PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly do relate to Australian voters, it’s my job to connect with the electorate. That’s my job as the leader. I understand that what Australians want to see from their Government is strong leadership, in particular strong economic growth. One of the big differences between Australia and the United States Neil is that we have strong economic growth, we’ve had consistent growth in real incomes. What you’ve seen in the United States over a long period of time is flat lining in real terms –not just nominal terms –flat lining of middle incomes. That is one of the primary sources of that primal scream of which you spoke.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Do you think you’re getting the message through to Australian voters? Do they understand? I’ve had call after call of people saying no, people saying no.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil we have to look at the facts. We have 3.3 per cent real GDP growth. We have –
NEIL MITCHELL:
What does that mean to the average person? What is GDP growth to the average person?
PRIME MINISTER:
What that means is that the economy is growing and when the economy is growing, that means more firms are hiring that firing. More businesses are starting than closing. More opportunities are arising and the chances for you, for your kids and your grandkids to get a job are improving. That’s why economic growth – look it’s the old story, it’s what Bill Clinton said all those years ago: “It’s the economy, stupid.” When I was talking to Donald Trump yesterday, we talked about, and he talked admiringly about, the strong economy growth in Australia. So he understands as a business man, and I guess we’re both businessmen that have found our way into politics later in life, we both understand that you have got to have strong growth because it’s business that will drive the jobs and growth in the future.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Do you accept that there this that disenchantment, there is that disillusionment, a feeling of being disenfranchised. Do you accept that some people, a lot of people are sensing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is always a lot of disillusionment…
NEIL MITCHELL:
I think it’s at new levels.
PRIME MINISTER:
You’ve got to be careful about generalising wildly, let’s be very clear, we don’t want to oversimplify things. There are parts of Australia where there has been a very significant decrease in employment. Obviously parts of regional Australia where you’ve had the downturn in the mining construction boom, have been clearly effected. Now for example, we know Donald Trump has run a policy platform that could be described as being more protectionist that has been traditional for a Republican Party candidate, much more protectionist. Having said that, from our point of view, remember my job is to defend Australia’s interest and Australia’s jobs, the one thing we know, particularly with the Australia-China Free Trade Agreement has been driving jobs and growth in regional Australia. One of the reasons that the impact of the mining construction boom downturn has not been as severe as many predicted, is because of that uptick in exports.
NEIL MITCHELL:
We’ve been talking about this disenchantment if you like for a while, I’d just like a reaction to former Prime Minister Tony Abbott on government Radio this morning.
TONY ABBOTT:
We have a problem, we have a problem. More and more people are feeling less and less represented by mainstream political parties.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Your reaction?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think the independent vote at the last election, the non-Labor, non-Liberal/National vote at the last election, was not markedly different, in fact if you look in Queensland where there was a strong vote for One Nation, it largely stepped into the space vacated by the Palmer United Party. So I think –
NEIL MITCHELL:
So you don’t think that disillusionment exists?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no no, what I’m saying to you is that there hasn’t been a huge increase in votes for, other than the two big parties. So that’s the first, that’s a factual point.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is there. It’s very real, it’s very, very important that we address. I think a key issue is one of providing security and steady Cabinet Government. Now you see my job as the Prime Minister is to run a steady, secure Cabinet Government. Now if you look at one of the big issues in the last election here, it was obviously health. The “Medi-Scare”, Labor’s campaign, was outrageous, it was dishonest, it was fraudulent in fact, in what they did and the way they set out to frighten older and vulnerable people. But the question for my party and for me and my Government, is why were people able to be frightened? The answer is that I think this stemmed from the 2014 budget and the co-payment. They felt that they’d been let down, it had come as a shock and what we have to do is rebuild the trust of the Australian people in our administration and our –
NEIL MITCHELL:
So you’re saying that the previous administration of yours lost the trust of the Australian people?
PRIME MINISTER:
No what I’m saying is –
NEIL MITCHELL:
You are in part, you’re talking about the 2014 budget.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I’ve talked about this before, we’ve got to be honest about it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So Tony Abbott lost the trust of the people?
PRIME MINISTER:
No Neil you do the commentary, I’ll do the facts.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well I’m trying to work out what you mean.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if you listen you’ll hear what I mean.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I will listen.
PRIME MINISTER:
The 2014 budget and the co-payment proposal came as a shock, it was very, very unpopular and it obviously had to be abandoned. But it was something that I believe – and I think it’s perfectly clear – it played into a narrative that the Coalition did not fully support public health. Now that is something, there’s no point kidding ourselves. We’ve got to own up to the vulnerability that was there and that was fertile ground in some sections of the community for Labor to get away with its lie. So I’m just being honest here, there’s no point in me trying to spin to you. Those are the facts, that’s what I’m grappling with and that’s what I’m addressing now.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So will you change style, in any way, in the wake of the US vote?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you’ve got to be true to yourself Neil, I am who I am. I’m a practical, pragmatic leader. I’m not an ideological leader. I’m determined to get the right outcomes the great opportunities for Australians. That clearly requires continued strong economic growth and the policies that will support it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So will you sell differently?
PRIME MINISTER:
[Laughs]
Well Neil I’m here talking to you, you be the judge on that. You run the commentary on me and others will no doubt do so too.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Fair enough, fair enough. Well on the Trump Presidency, we know you’ve spoken to him as you’ve said. A former senior defence bureaucrat and spy if you like, Paul Dibb says Australia could be an nuclear target under Trump. Bob Carr, former Labor Foreign Minister of course, agrees. Are we? Do you agree?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I’m not going to engage in that speculation. Let me tell you about –
NEIL MITCHELL:
But the world is nervous, the country in nervous.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is why my job is to reassure Australians and reassure them with facts. Now let me say this – one of the reasons Donald Trump was elected President was because despite all the criticism and all of the other issues, people looked at him and they said - he is a practical, experienced businessman, who has been successful, he knows how to get things done. He is, as he says, a deal-maker. He will do good things for America. People put their faith in his experience in large part because he was not ideological, in large part because he was not a professional politician. So -
NEIL MITCHELL:
But isn’t the world, the world must be a less secure, safe place now? Because of the uncertainty? Already he is contradicting things he did when he was in campaign mode if you like. We just don’t know where we’re going, do we?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m a great believer in firstly, the enduring national interests of the United States and of course Australia. They will, just as every administration for 40 or 50 years, has followed very similar policies in our region and the reason they have done so, is it’s in their enduring national interest to do so.
Now when I spoke to Mr Trump yesterday, he reaffirmed America’s commitment to providing the strength and the security, the engagement in our region that has been the foundation of the peace and the stability that has enabled the extraordinary growth and prosperity in our part of the world.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Former Prime Minister Paul Keating said last night Australia was a far better society than the United States. More fair, more even – he went through a list of things – and that we kowtowing too much to the US. Are we a better society? Are we too obsequious?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look we’re a different society. We certainly are a more equal society. The Americans have much greater income inequality than Australia. We have seen strong growth in real incomes, in middle incomes in Australia, whereas in America they have been flat lining. So we have had stronger economic growth, number one. Number two, our welfare system is means tested – not entirely but it is largely means tested – it is well targeted, by and large. America’s is not.
So one of the problems that the Americans have faced, is that in the recovery after the global financial crisis, it was described in some respects as a ‘jobless recovery’ and that even when jobs picked up, you weren’t getting the rise in incomes that you traditionally had. So Middle America can say they have been left behind. That income inequality is an issue in every society. I am not suggesting it is not an issue here, but it is much less apparent in Australia than it is in America.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Is it correct that you are close to a deal with the United States on the refugees, asylum seekers, Nauru and Manus island?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is always speculation about these things Neil and we never comment on them. I won’t begin today.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay. The Trans-Pacific Partnership is that finished? With the United States?
PRIME MINISTER:
We believe it is important, it would represent - and I made this point to the President-elect yesterday – it would represent an important strategic commitment by the United States to the region. But you’d have to say that the political landscape in the United States at the moment is not very promising for its ratification. But nonetheless my job as Prime Minister of Australia is to present what is in Australia’s best interests and I have put that case to the President-elect, just as I have to many congressman and senators over the last year.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Are you confident you can work with Donald Trump effectively?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I am, I am very confident. The conversation that I had with him was very warm, very practical. He is a guy who is 70 years of age, 70 years young you might say. He has spent his whole life in business. He has been a very successful businessman. He has been doing deals all his life. He is not an ideological character. People try to buttonhole him to say –
NEIL MITCHELL:
No but I mean you yourself have criticised the way he’s treated women when it came out during the campaign. Some of his policies wouldn’t be embraced in Australia, like banning Muslims migration. You must be uncomfortable about those sort of things when you‘re dealing with this man? He might be as warm as you like but he advocated grabbing women.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes and he was criticised for that including by me. He apologised for it and in fact disowned the remarks. But let me just be quite clear about this, I am the Prime Minister of Australia, my job is to defend Australia’s interests. I do not advance Australia’s interests by personally denigrating the leaders of other countries. Now some other, you know, Mr Shorten chose for purely domestic political advantage, to make very recently, some very scathing personal attacks.
NEIL MITCHELL:
He said he was barking mad.
PRIME MINISTER:
He went further than that. I’m not going to repeat them, but the point is whatever your private views are about the leader of another country, if you are the Prime Minister of Australia – or you want to be, like Mr Shorten – you have to have the self-control to keep those views to yourself. Because you’re not advancing Australia’s interests in any way by denigrating in personal terms, the leaders of other countries with whom you will inevitably have to deal.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Prime Minister Derryn, sorry Senator Derryn Hinch and his campaign to stop sex offenders travelling, Julie Bishop has announced this morning you’ll be cracking down on Aussie child sex tourists. How will it work and what’s the deal with Derryn?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Derryn Hinch, Senator Hinch – both of us have known him for a million years, so it’s hard to be too formal – yes, Senator Hinch has a deep interest in this matter and has raised it. I think it’s good that he has. As you know, we do already cancel passports of people that are suspected of travelling to other countries for the purpose of engaging in sexual offences with children. What we’re talking about are some of the worst grubs you can imagine so they’re a disgrace to Australia.
Julie and I and the Cabinet, we’ve discussed it, we’ve gone through this at the Cabinet. We believe that by further cooperation with the states and territories, once we identify those people who have been convicted of serious offences of this kind, then of course the Government; the Foreign Minister can revoke their passports. It’s very simple, we don’t want Australians travelling to South-East Asia for what is – for these sexual, criminal activities. These are grubs and our intent is clear Neil. The administrative management of it is what we’re working on and we’ll work on with the states.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So is there a trade-off for Derryn, what’s the deal?
PRIME MINISTER:
This is a policy initiative that is being dealt with as – on its own merits.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So there’s no deal, he doesn’t give something – he doesn’t support something in the Senate in return?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we’re always trying to persuade crossbenchers to support our measures. And they put matters to us but this is a very clear policy initiative which I think - I have to say to you and to your listeners, I think Derryn Hinch has done well to raise this matter. We already take action in this area and what Derryn has served to do as the Senator from Victoria is if you like, raise the profile of the issue and that’s good. We’re grateful to him for doing that because can I tell you – I reckon every single Australian is on a unity ticket of doing whatever we can and to stop grubs like this going to overseas and molesting other people’s children.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Two very quick things – do you still have confidence in Gillian Triggs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Gillian Triggs is the President of the Human Rights Commission. It’s not a question of confidence…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well she’s contradicting you, I mean…
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil you have got to understand, she is a statutory office holder. She’s not an appointee of mine. Her terms expires in the middle of next year. She is there – she has clearly been the subject of some criticism, but I don’t want to engage in a personal debate with her, full stop.
NEIL MITCHELL:
And Gay Marriage - marriage equality – is that finished now? Christopher Pyne seemed to leave the door open the other day, it isn’t finished. Now do you think it’s finished for the time being, for this Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we’ve got to let the dust settle as Christopher has said but the tragedy of all this that again, Labor for purely political purposes, for purely domestic political purposes, choose to block the plebiscite. If the plebiscite bill had been passed this week, we would’ve had a plebiscite on the 11th of February.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But is it finished? Is it over?
PRIME MINISTER:
It would’ve been passed and gay couples would’ve been able to get married so…
NEIL MITCHELL:
So is that it? Is it finished for the term of this Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have no plans to take any other measures on this issue. Our commitment was to take a plebiscite; we took a plebiscite to the election. We won the election; we passed it through the House. We proposed it to the Senate; thanks to the Labor Party it has been rejected. So there won’t be a plebiscite on the 11th of February and that is entirely Bill Shorten’s doing. He should hang his head in shame over that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
In fairness to Bill Shorten, his office is just in touch – this is my error. He said he didn’t say Donald Trump was barking mad he said “I think Donald Trump’s views are just barking mad on some issues”.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he also said he was unfit to be leader of the free world. Which perhaps in some respects was worse. But the fact is, he will be leader of the free world. He will be President of the United States and he will be so because the American people elected him and Mr Shorten, given that he wants to be Prime Minister should bear in mind, that we should respect America’s democracy and we should not be – leaders in Australia should not be making that sort of denigratory remarks about other leaders with whom you have to deal. Whatever you think Neil, whatever your personal views might be – it is not in our interests for a Prime Minister or a would-be Prime Minister to be personally attacking the leader of another country. Let alone the United States.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Prime Minister thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Great to be with you.