BEN FORDHAM:
Well the last time I spoke to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, we covered plenty of ground. We spoke about energy policy, about coal fired power, company tax, record debt. We spoke about jobs growth, we spoke about our growing population, we spoke about our response to Russia. And over coming months we'll be speaking to Malcolm Turnbull about all of those important issues and plenty more. We need to talk about cutting spending, we need to talk about our priorities when it comes to power, about income tax cuts. We've got lots of things to talk about and I'm sure he's got plenty of things to say. But today the story is about one thing and one thing only and that is Malcolm Turnbull himself.
We struck an agreement recently that he would come into the studio once a month on a date selected by the Prime Minister. And I must admit today was the last day I expected him to choose for a live studio interview, we’re live on Facebook at the moment as well and probably everywhere else. We've got the TV cameras in here and Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is in the studio.
Prime Minister good afternoon to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good afternoon Ben, it’s good to be with you.
BEN FORDHAM:
Why did you choose today of all days? I'm intrigued because I would have thought on the day that you’re notching up 30 Newspoll losses in a row, today would not necessarily be the day that you want to be in it at 2GB live on the air.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it’s always a good opportunity to be with you Ben. And you're, you know you're always so understanding and gentle and friendly.
BEN FORDHAM:
Is that right?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, yes.
BEN FORDHAM:
This was the perfect place you thought you’d want to be on a day like this.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah that's right. You’d come into the warm embrace here at 2GB.
BEN FORDHAM:
Now when I mentioned on Facebook this afternoon that you were coming in I said what would you ask the PM? I hate to tell you PM, the overriding response was when will you resign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Really? Well the answer is I'm not. I'm not and I'm going to go to the next election and win it.
And the message I have for you and for your listeners is that Bill Shorten poses a huge risk to their jobs, to their savings, to their future and that of their children. We shouldn't, you know the media and everyone in the political world can get very excited about polls and personalities. But the real choice and the real risk is about the next election. And the choice is between the government I lead and the would be government that Bill Shorten wants to lead.
And what I'm delivering is record jobs growth, the largest number of jobs created in any 12 month period in our nation's history. And 17 months of continuous jobs growth. So remember in 2016, I said ‘jobs and growth’. Well that’s what we’re delivering. Now that's not an accident. We've got the policies that back that, that support business but cut taxes. Bill Shorten wants to increase taxes by $200 billion, on pensioners, on self-funded retirees, on businesses big and small, on individuals, on property. He's got plenty of plans for getting his hand in your pockets. But not one plan that would create one job.
BEN FORDHAM:
You said on the day that you rolled Tony Abbott, ‘it is clear that people have made up their mind about Mr Abbott's leadership. It is clear that the people have made up their mind’. Why won't you accept that people might have just made up their mind about you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the public will have, the Australian people have the opportunity to make up their mind about what sort of country they want to have and what sort of government they want to have at the next election. And the choice is very stark, it's between higher taxes proposed by Shorten, lower taxes proposed by us or delivered by us. It's between hundreds of thousands of new jobs, 420 700 in the last year delivered by us. Or a threat to jobs and business, threatened by Shorten. So it's a very clear choice: do you want to have higher taxes, less investment, fewer jobs or do you want to have lower taxes, more investment and more jobs. And of course, can I just say with those more jobs, comes more government revenues, comes fewer people on welfare, comes more people paying tax, comes the ability to fund the two and a half billion dollars - for example of extra money we're putting into childcare as we’re announcing today. It’s new childcare arrangements come into operation on the second of July. So anyone listening with kids in child care or think they may want to use it, make sure you get onto the MyGov website and update your details – that’s very important.
But whether it's roads, whether it's rail, whether it's the Western Sydney airport, whether it's the NBN - you were talking to Mitch Fifield about, or whether it is indeed hospitals and schools.
BEN FORDHAM:
We will have plenty of time, Prime Minister to talk about all of those issues and all of those policies going forward.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s good, that’s what everyone is interested in by the way Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
But today I want you to address today, what is clearly the elephant in the room and that is the 30 consecutive newspolls loss.
PRIME MINISTER:
There are no elephants in this room Ben, just you and me.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well let’s focus.
PRIME MINISTER:
And you with your young, boyish figure and me just fresh from kayaking. Neither of us are elephants.
BEN FORDHAM:
Prime Minister let’s just focus. Thank you very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
No you’ve got to focus – you’re smiling.
BEN FORDHAM:
In that press conference, now you said ‘the one thing that is clear about our current situation is our trajectory, we've lost 30 Newspolls in a row’. You nominated the trajectory, Prime Minister, as the one thing that was clear. Yet the current trajectory shows the Labor party is likely to win the next election.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I’m not sure that it does.
BEN FORDHAM:
Why does the trajectory not matter now, when last time it was the one thing that was clear? Why does it not matter now but it mattered then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben of course, the you know the government of this country does matter and it's critically important that we don't have a Labor Government, led by Bill Shorten.
BEN FORDHAM:
I understand that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you know what-
BEN FORDHAM:
I think you’re avoiding – what I comfortably call the elephant in the room.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what is the elephant in the room?
BEN FORDHAM:
We’re talking about your regret, which you have expressed elsewhere.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
BEN FORDHAM:
But so far not in this interview.
PRIME MINISTER:
All right well-
BEN FORDHAM:
About what happened that day during the news conference – just let me finish – the trajectory shows, you’ve lost 30 Newspolls in a row to Labor, you've been able to still pin the fact that you are the preferred PM. But in September 2017 your preferred PM lead over Bill Shorten was huge. These days it's not. You are just 2 points ahead, so can you address how much emphasis you put on the Newspoll and the trajectory last time around, as opposed today when it doesn’t look flash.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I do regret referring to Newspoll when I made that speech - the focus of my speech was on what I promised to do, which was to deliver new economic leadership and restore traditional cabinet government and I've done both. On any view, I've done both.
And you know something, there was an election in 2016 which we won.
BEN FORDHAM:
Just.
PRIME MINISTER:
We won it Ben, we won it. That’s very important. We kept Labor out, we kept Bill Shorten’s high taxing, anti-business, anti-jobs party out of government. And we have delivered record jobs growth and that is critically important. And your listeners are much - I know you know them very well - but I'll tell you what, I reckon Australians are much more interested in their job, in how long it's taking to get home in the traffic, on whether they can afford childcare, on whether their kids are going to get a good education, whether the hospital's services will be up to scratch. They want to know what the government is doing for them and in particular, whether we're creating the environment that sees them and their children and their grandchildren have the opportunity to get a good job and we're doing that.
BEN FORDHAM:
Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull joining us live in the studio.
You also said during that press conference, PM that we need to restore traditional cabinet government. You've just repeated that now, you said ‘there must be an end to policy on the run and captain’s calls. Now you did announce policy on the run including that idea for the states to levy income tax.
PRIME MINISTER:
That went to cabinet.
BEN FORDHAM:
It went to Cabinet?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
BEN FORDHAM:
Before the announcement?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course.
BEN FORDHAM:
Okay you've made major decisions without going to cabinet-
PRIME MINISTER:
Really?
BEN FORDHAM:
Including at least one case where you consulted your wife instead of your colleagues, is that not the case when it came to-
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what one are you talking about?
BEN FORDHAM:
Well on the sex ban for ministers with staff?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh right, well that-
BEN FORDHAM:
And also the Royal Commission into the Don Dale Juvenile Detention Centre, Cabinet wasn't consulted on those issues before the announcement were they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I see you’re not sure about that are you?
BEN FORDHAM:
Well I’m not in Cabinet.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let’s deal with the issue about Minister’s conduct. The Ministerial Code of Conduct is a code written by the Prime Minister.
BEN FORDHAM:
So it doesn’t need to go to Cabinet?
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely not, no. But I consulted with my colleagues about that extensively. All of my senior colleagues and many people that were not in the leadership group. So I did consult on that.
PRIME MINISTER:
And as far as the Don Dale Royal Commission that was absolutely consulted with the Attorney General, with other senior colleagues and indeed with the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Nigel Scullion so-
BEN FORDHAM:
After you’d made the decision or before you’d made the decision?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no we made the decision together. So you see Ben, let me be very clear about this. I do a run a very traditional consultative cabinet government.
BEN FORDHAM:
Mr Abbott didn’t, is that the case? Because he’s denied that today, speaking to my colleague Ray Hadley.
PRIME MINISTER:
I've had enough to say, I had enough to say about the history of his government in September 2015. I'm focused now on the future. I'm happy to speak about my government.
BEN FORDHAM:
I'm holding up to the light that news conference today and I'm not just focusing on the Newspoll I'm focusing on other aspects of that. The other thing you said in that thing was about economic leadership, and you've spoken about jobs growth.
PRIME MINISTER:
How do you measure economic leadership, do you pay on results?
BEN FORDHAM:
One of those things would be our debt. And if you have a look at our debt figures I know I raised the gross national debt figures last time, you prefer to talk about net. So in 2015-16 our net debt was around $278 billion. Now it's $340 billion now this is a this is a key plank isn't it when you talk about economic leadership?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben you are absolutely right and getting that net debt down is critically important. We are going to bring the budget back into balance in 2020-21 and from that time on the net debt will start to decline because obviously we'll be banking surpluses.
So we are bringing, we have we've achieved since the last election despite having, you know, a minority in the Senate. We've been able to get $34 billion of savings through the parliament.
Remember, this is the parliament after the double dissolution election in 2016 where we had only 29 seats in the Senate and so many people said, particularly in the commentariat, that we would be in office but not in power. And yet, by being respectful, by listening to people, by consulting with people, by being constructive. We've been able to get so much through the Senate over 200 bills lots of savings, lots of big reforms, company tax cuts for small and medium Australian family businesses which are overwhelmingly family owned and Aussie owned.
So we've got so much through the Senate. Huge reforms in schools, huge reforms and childcare. This is a big deal. We've been able to deliver on so many of our undertakings, in fact most of our economic program that we promised at the end the election in 2016 has been passed through the Parliament.
BEN FORDHAM:
You've spoken about listening do you want to listen to a couple of callers this afternoon?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
BEN FORDHAM:
I think Wayne is on line nine there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Should I put these on?
BEN FORDHAM:
You'll need to put those on so we can have a listen. 131 873. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull with me in the studio. Wayne, you have the years of the Prime Minister right now. Go right ahead.
WAYNE:
Mr Turnbull you drew a line in the sand back in those days when you rolled Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott won 25 seats off the Labor Party. I'm a rusted on Liberal and you've taken the party, you nearly lost the unloseable election. I find you politically inept and basically you've taken the party, in my view, too far to the left and I think you should do the honourable thing, resign put it to a party vote because I quite frankly, we go to the election with you we are doomed as a party.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well thanks. Thanks Wayne for the advice. I don't propose to take it however. Just tell me how have I taken the party to the left?
WAYNE:
Well for a start you could get rid of the Paris Agreement.
PRIME MINISTER:
You mean the Paris Agreement that Tony Abbott agreed to sign is that the same one we're talking about? Is that the one because that's the one? That's the only Paris Agreement we've got into lately.
BEN FORDHAM:
The one that you ratified Mr Turnbull.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no it's the one. The Paris Agreement, Wayne, was one that the Abbott Government agreed to enter into and we agreed to cut our emissions over the period up to 2030 by 26 to 28 percent. And that was announced by Tony as PM and Julie Bishop as Foreign Minister and so that was a Abbott Government policy and commitment that I continued.
BEN FORDHAM:
Power seems to come up time and time again Prime Minister, whenever anyone's got a beef with you at the moment, I it on the e-mails and I likened it recently to some of the feedback coming into the NSW Government when it came to the stadium policy. It seems that no matter what people are talking about they all mention power, renewable energy and power prices.
Tony Abbott has suggested today to keep the Liddell Coal Fired Power Station open this could happen by compulsory acquisition. Is this something you would consider?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well nationalising the means of production has always been a policy of the left of politics, not the right.
BEN FORDHAM:
That's a no?
PRIME MINISTER:
That's a no. Absolutely.
The obligation of government, particularly of Liberal governments that believe in the free market and free enterprise, is to create an environment where the private sector can invest. And the National Energy Guarantee that has been designed by the Energy Security Board that Josh Frydenberg is taking to the COAG Energy Ministers meeting on the 20th of this month is one that will create the incentives for people to invest in all forms of energy. But it would put a priority on dispatchability.
That means power that you can use. When you hit the switch it comes on. And that of course will encourage investment in gas, in hydro, in coal but in every form of technology. We don't need to be setting one technology against another.
The critical thing is not to get in some sort of, you know, bogus ideological debate about coal or wind or solar. It's to focus on the outcome which is to have affordable and reliable power and of course to meet our emissions reduction obligations that we entered into.
BEN FORDHAM:
But is it a level playing field when you've got so many subsidies for those renewables? And they're having a look at -
PRIME MINISTER:
We're bringing them to an end. Again if you're talking about the Renewable Energy Target, I assume you're talking about the same one that under the Abbott Government was amended and re-legislated.
BEN FORDHAM:
You're talking about Tony Abbott a lot you, you're sounding like me now.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no well I'm just telling you, I mean I've been accused of taking the Liberal Party to the left by entering into the Paris Agreement, which was a decision of the Abbott government.
BEN FORDHAM:
The people don't seem to be satisfied right now with what you're doing on own power and part of that seems to be a perception that there's a feeling out there that you don't want to invest in the coal industry or we don't want to support the coal industry to the degree that we have in the past. Is that just perception is that misunderstanding?
PRIME MINISTER:
I thought the idea was to stop subsidising one form of energy over another.
BEN FORDHAM:
And you're doing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Exactly, the Renewable Energy Target will be completed in over the next 12 or 18 months and then it will phase out. We're not - what we're doing is ending subsidies for renewables, but we're certainly not going to end subsidies for renewables and then start subsidising and other form of power.
BEN FORDHAM:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean the idea is to have a level playing field, Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
So we haven't had one until now.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I mean renewables have had. Wind and solar, that's what we're really talking about for the most part, have had the benefit of subsidies, there is no doubt about that and I think the time has come, whatever the merits of those subsidies may have been in the past, the time has come for them to end and I am ending them.
BEN FORDHAM:
Just a point of reflection before we end this interview, under Tony Abbott the Coalition won 25 seats from Labor over two elections, you nod your head as I say that, this bloke had a track record of winning elections.
Now, if it is the case that Newspoll and the trajectory is not a fair way of judging all of these things based on where you find yourself today, is there a chance that this man Tony Abbott was cut down when in fact he could have gone on to win elections?
Do you ever think about the fact that -
PRIME MINISTER:
The leadership of the Liberal Party is in the gift of the party room. Right? And so the decision to change leaders whether it was made when I was Opposition Leader and Tony succeeded me or when he was PM and I succeeded him, it was taken by the party room. And the point I want to say, and I know of many of our supporters are listening today, is opinion polls have been a poor predictor of elections recently.
If the opinion polls were all right, Kristina Keneally would be Member for Bennelong and Nick Xenophon would be Premier of South Australia. So just bear that in mind.
Second point I'd say is that what the polls show is, if you want to pay close attention to them, is that right now the Government and the opposition are somewhere between even-stevens 50/50 or we are a few points behind.
Either way it is very close. The risk of a Shorten government is very real. The election is very winnable. It's all there to play for. And I will tell you Ben, that we will keep fighting right up to election day to ensure that we keep Australia the place of opportunity, the land of opportunity it is today with lower taxes, more investment, more jobs, better prospects for business and the ability to pay for all of those essential services whereas you've got the alternative of Shorten: higher taxes, less investment, anti-business, fewer jobs and then how will those essential services be paid for? By yet again another mountain of Labor debt.
BEN FORDHAM:
Two quick ones are the budgets less than a month away will we have some income tax cuts?
PRIME MINISTER:
I can't speculate on what's in the budget.
BEN FORDHAM:
You keep talking about lower taxes income taxes are part of that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Scott would be very disappointed if I revealed the budget particularly after the Roosters beat the Sharks.
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton says he wants to be Prime Minister one day are you worried?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ambition is a wonderful thing, particularly in one so young.
BEN FORDHAM:
We appreciate your time this afternoon.
[ENDS]