sthey are.
20
Question: Now we go to Alice Springs in the Northern Territory.
Mrs Cassells,. you are now through to Mr Fraser.
Caller: Thank you. Good morning.
Prime Minister:
Good morning Mrs Cassells.
Caller: One is a plea Mr Fraser to please try to keep Australia
intact for -the coming generation. I know it is very difficult
when you have got State Governments to deal with, but the
Tasmanian situation is one instance. I won't go into that,
you probably know more about it than I do. The other my
main question is, could some investigation be done into
superannuation. Why isn't it transferable, from Commonwealth
to States, States to Commonwealth and private industry.
Prime Minister:
Some superannuation schemes are transferable. There have
been examinations about the portability of superannuation
pensions in the past, and some progress has been made, but
not complete. Have you got a particular circumstance or a
particular case in mind?
Caller: Yes I have, my husband. I guess I cannot take up too much
of your time.
Prime Minister:
If you like, what you could do is to give your details to
the ABC over the telephone rather than over the airwaves
and I could look into that for you.
Question: Mrs Cassells, we will take your call back to the switchboard.
And we have another call from the Northern Territory.
This time, Diarwin. Mr Mason, you are now through to the Prime MInister
Caller: Good mornincr Prime Minister.
Prime Minister:
Good morning to you.
Caller: Can you hear me? ./ 21
21-
Prime Minister:
Yes very well.
Caller: You are very faint, but I can just about hear you.
Mr Prime Minister, we liken Darwin and the Northern Tertitory
to be very, -very similar inaudible.. to the Falkland I ' slands
with the lack of defence up here in the territory. We have
very very little at the moment. Eventually it is going
to have a fighter squadron. We do have inaudible... the
CMF as it used to be called, well they are very, very good
but they are very, very small. Now, we could be in exactly
the same position as the Falkland Islands.
Prime Minister:
Well I don't think so because
Caller: or not, we people in the territory do think so.
Prime Minister:
Well, if I could make a comment or two about that.
The Falklandi Islands are a very, very long way, about
8,000 or 9,000 miles from the United Kingdom. They are
remote froma the main centres of British power and influence
and they are obviously close to other countries where the
lines of communication are very short. Now, the Northern
Territory is1 all part of one island continent, and the
Australian defence effort is based to make sure that vie
secure the protection of Australia against any possible
threats and it is not just a questionof the defence force
that might be in the Northern Territory, it is our capacity
to move defence forces anywhere within Australia or beyond
if that is necessary in Australia's interests. And if there
was a threat to Darwin or to the Northern Territory, obviously
the totality of Australia's defence effort, wherever people
are headquartered or wherever they have their barracks,
would be available for the defence of each and every part
of Australia, whether it is Darwin or Sydney or Broom or
whatever. I can understand that there can be a feeling
of isolaticn but really in military terms, the situations
are not the same, they really aren'It.
Question: Prime Minister we have about three minutes left in the
programme, so I will try and get one more call in, if you
agree. And from Coffs Harbour on the north coast, Mrs Grime.
We are very short of time, Mrs Grime, could you please make
your questf-on very brief.
Caller: Good morning Mr Fraser.
Prime Mini: 3ter:
Good morni. ag Mrs Grime.
22
Caller: My question is regarding the TEAS. Is there any possibility
of the TEAS levels being raised for students in the next budget
or raising the amount that they can earn before they can lose
some of their TEAS. I am the mother of a country student that
cannot live at home, and I would like tosee-these young
people are our future as well as the tertiary eduation peopleand
if feel that young people on the dole get more money
but they will repay it when they do get work in the workforce.
Prime Minister:
All I can say is that the TEAS matters, whether it is the allowance
or the capacity to earn outside income will be looked at in the
next budget. We have made adjustments from time to time and
the TEAS doe: 5 come up for review in each budget discussion,
so it will be before us.
Question: Thank YOU vetry much, Mrs Grime, and thank you also Prime Minister
for sparing the time from your very busy schedule to take part
in this talk: back programme in Morning Extra today. I am sure
so many people have appreciated being able to speak with you.
Prime Minister:
Well thank you very much and I have enjoyed speaking with you
on the programme and enjoyed listening to the questions and
responding t: o those questions. So thank you.
Question: As you would understand, there have been so many people
who have not been able to get Ibrough to us today, so I am
wondering iE perhaps in the future when time permits, would
you join us again?
Prime Minister:
Yes, certainly. I will take out a monopoly on the ABC if you like,
then I can answer all the questions.
Question: And perhaps get some nice earphones?
Prime Minis-ter:
Well they are working much better now. I think some else was
wrong but the earphones seem to be alright.
Question: Well I am & elighted to hear that. But thank you again for your time.