PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning John, great to be with you.
JOHN LAWS:
It’s good to see you, looking well and happy.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am happy, because I know that millions of Australian families are going to be paying less for their electricity thanks to the great commitments we’ve got from the big retailers.
JOHN LAWS:
[Laughter] All right. I tell you what –
PRIME MINISTER:
John, seriously! This is hundreds and hundreds of dollars for so many Australian households.
JOHN LAWS:
I know, I know.
PRIME MINISTER:
They’re already seeing the results of that.
JOHN LAWS:
But Malcolm, I can’t believe you didn’t even say: “How are you John?” Just straight into the sell.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well John I learned it from you, many years ago, many years ago - you were the master.
[Laughter]
JOHN LAWS:
Okay, now tell me about this good news.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, well many – millions – of Australians are paying more for their electricity than they need because they’re on the wrong plan. They’re either on the standard offer when many could get better deals available, or they’re on a deal and it’s expired and because they’ve been too busy they haven’t renewed it, or they’re just simply on the wrong deal.
Now recognising that and recognising that we need to ensure that Australians don’t pay any more than they need to, we got the retailers in three weeks ago, we got them in yesterday. What they’re going to do - and what they are doing, in fact - is they’re writing to people that are on plans that have expired and saying, “Do you realise you could have a better deal? And here’s a way to find out.” They’re also going to write to people – and there’s over one million households alone who are in this position – who are on what’s called the standing offer, which is like the basic rate card in effect. Invariably they will be paying too much for electricity.
Now there is a good way for your listeners to see if they can get a better deal. Many of them, perhaps most of them, will find out that they can. They can go to the website energymadeeasy.gov.au.
It’s the Australian Government website, put in a few details there and you’ll be amazed. Many people are getting savings of $300, $400, $500, $600 a year. You know, it’s 25 per cent off their bill, that’s a lot of money.
JOHN LAWS:
You bet it’s a lot of money. Well that’s a good thing.
PRIME MINISTER:
You see, John, sorry to interrupt, but the problem is that the best friend of the retailer is the complexity of the system and inertia. You know, you’re busy, you’re running around after the kids, you’re going to work, you’ve got a million things on your mind and you don’t actually pay attention to the detail on your electricity bill until it hits you and you say, “Good grief, I can’t afford it.”
So what this correspondence that we’re getting them to send out is – and getting them to make sure that they look after their customers – so in future, when a plan is coming to an end, they will get in touch and say, “John, the deal you’re on is expiring, time to renew it or enter into another one.
Otherwise you’ll end up paying a lot more for electricity.” So it’s basically jogging people’s attention to look after themselves.
JOHN LAWS:
Well that’s going to cost a lot of money to send out those reminders to people who should remind themselves?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, not really. I mean most of it goes out electronically nowadays. You know, my commitment is, as I said, to look after Australian families and ensure than none of them are paying any more than they need to for electricity.
JOHN LAWS:
Okay, onto a more serious issue and I believe it’s a very serious issue, North Korea.
PRIME MINISTER:
It sure is.
JOHN LAWS:
It is, isn’t it? This is not playing games.
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s the biggest threat to the peace and stability of our region by a very long way.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah, probably since World War 2?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, yes, certainly for many decades. Certainly, you’d have to go back to the Vietnam War era I suppose. But John, what we’ve got here is a criminal, reckless regime. A dreadful dictatorship...
JOHN LAWS:
Dreadful.
PRIME MINISTER:
...that starves its own people, that is using the threat of nuclear war to intimidate the rest of the world to basically give them money. It is just standover tactics. They’re actions, obviously, that we condemn utterly, their actions. But what we need to ensure is that all the nations, and in particular China, impose these new economic sanctions that the UN Security Council has mandated.
Now I want to be very clear about this; North Korea is not a puppet state of China…
JOHN LAWS:
No.
PRIME MINISTER:
...it’s not like East Germany was to the Soviet Union. But their dominant economic relationship is with China, overwhelmingly. So China has the greatest leverage and therefore the greatest responsibility. They have the unique ability to bring this regime to it’s senses without conflict.
You know, if Kim Jong-un attacks America as he threatens to do, then there would be a war and he would lose. As I’ve said, if he did that, if he carried out his threats against the United States, it would be a suicide note on his part. But this provocation, these threats have got to stop and China has got the greatest ability to do that.
JOHN LAWS:
Will Australia be called up to take up arms if they decide to strike Japan or China? I can’t see them doing it but if they...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if they attack, our treaty, we have a treaty alliance with the United States as you know...
JOHN LAWS:
Yep.
PRIME MINISTER:
...the ANZUS Treaty. So if the United States is attacked, we would come to America’s aid, just as if we were attacked, America would come to our aid. But again, look, do I think it is likely he will do that? No, I don’t think that it is likely that he will do that because the North Korean regime plays a calculated game of brinkmanship. What they have done is they have been able to use these standover tactics to extract economic advantages from the rest of the world. Now, that’s got to stop. So all of the nations have to be absolutely resolute and firm in putting the economic screws onto North Korea - this is particularly China, as I said - so that they know that their standover tactics are not working, are not going to be rewarded.
JOHN LAWS:
Are you in touch with China and Russia?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven’t spoken to leaders in either country this week, but I’ve discussed this issue with Chinese leaders and indeed with President Putin in the past. I’ve discussed it with Chinese leaders on many occasions, most recently at the G20 in Hamburg. China has by far the greatest leverage, John. The Chinese really are in the position where they can stop, well they are committed to stop buying coal and iron ore and seafood and other products from North Korea. They can go further. They could cut off their oil supply for example. So China really has to step up now. This is a nation of 20 million people, it is a brutal dictatorship, the population kept in complete subservience, many of them are barely fed, it’s the most shocking regime. The idea that this criminal regime can be threatening the stability of our region and the world is just completely unacceptable. As I say, we’re not suggesting that China is responsible for what North Korea is doing at all but they do have the greatest leverage and with the greatest leverage comes the greatest responsibility.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah, at the moment they’re apparently resisting any more sanctions from what I’m hearing. Is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
They have made a commitment to implement the latest round of sanctions which I just mentioned a moment ago.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that will start next week, China have said they’ll start doing that next week. We certainly look forward to them doing that. I think further economic sanctions will need to be imposed because the alternative is a shocking one. I mean a conflict on the Korean Peninsula...
JOHN LAWS:
Oh, God.
PRIME MINISTER:
...you’d see thousands, thousands dead and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. China has an enormous amount to lose from that. So they’ve got to step up now and bring this regime to it’s senses.
JOHN LAWS:
What do you think this fella is really trying to achieve? Is he trying to achieve world dominance, or what?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. No, he’s not. He’s like a gangster, John, I mean it’s like the mafia. He’s essentially a standover merchant, that’s how they’ve operated for years. They have made all these threats and they have extracted some benefits, pretended to step back for a bit and then they’ve gone forward again.
But look, you shouldn’t assume that he’s crazy. He’s reckless and dangerous but what he needs to see is that his conduct is not going to be rewarded and that there is a very heavy economic price to pay. That is the way to resolve this diplomatically. As Jim Mattis, the American Defence Secretary, said today, the diplomatic options and the economic options are always available, but what we need to do is ensure that those United Nations sanctions are imposed and if the regime doesn’t change it’s ways, further sanctions are imposed.
Ultimately it may be that where we need to get to is to have North Korea completely and utterly economically isolated. That will impose enormous hardship on North Korea, but it is better to resolve this without conflict.
JOHN LAWS:
If possible.
PRIME MINISTER:
If possible, yeah. There are no good options here, John. We’re dealing with a very tough and intractable situation that’s been developing over a long period of time and as I said, a very tough economic sanctions regime is the best chance of resolving it without conflict.
JOHN LAWS:
I hear people constantly dismissing this bloke as a raving lunatic. “Don’t worry about him, he’s mad.” Doesn’t that make it even more important that we worry about him? I think he is a raving lunatic.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, well I can’t speak to his state of mind but certainly the tactic of that regime over a long period of time has been essentially one of standover. He is using these threats to extract advantages.
His objective is to maintain his dictatorship, to maintain his regime. His concern, obviously, is that if he were to give up his nuclear capability he would cease to be the dictator and his family’s regime of North Korea would come to an end.
Well, that may be his motivation, but the fact is that the great powers that surround North Korea - and in particular China - have got the ability to put the economic squeeze on North Korea that will ensure, if it is done thoroughly, that the regime comes to its senses.
JOHN LAWS:
And do you believe that that could ever happen, that it could get to that stage?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, sure. If you cut off, if you cut off their means of income, if you cut off their access to energy, their regime would struggle to survive. I think that is what China needs to do.
I mean again, I just want to stress I’m not suggesting that North Korea is doing China’s bidding at all. But the brutal reality of the facts there is that China has the greatest leverage. I mean we have a sanctions regime in operation with North Korea but we don’t have very much, we’ve never had very much to do with North Korea.
You know China is their neighbour, they’ve got a huge border with North Korea, they’ve got North Korean workers, for example, working in China that send remittances back to North Korea. They could be sent back to North Korea.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
There’s a whole range of things that China has committed to do already and more things that it can do in the future that will bring the regime to its senses. The calculation that China has got to make is that it is in their interest, as much as everybody else’s, for the regime to come to its senses and stop this cycle of one provocation, one threat after another.
JOHN LAWS:
Yep. When you talk about Australian support if there’s a problem, what exactly is Australian support?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I was talking about the ANZUS treaty. Under the treaty we have a commitment to come to aid of the US if they are attacked in the Pacific, as they have a commitment to come to our aid. What that aid would involve, obviously, would be a matter of consultation at the time. But you know, that Alliance with the United States is the absolute bedrock of our national security.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah, very, very important.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is, that is the foundation. We have the closest, most intimate military, national security relationships with the United States. I mean it is a very, very close relationship. One, as you know, that was forged in blood in the Second World War.
We commemorated the battle of the Coral Sea, President Trump and I on the Intrepid in New York just a little while ago.
JOHN LAWS:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
That was one of the great, that was really the turning point in the Pacific War. That was a battle, a momentous naval battle, that was won by the United States Navy and the Royal Australian Navy working side by side. Then one engagement after another - the Battle of Milne Bay, Kokoda and right the way through the war - we saw Australians and Americans working side by side.
We have fought side by side with the United States in every major conflict since the First World War. Next year it’s a hundred years since Australians and Americans first went into battle together, led by an Australian general of course, Sir John Monash.
JOHN LAWS:
Yes, wonderful general too wasn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER:
He was. Montgomery described him as the “finest British General on the Western Front”.
JOHN LAWS:
He chose his words carefully, didn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what he meant was you know, the British Empire. We were all part of the British Empire in those days, I suppose. But he was an innovative general and he changed the way the war was waged. In doing so, turned the tide of war and did so while still - his troops suffering enormous casualties - but he actually reduced the casualties by reason of the way he used armored units, tanks and so forth. He was, look he was a military genius and our finest general.
JOHN LAWS:
Just quickly changing the subject, what do you think about Dick Smith’s immigration campaign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look Dick’s got a sort of ‘shut the door approach’ to immigration. The reality is, John, we decide who comes into Australia, right? We have secured our borders. The Australian people expect their Government to be in charge of the borders.
Well, the Labor Party as we know, completely lost control.
We’ve restored the integrity of our borders so we decide who comes here.
Our immigration program is run in the national interest. The immigration program is overwhelmingly skills-based. There were problems with the 457 program. We’ve abolished that.
We’ve introduced a new skilled migration program and immigrants come here on the basis that they are doing jobs for which Australians can’t be found to do. So they are filling skills gaps and that is very important to support our economy.
JOHN LAWS:
When you say that Australians can’t be found to do it, you mean Australians won’t do it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, employers are unable to get Australians to do the work.
JOHN LAWS:
They won’t do it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well - whether they won’t or they can’t - if you’re a business and you need people with particular skills to work in your business, if you don’t secure them you could go out of business and put at risk the jobs of a whole lot of Australians who work with you as well.
So the immigration program operates in our national interest, to support our economy. That’s the point that Dick, I think, overlooks.
You know you’ve got to recognise that in a global economy, it’s important to be able to bring people in with skills from overseas, it’s important for Aussies to go and work overseas. I mean as you know, there’s well over a million Australians working overseas at any time.
But at the same time we’ve got to make sure we put Australian jobs first. That’s what I did when we abolished the 457 program, which was getting rorted.
You know, when Bill Shorten was giving 457 visas, when he was the Minister, for people to come and work at McDonalds and Kentucky Fried.
JOHN LAWS:
Yeah, ridiculous.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was ridiculous. Yeah, so it’s meant to be a skilled migration program to deal with areas where there is a skills gap. That’s how we’re managing it, that’s how we’re policing it. But it is important, I mean Dick’s a very successful businessman and I respect him for his achievements, but on immigration it’s not as simplistic as he’s presenting it.
JOHN LAWS:
Okay, they want to take you away.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay. Well it’s great to be here.
JOHN LAWS:
They’re bigger than I am, so I think I’ll let them do the job.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay well thanks John, it’s good to be here.
JOHN LAWS:
It’s good to see you Malcolm and I hope we see each other very soon.
PRIME MINISTER:
We will, we will.
JOHN LAWS:
Thank you very much for your time and your information, and your expertise which is always welcome.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you sir.
JOHN LAWS:
Okay goodbye.
[ENDS]