BEN FORDHAM:
Prime Minister, good afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good afternoon Ben and first congratulations on the arrival of your new baby girl Pearl.
BEN FORDHAM:
You’re very kind. Geez, you’ve been doing, have you got an adviser giving you this information PM before you come on: “Hey he’s had a baby, you better mention the baby.”
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you know, we have a new baby granddaughter in our family so Daisy and James have had a baby girl recently, so we are very focused on new arrivals of new babies.
BEN FORDHAM:
You’re very aware of these things.
PRIME MINISTER:
But well done and I’m sure Freddy is getting on very well.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well you really have done your research – there you go. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on the line, let me ask you first of all about Paul Keating and Penny Wong – more importantly Penny Wong because Paul Keating is no longer in the game but Penny Wong certainly is. She says we need to rethink our alliance with the US.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well this is a case of Labor being hopelessly divided on national security. The left of the Labor Party which is where Penny Wong comes from has never been comfortable with the US Alliance. They want an excuse to move away from the United States. The truth is the Alliance with the United States is the absolutely central pillar of our security arrangements. I have just flown up today on the first flight taking off from Australia, from Avalon to Canberra in the new P-8A Poseidon, which is our new cutting edge surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft. We are acquiring 12 of those. It is part of the Defence White Paper. It will absolutely dominate the maritime approaches to Australia in terms of surveillance, our ability to conduct and manage anti-submarine warfare and also of course, as Peter Dutton pointed out who was there with me as well as Christopher Pyne, it enables us to ensure that we are able to see where the people smugglers are, what they are up to and be in a position to intercept them and send them back to where they came from.
BEN FORDHAM:
Alright, in a word, do we need to review -
PRIME MINISTER:
We couldn’t do that without our Alliance with the Americans. There is American technology there. It is part of a partnership. There is elements from Australia made in Australia. It is a big Australia-American partnership.
BEN FORDHAM:
In a word, do we need to review our relationship with the US?
PRIME MINISTER:
We need to and we will continue to strengthen and deepen it. Actually if you want some good wisdom from the Labor side of politics today, I noticed that Kim Beazley made the point and Kim of course is a former Defence Minister, a former ambassador to the US, a former Labor leader – Kim said far from pulling back we have got to engage and engage with the United States. That is exactly what we are doing. It is what Ambassador Hockey has been doing with the incoming administration. It is what I have done in speaking to President-elect Trump last week.
BEN FORDHAM:
Alright there are a few things I would like to get through and I know that you’re on a busy timetable as usual. So let me start off with the United States and the deal that you have put together with the US to take a lot of the refugees that Australia has on Nauru and Manus Island. Doesn’t this fly in the face of the argument that we’ve taken the sugar off the table and isn’t there a chance that people smugglers will exploit this deal and tell potential customers: “Hey, you can get to the USA via Australia.”
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is a risk that we have been very clear-eyed about and that is why we have made it very clear this is a one-off never to be repeated arrangement. Anyone who attempts to travel to Australia illegally in the future will be turned back, they will not be able to benefit from this arrangement with the United States.
BEN FORDHAM:
You can see them exploiting that though can’t you? To say: “Oh yeah sure, just this once. We’ll only do it this once.” Well if you are doing it this time you will probably end up doing it the next time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben, leadership requires making tough and difficult choices and what the people on Nauru and Manus were put there by the Labor Party. Let’s be quite clear about this. It was the failure of Labor’s policies. Labor neglected our border security. As a consequence of Labor’s mismanagement of our borders and they remain divided over this. I mean, Bill Shorten can say he’s on a unity ticket – he’s not on a unity ticket with me. He’s not on a unity ticket with the Coalition. His party is full of people who would abandon our border security and get the people smugglers back into business and he is not even prepared to support us in sending the most unequivocal message to the people smugglers which is you will never be able to bring people to settle or visit Australia. And that is the message we want to send. This is not because we are hard hearted, we are hard headed. You’ve got to keep the borders secure to then, to be able to find these resettlement options.
BEN FORDHAM:
How do you know that President Trump is going to honour a deal that President Obama put together that would see all of these people who are essentially rejected refugees from Australia, originally from the Middle-East? Is that something that Trump is going to say is his first order of business: “Sure, we’ll take them”? I don’t think so.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Ben everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have a very close and long history of co-operation with the United States on matters of this kind. And both our nations have, in that very trusted cooperation, been able to pursue our mutual and our respective objectives, both from a humanitarian and from a national security point of view.
BEN FORDHAM:
Alright. Today you announced a crackdown on 457 visas, people coming in on 457 visas and this follows concerns that Australians are missing out on jobs because employers are hiring overseas workers. So from Saturday 457 visa holders will only be allowed to stay in Australia for 60 days after their employment ends. It is down from 90 days. But it seems this is one of these things that you have followed Bill Shorten on because…
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well that is completely wrong Ben. Let me quite clear.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well, he did you beat you to the punch on it didn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, Bill Shorten is a hypocrite and an opportunist. What happened was, when Labor was in government they increased the time that 457, foreign workers who had lost their job, that they had come to Australia for, increased the time that they were allowed to find another job before having to go home from 28 to 90 days. Labor did that. Now what we have done is reduce that period from 90 back to 60. Those changes were gazetted, that’s made law – in other words on the 31st of October, and they will come in to effect as you said on the 19th of November. So that is just – we have tightened up the 457 regime in many ways since we came in to government. The fact is, and Bill Shorten doesn’t care about facts but I’ll give you a couple, Bill Shorten is the olympic champion on issuing 457 visas. When he was Employment Minister, there were – he issued 68,481 primary 457 visas and since then it’s declined by 34 per cent.
So the fact is he hit the record on the construction visas, on manufacturing visas – he was a champion, this is absolute hypocrisy and opportunism from Bill Shorten. If he’s concerned about, you know, protecting the sovereignty of Australia, why doesn’t he join with us in saying no to the people smugglers. He talks about foreign skilled workers coming in under 457’s, what we want to see is him putting real solidarity and support behind his claim that he is on a unity ticket with us on border protection. He is not.
BEN FORDHAM:
Let me move to Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. You say that it’s not a subject on everyone’s lips but that doesn’t make it right does it? Because you think about these three university kids from Queensland who’ve had their lives turned upside down for the last two or three years. It’s cost them a lot of money, reputational damage, all because of a, in the end, bogus discrimination complaint under Section 18C. So is it good enough for you to say oh well it’s not on everyone’s lips at the moment. It’s on theirs, they are Australians.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben I’m – look I recognise it is an important issue, it’s an important – any issue that affects free speech is important. The treatment of those students is indefensible, I agree. And I’ve referred the matter to the Human Rights Committee of the Parliament so that - because there are a range of views about this, there are some controversy about it which is fair enough, so that it can hear submissions and evidence from people on both sides of the argument with different solutions, different approaches. And build up some consensus, which I’m sure will happen for reform. So I’m not ignoring the issue, far from it, but -
BEN FORDHAM:
Has anyone reached out? Has anyone from the Government reached out to these kids to say hey, you guys have been to hell and back can we offer any support?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know that the Attorney-General, George Brandis’ been in touch with their legal representatives, they have been in touch with him. But I haven’t spoken to the students no.
BEN FORDHAM:
Gillian Triggs the boss of the Human Rights Commission, she presided over this case. She is also the person who misled the media and the public by saying that the Human Rights Commission had mediated between the students and the person who made the complaint when in fact the uni students didn’t even know about the complaint for almost 18 months or something. She’s also the same person who was caught out lying to the Senate about comments she made during a newspaper interview. Do you think she might have just fallen short of a few community expectations, Gillian Triggs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well she holds an independent statutory office Ben. She wasn’t appointed by me or indeed by the Coalition. Her term runs out in the middle of next year, it’s not productive for me to get into a slanging match with her. Obviously she’s got to defend and justify her own conduct – it’s not an appointment that I made, but there clearly will be a new President when her term expires after the middle of next year.
BEN FORDHAM:
So it will not be renewed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there will be a new President, that’s right. There will be a new President after her term expires in the middle of next year.
BEN FORDHAM:
Has someone formally told Gillian Triggs that her job won’t be renewed? Or is this you doing it now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ben again, people cannot expect to have their terms renewed in an office like this, you serve your term sometimes, if people want to have it renewed it might be renewed, but in this case there will be a new President of the Human Rights Commission when Professor Triggs’ term expires.
BEN FORDHAM:
I suppose we are all at risk and I include you and myself in that as well. We are all at risk of not being renewed by our employers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed. Politicians have triannual reviews, they’re called elections.
BEN FORDHAM:
We’re talking to Malcolm Turnbull, Prime Minister whose about to take off I think – where are you going to APEC or something like that tomorrow, is it APEC?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes that’s right, I’ll be going to Lima.
BEN FORDHAM:
I want to ask you about this, you said to Leigh Sales the other night “You know I would have thought after this election in the United States, people might focus less on the polls and less on the opinions of commentators on the ABC or other elite media outlets and focus instead on what people are actually saying.” Can I tell you Prime Minister what people are actually saying about you at the moment? Have you got a thick skin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure go, fire away Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
They’re saying you’re not doing a good enough job as PM. They’re saying that you are out of touch with the average Australian.
PRIME MINISTER:
Fair enough. Well I’m sure – you’re entitled to that view.
BEN FORDHAM:
No it’s not mine, I’m telling – I talk to hundreds of people every day because I sit here in the studio and we talk to people on the open line and I’m bombarded with that kind of feedback. I mean it may not be the easiest thing for you to hear, but I’m just interested in what you have to say about that, what you can do about that if anything?
PRIME MINISTER:
The important thing to do Ben is to focus on the needs of Australians, the needs of the people that you represent and that’s what I do. Every day I am focused on ensuring that we continue to deliver strong economic growth and better prospects for people to keep their job, to get a better job for the children and grandchildren to get good jobs and for people’s businesses to flourish.
We have maintained strong economic growth in Australia; we have done that, notwithstanding the decline in the mining construction boom so I appreciate feedback. I was talking to a whole range of people on the train today from Melbourne out to Geelong, and we discussed a whole range of issues, political issues and others. There is a…
BEN FORDHAM:
They may not be as likely to give you a report card to your face as they are though in a letters to the editor, the newspaper or on the talkback line and at the moment it seems to be toxic.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s how you assess it Ben, it is not for me – it’s your job to run the commentary on me and give me that feedback and my job is just to keep on, everyday working to do a better job as Prime Minister and I accept all criticism…
BEN FORDHAM:
Let me throw this one your way…
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just make this point?
BEN FORDHAM:
Sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
What you need and this is where interestingly I often get people in your position making comments like that and that’s fair enough, I take it on the chin, I’m happy to do that. But you really need- what is more interesting and more helpful is when people say: ‘This is what we think you should do’ you know ‘you should do this, you should change the tax rate here, or you should increase investment there or invest in that bridge or that road’. It is always - the important thing is to move from a sense of unhappiness to what are the measures that people are looking to do.
In terms of employment for example the critical thing is to ensure that you get that strong business confidence, strong investor confidence, consumer confidence and you continue to have businesses growing. You’ve got to have that economic growth. Let me give you an example, regional Australia, a lot of areas have done it very tough, because of the decline or the wind down of the mining construction boom. Mining isn’t going out of business, resources aren’t going out of business but obviously the construction boom peaked and then tapered off and that was always going to happen.
What has been driving jobs in regional Australia has been our big export trade deals. So what I’ve been able to do and my government has been able to do, and a lot of this was done of course when Tony was Prime Minister, it’s been part of the Coalition’s effort. What we have been able to do is deliver one big export trade deal after another, the most recent being Singapore. All of which promote growth and jobs and exports and investment in regional Australia, because so much of our agricultural exports, our tourism. Indeed you think of the Singaporean investment in central and north Queensland, is a good example of that.
So when you say - when people are concerned about their economic future and obviously everyone is, I can point to things that we have done, specific things we’ve done that are driving jobs and growth. Look at South Australia – had a tough time as the automobile industry has wound down there. But we’re making big investments in the defence industry there, the big naval shipbuilding plan is going to re-equip our navy. We need that and that’s driving some of the best jobs, advanced manufacturing jobs there in South Australia. So these are examples of the things the government is doing that is delivering real practical outcomes.
BEN FORDHAM:
Alright, well look it’s been a long time since we’ve had you on the radio programme – it’s been two years in fact have I sensed a bit of a shift in your approach? I mean I know you mentioned the elite media three times in that interview with Leigh Sales earlier in the week and I don’t know where we fall in all of that, I’ve got no idea what category we’re in. Whether we’re elite or mainstream, I’ve got no idea what we are but I’ve noticed you seem to be spreading yourself around a bit more, is that part of the strategy?
PRIME MINISTER:
You can characterise yourself as you wish I think.
BEN FORDHAM:
Okay, well good luck on the trip and thank you for coming on the programme.
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s good to talk to you Ben and we’ll talk again soon.
BEN FORDHAM:
Good on you. Malcolm Turnbull, thank you very much.
ENDS