PRES OFFCE TANSC3I0P TATUHGUURSSTD A1Y9,7 9
INTERVIEW WITH REV. NEIL ADCOCK, 6PR, PERTH
( TELEPHONE-INTERVIEW)
QUESTIONS NOT AUDIBLE ANSWERS ONLY
Question Prime Minister-
No I haven't seen that, but there are going to be some very
great changes and we are going to have to learn to tackle
them. Question Prime Minister
I think we are as well equipped to handle these changes as
any other country, and maybe a lot better than most. Some time
ago we established a very high-level committee looking at the
problems of technology and technology change. That will be
reporting, and hopefully give us some pointers to future
government policy. But, in so many areas, Australia is now
becoming more competitive. There will be more things that
Australians can do and that all provides jobs and opportunities
for Australians. It in that area where the great challenge
really does lie.
Question Prime Minister
I think we've got to tap the advice and expertise that is
available from different sections of the community, and certainly
the trade uni4on movement and consultation with the trade union
movement has oviously got a very real role to play. There is;
an obvious area. If a firm is introducing new technology, it's
of greatest importance that a firm consult with its own
employees, with the unions representing those employees, so that
what is happening will be understood. Also, if there is
disruption of past practices and employment patterns,
arrangements, a firm with a concern for industrial relations,
will try and make sure that any necessary technical changes
are undertaken in a way that minimnises disruption to its own
people. I think a great deal of this is already happening.
Question / 2
PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT
-2
Prime Minister
People say that. I've got some doubts. The modern
technological revolution is different but it will not, in
my view, change society as substantially as the Industrial
Revolution changed society. It is easy to recall that people
who were concerned with village industries, who were believing
that the factL-ories were going to put them all out of work,
the Industrial Revolution provided greater opportunities and
greater continuity of employment and ultimately much greater
livr'L.. g standards for people than could ever have occurred
throuqh the continuation of the village-based industries, the
cottaue industries. But at the beginning of that process
there was concern, there was fear, fear of the unknown. Now I
think we are much, much better equipped to handle changes in
technology than
Question Prime Minister
In certain areas it certainly can. There are two aspects of
this. Moder-n technology, new practices, that can open up new
market-s,. it car. produce new products that people want. Things
that were undreamt of. A lot of that has already happened.
You go back 30 years, 40 years, and people didn't have
refrigerators, they didn't haven't deep freezers, well it was
netwe hooynwidsrial processes, that brought these
sor-s of household goods within the reach of virtually every
household in Australia. The jobs, the opportunities provided
as houses equip themselves, are obviously very great.
I believe new technology is going to continue to throw new
products onto the market. That is one way in which greater
opportunities will be created. Going beyond that, if we don't
use new technology, our industries will become outdated, their
costs will rise, and they won't be able to compete whether it is
in the Australia market or whether it is in export-markets.
So, Dart of this is a necessary drive to make Australian
industrie-s as modern and as competitive as possible, and that
means t-hat they can get out and sell more in Australia, get out
and capture export markets. That all provides more opportunities
for Australians. So, whatever the concerns, whatever the fears,
one might have for technology and its introduction, I am quite
certain that there is no alternative; that we need to embrace
new technology and use it to the advantage of Australian
industry. Certainly there will be problems. We need to pay
greater attention to those and to minimise the social impact, the
economic impact, in certain areas. We need to pay very close
attention to that. But, we want to try and put fear out of
our minds and hearts if we can, because I think there is no
alternative. Question / 3
-3
Prime Minister
I think we are making progress. When you get imbalances
in aan economy that are very great and very serious, it takes
a long while to work out, especially in a democratic kind
of society like Australia you are right. If somebody
was able to say wages are going to remain static or even be
reduced and have that apply without enormous industrial
disruption and if you were able to arbitrarily cut expenditure
programs without any concern for the social or economic
consequences, then quite plainly it can be easier to control
int. Flation than it is in our kind of society. But the
disruption, the harm could be very great indeed. we have to
work within the institutions that we've got. In the wages
area you've got State Tribunals, you've got the Arbitration
Coimm-ission. We have to work within that institution.
There are some obligations for Government expenditure which
go on regardless. Nobody has suggested that welfare payments
or payments to repatriation people should be reduced. They
would regard it as a denial of a fundamental obligation. if
a Government did do that. So therefore, it takes a while to
get inflation out of an economy. It is not only what you can
do within Australia, it is not only what a Government can do
or a Government and people acting together can do, even a
totalitarian dictatorship will still be subject very often to
increases in oil prices or increases in commodity prices.
Those things can create inflationary pressures which a
Government needs to respond to. So, even a totalitarian
regime, if you could use those kinds of powers, which I would
very much doubt, even in a dictatorship, would have problems.
I -think when we look at what has happened in Australia and
compare Australia's position with most country's in the
advanced western world Europe, North America we are improving
out position steadily because even though there are some
renewed inflationary pressures in Australia at the moment, there
are greater inflationary pressures in North America and in
much of Europe, and the margin in favour of Australia is
growing all the time. While we can keep it that way, again,
it points to a better future for Australian industry because
they will be becoming more competitive.
Ycu asked. me a hyepothetical question. The thought of totalitarian
powers i's so repugnant to -most Australians that I find it,
in a sense, even to reach out and think what a totalitarian
government might be able to do.
Question
I
-4
Prime Minister
That partly depends upon the faith and confidence you have
in your own people. We've stuck with a difficult course because
we believe it is right, not because we like doing nasty or
unpleasant things. We are starting to get, I think, into a
better overall balance, as the last Budget showed, and we were
able to make some useful advances in the welfare field and
areas of social concern. Because we have the resources at
long last to be able to make those changes. I think if a
Goverrnment is prepared to take people into its confidence,
they will accept what they regard as responsible government.
I don't believe that the modern Australian voter, elector,
is -really bemused by promises that a Government can cure all
ills, or bemused by the thought of Government spending more
money on a great variety of programs, because they know that
that is just not a responsible course.
It is very like managing a family family finances. If the
housekeeper is going on spending too much money week after
week on the grocery bill, and the breadwinner doesn't do anything
about it and says you are running us into bankruptcy, they will
end up along the track with some kind of disaster, with the
family hopelessly over-cornmitted. and the breadwinner has just
got to say, look, I am sorry we are spending too much week
by week. We've got to spend a little less. Management of
a nation's finances is not all that different from the management
of a family's own finances. In that environment, in the family
environment, everyone knows that there is a limit to what the
family can spend. They also know that it is sometimes difficult,
that it is sometimes a struggle. It is the same thing with a
nation. Question Prime Minister
California started that process with a Budget surplus.
They did not have a Budget deficit. You've really got to take
a gr-eat anv other things into account. In California, the
economyl? has been growing very very rapidly over the last
several years. I think it has been one of the greatest growth
areas of the United States. Since they had a surplus in their
Budget, and could therefore reduce taxes without adding to
inflation, I've got no doubt that the tax cuts would have helped.
But at the same time, there has been a natural growth process
going on in California compared to other parts of the United States.
QuestLion
Prime Minister
It couldn't stand the kind of tax reduction that happened
in California because it would make a deficit that is still
significant, even larger. That would lead to problems in
how you finance it. You've got three ways of financing a
deficit either you can tax people, you can borrow it on the
open market, or you can go to a printing press and print it.
If you go to the printing press it is straight-out inflationary.
if you borrow it on the market, well all right, that is a
responsible way of financing it, but if you make the borrowing
recm'rement too large, you obviously have great pressure
on in-terest r-ates and then that starts to affect home builders
and a whole variety of other activities that affect people.
Quest~ o
Prim-e-Mi-nist-er.
It's so much giving more teeth to ASIO. It is putting ASIO
within a proper statutory legal framework, because ASIO has been
operating under successive governments of both Liberal/ National
Party Coamlition Governments and earlier under Labor Governments,
but wi-thout the necessary statutory charter which will set the
limits of what ASTO can do and at the same time provide
adequat~ e protection to individuals. We will be establishing
an aptpropriat[_ e appeals arrangement for people who are subject
to an adverse security report. That is a very substantial
prcotection.-or individual rights. In the past people would be
subject to an adverse security report and they mightn't even
know abou-t it and they certainly had not appeal. So, the
legislation shouldn't just be looked at from the point of view
of giving ASIO more teeth. It should be looked at from the
point of view of providing an appropriate legal framework for
a security organisation to operate in.
Why do we need ASIO or why do we need a security service?
I think every government, and especially a democracy such as
Australia, needs to know of the open threats to the integrity
o: tecountry, t'-o the 9fab--, c of your society. They need to
know of certain events occurring which might need to be
countered in some way. You need to know what foreign agents
are doing within your own country and in some embassies, for
example, a significant number of the normal accredited people
we know have security intelligence, espionage, functions.
Some countries that send trade missions to this country we
would know that anything up to 30% or 40% of the members of
that trade mission would have some intelligence or espionage
function in addition to their normal commercial trade functions.
If this is happening, if that is the kind of world we live in,
we have had embassies overseas that are bugged and that was
exposed some time ago in relation tothe Moscow embassy well,
we need to know about it, we need to be able to combat it in the
protection of Australia's own national interests. / 6
6-
Prime Minister ( continued)
This is something it would be a much better world if nations
didn't indulge in these kind of practices and you didn't therefore
need the sort of defensive mechanism that ASIO provides us.
I think one of the good things about the present time is that
the whole, or anyway so far as the Federal Parliament is
concerned, the whole political spectrum believes that the ASIG
organisation is necessary.
Question Prime Minister
All the parties have accepted to go to the Constitutional
Conference that Prime Minister Thatcher has called for the
of September. So she has moved very quickly. I think it
could be a long and difficult road in getting those parties
to ultimate agreement. But the Lusaka Conference did point the
road to peace. it has opened up an opportunity for a
settlement. I know that the United Kingdom authorities, and
Margaret Thatcher in particular, as with the other countries
Zambi-* a, Tanzania, the front line states, they are committed to
making that agreement work. There will be many pitfalls, many
problems, and there can't be any guarantees. But we do see now
the possibility of ultimate peace. That is the only thing that
will give securitv to white and black alike in Southern Africa.
The f'irst step has been overcome. They have been saying
un :) leasant thnsabout each other, but the parties have all
acc= ep* te. to go to the Constitutional Conference.
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