PRESS OFFICE TRANSCRIPT 23 MARCH 1979
ETHNIC MEDIA CONFERENCE, SYDNEY.
Prime Minister:
matters that are current and of interest to you. But quite
apart from your own particular concerns, I would be very happy
to try and answer questions on any general matters that you
want to put to me. I think one of the things that has been of
concern to my Government over the last three years is the
adequacy of communication and consultation with different groups
and people within Australia and that obviously includes the
ethnic communities. I think that that consultation is very
important for a Government to have an adequate understanding
and awareness of the concerns, of the interests, of the problems
of people in different parts of Australia and coming from
different groups within Australia. One of the things that we
have sought to do in recent times as you know, is to provide
much improved services, post-arrival services, for people
who have come to Australia. We commissioned the Galbally
Inquiry and after very extensive consultation with community
groups right around the Commonwealth they made their report
and the Commonwealth has adopted that report in total.
The general implementation of the report's recommendations
I think is proceeding in a satisfactory way and we will be
continuing to press on with that. We have established a particular
machinery within the Commonwealth itself to make sure that
the programmes are implemented as quickly, expeditiously, as
we would want. In some areas the process of consultation
that we believe to be necessary has to an extent delayed
implementation of one or two elements of the programme. But by
and large, I think that it is going very well indeed. For example,
over the nex * t few months,, as a result of the report, there will
be two multi-cultural resource centres established; one in
Liverpool and one in Wollongong. They ought to improve the
services to these areas and I would hope stimulate further efforts
to self-help within those particular communities. We envisage
that the centres will enable community involvement and also
immediate coverage of their purpose and of their establishment
will encourage people from those communities to make use of
those resource centres. I don't think at the outset I would
like to say any more. I imagine we will cover a wide range of
topics as a result of whatever questions you might put to me.
I do believe, as I am sure you do, that you have a very particular
responsibility to the communities that you seek to serve and
the responsibility to represent the interests of your readers,
I hope also, as you would believe, to help your own readers to
understand the decisions of Government especially where they
are related such matters as the Galbally Report and its
recommendations which is meant to advance the interests of
many people within ethnic communities. 2
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Question: As Secretary for the last 25 years of the Association of
Foreign Language newspapers I would like to start the ball rolling
and to thank you for the fact that at long last, after about
five, six years of you could say frustration, we have the
opportunity to personally speak with you as the Head of the
present Government. For the last four or five years there has
been little or no contact between the foreign language press
and the Government. The previous Federal ( inaudible) by the
Coalition Government had established, first under the late
Sir Richard Boyer, an immigration publicity council which
contained nominated members of the various ethnic medias
and Australianmedia of all media which met four times
a year with the Minister for Immigration, the Head of the
Department of Immigration and some of his responsible officers.
When the Labor Government came in this was abolished and has
never been re-established since. That has created a complete
lack of communication between the foreign language press and
the Government. During the last five-six years the Association
has written numerous letters to the Minister for Immigration,
the Minister for Post -and Telecommunications and as you may
recollect, in despair at the end, to you personally trying
to get a personal talk about our problems. Now, at long last, we
are in a position, thanks to you, to have an open-hearted talk
about it; because during the last five-six years the foreign
language press, which has started the communication between
the Australian Government and the ethnic communities, has been
treated, I wouldn't say ( inaudible) but certainly as the
black sheep of the family, of the unwanted child. I have here,
you can have a look at this whenever it suits you, photocopies
of all the correspondence during the last five years between the
Association and the Minister for Immigration, there is also one
lette ' r addressed to you and you replied to it, and nothing has
come of that. The Minister for Immigration never had time to
see us, even though we put some very great pressure to bear
upon him at the end of last year when there was a special
meeting, not only of members of the Association, but of all
foreign language newspaper editors here and a special petition,
a special resolution was sent to him stressing again the great
problems and what we may expect from the Federal Government so
that we can continue the work we are doing. The main points in
it were I will give you the file so you can have a look at
the correspondence the main items were: ( inaudible)
re-establishment of regular contact between the Government and
the ethnic press; also support in the way of sufficient
Government advertising which has been promised, unofficially,
and which has come in a haphazard way now and then. For the
last 25 years we have tried to get the special concession rate
postage for the foreign language press as another way of
indirect assistance and that has always been rebuffed with the
idea the post office loses all that, so much, on publications
registered publications. Let that be. If there can be millions
put into ethnic radio and ethnic television, would it be such
a sacrifice to buy a special concession rate, considering
the educative purpose and task of the foreign language press,
to lose $ 20,000-$ 30,000 extra on that? The other point, of course,
was what we stressed, that if money is made available for the
foreign language press in the way of advertising, it is used in
3
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Question: ( continued)
an indiscriminate way. Lots of that money is frittered away
onto small ( inaudible) magazines little society magazines
and all that kind of thing. We have insisted in previous
letters to the Minister for Immigration, which you will find
in your pile too, that that should be thoroughly scrutinised
so that the money which is available for advertising in the
foreign language press goes to bona fide papers. Well you
may ask who is going to be the judge. There again, there is
no longer a Commonwealth Publicity Migration Advisory Council.
There cannot be a judge but certain civil servants of the
Department who do not know very much about it, only our
names. So the re-establishment of it, the Commonwealth
Publicity Advisory Council, with nominated representatives
from the various media, not people picked in a haphazard way,
willy-nilly, from various groups by the Minister either I
won't say social-cl ' imbers but people who like to hear their
own voice. The matter of the ethnic radio and the future of
ethnic television, which has been in the news so much and is
going to cost the Federal Government millions of dollars, has
now developed into a kind of ( inaudible)
they are now grabbing in the fields of the foreign language
press in that respect that they become unjustified competition
in the way of advertising, by announcing social functions from
clubs and societies which previously used to be advertised in
the foreign language press, even though ( inaudible), and this
is for most of the ethnic radio programmes, as making obituary
announcement, which used to be advertised, and all these kinds
of things. This of course, is not in my opinion the task of
radio stations but that is not the point. The various European
countries, when radio and television started to take part of
the income away from the press, a certain slice of what was
spent on that was given to the press during a period of years
as a kind of compensation and either the ethnic radios stop
from giving free advertising or a certain slice of the money
spent on them should be spent, as a compensation, on the
foreign language press. These are only a very few points.
Mr. Prime Minister I have been fighting in the front line of
this foreign language press interest for the last 27-28 years
and this maybe my swan song, because I am getting a bit old
and a bit tired of it. The frustration that we had to go
through in the past five-six years has taken a lot out of us
because when we write letters like the ones you have there in
front of you and there is no reply and there is a flat refusal
to come and discuss it with us, well you can understand how
the frustration works on us and how the problem costs us years
of our lives which is neither here nor there. We want to be
constructive. We want ( inaudible) in which a Government can
help us financially by a concessional postage rate for which
we have been fighting for 25 years and always been put off
in an officious way when we are losing already so much money.
On the other hand, millions are spent on other things like
ethnic radio. Also, a fair deal of Government advertising
channelled into the right channels, in the bona fide newspapers
and not frittered away in any way. And if, after fighting for
27 years, something can be achieved by this talk with you,
well I can put my head to rest in a couple of years ( inaud). / 14
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Prime Minister:
Thank you for that question. It's my understanding that the
Minister, Mr. MacKellar, does make himself available very
frequently for discussions with different people, including
the ethnic press. I've said at the outset that I have wanted
to have meetings with you more frequently than I have in
the past, but this isn't the first ethnic press conference
that I have had in Sydney, although I think there are more people
here than there have been on other occasions. It is not the
first by any means and I recognise some familiar faces amongst
you. You raise two problems: the question of postage of ethnic
newspapers is not one that it would be easy to confine merely
to ethnic press. It really wouldn't. I live in a country part
of Australia where, when I first became a Member of Parliament,
there were about 14 local newspapers. Now they were small
regional newspapers servicing a small country town, small country
community maybe a slightly larger town like Warrnambool
or Hamilton, one's 20,000 people the other's 10,000 people.
I have had many more representations from them about postage and
newspapers than I think you might have made to the Commonwealth
in your interests. But the interest and the concern is the
same. We've sought to see that changes in postage rates hasn't
worked too much against the interests of ethnic press, or small
regional newspapers, because we recognise the importance of
the papers and recognise that they have a responsibility to
serve their own communities or their own regions. I will talk
with Tony Staley, the Minister for Post and Telecommunications,
about the present position and see what is planned for the future
and I will have a look at the position with him. But it is
a long-standing position, as you made plain. It doesn't only
concern you, it concerns a number of other newspaper proprietorsnot
the great national dailies but the small local country, or
regional newspapers.
The point on advertising is an important one and over a period
of six or seven years the sums the Commonwealth spends on
advertising quite directly in the ethnic press has gone from
I think about $ 5,000 a year to about $ 250,000 a year. Now you
might say that it ought to be much more than that but we recognise
the importance of advertising and making sure that Government
programmes are understand and to assist you in servicing your
own people. Again, I will have a look at future plans for
advertising in that area. We have made considerable strides in
recent times in quite directly increasing the sums available
for advertising in ethnic media. That p olicy will be continued.
The question of competition between ethnic press and ethnic radio
isn't one that I had put to me before. I can see that it has
its sensititivies and maybe has its difficulties. I think there
was a need, is a need, to encourage ethnic radio and later
ethnic television. I can understand your concerns in relation
to that and let me say I will talk to both Tony Staley and
Michael MacKellar on that particular point.
Question: (" Unification" Russian)
Diplomatic and non-diplomatic staff , representatives from the
Soviet Union are travelling freely in Australia, completely
without any ( inaudible). They are visiting centres like
Geelong, in Victoria, Newcastle in NSW and other places, and
they are communicating constantly with ( inaudible) of the Soviet..
in Australia. My question is, do our Australian representatives,
diplomatic, trade, etc., have the same degree of freedom of
movement and communication in the USSR and if not, why not?
Second question is: Soviet publications of all sorts, and films,
are distributed in Australia at very low prices. In fact, it
would amount to the dumping of Soviet publication on the
Australian market and this is done also without any restrictions
whatsoever. The question is; do our Australian publishing and
film companies have the same unrestricted access to the market
in the USSR and if not, why not? Would you not sir agree,
that if the answers to the above questions are in the negative,
that this situation is in direct contravention of the Helsinki
Agreement to which our Government, you sir, are in direct support.
The third questions concerns the defence and I am referring to
the recent statement of the President of RSL in NSW, ( inaudible),
who expressed concern for the safety of this country, which is
certain when the Soviet ( inaudible) military agression and
revolution. They also called-* on your Government to increase
defence spending and look into the possibility of creating an
Australian nuclear deterrent force. Do you agree with Sir Colin's
assessment of the situation and if yes, what practical steps
may be taken by the Government in this direction?
Prime Minister:
No, our diplomats and officials don't move as freely around the
Soviet Union, by any means, as theirs do around Australia and
our publications don't get free issue in the Soviet Union as
theirs do in Australia. The-reason for both these things
I think is a very simple one. Australia is a free and it is an
open society and we believe that that is one of our great
strengths. The Soviet Union is not a free society. It is
not an open society. To that extent it is a fearful society.
We are not going to change Soviet leaders in*-these particular
matters overnight. With their present philosophy, maybe not at
all. But because they do that I don't think is any reason for
Australia to move away from its principles of freedom. We know
what Soviet officials are, we know what they can do. We know
the contacts they try to make. But at the same time I have
a great confidence in all Australians, wherever they come from
and how ever long they have been here, that they will be able to
judge matters in their own-right. I-f-we sought to inhibit the
movement of Soviet officials, or prevent the publication of
Soviet magazines and whatever in Australia, I think we would only
be exhibiting a fear and a concern of their influence which
would be totally unjustified. As a free people, in these issues,
it is not we who have something to fear, it is the Soviet Union
in a sense. It is in defiance of the Helsinki Accords. I don't
know who ever thought the Helsinki Accords would ever be put
fully into effect. They are an ideal, but it indicates the kind
of exchange that seems very difficult to achieve in relation
to the Soviet, Communism, Eastern Bloc countries. I think we need
to live and hope for the day that it will come because it will be
6
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Prime Minister: ( continued)
a better world and hopefully a safer and more peaceful one
if there is wider communication amongst peoples.
I did see those statements about defence. I don't say I
entirely agree with them. We do spend significant sums on
defence each year and in spite of some of the recent publicity,
we are spending, each year in our budgets, we have been giving
a real increase in expenditure to the defence forces. In one of
our predecessor's years they spent something under 6 percent
of the defence vote on new capital equipment, for example. Now
we've that up to something approaching 15 percent. We think it
is not high enough but it is important that Australian forces
be as well equipped as possible with the best possible most
modern equipment. Therefore,, we want to increase further the
proportion of the defence vote spent on equipment. That does
mean, to maximise that objective, that we have had to squeeze
if you like, some current activities. The defence forces are
tremendous consumers in current terms, in terms of their activities.
A large military exercise is a very expensive thing to mount.
Some current activities have been made more restrained with the
objective of getting a larger total vote going into capital
equipment. I think that is a sensible course to take under
present, circumstances. I think you will also know that, because
I've said this publicly before, that quite recently I ordered a
new analysis of Australia's strategic position having in mind
the changes in Afghanistan, in Iran, in Indochina and having
in mind Soviet activities in the horn of Africa. We have also
taken decisions which will involve the defence vote growing at
a slightly faster rate than was envisaged at the time of the
last Budget. We are conscious of these concerns. I don't believe
Australia opting for a nuclear option would really make
Australia safer, not at the present time. In that area we need
to understand the major international objectives of non-proliferatio;.
If more and more countries come to possess nuclear weapons the
chances of somebody unfortunately or irrationally or unreasonably
putting their hands on a nuclear trigger at the wrong time would
be increased. I am not in favour of that. We have our alliances,
as you know. Wle have confidence in those alliances and we
work in close and harmonious relationship with our near neighbours
in Southeast Asia and not only with the United States across
the Pacific,, but with Japan and China. All in all, I think the
direction of Australia's foreign and defence policy is a
sensible one and a constructive one. I recognisethe concerns
that you express and anyone would need to when you have one
of the major superpowers spenlding 12 percent of its gross
national product on defence purposes year after year after year.
That is a cause for concern.
Question: ( inaudible)
Prime Minister:
No, 14 percent of its gross national product, or 12% to 14%.
That's about as much as Germany was in 1938 so in a sense that
puts it into perspective. We are not the only country to express
concern. I did first on behalf of the Government in June 1976
but the concerns I then expressed have been repeated many times
by the Liberal, Conservative, or Socialist countries of 7
7-
Prime Minister ( continued)
Western Europe -the NATO countries. They have expressed
the same concerns at the Soviet military build-up which would
seem to be out of all proportion to the self-defence needs
of the Soviet Union.
Question: ( Ethnic Newsweek)
I don't know whether we are member of the ethnic press or
the foreign language press. Our magazine is an English
language magazine but it specialises in ethnic affairs. Since
the invitation is for ethnic press, we decided to come.
My question relates to the area of participation. In the
Calbally Report it is very strongly recommended that ethnic,
or people of ethnic origin, basicallybe given the opportunity
to serve in the areas of ethnic affairs. Would the Government
consider seriously, in the future, that participation is of
so much importance to this nation that the areas of ethnic affairs,
and for that matter other areas, that migrants, people of
non-English speaking backgrounds, be considered in the policy
making a'reas. whether it be Government, or semi-Government
institution and so on.
Prime Minister:
I think we already seek to do this and if there are deficiencies
in the present procedures I would certainly like to have your
views about-that. The Galbally Report itself was a result of
very extensive communication, consultation, with ethnic communities.
The fact that the Report was born out of that consultation
and that is has been accepted by Government, I think has been
widely welcomed by those communities and indeed where one or
two programmes under the Galbally general programme are not
quite up to scratch the original timetable its as much
as anything because of the nature and extent of consultation
that its been necessary, not only with ethnic communities but
also sometimes with State Governments and with other groups who
are involved in the delivery of services. Continuing consultation
is a very important part of that programme. There are ethnic
community councils being established in the States and in other
areas the Northern Territory and right around Australia. There
is the National Ethnic Broadcasting Advisory Committee NEBAC
and State ethnic broadcasting advisory committees.
What we are seeking to do is to establish a wide network of
communication and consultation and that will be a continuing
policy. If there are particular areas where you think there has
been not adequate communication, not necessarily but afterwards
or whatever you like, I would like to hear that. I recently
announced that the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs
is going to be assisted in terms of general communication by
members of Parliament coming from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane,
and whatever, and their purpose is a very direct liaison one
between the Minister and ethnic communities and most of the
members of existing consultative bodies ethnic advisory
councils and the other bodies I mentioned; are people themselves
who have ethnic backgrounds. The Migrant Settlement Councils
in the State and the Settlement Committees at hostels will help
communication again, at that level. Again, on those bodies,
our purpose is to have as many people as possible with ethnic
backgrounds and two-way flow of information is very essential. / 8
8-
Prime Minister: ( continued)
If there are areas where the network of communication is
proving to be inadequate, I would certainly like to hear
about it and I am sure the Minister would.
Question: I will, if you don't mind, later on send you a letter,
because my question would be much longer than that,. to
draw your attention to probably some of the areas I mentioned.
Prime Minister:
I would welcome that very much and this is one of the purposes
of this kind of press conference, so that if you think there
are deficiencies in communication or in the nature of programmes
I can understand what you feel about it.
Question: I was mainly interested in the policy-making area of
Government appointments in areas which relate to ethnic
affairs and ethnic services.
Prime Minister:
Within the Public Service itself?
Question: Within the Public Service itself.
Prime Minister:
I would certainly support that objective.
Question:
Within the Public Service and without.
Prime Minister:
I would certainly support that objective and I would like to
see more people with an ethnic background breaking through into
higher reaches of the Public Service. I have not the slightest
doubt about that. This is something that I can bring to the
attention of the Chairman of the Public Service Board. I think
you know in our system, I wouldn't want to change it in this
context, the Public Service makes its own appointments and
they are subject to appeal and all the safeguards. I don't
believe in a system that would lead to politically-based
appointments and therefore the Government doesn't say that
a particular person must be in a Public Service position.
The general objective of trying to get more people with an
ethnic background involved in the ( inaudible) of the Public
Service I think is a very good objective and one that I would
want to see implemented. / 9
9-
Question: ( Polish News)
I have just recently come back from living in England for
two years, or just under two years, and its a slightly
different ethnic problem in the sense that the Australians
in England. There are two newspapers there, there London-Australian
Magazine and the Australasian Express, which is often the
only means of ( inaud.) news of what is happening in Australia.
I was in the lucky position that I got information from Australia
so I could get ( inaudible) but the journals are extremely
biased and coloured in reporting the news and what is happening
and what is the purpose of various Government policies ( inaud)
restrictions and so on. It is not only read by Australians
in London but it is read by a great majority of English people.
There is such an influx of tourists. These magazines are given
out free so obviously they are going to pick these journals
up. They are picked up by Germans, they are picked up by
the French and so on. This is a very important way of communicating
matters and if people get it in a biased way, and one example
I can give is that if I may so, there was a picture of yourself
and it said ' What has Fraser done for Australia r turn to
Page 16'. And you turn to page 16-and there is a blank column.
It got me mad. Is there anything one can do or can something
can happen. I am sure you get communications from Australia ( inaud).
Prime Minister:
I think getting adequate news of Australia overseas is a very
real problem. I think the reporting, not only in those two
journals, but also in the British press generally of Australia is
minimal and is often biased. When you look at the byline and
find out who wrote the bit, you generally find somebody in
Australia who you wouldn't ( inaudible) might have written it.
I don't know what you do about those two journals. I would like
to know who sponsors them and funds them. It would be interesting
to find out I think.
Question: Is the Australian Government considering the relocation of
the present Australian Embassy in Beruit, to Damascus, Syria.
If so, have they given strong consideration to the inconvenience
and hardship that this may cause some 140,000 Lebanese people,
of Lebanese origin in Australia and their first and second
generation families considering that the Syrian population
is only ( inaudible).
Prime Minister:
We are very much concerned with the problems that have been
present in Lebanon and the difficulties that has caused and
the concern that that has caused for many thousands of Lebanese
who are living in Australia; concerns not only for their
relatives and families but concern also for their friends in
Lebanon. The circumstances haven't always been very easy in
maintaining Australia's own embassies and offices opened as
you know, and there have been troubles in the past. I am not
aware of any present move or decision to alter the location.
I will make some inquiries to see if at any other level that
has been suggested. I do know that there has been concern about
10
Prime Minister: ( continued)
the capacity of Australia's offices in Lebanon to be able
to carry on their job effectively and to be able to provide
the very kinds of services that you are talking about so that
there can be adequate liaison and adequate servicing of
people who have friends or relatives, or people who potentially
might want to come to Australia, to migrate. I am afraid you
will have to forgive me. I will see if I can get you any
more precise detail and let you know.
Question:
Would the Prime Minister give strong consideration to
consultations ( inaudible).
Prime Minister:
Yes, certainly. That can be done. During some of the
particular difficulties in Lebanon, both the Foreign Minister
and Michael MacKellar, on at least one occasion, myself I was
personally involved in direct communication with leaders
of the Lebanese community about their concerns. That will
certainly continue.
Question: / 11
11
Prime Minister:
If the plane lands I suspect it wouldn't be. The point you
put would seem to be reasonable and I will take that up
with Peter Nixon and get you a fuller reply in relation to it.
I think the question that you put recognises the point but
if the cheap fares are to be a reality and are to be maintained,
that does depend upon keeping the loadings in the aircraft
up. That's why we've had to reconstruct international air fares
policy, to get higher loadings so that we can at the same time
get cheaper fares. In the areas where agreements have already
been made the policy is working well. The fares have been cut
very greatly, as you know, between Britain, Germany and
Yugoslavia. Fares have been cut by a third and in some areas
by up to 50 percent. There are very substantial additional
bookings, in tens and tens, even up to a couple of hundred
thousand additional bookings as a result. We are in the process
of negotiating cheaper air fares with other countries. There
are negotiations proceeding at the moment with Greece, Italy,
France and the Netherlands. I think the negotiations with
Greece are fairly well advanced, maybe one or two problems still
to be overcome. We are conscious, in particular I think, of
the benefit that the lower air fares at certain times of the year
can be to members of ethnic communities in Australia, again, to
their friends or relatives in their country of origin. We will
be pressing on with the programme with as many countries as
possible. The particular point that you asked about a person
being allowed to get off if the plane is stopping at a certain
point, if they are prepared to pay the full fare right through
from the end point to end point, it is an interesting question
which I will follow up and again, I will write to you in a more
detailed way about the answer.
Question: we heard the story about some passengers being disallowed
to disembark * in Damascus and they had to go to Europe because
they bought cheap tickets
Prime Minister:
Let me follow that up and I will get a more detailed answer
for you.
Question: ( Turkish co-ordinator, Ethnic Radio)
The matter I would like to raise with you deals with radio ethnic
radio. We have a problem. The time that is given to us, for
all languages, starts from 6: 00 am until midnight and there is
no possible way to accomodate all languages to their satisfaction...
I know that the Government has made available money and the
frequency will be changed in July and we will have a higher, or
more powerful, transmittor. When that thing happens the
frequency will change. My suggestion, if you could consider this
matter, that the present frequency which will be left when the
new frequency will become available, could it be re-allocated
to ethnic radio hence giving better distribution of time... / 12
12
Prime Minister:
You want two ethnic radios two frequencies?
Question: Two frequencies. The same radio. It will not cost the
Government more than, at an educated guess, roughly around
$ 50,000 to $ 100,000 a year and I can assure you that it will
not cost you more than that.
Prime Minister:
Let me take that up with Mr. Staley also.
Question: The second matter I would like to raise with you deals
with a similar problem to the previous... . but not quite the
same, because Damascus is served by Qantas airlines. But no
city in Turkey is served by Qantas airlines, therefore the
Turkish traffic would have to go via another place and whilst
in the off-peak period somebody pays $ 566 to go to London,
at all times the minimum amount of money to be spent is $ 1,140,
which is two-thirds of the distance. I think that's a terrible
anomaly and the only reason-why Qantas will be coming to the
party is because Qantas doesn't fly through Turkey.
Prime Minister:
The cheaper air fares are only possible when you get a high
loading on an end point to end point so that the aircraft is
being used. We need to understand also that those cheaper
are only available for part of the year and then they rise
depending on how busy the season is. When you haven't got a
great deal of traffic to a particular location it is very difficult
to provide the same sort of service. This is one of the real
problems. Question: I have figures supplied by the Department of Transport which
justify an end to end traffic to Turkey...
Prime Minister:
77 passengers?
Question: Yes, an averagQ of 77.
Prime Minister:
Yes, but with a 747 they want about 400 don't they? / 13
13
Question: That's not for end to end, that's stopover, and that justifies
the international airlines
Prime Minister:
Let me take that up with Mr. Nixon. I will again advise you.
( TAPE TURNED)
Question: Community Relations, Mr. Grassby, might be about to seek
re-endorsement for his old Federal seat of Riverina.
Any reaction to that?
Prime Minister:
Not really, no. Did you expect one?
Question: ( Time of Lebanon)
I am President of the Australian-Lebanese National Liberal Party
in Australia and in New Zealand. I have a very problem.
The problem is my husband has... . because we have here a lot of
Australian and the family is here expect the one in
Lebanon. He has no home, no money and you know what is happening
now in Lebanon. He has come to Immigration ( inaudible)
Immigration does not give him any form
Prime Minister:
He wants a tourist visa, does he, to come...
Question: Tourist ( inaudible).
Prime Minister:
Can you give me the name and address of the person.
Question: Yes, I have a lot of names and addresses, and we have a problem
with these people, really.
Prime Minister:
I thoughtit was one person -it's several people?
Question: I will give you one my brother-in-law and we
we are all here. We have houses, we have the money, we
can look after him and his family. He has no house, he has no
work he is a sick I have a problem. I cannot bring him
from Lebanon.
14
Prime Minister:
You give me his name and address and I will look into that
for you.
Questioi: ( Australian Chinese Community Association Kip Fong)
Recently the Community has been asking these questions regarding
the ( inaudible) system on selecting migrants. A lot of people in
the community feel that it is rather an unfair sort of system
because the method of selection they have got to be fluent
in English and so on some of these people who came from a
country in which English was not taught, so therefore
would be minimising their chances of migrating to Australia although
they might be qualified in other fields. Some other aspects people
are looking at although the White Australia policy is supposed
to be abolished, but it seems to be to these people now that
the ( inaudible) system in some sort of a way is introducing this
policy again similar to the education test.
The other point the community also raises regarding family
reunions. Some people having their families back in China, for
instance, they try for those people to come over here and
the Australian Government's attitude is this: you go and get
a visa from China before we consider at this end. But over in
China, the other end,, they say right, you get approval from
Australia before we give you an exit visa. So this sort of a
is getting nowhere and also people are getting rather
frustrated about it.
Prime Minister:
The last point is in relation to people in China?
Question: Yes, in China.
Prime Minister:
And getting a visa from China before they get permission to
come to Australia?
Question: The Australian Government requires an exit visa from the
Chinese Government before they would consider the application in
Australia to entry permit. So the other says you show
the approval from the Australian Government before we give you
an exit permit. So how are we going to solve this...
Prime Minister:
Are you trying to say that you need approval from us before
they will give you an exit permit?
Question: I have seen those problems, yes.
15
Prime Minister:
Well let me look into that because if both Governments are
saying that somebody has got to move first.
Question: I have already raised that sort of a question with the
Ambassador of China.
Prime Minister;
Let me look into that and see, because quite plainly it won't
work if both Governments are saying somebody else has got to
move first. So let me look into that for you. NUMAS as you
know if a new system of assessment. On all the advice available
to us we were led to believe that it would be a fairer system
overall and a more just system. English ability has always been
given some weight in migrant selection and it continues to
be a factor,, but I am not aware that it is given a greater weight
than it has in the past. Fluency is not required, certainly.
English is the language spoken by most people here and to the
extent that one can speak English you are going to be able
they are going to able to settle in and beat problems there are
better. I am advised that there are some cases where the new
system doesn't seem to accurately reflect the acceptability of
people and there is discretion from senior officials in such
cases. In a sense, there are exemptions in certain areas; for
aged parents. Refugees don't have to reach the minimum
pass rate to be able to come to Australia, for example.
I think, quite plainly, it is a new system and wel are going to have
to-reassess it. But you've got to know or look at the source
of migrants to Australia in recent years to know that what was
called the White Australia Policy is totally and absolutely
dead and that's the way it is going to remain.
Question: The ethnic radio you might be aware they are using
very often materials supplied by various consulates, or
foreign affairs, the embassies, from behind the iron curtian.
They are used as material which is broadcast, through the
ethnic radio in various languages. That material, as you can
suspect, disguise or just direct propoganda materi~ al very
biased. How can we and what can be done to stop the
influence of foreign embassies or consulates to interfere
with the activities of the ethnic radios which are run by the
Government funds.
Prime Minister:
They are run by Government funds but not run by Government
because we believe that
Question: But using the funds / 16
16
Prime Minister:
They are using the funds, but it is not the Government that
determines the programmes. I think it would be a very bad thing
if it was a Government that determines the programmes.
To the extent that a particular community is not satisfied. with
the nature of the programmes in that community's language time,
I would have thought then, through consultation with those
responsible for ethnic radio, that they should try to seek
to influence that through your own ways. The special
broadcasting service has been created as an independent statutory
body to do a job. Wle don't want Government day-to-day decision
making. I could think of nothing worse, for example, and. the
Government have to resolve the very difficult question as to
which communities are to get which time and how much time. Now,
that's a matter that
Question: It is not a question of time.
Prime Minister:
I know it's not but I'm just giving-an example of how I think it
would be a bad thing is a Government was interferring and I
think it would be a bad thing if a Government was interferring
with the material that is used. from ethnic radio. I don't
know if any of you who are from ethnic radio want to help me
answer the question.
Question: ( Inaudible)... . ethnic radio.. . serves the purposes of the community
residing in Australia. It pays not attention to Governments..
no interest in relating any Government, or any consulate or
embassies'information. The concern we have within ethnic
radio is to serve the communities as they reside here. They are
not divided into programmes for nationalities. There is no
French programme because.. there is a French language programme,
or Arabic language programme the subdivision of cultures
this is the tradition and divisions within Australia as such.
There are instances... . where possibly some material being issued
by consulates or embassies, or cultural attaches may reach particular
broadcasters who think that it is valuable material and they may
decide... . to use it. I would suggest, from my experience..
this is certainly not a very frequent occurrance and would suggest
that any safeguards which are needed We agree with the principle.
We agree that we are not working for any country or any government
overseas. -Governments change-, may change, political, geographical
boundaries may change we are concerned with the cultural
definition of ethnic groups within Australia
so any safeguards they may wish to have are welcome, but fromn my
experience I can assure you that this is not 7-I have
Question: I am a member of NEBAK and this subject was brought before NEBAK
on several occasions but unfortunately there was not evidence as
to what was put on that was supplied by different type of governments,
and unfortunately this was not If there are evidences, I am
sure they will be taken care of. / 17
17
Prime Minister:
The statement of objectives and purposes which we had from the
back of room, is one that I would certainly support.
Question: The answer to all that lies in the system; the ethnic radios
and when we we know that militants they are the ones that
are active on a voluntary basis. What we call moderates ususally
are self and that is the whole crux of the problems. They are
either militants-or people who like to the answer is in the
wholesystem when
Question.: I am from the German newspaper and I must say that I am
28 years, nearly 29 years in Australia and I am sick and tired
always to be called ethnic and foreigner I think we should
sit together one day and work how can we do a good Australia
not to bludge this country we have so many bludgers here
already. $ 60 million for bludging the country who is listening
to the radio ( Inaudible)...
Do we need this. We came here to live in peace and we would like
to live in peace. If we could ask the community what the community
says about the Australian public, we spend Australian money not
our money it's all our money together because we have to pay
very high rates for people to get $ S0 or $ 60 to produce one hour,
plus all the comes together.
Prime Minister:
I think there are many people who have come here from many places
who only want to be known as Australians. But at the same time
I think Australia is made a richer place and a better place if
the cultural heritage that people bring with them when they come
to Australia can be preserved, enhanced, and mingles in and produces
something distinctively Australia. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Arguments from other lands ought to be left behind. We don't want
them in Australia.
Question: We did this for 28 years. We have our German clubs here, we have
our German Saturday school, as most of the countries have their own.
I am born in Rumania as a German in Rumania. we used to keep
our culture but we used to be very good Rumanian citizens. This is
what we can be Polish, German or anything in this country. You
have a lot of German people here of German descent people in
the country. They are good people but they don't come to the
country " please can we have something" because they are paying
their rates. / 18
18
Question: Could I ask you a question in relation to amnesty. There has
been a lot of comment in Australia, in various States, that an
amnesty can be considered, or should be considered for what
is called there are about 30,000 40,000 illegal migrants.
These people have come out here under different circumstances
and there is an argument for and against on the fact that by
giving them amnesty they can start a proper new life with the
possibility with more rewards in the nation's ( inaud)
it causes the problem of having to send them back. I'm sure
that the majority of migrants believe that an amnesty should be
considered. Would you be able to consider what are your comments
on that?
Prime Minister:
. Can certainly consider, but I think there are some real problems.
There was an amnesty shortly after we came into office and therefore
anyone who has come here or who was here then as an illegal
migrant could have come forward. Anyone who has come here since
could have come here, or sought to come, under the immigration
rules as they are. With unemployment as it has been in Australia,
migration intake has necessarily had to be restricted. We have tried
to do that in the fairest way possible, giving priority to family
reunions and other matters-to people who have particular skills
in short supply in Australia. For every, if you like, illegal
immigrant or somebody who comes here trying to jump around the
rules that have necessarily been established when you have a
limitation on the overall number, it means somebody who sticks with
the rules is not able to come. I think there are very real
difficulties and we have a second amnesty now, in two or three
years people will say, " oh, they will have a third", and this will
tend to encourage illegal immigration with people saying well,
we can come out to Australia and hide around for a year or two
until the next amnesty comes. It is not as simple as just having
an amnesty and then you get rid of the problem. I don't think
you do. It is a very difficult one in times when economic
circumstances cause us to have a limitation on the overall programme.
Question: Can I add a question. At the time when the amnesty was announced,
it was claimed that there were about 50," 000 illegal migrants
only 7,000 or 8,000 of them came forward and the others didn't.
Would it be possible to reconsider the same amnesty with the same
conditions, except with a different deadline?
Prime Minis-ter:
So that anyone who has come since wouldn't qualify?
Question:
No. ./ 19
19
Prime Minister:
Why would you think that people who didn't come forward then
would come forward again? They've already had one chance to
come forward.
Question: The reason why I am putting this is because of the fact
that I don't know what reasons they had... . but since these people
are here in our society and they have been here long enough, they
are in hiding and they are not taking anything more than what
have... . wouldn't it be more humane to give them another chance
to come forward. They would have qualified in 31 December 1975,
so could they, and only them, be given another chance?
It's not another amnesty it's..
Prime Minister:
In a sense it is. It's another amnesty because it is different
in time scale and if you did that people would say, why is this
a restricted amnesty for some illegal immigrants and not for
others. I think it, again, would be in difficulty. I don't rule
this approach out completely but I do say there are difficulties
and make the point that when you have a restriction on the total
number that you think you can take during a period of relatively
high unemployment, that breaches of the rules, or amnesties, can
pose very real problems. One of the things that we seek to do
in Australia is make sure the migration programme remains something
which the broad general community can and does support. If a
programme is too large at a time of high unemployment, it would
soon be something which became divisive within the Australian
community and then that would be bad. That would prejudice the
interests of those who have a continuing concern for migration
programmes and hopefully as economic circumstances improve, for
a larger programme. I hear what you are saying, I will discuss
it with Michael MacKellar but I don't want to unduly arouse
hopes because I think there are difficulties.
Question: Could I add one point to the last question.. why didn't they
come out at the time, why would they come out now? . there was
an enormous fear amongst these people that this was just an
excuse to bring them out of hiding and then ( inaudible).
You might say it was unjustified fear because the Government has
always been fair in treating them, but when people are in hiding
for a long time they tend to develop a number of
for this reason a great number of those who could have and would
have at the time come out, did not take the chance...
when it was seen afterwards, the result of the fact that those
( inaud) This is one of the reasons why it did happen at the
time and one of the reasons why it could...
Prime Minister:
I'm glad for the implied vote of confidence in our attitude to
Australians in relation to that.
20
Question: In the last years some publicity has been given to the so-called
rift between the Maltese Government and the Australian Government.
In this year, a mnember of Parliament, namely Mr. Allan Cadman,
visited Malta in an unofficial capacity. I believe he managedto
establish good contact with both sides of the Parliament in
Malta. Are there any plans for the Australian Government to help
Malta in its endeavour to become fully an independent nation,
regarding economy, etc.
Prime Minister:
I'm not quite sure what role Australia could play in that.
As I understand it one of the problems was because the Government
of Malta I think expected Australia to provide a good deal of
foreign aid to Malta. Now, foreign aid, as you know, has been
concentrated in other areas geographically closer to Australia,
and my Government didn't believe that supplying Malta with
substantial foreign aid was really a foreign policy objective of
the Government the resources are limited and the needs in a
number of countries closer to Australia was of more importance,
largely because they come from our own region or geographic area.
Now, as I understand it, this was at the basis of much of the
concern of the Government of Malta with Australia. So far as I
am concerned, the argument is all one way. I have no quarrel
with the Government of Malta at all.* For some reason they seem
to have had a quarrel with us. I'm not quite sure why.
Question: I understand, sir, that Malta was being opened to the Australian
Government, as far as concerned, to use it as a base for Australian
goods for the shipment to Europe. Say, for instance, establishing
factories in Malta, say, like exporting butter from here, going to
the Common Market
Prime Minister:
That that was our policy or their policy?
Question: No Malta's policy. One of the talks that we I'll let you
go on.
Prime Minister:
We would certainly be very attracted if Malta could help us
to get into markets in Europe.
Question: there ever any, ( inaud). ./ 21
21
Prime Minister:
I haven't heard of that but I will certainly follow
that point up.
Question: ( Croatian Weekly)
You mentioned earlier that your Government has increased
expenditure from $ 5,000 to nearly $ 1/ 4 million. I presume
you meant for the ethnic press. My question is, what criteria
is being used by the Government for its.., system, in
allocating advertisements to the various ethnic newspapers.
As the facts can prove that some of the newspapers get
quite a large amount, in number, of Government paid advertisements,
where the other newspapers ( inaud)
Prime Minister:
The only criteria I would be aware of is the relevance of
the programme being advertised or the substance being advertised
to the community served by the newspaper.
Question: ( Inaud).. . what is of interest to one community is just of
the same importance to the other part of the ethnic community
of Australia and therefore....
Prime Minister:
In some programmes, yes, but in other cases no. I mentioned
two centres being opened one at Liverpool and one at
Woollongong. Well, advertising the opening of those centres
is obviously only of relevance to the people in those communities
and to the newspapers servicing them. It wouldn't be much good
advertising in Melbourne about the Woollongong centre.
Question:* Yes, but in general terms not only in local newspapers
but in general terms of the ( inaudible) irrespective of
what ethnic background that particular newspaper might represent.
Prime Minister:
Most general policies would clearly be of concern to all
members of ethnic communities, I agree with that. I think there
would be some judgement on the numbers of people serviced by
particular papers also.
Question: ( inaudible) Vietnamese community here, being a new community
to Australia and we need a lot of information; news and so
on and instructions about people. The ( Inaud) has been established
to serve and because we are a new community and we are not...
we do not have enough funds to run it. . stops until we get
more money and we can run again. Already twice I have had the
opportunity to contact, to meet, Mr. MacKellar and I submitted
the matter to him. This is not my own idea but this idea has
been proved in America that such a mechanism is needed for
the newcomners to this country, especially the refugees. / 22
22
Question: ( continued)
Twice I submit to Mr. MacKeliar and so far we haven't got
any from his Department for this new I would like
to take this opportunity to ask you, the Prime Minister
especially, the consider the policy to set up some
information leaflets to us every month at least in
the... . of our settlement in Australia. If the Government is
not capable of doing so, we would appreciate it if you
give us some assistance financially, that you can donate
continuously, not like now few months we stop, a
few months we run again. ( Inaud) aware that we spent so
money on the Galbally Report and you paid so much and I believe
without the ethnic radio, without ethnic magazines or ethnic
radio the people cannot appreciate it. So I suggest policy
to help us in this matter, particularly on the information
and news
Prime Minister:
There is a great deal of infEormation available in the
Government service. A good deal of it is put together in a
form which is meant to be of service and help to the media.
I will make some enquiries to try and make sure that whatever
we do have available is sent to you so that you can use what
you want.
Question:
We ( inaud) every week the news from the ethnic affairs
department. They are all in English but our difficulty is
the money to buy paper, to buy ink, to run it..
Prime Minister:
You've approached Mr. MacKellar about that have you?
Question:
Twice. Prime Minister:
How long ago?
Question: It would be about eight months ago. I even gave to him a sample
of the newspaper in Amer~ ica ( inaudible) In America it is
published in two languages, English and Vietnamese. Somehow,
until today, we have heard nothing about it, and I believe
this Prime Minister:
Let me take that up with Mr. MacKellar and see what's
happened about it.
Question: ( Greek newspaper)
Thousands of people come to Australia, they have tourist visas. / 23
23
_ question:-( continued)
You know the last trouble two weeks ago in Melbourne, the
Greek people, the woman and girl married in Australia and
their children born here ( inaud).. and sent back.
I want to ask one question: if the people come here and
make ( inaud) come Greece to here but have tourist
visas -can stay here?...
Prime Minister:
If people break the rules in coming here and plainly so,
I think they especially when there is a limit to the total
number of migrants who can come to Australia in any one
year they really need to understand there is a very difficult
task in front of the Department if the rules are not applied
because if somebody comes here on a tourist visa, or a
visitor's visa, or if somebody comes here on a visa wanting
to marry one girl and ends up by marrying another I think
that's what happened in this case.--then that means somebody
who has applied through the normal channels for permanent
residence doesn't get here. Is that fair to them?
Question:
The mother and father are here they are Australian
citizens. Prime Minister:
I was talking about the parents and is it really fair to
bend the rules for people who have deliberately bent the
rules to get here and to try and stay here when there are
others who apply, and taking some time to apply or to get
into the country and do it in accordance with the rules.
Every time we make an exception we are virtually saying
somebody who wants to stick with the normal procedures and
stay with it, well " sorry, you can't come, because we broke
the rules for somebody else who themselves broke the rules".
I think that if the rules had not been applied you would
create a very considerable injustice for many other people.
This creates difficulties, but the lesson out of it all is
surely; look, we can understand there are rules, we can
understand that there have to be limitations because of
the number of people unemployed at the moment and therefore
we ought to do what we can to discourage people to come
here with the intent of breaking the immigration rules.
Personally I would much sooner have the economic circumstances
when we can say we love you all and want you all to come
and stay here. But we haven't got that and if we did do
that we would soon get total opposition from the trade union
movement to additional migrants coming here, because they
would say it is a threat to Australian jobs. We don't want
that. We want to maintain the circumstances so that as
the economy starts to pick up we are going to able to build
up and expand the migration programme again. When you get
people breaking the rules, as that young couple did with
the young baby, they are making it hard for other people,
they are making it hard who stay by the guidelines. They
are miaking it hard for the administration and I don't think
they serve their own commiunity well by really trying to put
pressure on the Government or the Minister to breach the
rules. I really don't. ./ 24
24
Question: But if the parents are here...
Prime Minister:
The parents?
Question: Yes. Prime Minister:
These two broke the rules. Quite plainly.
Question:
A thousand people break the rules every day coming to
Australia... . break the law?
Prime Minister:
Break the law? Well basically if they'break the law in
coming to Australia they don't stay here.
Question: can stay here. Thousands come.. from everywhere.
Prime Minister:
That's a refugee situation and I think the judgements in
a refugee situation are different. We've got a stated and
public policy in relation to refugees. You do exert different
standards, different rules, then. These are people who
are just put out in boats, expelled from Vietnam with nowhere
to go and there is an obligation on us and on other countries
to try and do something thcre about a very real human tragedy.
Question: The Government must thousands of complaints everywhere
( inaudible)
Prime Minister:
The rules are plain and in the case you've quoted, the couple
had broken the rules, very plainly. Some people say, I
don't make the charge, but some people say the rules were
broken deliberately. I -just don't think it's fair to people
who stick with the rules. If we didn't have a limit on the
migration programme these matters wouldn't be so important
but the rules are known and one the things that we are seeking
to do is to make sure that people who come here under
visitor's visas, or whatever else, know the rules before they
come and know that they don't get deceived by travel agents
in some other country, for example, and don't get given
wrong information which can lead them into difficult when
they get here. That sometimes happens also.
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