PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH " TODAY TONIGHT" SHOW
BRISBANE 16 JUNE 1979
Question: Prime Minister, on Thursday you have a threatened national
stoppage. Is it your intention to do anything about it,
to in-ervene?
Pr i-. e Minister:
I been keeping in very close touch with Mr Viner, and
I hae also spoken to Des O'Neil, who is the Acting Premier,
in relation to this particular matter. It is very serious,
but I doubt really if everyone understands precisely what
has happened. I have been advised that there was a
compulsory hearing in relation to a dispute in the Pilbara,
which was actual! v in process, and that a number of people
we-z along, disrupted the hearing, prevented it going ahead,
and virtually called a meeting disrupted it on the
doorsteps of the hearing. Now, I don't think that message
has got through, and, if that is correct, I think it might
put a slightly different view of what has occurred.
In addition to that, of course, nobody can be above the
law. If a law is bad, people can look at that in calm
circumstances and then examine it. But the law in Western
Australia, again as I am advised, is related to meetings
in a public place. I am told that there have been several
hundred meetings under the law and no problem whatsoever.
I have also been advised that the particular people concerned
mirht well have gone along and advised the police that they
were going to break the law. In other words, they knew what
it was and the law had not been oppressive, I don't think,
as I am advised that...
Question: Ycu don't believe that it is oppressive?
Prime Minister: ajm advised, I don't believe that there are
al--c: ses. I n wn-ch the right to hold a meeting had been
witheld. And there is a question of the protection of the
general public when meetings are in public places, no question
of private places. Against that kind of background, I think
we want to make quite certain that we have a full understanding
of the facts before we go in and say that a law should not be
upheld. So often people say that in industrial cases the law
should not apply, the trade unionist is above the law. Now,
our society just won't work that way, and it is saying something
terribly serious and terribly dangerous if we are going to
say that any particular trade unionist has carte blanche to
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do what he likes break any law if it is in the name of
trade unionism.
Question: Sir, that very attitude, it would seem to me, is going to
exacerbate the situation, because it is not the interpretation
of the trade unionists, put on what has happened in Western
Australia. Prime Minister:
I know. But also what I have just said as to the facts, I think,
is not understood. Now, I said if what I have been advised
is :: rrect. I put that proviso on it. I have no reason to
believe it is not correct, but I haven't been able to check
and: ' double-check up to this point.
Ques tion:
All right, then let's put it this way. You don't want a
national stoppage on Thursday, do you?
Pr-me Minister:
No, of course we don't.
Question: Is there much you can do to avoid that happening?
Prime Minister:
I think it might be very difficult, but one of the things
that would certainly help is understanding of what the
circumstances were about. Now, if again, as I have been
told, the people concerned had in fact disrupted a compulsory
hearing called to settle a particular dispute, if that had
been done deliberately and designedly, well then I'm not too
sure that that is something that the authorities should
ignore. I think that is a serious matter.
Question; So, you are really going to stand by the West Australian
government by the sound of it.
Pr-e : i~ izer
What I have said is subject to confirmation in relation to
the facts. But I think we need, again, to understand that
if we are going to say that a particular group of people are
beyond the reach of the law within Australia, then we are
saying something that has fundamental consequences for the
nature and development of Australian society. We know very
well that trade unions exert very great power. Sometimes
they use that power with a real degree of irresponsibility. / 3
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Nobody ever says that companies, that individually have much
much less power than I think the trade union movement, should
be beyond the law, and if a company or company director
breaks the law, it comes down on him like a ton of bricks.
It is only in the trade union area, and for the very reason
that unions are so powerful, for the very reason they can have
so much influence, for the very reason that they can cause so
much harm and disruption not only to the general community but
also to their own members, they cannot be placed above the
law. Question:
All rj-ight. They have the power to bring this nation to a
standstill on Thursday. You have the power to stop it.
I t. "-that most people would say stop it Prime Minister.
Cerainly that is what is being said in the papers today
and the employers.
Prime 4inister:
I think that is one thing too but I'm not too sure again
how many employers in the Eastern states understand what it
is a1l about. You have the power to stop it people have
the tower to give in to every union demand. If that is the
onl-,_ way it can be stopped, that also is saying something
very fundamentally serious about the nature of Australian society.
Question: Have you told the -; est Australian government not to yield?
Prime Minister:
No, I have discussed it with Des O'Neil, I have discussed the
matter with Ian Viner, and against that background I have
been principally wanting to make myself fully advised as to
the facts of what had occurred. Frmi what I have been told as to
the facts at the moment I think it would be very difficult to
see a cause for intervention by the Australian government to
disrupt the processes of the law. Sir Charles Court has said
that after the matter is over he is prepared to look at the
law and the application of the law. He has made that perfectly
pla--. But against the background that there would have
appeared to be a very deliberate attempt to disrupt a
comzp-sory conference designed to settle an industrial dispute
between management and labour in the Pilbara.
Question: Can I put it to you though that it may simply be this: someone
exercising the fundamental right of assembly. That is quite
democratic. Prime Minister:
Yes, there is a fundamental right of assembly, but is there a
fundamental right to disrupt a compulsory conference called
by the industrial authorities? Is that the way we are to
conduct our business? ./ 4
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Question: All right. An illegal assembly is what you are saying.
Prime Minister:
It would have been very easy for the people concerned, as I am
advised, to make it a legal assembly very easy.
Question: Prime Minister, let's change the subject. I think I would
be pretty right in saying that the average Queenslander, at
the mo-ment, is very suspicious about the way the Federal
Gove.. ent and the State Government have gone about dissolving
the : u-estion whether there is to be drilling on the Great
Barri_ r Reef. I think most Queenslanders believe that at
som.= oint in time the Reef will be drilled. Do you think
I an. rong?
Prime Minister:
I think probably. I haven't had that view put to me over the
last four days when I have been travelling quite widely in
Queensland. I think you need to understand what has happened.
We made a decision to support the Royal Commission findings
in relation to the Barrier Reef. There will be short and long
term research, and no question of drilling arises until after
that research is undertaken and then we look at it. So, there
certain. y can't be any immediate problem. Secondly, we have
come to final and complete arrangements about the management
of the Reef itself. The authority of the Great Barrier Reef
Marine Park Authority, under its present act, remains totally
unimpaired. Now, certainly I announced with the Treasurer
that there would be a ministerial council that would monitor
and survey what is happening and make recommendations to
Government. But if there isn't agreement on that Ministerial
Council, it is the Federal Government that would have to make
up its mind, and under its own act the authority of the Great
Barrier Reef Marine Park not only operates over the full region
of the Reef, but it will also operate over that area of the
Reef that will encroach on Queensland's three-mile territorial
sea. where we want. to give the States practical power for a
nu..-ber of other reasons not related to the Reef. But we wanted
to do that in a way that wouldn't prejudice or diminish
the responsibilities and authority of the Great Barrier Reef
D-A-4-rty So, T think the government of Queensland
has Deer ve-reasonable indeed in this particular matter.
The-7 didn't press us to alter the Commonwealth act. They
accepted that as a fact of life, and they have accepted as a
fact of life that it should cover the whole region of the
Reef.
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Can suggest, though, that all that is very confusing. That
wan Scme Queenslanders want is an assurance, a very firm
assurance, that there will never be oil drilling on or near
the 2arrier Reef. All you have said so far really is that
there u7on't be any drilling on the Reef.
Prime Minister:
No, we've said much more than that. We have said that there
is going to be a great deal of research undertaken before
anv decisions are made. Secondly, we have made it perfectly
plain that the power of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park
Authority is totally unimpaired. It will be conducting its
proper activities, the proclamations will be going ahead,
and really in this particular matter there is nothing
whatsoever to be concerned about.
Question: So, the possibility is there though, is it not, that given
the right conditions, given the right recommendations, that
drilling could go ahead on the Barrier Reef?
Prime Minister:
Certainly not in any kind of short-term time train, because
thE -esearch has got to be undertaken first, recommended by
ti son, and depending upon the result of that
res-arch then governments can make decisions. But you are / 6
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asking me to say in a thousand years time can I give a
guarantee something won't happen, obviously I can't. There
will be different governments in power and all the rest
as you go down the track into the distant future. But the
Great Barrier Reef's safety is assured absolutely.
Question: Do you have a personal view on it, even with all the recommendations.
Science makes mistakes, we all know that.
Prime Minister:
I have a personal view that governments should not take any
risks whatsoever with the Reef. You mightn't know, but I was
a fundation member of a conservation foundation long before
conservation and environmental matters were a popular issue.
I have been instrumental in getting the world wildlife fund
estZilished in Australia. The record of this government in
env-; rcnmental matters I think is second to none. Sir Peter Scott
the other day, as the President of the World Wildlife Fund,
indicated that in environmental matters, with its decisions on
wha-ling, policies on whaling, Kakadu National Park, Fraser Island,
all of these matters, we have set a world lead. Australia's
nam. e stands very high. The decisions we have taken in relation
to the Great Barrier Reef stand in the same vein. Nobody is
going to take a risk with the future of the Reef.
Question: Prime Minister, one thing that does worry Queenslanders too,
and it relates to the Reef again, and that is inadequate
surveillance really. As you know, Taiwanese are taking out
hundreds of tons of clams off the Reef. Do you regard the
surveillance of -hat area as adequate?
Pri:-e Minister:
Well it has greatly improved under the new surveillance
arrangements that have been introduced over recent months.
Obviously we have to make an assessment later as to how the
new arrangements are working, whether they themselves are
adequate. We hive. made quite sure, because of the involvement
of . rv light aviation that the shortage of Avgas is not
going to reduce surveillance around the Australian coast.
The army, with their aircraft will be filling in the gaps,
not -sinc Avgas, I think their turbine aircraft can use a
dif-ferent fuel. So surveillance, around the Queensland coast
and across the north of Australia is something which we are
taking very seriously. The arrangements that my Government
introduced to undertake that are certainly giving us a much
better coverage than we have ever had before. Now, whether
that is totally adequate or not, we'll have to make a
judgement about it. But we also have to get some kind of
return for what we do with surveillance. If you are going to
be watching every piece of water 24 hours a day with the
coastline Australia has, that is then an operation which would
cost a massive amount of money. / 7
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Question: You raised the question there of Avgas, and that does concern
a lot of Queenslanders.
Prime ' niSter:
It greatly concerns the Government also.
Question: Is t> ere much you can do about it?
Pri= a MIinister:
Ove-rcent days we have been conducting a survey of all the
oil = zmpanies. We want to assess as to whether or not there
is a y direct action that the Government can take which would
help in this particular matter. If we have to go into
Government purchasing to increase and enhance oil supplies to
Australia, then I'm quite certain we will stand ready to do
that But there would be not much point in going to government
pur :> ase if that meant that by other means, other devices, the
oil companies reduced their allocation to Australia. There will
be a report ready for the Government very shortly. It's not
not only in Avgas. The whole oil scene is one for concern, and
I think we will need to be introducing some measures in
relation to conservation, in relation to encouraging people
to move to other : orns of energy perhaps much more rapidly.
Question: Do you think we are going to have rationing very soon?
Prime Minister:
Wel! obviously one would hope that we can avoid that. And I
think it's too early to make a judgement about it. But I
certainly can't put a guarantee that that could not arise.
In some countries thete has been enforced rationing by the
lac: of availability of oil, and it is not helped when the
Unlz= d States continues with oil, fuel, that is too cheap
because they haven't got a world parity pricing policy, and
I was even advised that they are subsidising the import of
heating oil by $ 5 a barrel. That doesn't sound to me like a
ccTsr= vation measure.
Question: It doesn't look good thought does it at the moment for
Australia? I think a lot of people would expect real energy
cutbacks very soon.
Prime Minister:
Well Australia needs certain things, because we're a large
country. People have to travel by road or by air under very
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substantial differences and therefore fuel is very important
to them. Having said that we're much, much better placed than
many countries. We have coal, we have uranium we have substantial
quanitites of natural gas and therefore we do have alternative
sources of energy within our own control. On the longer term,
there is research being undertaken about
with a German group and there's the possibility of shale ore
development in Queensland and I certainly hope the Queensland
Government will do everything it can to process that as rapidly
as possible, because I think we're going to be in a long-term
situation and the more self-sufficient we are the better but those
developments aren't going to help break in the shorter-term
situation and I think maximising the use of natural gas both in
the Sydney area has been enormous over the last ] 2 months
because of the opening up of the pipe-line. There's been a
ver-: substantial conversion of taxi fleets in Melbourne and
Syne; to gas-fired cars and maybe there's an opportunity for
muc* creater activity there. New South Wales and South
Austra. Lia could help much more by not insisting that their States
gc on-o higher emission standards which will make the cars more
expansive in the use of energy, less efficient and more expensive
an. i's the very wrong time for Government to be taking decisions
bu-zrom late cars use maybe 4% o5 5% more petrol for the same
ae. So there are a number of things we are looking at as a
matter of urgency. There are a number that we'll be wanting to
put to the States and a number of matters that we'll be looking
at on our own account. Now I hope all of this, which is under
the most vigorous examination by our officials will be ready for
the Government's determination quite shortly.
Question Prime Minister, thanks very much for talking to us.