BEN FORDHAM:
Prime Minister good afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good afternoon, Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
Thank you for taking the time to give us a call and say g’day. The Snowy Hydro Scheme 2.0. Not a lot of detail, how much is it going to cost? How are we going to pay for it, how long will it take to build?
PRIME MINISTER:
It’ll cost about $2 billion, it’ll take about four years to build. It’s a commercial project and it’ll be funded as any commercial project for a snowy hydro would be, by a combination of equity and debt. But the Chief Executive Paul Broad has described the project very well; it’s fully designed, it’s fully engineered. It was designed quite a few years ago, in fact the last time the designs were updated were in the early 1990’s. Geological work has got to be updated, obviously some of the technological aspects have got to be updated. But Paul Broad reckons that once that work is done – which can be down between now and the end of the year and that’s what we’re providing some support for – work will be able to commence next year, assuming the relevant environmental approvals are given.
BEN FORDHAM:
How effective is it going to be in plugging some of those energy gaps that we’ve got at the moment around the country?
PRIME MINISTER:
It’ll increase the capacity of Snowy Hydro by 50 per cent, so it’ll add a 2,000 megawatt power capacity, which will be pumped storage. So it would be able generate 175 hours of continuous generation at 2,000 megawatts, which is enough to power 500,000 homes. So that’s a lot of energy. The total Snowy Scheme itself is 4,100 megawatts. But this is a very, very big power station or power project.
BEN FORDHAM:
We know about your meeting with the gas bosses yesterday, we’ve been following what’s been happening in South Australia. Again today there was that clash between Josh Frydenberg and Jay Weatherill. What about nuclear? Why is nobody talking about nuclear energy, why aren’t we brave enough to head down that path?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well people often do talk about nuclear energy Ben. You know they had a Royal Commission into some of those issues in South Australia recently. But a nuclear power station, even assuming you could get the political consensus - and you would need to get a high degree of bipartisanship on it because it’s a project that would take many, many years to build, would obviously go over the lives of Governments from different parties – but even assuming you had all of that, it would take many, many years to build. It’s not something that could be done in four or five years, let alone two or three years. So I think it’s an important debate to have, but in the near term and in the medium term, storage is a very critical necessity. I’ve been taking the lead on this, I set out the importance of storage in my speech to the Press Club earlier in the year. This is the second project and obviously the biggest project. This would be one of the biggest pumped hydro storages in the world. It could be – in fact one of the points that we’ve made is that it could be scaled up to 4,000 megawatts – but we’re working on the 2,000 megawatt plan at the moment. But I think this is very exciting. As I said, the work has been done. This was designed, all of the civil engineering, the designs and so forth, the tunnels and machine hauls and so forth, were designed many years ago.
BEN FORDHAM:
I’ve got a few other things I want to throw your way. Housing affordability. Every time we talk about it on the open line the phones just go into meltdown. One of the things that’s been floated so many times, but I know there’s been some denials out there as well, whether you’re considering allowing some people to access their superannuation to buy property. Now, you met with John Alexander on Monday night. He’s asked his economic adviser Peter Hendy, well I think that’s you have asked your c adviser Peter Hendy – I don’t know whether it’s John Alexander who has asked the question. But is it true that a question has been asked that they need to look into this idea, despite previously saying it was a bad one?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not going to go into discussions with colleagues Ben. Obviously, John has got strong views on this matter and he puts them to me. He is a very accomplished and experienced Member of Parliament. He’s been a great sportsman, a great businessman. I listen to him and I pay a lot of attention to him, but I’m not going to go into speculation about what is, or will not be, or is being considered in the Budget.
BEN FORDHAM:
So despite saying previously that it was a bad idea, there have been questions asked of Peter Hendy about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben, I know you’re more interested in politics than policy. But what I’ve announced today is the single greatest -
BEN FORDHAM:
Well hang on a moment –
PRIME MINISTER:
Hang on, just let me, Ben –
BEN FORDHAM:
No hang on, when you say I’m more interested in politics than policy, I’m asking you about housing affordability policy and you started telling me that John Alexander was a good tennis player.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I said he was a very distinguished sportsman, and a very successful businessman.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well I was asking you about housing affordability policy which is a big concern to my listeners.
PRIME MINISTER:
Alright, well it’s –
BEN FORDHAM:
They want to know if this is a bad idea or if it’s an idea that’s on the table.
PRIME MINISTER:
What is –
BEN FORDHAM:
I don’t expect you to confirm or deny.
PRIME MINISTER:
What is the idea that you’re particularly referring to?
BEN FORDHAM:
Whether there is a plan being considered for people, some, to be able to access their superannuation to buy property.
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not going to confirm, or I’m not going to discuss particular issues that are in consideration for the Budget. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of submissions being made by many different people, including very experienced and very capable colleagues like John Alexander, who has a long interest in this issue. He’s a very capable guy, a great businessman.
BEN FORDHAM:
No worries. Great sportsman.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I said a great businessman.
BEN FORDHAM:
I know it’s on the table anyway. It’s on the table.
PRIME MINISTER:
No Ben, let’s just be quite clear. Everyone has got views on housing affordability. Let me tell you what the fundamental issue is. This is from my experience and I’ve paid a lot of attention to this issue over many years. The reason housing is not as affordable as it should be in Sydney in particular, is because we are not building enough dwellings. We’re not building enough houses and so forth. That’s because governments – local governments, state government s – have not provided the planning approvals, the zoning, to enable it to be done. So it’s basically a supply and demand problem. Now to their credit, the Liberal state government, Gladys Berejiklian’s government, Mike Baird’s before it, Barry O’Farrell’s have made a lot of progress in this area. But the supply – demand shortfall has taken a long time to catch up. That’s why, as part of our City Deals, we are working on agreements with state governments and city governments, to expand more housing supply. It’s very important.
BEN FORDHAM:
I’ve been saying on this show for a while and I don’t know whether you are across this and you could be forgiven for not being across it because it’s been gathering dust on various bureaucrats and Ministers desks for about 10 years. But there is legislation sitting there in Canberra in regards to anti-money laundering legislation. There has been a big bust today, a big case today involving Tabcorp. But there is a second factor there of that legislation that’s been gathering dust for nine years, now that involves real estate agents. So if you’ve got people coming in from overseas, I’m talking about illegal buyers from overseas, from China specifically and elsewhere, that real estate agents should have to declare where that money has come from just like they have to do at the moment in banks and casinos and bullion dealers. Do you think that’s worth doing something about considering it’s been sitting there on someone’s desk for nine years now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I haven’t seen the details of the particular case. I’ve been up in the Snowy Mountains today talking about the biggest change to energy supply in the east coast of Australia for many years. Really taking on this nation building project, the Snowy Mountain, that we’ve inherited from our grandparents and parents’ generations and carrying it forward.
Now that is what I have been focused on today so I haven’t caught up with the issue you referred to.
BEN FORDHAM:
No problem. I’ll throw a couple quick ones at you and then I’ll let you go. On Sunday penalty rates, businesses have been screaming for reform on this front for a long time. The Fair Work Commission delivered it. But for two weeks you seemed like you just did not want to touch it. Why was there a reluctance to make the case for reform on penalty rates?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that’s completely untrue Ben. I’ve defended it and argued the case going through in the Parliament, going through the many cases of small businesses whose ability to offer jobs and employment and opportunities would be increased by bringing Sunday penalty rates closer to Saturday rates.
BEN FORDHAM:
The Government was slow out of the blocks though on it wasn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don’t agree.
BEN FORDHAM:
Initially the argument was: ‘Oh well, it’s an independent umpire and that’s their decision’.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t agree. It is a decision of the independent umpire and that’s very important. It’s not a decision of the Government, it’s a decision of the independent umpire. It’s a decision -
BEN FORDHAM:
And you feel that you argued the case for reform strongly after that decision was made?
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely and if you let me finish, it’s a decision of the independent umpire who made a very careful consideration and concluded that by bringing Sunday penalty rates in retail and hospitality closer to Saturday rates, you would get many more jobs provided in those sectors.
That was the basis of their decision and that was an objective analysis by that independent umpire whose decision Bill Shorten pledged to support and accept. So he has gone back on his word.
He challenged us in the election, he said: ‘I challenge the Government to accept the decision of the independent umpire’. We’ve always said we would, it’s never been an issue. So he is the one that’s done the backflip. That’s the argument they’ve made and there is plenty of evidence in the report and I’ve cited many cases from that report of businesses - pubs and cafes and restaurants - who would be able to employ more people.
But you’ve got to remember a lot of the big businesses, you know, the Coles and Woolies and some of the larger hospitality chains, have got enterprise agreements with the unions, which have agreed on much lower Sunday rates than in fact even those the Fair Work Commission has proposed. Those deals were done by the unions, particularly by the Shop, Distributive and Allied Trades Union in the retail sector. So the unions are always to trade away penalty rates but they don’t like it when they’re not doing it. Because when they do it, there is something in it for the union. That’s the big difference. Bill Shorten was a master at trading away penalty rates and in some cases, the AWU actually got cash, got payments, from the employer.
BEN FORDHAM:
Just lastly and very briefly, Sally McManus the new boss of the ACTU says it’s okay to break the law if the law is unjust. Is that a dangerous line to be taking for a union boss?
PRIME MINISTER:
It is outrageous. It is outrageous and Bill Shorten should disown it immediately and she should apologise and retract it. I mean, we are a nation governed by the rule of law. All of our freedoms depend on the rule of law. What she is doing is basically saying – and this of course is the culture of the CFMEU who controls Labor now, and controls Bill Shorten in particular – what she’s saying is that you only have to obey the law when it suits you. If you are big and wealthy enough and you’ve got a baseball bat in one hand and you can threaten people like the CFMEU does, then you don’t have to worry about the law.
Well I’m sorry, they do. That’s why we put the Australian Building and Construction Commission back into action. That’s why I put the tough cop back on the beat in the construction sector and the CFMEU and the ACTU, they’re unhappy because they’re being brought to account and they’re being forced to obey the law. Well the rest of us have to obey the law and big militant unions are no exception. So we are making them obey the law.
BEN FORDHAM:
I know you’ve got another commitment about two minutes ago so I’ll let you go. I hope we can talk soon.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good on you Ben, thanks mate.
[ENDS]