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PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT 19 JUNE 1979
PRESS CONFERENCE: FOLLOWING CABINET MEETING
Prime Minister
I think we all know that the Kurnell Refinery dispute, which is
going to cause enormously severe disruption in N. S. W. and
possibly beyond that, has arisen out of divided industrial
jurisdiction in N. S. W. itself. There is now a Federal award
covering the industry. The State Branch of the AWU wants to
break away from that and re-establish the authority of the
N. S. W. Industrial Commission. There have been a number of
arguments about this particular case. The Tribunals have met
on a number of occasions and the umpire's verdict to this
point has in fact been given supporting the Federal jurisdiction.
I b1-elieve that overwhelmingly there is support for one
jurisdiction in this industry. It makes no sense at all to have
a divided jurisdiction which can only lead to additional disruption.
Indeed, if there had never been more than one jurisdiction
this particular dispute now would not be with us. It's origins
lie in the divided jurisdiction. But there is certainly no
ser. se whether it is within N. S. W. or within Australia, in having the
oil. industry subject par _ ly to a Federal jurisdiction and partly to
a State jurisdiction. Therefore, the Federal authority, ought,
I believe, be upheld very strongly indeed. It is worth noting
that the N. S. W. Government is using its emergency powers to ration
petrol. It is not using its emergency powers to try and achieve
a resumption of work and that I think is very significant.
It is also significant that N. S. W. is being held to ransom
in this way as a result of the dispute by about 400 people and
400 people who are certainly not amongst the lowest paid throughout
the Australian community. I think, as I have said on other
occasions, that if Premier Wran could only say in forthright
termis that he supported the Federal jurisdiction or if he didn't
wa-nt-to say that to say that he supported the umpire's decision
in relation to this matter that at least part of the problem
would tend to be overcome; because there has been a view,
widely shared throughout the industry, as I understand it, that
the N. S. W. Government gives tacit support to the State AWU in
trying to break away from Federal jurisdiction.
There is a meeting tomorrow between Sir John Moore and the
C1-ai'Lr--an of teN. S. W. Industrial Commission. I applaud the
fact that that meeting is taking place, I would hope that it
will be able to resolve the matter. But again, as I am advised,
Sir John Moore will be seeking to uphold Federal authority
ad jurisdiction because in the longer term this is regarded
as important for the industry itself. If N. S. W. is in a very
difficult position, it would probably depend upon the other
States being able to use their own emergency powers if any
additional supplies of petrol were to be diverted to N. S. W.,
because there is no surplus available, as we are advised this
afternoon. Whether other States would be prepared to run short
themselves to assist N. S. W. in this situation is a matter that
clearly they would have to consider. / 2
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Prime Minister-( continued)
The Commonwealth is very mnuch concerned at the problems arising
out of this particular case; not just for the present, not
just for the severity and the harm and the damage which will come
as a result of the selfishness of 400 people in the State Branch
of the AWU. Very often, people believe that the Commonwealth
has power to resolve a matter. Very of-ten they believe we have
power to intervene in a matter when in fact our own constitutional
power is limited and when it is within the hands of a State
Government, as indeed, both the Kurnell dispute and the
Western Australian dispute are on this occasion. Against this
background, against the additional problems that are so often
with us as a result of divided jurisdiction State and
Commonwealth we are prepared to re-examine the basis of our
industrial framework right from the beginning, from its very
fundanentals. We are therefore going to put ourselves in a
position of having discussions with the States, with employer
organisations, and with the trade union movement with the
-Australian Council of Trade Unions to see whether or not any
consensus can be reached about the advisability of the States
referring, even if only for a trial period, their industrial
powers to the Commonwealth. Now, I don't suggest for one moment
that that would end all disputes, but I do believe it would end
a significant cause of a number of disputes when people in the
same industry, but under different industrial jurisdictions,
seek to capitalise on the best in both awards and there is a
lean-frogging process Set in train and an attempt to get
into the jurisdiction that may offer the highest payments for
a particular industry. This matter, because it is a very
sicznificant decision even to embark on this particular discussion
with the States, with the ACTU and with employer organisations,
has been discussed with the Minister for Industrial Relations,
Tony Street, during the course of the afternoon. He is fully
in accord with the approach that is adopted. Quite clearly, this
doesn't offer any immediate solution to the current situation.,
But I hope it will offer a productive basis for discussions in
a reasonable and rational way between the Commonwealth and the
States, employers and the trade union movement in seeking to
improve the basis of industrial relations within this country.
I should emphasise that no decision has been taken that the
Commonwealth wishes to pursue a particular course. We want to
examine the whole matter from its very fundamentals, with the
es t-hat,-are in-volved to try and come up with a much better
solution than that which we now have. We would want to achieve
a maximum rationalisation, if possible single authority, at least
for a trial period, that could well involve a referral of power
by States but again,.-it couldbe for a trial period.
Quite plainly, these are substantial matters and this alone
would make it worthwhile listing industrial relations as an issue
for discussion at the next Premier's Conference. The Commonwealth
will be doing that.
If I could turn now to the day of national protest the
resolution passed by the Australian Council of Trade Unions and
to the situation that has arisen over activities in Western
Australia. The Government has looked at this matter and it has
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Prime Minister ( continued)
looked at the Australian Council of Trade Unions resolution
and is very firmly of the view that this is a vast over-reaction
to a particular matter which the Premier of Western Australia
had in any case said was under review; that the application of
the Police Act or that section of it would be under review by
the Western Australian Government. It is
well known that there is a general review going on of western
Australian industrial legislation. Against the background of
that to cause a day of national protest to lead to disputes and
difficulties, maybe going far beyond what might happen on
Thursday, is an over-reaction which can do enormous damage to
Australia, enormous damage to the trade unionists involved.
I don't believe for one moment that the Australian Council of
Trade Unions believes that their right to assembly and their
right to organise and all the rest is threatened-b ! cause these
things are deeply embedded within Australian society. Nobody
off-'-ers any threat to that whatsoever.
But how can we proceed with the task of continuing with
the anti-inflationary battle? How can we proceed with the task
of providing greater employment opportunities for people right
throughout this continent; how can we proceed with the task
of strengthening the Australian economy when a resolution with
potentially such damaging consequences was passed by the
Australian Council of Trade Unions as they passed this afternoon?
We all know that trade unions have great power, but this must be
one of the most irresponsible uses of that power that Australia
has ever seen.
In Western Australia, whatever one may think of the particular
dispute and there are differing versions of the facts, I make
no comment about that, that will come out in the court itself,
in the Magistrate's Court but the dispute in no way justifies
the action, the reaction, that has occurred. I think it ought
to be understood that something is said about the current
industrial climate by the fact that the AMWSU and one or two
other significant unions have already much earlier, before
this ever arose made a decision to have a national stoppage of
their own unions on Thursday to support wage claims. That had
nothing to do with Western Australia. It hadn't then arisen.
Aa-Lnst that background it ought to be noted that the cause,
the purpose of the stoppage, has obviously been altered.
That in itself was a totally irresponsible act because there is
an Arbitration Commission. There are industrial tribunals.
We can only achieve some degree of industrial harmony and peace
if we have a situation in which both employers and employees.
are prepared the verdicts that flow from those tribunals. There
is no need to try and strengthen an argumentwithindustrial muscle.
That adds nothing to the merits of the case and it does harm
to the members concerned, the unionists concerned who lose
wages. It does harm to the industries and it jeopardizes the
economic recovery within Australia. / 4
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Prime Minister ( continued)
We need to understand that Sir Charles Court has said that
this section of the Police Act will be reviewed and against
that background Senator Durack will be having talks with
his counterpart in Western Australia, Mr. Metcalffe who is
I think at this moment travelling back from overseas. We are
also asking Mr. Peter Nolan, from the ACTU and such other
members of the ACTU Executive or officers as Mr. Nolan himself
would wish, to come to Canberra first thing tomorrow morning
for discussions with myself and other Ministers Mr. Viner
obviously; Mr. Macphee. There might well be one or two others
there in addition.
I think it is worth noting that the ACTU resolution not only
calls a day of protest, whether there is a significance in the
fazt that they haven't called a national strike or not as such,
but a day of protest which to this point does not necessarily
involve. all States or all unions. But going beyond that
they have talked of a ban on the export of key commodities
fromL Australia and if requested by Western Australian trade
unionists, a selected blockade on Western Australia and then
a niumtber of matters are also involved in their resolution.
But tCo elevate this incident in Western Australia to one in
which -they could contemplate a ban on the export of Australia's
major produce, major commodities, or a selected ban on the
whole of a State, can only cause irrepairable harm to Western
Auistralia, to the trade unions involved and to this nation.
I urge all employers on Thursday to keep their workplaces open
and I also urge all trade unionists who are prepared to put
this nation first to turn up for work. We will be contacting
employer organisations -through tonight and tomorrow seeking to
make sure that they do have their places of employment open and
provide the opportunity for those who do want to put Australia
first and put this total irresponsibility aside.
Question On t;-he general question of industrial disputes. That ( inaudible).
Are you prepared to put that question to the people and if so...
Prime Minister
Let's take things gently to start with. If States were prepared
to go along with our proposal, as I understand it, it would
be Dossible for them to make a referral of powers available to
us 4f necessary, * for a limited period perhaps. That might
enzo', rage greater involvement than would otherwise be the case.
But, Jit. is early days yet.-We are prepared to re-examine our
tota. approach to these matters and at least remove one of the
potential causes of grave dispute of the kind we have had at
Kurnell. But I think if it was going to be successful it would
need not only the goodwill of States, also the goodwill of
sections, important sections, of the trade union movement.
So we will need to be entering into a process of discussion
on this particular matter.
Question would you like to see transferred to the Commonwealth.
What sort of powers?
Prime Minister
It's the powers that would basically give, provide, one
industrial jurisdiction instead of two.
Question Over all-' the unions, or just the unions which would be
involved in~ the leap-frogging?
Prirme-Minister
Well, where you've got divided jurisdiction that leap-frogging
p rocess can always take place; if there is a divided jurisdiction
in-relation to a particular industry.
Question What'L about industries where there is just one jurisdiction, say
a State jurisdiction?
Prime; Minister
Well I think there are very few industries that are confined
to the boundaries of one State.
Question So it would be all unions?
Prime Minister
I don't think you really want to take this too far at the
moment and try and get into the details of the many matters
that will need discussions with the States. We all know that
for a long while there have been difficulties because of the
diffJerences in jurisdiction between the State and the Commonwealth
in relation to a number of important industries. That does not
he2. D the industrial climate in Australia. Now we are prepared
-to re-examine that from its very fundamentals and I hope that
the States and the trade union movement would also be prepared
to enter into that examination in good faith, in a realistic
attempt to achieve a situation which can at least remove some
of = ie causes of dispute from thiLs nation.
Question ( Inaudible) it won't be ultimately necessary to do
that ( inaudible) whether the States agree or not?
Prime Minister
If you had the referral of powers from the States I think it
could well not be. / 6
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Question I understand that last well I remember that last year you
wrote to the various Premiers with respect -to the leap-frogging
problem trying to get around this problem. What was the
response from the various States and if any State ( inaudible)
how would you now overcome that problem?
Prime Minister
There has been a minimal response from the Premiers to that
letter I sent after the last National Wage Case. But, the
particular proposal that we have now put was not specifically
placed before the Premiers at that time.
Ques tion
What will this decision tonight what effect will it have
on getti ng petrol flowing in NSW.
Prime Minister
I indicated that this was a longer-term matter and it can't
have an immediate.-impact on the Kurnell dispute which has flown
out of a divided jurisdiction. There is a meeting tomorrow
between the Chairman of the NSW Industrial Commission at
2: 00 o'clock and Sir John Moore, I think that is a very
uSeful initiative. I strongly believe that the Federal
jurisdiction, the authority, should be upheld because otherwise
the oil industry is going to e fragmented and I would hope
that whatever comes out of that meeting will be supported.
But what I put, have spoken of, this afternoon, this evening,
is against the longer-term background of trying to establish
an environment in which Governments can work more closely
together to remove some of the causes of disputes in Australia.
QuestiLon Have you had contact with Mr. Wran at all?
Prime Minister
No, I haven't.. Our Cabinet meeting ended only relatively
shortly before you came in and messages will be going to the
Prentiers as soon as they can be draffted in relation to that
particular matter. But, I emphasise it obviously doesn't offer
a solution to the present dispute.
Ou 0.= St
How soon would you wish these talks with the States to go
ahead on the question of referral of powers?
Prime Minister
I have indicated that we will be listing the general question
of industrial relations and this will obviously be a part to
the Premieres Conference which is due to meet at the end of
this month. So often, in the question of industrial disputes, / 7
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Prime Minister ( continued)
and we have had two classic examples over recent days, NSW
with NSW powers very largely under divided jurisdiction
that is causing the problem, and in Western Australia it is
a different cause, different circumstances, but again, disputes
of the utmost severity coming out of Western Australia in which
our powers for dealing with it are very limited indeed.
Question You have yourself said earlier today that the Western Australian
court case is very likely to be adjourned. Do you think it would
be useful to be holding discussions on such a long-term
imnortant matter as the referral of powers, while obviously
a fispute will still be going on in this particular area that
you are talking about?
Prire Minister
But their Police Act the States would still have their
Police Acts. le are talking about powers in relation to industrial
jurisdiction and that wouldn't alter or modify or affect in
any way what the various states have within their various
Police Acts. So that in a sense is a separate question. It is
only relevant to the extent that the dispute in Western Australia
has risen out of State causes and the Commonwealth has very
limited capacity to do much about it. The general proposal that
we have put about a referral of industrial powers is not one
that probably could have affected that kind of situation. It
could I believe have a very real relevance in the NSW situation.
But what has hapoened in W1estern Australia just emphasises
again that we can have very severe disputes. People often
look to the Cotonwealth for their resolution, they don't always
see that the Commonwealth does not have the power, the
constitutional right to intervene. While the causes are
different, that happens to be true in a real sense in NSW at
the moment and in a real sense in Western Australia.
Question Do you see the contradiction', Mr. Fraser, between seeking
more central Government power and the general philosophy ( inaudible).
P-r-ie Minister
Nc, none at all, because there are some things that a
Co= rcnwealth has to do. The Commonwealth has to be responsible
by and large for the management of the economy. You can't
de-centralise that. But I ought to emphasise that decisions
have not been made. The industrial climate is one of great
seriousness and we are prepared to sit down with the States and
the Australian Council of Trade Unions to see whether or not
we cannot, together, devise a better approach to these
particular matters. / 8
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Question On the question of Thursday's national protest, what will
the Commonwealth' s attitude -to Co= rn. r.; ealth emrployees.. will they not be4-paid'
Prime Minister
People who don't turn up for work certainly won't get paid. I would
hope that nobody who doesn't turn up for work would get paid
whether it is Commonwealth employment, State employment or
private employment.
Question That will apply to Commonwealth public servants or other
( inaudible)
Prine Minister
To Com-monwealth employees if they don't turn up for work
they won't be paid. That's the normal rule that applies, there
is nothing new in that.
Question
Will they be sacked?
Prm Minister
I think that's a different question.-
Question
You have indicated that you are not happy with the steps
Mr. Wran has taken in his emergency powers, what are you
suggesting he should have done to get those men back to work?
Prime Minister
That's for him to decide under his own emergency powers.
He does have very extensive powers. I pointed out he has
used those powers for one half of the equation and not for the
other half.
Q n
Federal Government would use -the other half?
= e: 1in r
I -think it's reasonable enough'-to wait until you see the
result of the conference being held tomorrow afternoon. But
after that if there is still no resolution, Mr. Wran might well
need to consider using those emergency powers. He was certainly
prepared to use emergency powers in the " Truckies dispute"
sometime ago and passed special legislation of a fairly severe
kind, as you would understand. / 9
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Question In the unlikely event that the States did agree to this
proposition to hand over powers -to the Commonwealth, does
the Federal Governmpent have any industrial legislation in
mind to introduce to give us more, wider powers, to handle
industrial disputes in the Federal jurisdiction?
Prime Minister
The Commonwealth has significant powers in a number of areas.
The Minister has proposals that will be being put to the
Government very shortly when he returns from the International
Labour Organisation meeting. The Arbitration Act is kept under
pretty constant review. I think it has to be because it is
a ci. anging scene. Tactics, approaches, differ as time passes.
It is one area where I think there is no perfect law which
WLII stand for all time. It depends very much on the practices
that are pursued. As one gains experience you see things
tnat need modification or change.
Question Then propositions will be put to Cabinet regardless of this
la-tes-t ( inaudible).
Prime minister
There have been propositions that have been under examination
partly by Cabinet committee and by the Minister and relevant
departments over the last four or five months. They have
been under examination quite separately from the issues that
are before us at the moment. 000---