PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT 27 APRIL' 1979
PRIME MINISTER ON " TALK TO THE GIANTS", PERTH-.
INTERVIEWED BY SCHOOL CHILDREN
( VIDEOCASSETTE FIELD IN PRESS OFFICE)
John Hludson,
In this series young Australians have the opportunity to
discuss with the nation' s leaders the decisions which will affect
their future life in this country. We are delighted to bring
together an audience of over 120 and a panel of four young
people whose ages range from 12 to 17, and they will " talk to
the giants". On this programme we have a very special guest. Will
you please welcome the Prime Minister of Australia,
Mr. Malcolm Fraser.
Prime Minister, thank you very much for being with us. Let
me set the field a bit. All the questions which are going to
be fired at you tonight have been prepared by the people here.
They've researched them, they've gone into them very thoroughly,
as I think you know. I reckon the next best thing is for you
to meet the panel, if you will.
Panel
Leon Cohen 17-year old student
Megan Simpson 16, from Perth College
Evelyn 14
David Monohan Madington High School.
Question
Mr. Fraser, what is the Australian Government doing to stop
strikes? Prime Minister
Stopping strikes is a continuous battle -if you like to put itand
I think there will always be some unions that go out on
strike. One of the things we are doing now in the Commonwealth
employment is to make sure that anyone who doesn't do their
full job, as directed, as asked, immediately gets stood down
and doesn't get paid. So there is a financial penalty if
people act in that way. We've tried to strengthen the law
so that individuals in a union can have a greater say in that
union's affairs and we will continue to do that.
Question
Do you think the unions are more powerful than the Government?
Prime Minister
No, they are not more powerful than the Government, but they
are sometimes very powerful and they sometimes behave with
total disregard for their effect on other people people
working in other industries and for the harm they can cause
throughout the whole community. I strongly believe that unions 2
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Prime Minister ( continued)
cannot and must not be placed above the law. They've got
to be responsive to it, just as you are, just as I have
to be.
Question The thought of atomic radiation and leakages and things
like that it kinds of scares me for my future. Why was there
no referendum on uranium?
Prime Minister
Governments are elected to govern and if you had a referendum
everytime there was an important question, then I don't think
Government decisions would ever really be made. You've got
to make a decision, you've got to argue that decision, and
if people like it they will presumably go on supporting you.
If they don't like it, they presumably won't.,
Question Sir, but don't you think this matter was of sufficient
importance to have a referendum?
Prime Minister
No, not more important than a lot of other decisions, no I don't.
The'only decision the Commonw~ ealth Government has made is
for mining and export of uranium. I've got no doubt that at
some stage-and I know this State has made a decision to move
into nuclear power for peaceful purposes it is worth noting
that in spite of the accident that took place at Harrisburg,
the nuclear power industry has to this point been the safest,
more safely developed, as a power industry for peaceful
purposes than any other form of pow., er. I saw Professor Titterton
on television the other night making a point that a petroleum
truck had exploded in Spain and 100 people had been killed.
The record, in terms of not hurting people, in the nuclear
power industry, is a tremendously good one and that needs to
be understood.
Question
With respect sir, I can't contain myself. You said the uranium
issue was not of sufficient importance to have a referendum.
Are you implying that it is of less importance than the
National Anthem?
Prime Minister
I think that's a good question and you've probably got me
there. But I felt even though I was in favour of Waltzing
Matilda because this is the song that stirs Australian hearts
right around the world and which is recognised as Australian..
I think this seemed to be a decision which is something that
belonged is personal to all Australians. But the nuclear
matter was one which was complex, difficult and we believed
it was a matter that Governments ought to decide in terms of
the mining and export of uranium. .1.3
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Qulest io n
But sir, democracy is rule by the people of the people.
Now, this is a decision which is going to affect us all
and if there is obviously such contention over it, shouldn't
it be put to the people rather than you making a decision
which perhaps they could totally reject?
Prime Minister
If they wanted to totally reject it, they can do something
that's what a ballot box, that's what a vote, an election is for.
Question With the next election coming up very soon, how do you think
the people...
Prime Minister
Not too soon. It's not next week.
Question Coming up in a while how do you think the people will react
to your judgement, the decision you have made?
Prime Minister
I believe when the next election comes around,. we will end
up with a pretty good majority after that-election.
Question Don't you think it's really like a totalitarian Government,
if you say we know what's best for the people, we will make
the decisions for them?
Prime Minister
It's only totalitarian when you don't have elections. One of
the very odd things I've been told the last two elections
were democratic. I hope people aren't going to go on telling
me that elections are not democratic because that's almost
an incitement not to have any more elections. That would be
a terrible thing.
Question
This is related to the questions of elections. To be able to
live up to all of the promises which a Government must make
around election time, a Prime Minister would either have to be
a Solomon or a second Messiah. Do you ever regret always having
to make these promises? 14
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Prime Minister
I think in one or two things that maybe we were over-ambitious,
but basically I try to say nothing which I don't believe can
be fulfilled. I have enormous confidence in the capacity for
judgement of the Australian people and I believe that politicians
who promise too much will certainly be seen through, and
quite quickly.
Question Sir,' in all probability, the public is using this criterion
as a method of gauging how successful the Government is.
Can you think of a better way for them to guage how successful
a Government is?
Prime Minister
It's not just a question of what you say at an election time.
It's also a question of what you are doing between elections
in the whole period of Government; whether you respond to the
problems that face the country and how the way you govern
generally affects the lives of Australians in every corner of
this country.
Questions from Audience
Question Why is so much money being poured into nuclear power and the
research into it, when surely solar energy would be
Australia's most valuable and safest form of energy?
Prime Minister
Australia isn't puttin~ g all that much money into nuclear power
research. We need to stay up with modern technology. We would
be putting more money I think into research into alternative
uses of coal. But for many countries overseas that haven't got
different that haven't got coal, they don't have much oil,
and they've come to believe the only way they can keep their
factories going and their homes heated in the winter is through
the use of nuclear fuel. A number of European countries will
have a very very high proportion of their total fuel requirements
supplied by nuclear reactors in five or ten years time. I don't
think they've got any option, as~ it is at the moment. The
scientific advice available to me indicates that solar power is
not really feasible as a source for major production of power
for maybe 30 years or more; for heating your hot water, for
doing some other household things of that kind, yes, there is
a role.
Question
A great number of Vietnam boat people have arrived in Australia
and many of us feel that they have been deliberately sent by
their Government. What views have you got of this?
Prime Minister
I don't think deliberately sent by their Government in a sense
that they were wanting to get people into Australia but I do
think for a while the Government of Vietnam was actively trying
to move people out who were dissidents in Vietnam and was
co-operating in a sense of art export of people. That was a
pretty horrible sort of way for a Government to go on. I think
you've got obligations refugees from Vietnam and we seek
to meet those obligations as best we can.
Question Your inflation policy seems mainly to benefit big business
and then they use their benefits to increase technology which
increases unemployment. Do you follow this policy as closely
as you do, because they fund a lot of your campaigns and
therefore tend to dictate to you-a bit?
Prime Minister
No, but I don't think you are right in the original assumption.
An anti-inflationary policy helps everyone and nobody does
well if there is too much inflation. One of the significant
local industries in Perth right at this moment has just
signed contracts for fishing boats to Burma. It has been able
to do that,, the Managing Director wrote to me, because inflation
was down, there is a stable labour force and because there
are export incentives. Now, that's a middle-ranking Australian
company doing a very job with Australian labour. There are many
companies in the same position. Getting inflation down will
enable all businesses to do better and sell more of their
products in Australia and more of their products overseas.
That's the only way we are going to be able to have Australians
fully employed again.
Question How can Australia possibly put up with the indiscrimate
acceptance of refu gees into our country, many of them who may
not be true refugees, having the power and the money to buy their
way onto these boats and obtain a fairly simple way of migrating
to Australia compared to the orthodox channels.
Prime Minister
We try and check to make sure they are proper refugees and
do qualify. If it is found that they don't then different
judgements are made about it. There is a very real refugee
situation coming out of South East Asia and I think we have to
recognize the facts of life of that.
Question Sir,, with the age of technology here to stay, wouldn't it be
better to hand over the Government to IBM?
Prime Minister
No, I don't really think so. I think that Computers are very
inhuman things and there is much nmore to Government than technology. 6
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Prime Minister ( continued)
Technology is something that we've got to use for the
benefit of people. It enables us to do some things better.
It enables us to free resources that can be used in other
ways. We've got to make sure that technology doesn't take
over.
Question Can you ever see a machine taking over the Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
Not in the sort of world I would want to live in.
Question If we are to cope with our ever-expanding technology, how,
can youever justify cuts in education.. We've an excess of
unemployed teachers, and we certainly have plenty of schools
and children who need them. Is it all some sort of a plan to
make people less educated so they will be forced to accept
more ( inaudible) jobs?
Prime Minister
No, I don't think so. I think people are better educated today
than they have probably ever been. I think, hope, that that
will go on being so. Cuts in education it's really a question
of talking about the rate of increase in expenditure more than
talking positively about cuts, I think, because enormous
additional sums have been spent on education. I think the
increase in part started when I was Education Minister quite
a large number of years ago. The facilities available, the
classrooms today, the number of teachers, the class sizes,
all are infinitely better than was the case even five or ten
years ago. I think this process is going to go on.
Quest ion
You have already said that there are children who aren't
receiving the attention they need. Now, surely if we have
these extra teachers, it's wicked not to use them to help
these children.
Prime Minister
One of the problems with the numbers of teachers that arc
available I think is that when there was very high employment
in Australia and very little unemployment, a lot of people
entered the teaching profession and then went on to do something
else because other jobs were available. Therefore to have
enough teachers all the State Governments and the Commonwealth
Government also, because we were involved, had teaching colleges
and teacher training in universities and in fact were teaching,
or had a capacity, to produce more teachers, than the system
needed. 7
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Quest ion
You were saying before that there is better education and
everything like that. Why is there so much unemployment, if
everyone is better educated?
Prime Minister
There is unemployment for a number of different reasons.
One of them is that wages went up too much; female rates
went up 37 percent one year, and male rates went up 27 percent
in the same year and Australian factories just couldn't sell
what they were producing because the costs were too high.
So Australians started to buy more from overseas. Australian
manufacturers lost their markets overseas. If Australian
manufacturers can't sell what they are trying to produce, they
won't be able to employ people. Now we had to get all that
right so that Australian industry can sell and compete again
in Australia and in markets outside.
Question I understand that the Colombo Plan still finances a large
number of foreign students studying at our University.
This is at a time when many of the Australian students are
finding it difficult to obtain a tertiary allowance. Do you
think that is a fair situation?
Prime Minister
Yes I do. The number of foreign students in Australian
universities I think is roughly the same as it was in about
1960-61 and the numbers and places available at Australian
universities and colleges of advanced education has grown
enormously since then. The proportion is smaller than it used
to be and I am not sure that I like that because I think Australia
has got an obligation to South East Asian and Asian countries.
I think we've got an obligation to developing countries. I also
believe that if kids from these countries can come and study
at Australian institutions and make friends in Australia that
this is one of the best long-term things to guarantee a good
relationship between Australia and countries of Asia to our
north and other places. I am strongly in favour of the Colombo
Plan and overseas students being able to come to our. institutions.
Question Do the Asians provide a money scheme for us, if we go to
their universities?
Prime Minister
No, but they wouldn't have many universities and we would have
a much higher proportion of our population going to universities
and colleges than they would.. In some Asian countries the
average income might be $ 200, $ 300, $ 400 a year, per head.
Compare that with the position in Australia. The standard of
life is so very different. I think it is hard for us sometimes
to understand. The technical aid, the aid through higher
education, I think is one of the obligations that Australia
owes to other countries that aren't quite so well off as we are.
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Question was Britain's protege, and now it looks like we are
trying to lick the boots of the United States. D~ O you believe
that Australians are a dependent people, that we need to
forever to tag along in the shadow of some larger nation?
Prim~ e Minister
I don't really think we are tagging along in the shadow of
any nation. We are Australian, we are independent, we make
our own decisions. Certainly we have an alliance with the
United States and New Zealand but we gain out of that alliance
and we play our part in relation to it. But on many international
policy issues, Australia takes here own path completely, argues
with the United States or argues with Britain, or countries
in Europe and will continue to do that.
Question With respect sir, could you say that when you make your
decisions on international policy, especially trade, that those
decisions are completely free of consideration with the
alliances and the concessions that you give the United States,
that they demand of you?
Prime Minister
If you'd heard some of the discussions that have gone on over
trade matters between ourselves and the United States in
particular, but also between ourselves and Europe or other
countries,, or Japan, you couldn't for one minute believe that
what we were saying is modified or softened because of other
considerations of a strategic kind or of an alliance kind.
Question But isn't it true that the United States'companies, large ones,
for example UTAH mining, pay much receive tax concessions
they pay much less tax that all other countries?
Prime Minister
No, they get the same taxes as other countries as other
companies and UTAH pays vast sums in taxes and royalties.
Don't hold me to ransom it's something like $ 160 m $ 200 m
a year in taxes from UTAH going into either the Queensland
Treasury or the Commonwealth Treasury. There are no concessions
available that I am aware of, to foreign companies, that
aren't aLvailable to Australian. W& do try and treat all
companies the same.
Question H-ow do you feel about being depicted like this?
( Picture from Pickering's Calendar).
Prime Minister:
That's Pickering's that's his old calendar, isn't it?
1/ 9
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Question Last year.
Prime Minister
I was a little bit hurt becaulse l1e left Me out Of this
last one.
Que stion.
You haven't quite answered the question. How do you feel
about being depicted like this?
Prime Minister
Well, it's just like being depicted any other way, isn't it?
People draw cartoons of you sometimes they put clothes on,
sometimes they take clothes off. Larry Pickering can do it
either way as far as I am concerned.
Question Did Tamie and the kids see it?
Prime Minister
If they did they hid it from me. They probably thought I
would have been embarrassed.
Question I come from a family of three children and my father has a
great influence on all of us. How does you job as Prime Minister
affect your children and how to find the time to guide and
discipline them?
Prime Minister
I was a politician when I first got married and I've got to
pay most of the credit for keeping the family, and I hope keeping
everyone sane, to Tamie. It's really only since I have been
Prime Minister that she has come around much with me and done
some things in her own right as the Prime Minister's wife.
She's been able to do it over the last three years because
our eldest boy was leaving school and going out and starting
to make his own way. The other kids were a bit older and they
were at boarding school. But this is something that it really
has it's worried me all my political life because I have seen
kids, I think, get into trouble because parents haven't been
at home enough maybe both parents working and politics just
wouldn't be worth it if that happened to your own kids. It wouldn't
be worth it so far as I was concerned. So I think what you
try and do is those times when you can bc together, you've got
to try and make sure your own children know and understand that
they are the most important thing to you. It might be only
for a short while, for a weekend or whatever, but while you
are there, they are the things that are important.
10
Prime Minister ( continued)
I have always tried to do some things we mentioned fishing
earlier that's something you can do as a very old man, so
you can always do it with your kids. We took a camping trip
up through the Northern Territory as a family. I pay most
of the credit to Tamie. I think she's held all this together.
Question every year we hear of young people overseas imprisoned
in some countries for things they don't really know what
they are doing, they are looking for different lifestyles and
they break laws in countries which have in some cases,
corrupt legal systems. What is your attitude towards these
Australians. Do you try to help them and if they are in prison,
does the Australian Consulate keep a continued check on their
welfare when imprisoned?
Prime Minister
Yes. This is one of the jobs of the consulate service right
around the world. But I would like to make one point and make
it's a warnihg also that's been made by the Government on a
number of occasions. If people do trangress the laws of other
countries there isn't always a great deal that you can do
about it. If people are going into other countries they do
need to try and understand what the laws are. That applies
especially if anything to do with drugs in involved.
In a number of South East Asian countries where there has been
a real drug problem, the laws are very severe, very strict,
and they are upheld very vigorously indeed. I am afraid that
in spite of warnings, a number of young Australians have got
into trouble because of that in places like Bangkok.
Question When they do get into trouble, does the Australian Government
try to get them out of it?
Prime Minister
You try and help, but at the same time, if they've plainly
transgressed the laws of the country and if there is clear
evidence, for example, that they have been involved in drugs
against the laws of the country, I don't think it is setting
too good an example to say becau'se they are Australians they
should get off free. I really do feel very strongly about
people who are involved in the drug trade in one form or another.
Somebody who's sick and peddles...
Question It isn't always drugs. / 11
11.
Prime Minister
No, not always, but quite a number have been caught involved
with drugs in places like Thailand and that's what I'm saying.
But the consular service is there in country's around the
world, designed to protect Australians. It will use its
resou-rces as vigorously as it can. But people can't expect
to go into other countries and break their laws and just because
they are a foreigner get off scot-free. If people come from
other places into Australia and break our laws, and their
consular service comes down and says ' he's a foreigner, he didn't
really know' we say well, he broke our laws,, he will have to
answer in the courts.
Question Do you rely on your own judgement when making decisions or do
you take the advice of your consultants and advisers?
Prime Minister
It depends a lot on what the particular issue is, but on important
issues I think you don't want to make a judgement too quickly.
You want to make sure you've got all the advice you can. That
advice will come from the Public Service. It might come from
your Party organisation, it might come from your Parliamentary
colleagues. Certainly it comes from your Cabinet colleagues,
and then having got all the information you can, all the advice
you can, the Cabinet sits down to make up its mind. But you
try and gather in all the information that's available, hopefully
so that you make the best and wisest decision.
Question Generally, how many advisers do you have.?
Prime Minister
A lot of people would say too many because they say all the
Public Service are technically advisers. That numbers tens
and tens of thousands, but the numbers that you actually are
in touch with would be relatively few.
John Hudson
You've certainly got enough.
Prime Minister
There are enough advisers, yes. But you can always go to people
outside in the community if there is a particular thing, a
technical matter, you need advice on. You can go to people in
industry, you can go to people in universities, and really all
the wisdom of a country is available to a Government is only
a Government is prepared to try and tap it, find it, and use it.
/ 12
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Question
This is a question you have probably never been asked
before and will probably never be asked again you are
tall, dark and handsome, do you find this helps you to relate
to women in politics
Prime Minister
I don't think I know.
Question Would you find this helped you to relate to women in general?
Prime Minister
You just talk with people and whether it's men or whether
it's women, you meet them as they are and try and treat people
as they are. Hopefully, they will do the same with you. So
whether you are long, whether you are short, whether you are
fat or whether you are thin, I think how you react to people
and how they react to you very often depends a lot on your
own feelings and having respect for people. I think its the most
important thing in any relationship and I think that's probably
much more important than your shape or your size.
Question Thi_ is the first time that you have had this sort of
discussion with young people like us. Why haven't you talked
to us before and how can you possible legislate about our
problems if you don't have enough contact with us to find out
what they are?
Prime Minister
I think the programmes a good idea. I haven't done this sort
of programme before because I haven't been asked before. I do
go on talk-back programmes. I have been on other interview
programmes of different kinds, but I don't think with people
under sort of university or senior college age before. I think
it's a good idea and people are interested in politics I think
much younger than they used to be, certainly much younger than--
when I was school people didn't talk about politics. We talked
about football, who was going to win cricket on Saturday, and
that was nearly the end of it. I think people's interests are
much wider today and I think that is a good thing.
Question Do you feel that you are in contact with the feelings of the
youth of Australia?
Prime Minister
We try to be. We have established a Department of Employment
and Youth Affairs and Ian Viner will be announcing fairly shortly
a National Youth Council which is designed to try and help us
keep in touch. As a memnber of Parliament I advertise still / 13
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Prime Minister ( continued)
even as Prime Minister I still regard my representative job
in my own electorate as a very important one. I still advertise
if I am going to be in a certain place in one of my country
towns at a certain time for a few hours so that constituents
of all sizes and shapes and ages can come and speak to me
if they want to, and put whatever problemns they want to. Quite
often young people come and talk to me just as much as their
parents do or other people might. I've always regarded it
as important to try and keep in touch. You make yourself
accessible, it's up to people to take the opportunity. People
can write. You would, I think, surprised, how many letters
I get from kids who are at school putting a point of view
about one thing or another and when they write I try and answer.
Question You've said in the past that you've been greatly influenced
by the late Sir Robert Menzies. Would it be fair to say
that your are into his philosophy of strong leadership and
authoritarian command, right up to the Menzian eyebrows?
Prime Minister
I don't know. I think other people would have to judge that.
But I do believe very very strongly that the collective wisdom
of a group of people is going to be much better than the
judgement of a single person. That's why you have Cabinet
Government, collective responsibility and you discuss things
and people go into that room with certain. views. They come out
of it with one view having discussed it fully. I think, again,
that's the way it should be, because no one person's got
certainly all wisdom or all the best of judgement.
Question Will your kids ever receive a dole cheque?
Prime Minister
I hope not. I hope they will be able to get themselves a
job. My eldest boy, Mark, is jackarooing he did three
years jackarooing, two years in the Riverina and once in the
Snowy Mountains area one year. He is now at Glen
Agriculture College and he wants to go on the land. I think
he's learnt a good deal about that. Angela is at the Royal
Melbourne Institute of Technology doing interior design.
The other two kids are still at-school. The boys have always
seemed to be able to get a bit of work. Hugh is at boarding
school in Canberra. But if he wants to make some pocket money
he manages to get some weekend work around Canberra.
" Question Do you think this is due to you being the Prime Minister? 14
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Prime Minister
No, I don't think so. I think the problem with employment
at the moment is very often the problem it's not a problem
of the whole age groups it's a problem of say ten or
maybe 15 percent of an age group who mightn't have quite the
samec motivation, mightn't Present them-iselves quite so well,
mightn't have so much confidence in themselves, mightn't
have been helped so much by their parents not because it's
their parent's fault--and if kids are doubtful about their
own capacity, their own ability, I think these days it can be
difficult for them to get work. That's one of they reasons
why we have a whole range of training programmes. I also think
the schools ought to pay more attention than they do to this
in the sense 10 or 15 percent of an age group who are the ones
that might find it difficult to get work. ' So often some schools
pay attention to the bright, the able, and they are the ones
who are going to get scholarships or exhibitions and
distinctions. But everyone is a person. I think it is often
people at the other end of the capacity level who need most
help. They haven't always got it from schools or from other
institutions. Quest ion
My name is Allan Logan. The defence of the north coast of
Australia, particular Western Australia, seems to have been
neglected. What do you propose to do about this?
Prime Minister
I don't think it's neglected. We are slowing d eveloping a Navy
that can operate in two oceans. Major naval facilities have
been built on the West Coast. We've also got Orion aircraft.
We will have better patrol boats that are being built in
Australia. Question What was your reaction to the book that was written about
you " The Wit of Malcolm Fraser"?
Prime Minister
There really couldn't be much reaction because there was nothing
on it, was there?
Question
My name is Melinda Riddle and I, like most people of my age,
are very concerned with the current employment situation in
Australia. I was wondering, what are you going to do about
discrimination between teenagers and adults. I notice that
a lot of women whose husbands are able to support their
families, are getting jobs in preference of the teenagers who
have just left school. What are you going to do about this?
/ is
15
Prime Minister
Two things I would like to say; I think a lot of teenagers
got jobs because the rates of pay are less and so I think
it would tend to even up a bit. Now, it would be very hard
to say to a woman, because you are married, because your
husband has a job, you can't get some work. A person is
a person as an individual and you can't get away from-,
that. What we have got to do is to get to a position where
people who want to work can get a rewarding job. I think
that's starting to happen.
John Hudson
Prime Minister, that is a pretty sharp area there. Youngsters
do find it difficult. They can get a job if they are paid
cheaper rates, but then adults can come along get part-time
labour and the younger people are penalised so often.
Prime Minister
Maybe, but if the younger person can do the job I think very
often the employer will go for the younger person because the
award rates are less for the younger person. That gives the
younger person a chance. Also, we talked about this earlier,
for each age group it's not the total age group, it's the
ten or fifteen percent who find it difficult, out of the
ago group. We do have special training programmes. I think
schools need to give more attention to it and we have to
keep the economy right so that industry can employ more.
Question I realise most of the people here are wondering about most
of Australia's what's going to happen to them in the future.
I am wondering about Australia's amateur athletics and all
the rest of the things. I know the Government puts some
nominal amounts of money into different sorts of sporting
fixtures what does the Government plan to do with future
programmes for amateur athletics, putting money into it
like most other countries do and making us more of a powerful
nation in this aspect.
Prime Minister
We've started, in recent times, different policies and I think
policies that are much better.' For the Olympic Games we are
providing much more than every before and we have given the
money in advance so that the various sporting associations can
have pre-Games training . and select-ion going . on over a period
of years, not just months before the Games; then of course
support for the team during the Games. We hope, on this basis,
to develop for the major international events, long-term
programmes which the various sporting bodies can manage and
operate. Hopefully Australians will then get back on top
where they ought to be. / 16
16
., Question
Do you consider yourself a " giant".
Prime Minister
I just consider myself a person I suppose. I am a bit
bigger than you are, but I am older and I am heavier than
I ought to be.
John Hudson
Does your question mean '" does the Prime Minister feel that
he is very powerful", a big man in that sense?
Prime Minister
The job doesn't make me feel that at all.-I just think there
is a job to do. The decisions you make are important for
people like yourselves, for people all around Australia and
you try and make the best decisions you can.
Question
My name is Sally Lynch. I was just going to ask you why are
the refugees channelled into the cities when they are more
accustomed to a rural way of life?
Prime Minister
It's a question of where there can be work and most of the
refugees have been able to get work without too much trouble,
in factories and whatever. I don't know that it would be
they have mostly been accustomed to a rural way of life in
Vietnam. There are some large cities. I don't know that a
majority of them have come from farms at all.
Question Getting to a more personalised question. Why did you enter
into Parliament?
Prime Minister
On one side I thought it would fit in well with running a farm
and I soon found it didn't that it was much more than a
full time job. When I was at un~ iversity I became interested
and concerned with politics and I think interested and
concerned about the future of Australia.
John Hudson
You've never thought about going into television?
* Prime* Minister
I've never thought about going into television, no. / 17
-17
Question If a war broke out and our allies didn't come,, would we
really have a hope?
Prime Minister
It would depend on the war. Australia is going to be
alright and Australia will survive long after me and long
after you. I don't believe there is going to be a war.
Question No but taking for granted that there will be, we will have
a hope, according to you?
Prime Minister
Of course we will, but the whole art of Government, the
whole purpose of foreign policy and defence policy, is to
look ahead to see what the dangers might be and then avoid
those dangers to see that they don't occur.
Question How close are you to Bob Hawke?
Prime Minister
We talk.
Question I think it is very good if two people who are on opposite
sides, if I may say that, can be friendly. Are you friendly
with Bob Hawke?
Prime Minister
Yes, when we meet in private, certainly.
Question And what have you discussed in these meetings?
Prime MinisterI
They wouldn't be private if I said, would they? It is important
to have the capacity to-be able to speak with people in
positions such as Mr. Hawke's and to be able to do it plainly
and to understand each other. Tony Street does this with them
all the time. I do it occasionally when it is necessary.
It won't work unless the confidences that take place then
are kept.
~ Questi'on
You are here to find out what the young people of Australia
feel and I feel, I think I am speaking for about all of us,
/ 18
-18
Question ( continued)
when I say quite simply that we don't want uranium in our
country, we don't want hugc sprawling foreign companies buying
Australia out from uinder our feet and we want to know more
about what is going on behind the closed oaken doors of your
Government office.
Prime Minister
I think that is a statement and not a question. You don't
want uranium and I can understand your concerns there, but
I think they are wrong. You don't want foreign companies
to buy out Australia, and we have foreign investment rules
to make sure that investment opportunities for Australians
are kepts as wide and as open as possible. But there will be
many less jobs for Australians if you don't have investment
from countries overseas. There you might have to make a choice
as to whether you want jobs to be available or whether you
want overseas people to invest in Australia which will help
to make more jobs available. There is a Freedom of Information
legislation. It is being debated by a Senate Committee. I think
something will come out of that. You asked me the questions
that you want to know the answers to. This has been your
opportunity, so what do you want to know that you don't know?
Question This may be a depressing area for a politician to talk about,
but when it eventually comes time for you-to step down from
politics, what is the greatest legacy which you could leave
behind? Prime Minister
I think a country that has been well governed but with a
good succession. I think that might be more important.
So often politicians leave and there isn't a quite succession,
there isn't a smooth transition for Government to go on well
after you have departed the scene; to let your successor
govern and not stay about in his hair.
John Hudson-
It's not an obituary programme, not yet, you've got plenty
of time to do things Prime Minister. It strikes us, some of
us, that it would be a good opportunity, if you like it, to
ask questions of the panel1, because-this is such a rare
occasion. Prime Minister
One quick one because from the second last one is there
any particular thing of Government that you want to know.
Question I just feel I know you are Prime Ministeraid you have to
guard your speech, but I don't really feel / 119
p19 Question ( continued)
we've received direct answers to all the questions that
we ' ye asked you.
Prime Minister
What question haven't you received a direct answer to?
Question You say that you feel that my views on uranium are wrong,
but why are they wrong? We are really concerned. We think
that... Prime Minister
Well alright, why are they wrong? They are wrong because there
are many countries that will not be able to heat their homes
in the winter. There are many countries where they will not
able to keep the power going for their factories if they don't
use nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes. It's as simple
as that. Therefore, this trade is going to go on. We want
it therefore to go on in the safest way possible and we can
influence that if Australia is involved in it because then we
can get the most secure non-proliferation regime if we've
got a powerful voice in the trade and making sure that it is
as safe as it can possibly be.
Question I could quite simply accept that if you just tell me the
answer to one question. What are you going to do with all
the nuclear waste which is going to live on after your
memory is completely gone?
Prime Minister
The nuclear waste at the moment is going into a glassified
form,, solidified and it is being buried underground.
Question But it will still be there?
Prime Minister
It will be there. But I am told by people who have much
more competence to judge than I have, because they have the
technical expertise, that that is a safe manner of disposal.
John Hudson
Are you satisfied with your question which you have
asked of the panel?
20
Prime Minister
It's so easy' to say the Government is secret and doesn't tell.
I like to know whlat the secrets are that we are meant to be
telling so we can talk about it. Again, that is partly
challenge. D_-vicl, is there something you want to know
about government that you have felt I haven't spoken about.
David No comment sir.
Prime Minister
There is one'other thing that I do want to say. At the
beginning I said " why haven't I come and spoken to you
before" and I said I haven't been asked. So, am I going to
be asked to come back in six months and do it again?
Same panel, same audience.
Question We accept the challenge.
Prime Minister
L have enjoyed it, have.. you?
Audience Ye s.
John Hudson
There's nothing really more for me to sa y except to thank you
very much, because this is a history-making programme. It's
not been done before, we are very grateful to you for making
it possible.
Prime Minister
I think it's been a good programme and I have enjoyed it and
I have enjoyed the questions. I think some of them have been
well thought out and well put. But there is I think a lot
of the questions are much better ~ than I get from I was
going to say more adult programmes but that is the wrong way
of putting it when the questions have been put by older
people because they sometimes stick on one point, they try to
get some admission out of you that you are not going to make
so they stay on that point for ten minutes, fifteen minutes
and I think it gets plain dull. I have enjoyed it and I have
enjoyed your questions.
John Hudson
Thank you very much. From the audience good night and from
the panel good night.
Prime Minister
Good night till six months. 000