MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Firstly, let’s start with the asylum seeker bill, you are pushing ahead with this – why is it necessary to tighten this now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Michael, before we come to that, can I just pay tribute to the efforts of the firefighters in New South Wales.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
Who have been battling fires around Port Stephens and Cessnock. The situation currently is watch and wait but I want to urge everybody in those areas to follow precisely the directions of the emergency management authorities at all times.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Clearly could be a bad season, obviously?
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed, and again we owe so much to the courage, the professionalism and the dedication of the firefighters.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Okay. To the business ahead this week, you are pushing ahead with the asylum seeker bill, as I said. Why is it necessary to tighten this now?
PRIME MINISTER:
We need to send the clearest possible message to the people smugglers that if you seek to come to Australia by boat with a people smuggler, you will not be able to settle in Australia. This has to be a very clear message. We've believe it was a bipartisan message. This bill will serve to put that clearly into law.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But haven't the boats stopped?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the boats have stopped thanks to the Coalition Government, but complacency and this is exactly what Kevin Rudd did. I mean, the question you asked, if I may say so, is exactly the complacency that led Kevin Rudd to unpick John Howard's border protection policy and that resulted in 1,200 deaths at sea. Now, I just say to your listeners, Michael, there is no humanity, there is no compassion in doing anything that the people smugglers will exploit to get vulnerable people on boats, get them on the water, seek to test our resolve and we know that people will drown. Now, if you want people - if you want to maintain your borders, the integrity of your borders, you need to send the clearest and most unequivocal message - if you seek to come here by boat, you won't succeed.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
I guess my point is the message has been sent. In your terms, the boats have stopped, why do you need to make it even tougher?
PRIME MINISTER:
If I took that suggestion seriously, I would be heading down the same road of complacency and catastrophe that Kevin Rudd did. We are dealing with a very agile, very determined enemy in the people smugglers. These are very sophisticated criminals. They have at their disposal, all of the resources of social media that John Howard didn't have to face a decade or more ago. This is a much more challenging environment than ever, and that is why our message has to be absolutely unequivocal, and you see this tough border protection policy is the foundation that enables us to have the most successful multicultural society in the world, that allows us to bring in refugees from Syria and Iraq, and indeed to increase our humanitarian program.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Let's go to the politics of it, because clearly Labor, they haven't indicated whether they will support it or not. It seems clear that they don't like it. Bill Shorten has called it ludicrous and he does suggest and I think many would agree with him that banning somebody perhaps who in 40 years' time wants to come here as a tourist does seem a little bit over the top?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, this is a classic case of Bill Shorten pandering to the left of his party, that has always hated the Coalition, John Howard's border protection policy. They've always hated it. And the problem is that when - if you remember, in 2007, Kevin Rudd went to the election and said he would maintain Howard's policy and he would turn back the boats. He did precisely the opposite. Despite my objections, despite my pleas as Leader of the Opposition, he unpicked it and we know what we got, 50,000 unauthorised arrivals, 1,200 at least deaths at sea. Who on the left of the Labor Party is prepared to take responsibility for that? You know, if you unpick a policy that works, if you undermine a policy that works, and you, as an inevitable consequence of that, get tens of thousands unauthorised arrivals and more than a thousand deaths at sea, surely you must take responsibility and Labor must do that, and Shorten has got to stop trying to walk both sides of the street. He either stands up for strong border protection, stands up for the foundation of the most successful multicultural society in the world, stands up for the foundation of one of the most generous humanitarian programs in the world or not.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Okay. Others have said that it is a precursor to a deal on resettlement. If it's not a precursor to a deal on resettlement, how will you get the people out of Nauru and Manus?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they are going home, some of them. A number of them, some hundreds of them. About 700 have already –
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Still hundreds left, but?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are indeed, but they have gone home to the countries of origin, a number have been resettled in other countries and we continue to talk to them, but can I just deal with the 40-year issue, if I just may backtrack to that in a moment, Michael, under the legislation we are proposing, the minister has a discretion in the public interest to allow somebody to come in. So let's say in 40 years' time, I think Bill Shorten said, "What if somebody is a citizen of Canada and has won a Nobel Prize and wants to visit Australia?"
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Precisely.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no doubt the minister of the day will look at that case on its merits and grant the Nobel Prize winner a visa. See, the point is all of the rules and the provisions of the Migration Act, almost without exception, are subject to ministerial discretion, so we aren't seeking to legislate for the rule, Shorten is looking at a hypothetical exception. Now, I'm not saying that that can't occur, I'm not saying its beyond conceivable, but what I'm saying is you've got the flexibility in the legislation that we are proposing to enable that case to be dealt with, and the minister in 40 years' time will no doubt make a sensible decision in the public interest. So this is a furphy, this is just an excuse of his to pander to the left because his party is not committed. They've proved it once before and they are proving it again, they are not committed to the strong border protection policies that have stopped the boats, got 2,000 children out of detention, closed 17 detention centres and are the foundation for the most successful multicultural society in the world.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Let's move onto other issues. 18C - there is obviously a push to change from within your own ranks. You were publicly opposed to change before. You said in August you've had more pressing priorities. Have you changed your mind?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what we have in a strong public debate under way at the moment, and Senator Smith, as you know, Senator Dean Smith from Western Australia has suggested that the matter could be usefully considered by a parliamentary committee, the Human Rights Committee, a joint committee, and the Cabinet in the Government is considering that. I think there is considerable merit in that. Look, the reality is that -
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
So it has become a priority now, has it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, Michael, that's not what I'm saying.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
OK.
PRIME MINISTER:
There is and has been - and I have sympathy for this argument, and have expressed that in the past - there is a view that the test is - the bar that is set is too low. In other words in particular that prescribing conduct which insults and offends is too much a restriction on free speech. You're obviously trying to get the balance between ensuring that we maintain the courteous discourse and debate that again, mutual respect that underpins our strong multicultural society and on the other hand freedom of speech which is of critical importance in a democracy. I think the Human Rights Commission has done a great deal of harm to its credibility by bringing the case against the Queensland students. You know, the reality -
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Doesn't it show that 18C works, though? Because they ruled against the -
PRIME MINISTER:
What it shows is –
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Shows the law works?
PRIME MINISTER:
What is shows is that the Human Rights Commission must urgently review the way in which it manages these cases. To have a case like that which will have involved the expenditure of considerable Commonwealth money, taxpayers' money, considerable money on behalf of the students, imposed enormous stress on them, and have it chucked out, struck out as having no reasonable prospects of success, what the court was saying, what the judge was saying to the Human Rights Commission is, "You've been wasting the court's time. You've been wasting government money." Now, frankly, what the Human Rights Commission needs to do is reflect on whether, in making its decisions as to which cases to pursue and which cases not to pursue, it has been doing so in a manner that enhances the reputation both of the commission and respect for the Racial Discrimination Act.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Just to get back to the Act itself, is it about changing the wording then, because you and others continue to say that the ‘offend and insult’ are the two words - the Act says it is lawful to offend, insult, humiliate and intimidate, and if you remove ‘offend and insult’ will that change it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the most common suggestion for reform has been to remove ‘insult and offend.’ There have been proposals to remove ‘insult and offend’ and insert the word ‘vilify’ - some would say to remove the word ‘humiliate’ and insert ‘vilify’. These are the type of arguments or issues that are appropriately dealt with by a committee and let me make this point to you, Michael, it's very important that any change in this area has strong public support and consensus because we are dealing with matters of great sensitivity, and this is where frankly again, the Human Rights Commission has not done itself or its reputation, or the respect for the law as service by bringing that case which again - which most people found extraordinary, that a case would be brought against three students making comments on Facebook, and now it has been chucked out as having no reasonable prospect of success. The commission has got - the Human Rights Commission - it should meet and it should very soberly and carefully reflect on whether in their conduct of the administration of the Act they have actually been undermining respect for it, because that was a - this was not a case that was determined on the margin, it was not a close case, it was not a well-argued case that fell down on the balance of probabilities. This is a case where a judge has said: ‘You've got no prospect of success. Out you go.’
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But that's the legal process, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is very rare - you see, if you are a government and you've got the discretion to prosecute, you should do so with great care and with great deliberation, and you should be - you should exercise that discretion very thoughtfully and carefully and I think when a case is thrown out like this, it is a time for the Human Rights Commission to reflect on whether they have been managing the administration of the Act in a way that is likely to encourage support for its objects.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Nonetheless, you want to change the Act and so do - well, some in your Party have been advocating this very strongly.
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course they have been, yes.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
As have some on the crossbench. Is there also going to be a way of getting more support for some other legislation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Michael, you've only got to read the media, to look at the newspapers, to listen to the ABC and there is a lively debate going on about section 18C and whether it sets the bar too low, whether the Act is being appropriately administered. These are all issues that can quite properly - that's what parliamentary committees are for, quite properly be considered by a parliamentary committee and if the Government proceeds with that approach, then I would expect that people with different views would make their case and we'll see how the public debate and consensus reinvolves informed by the committee.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Along the way it might help you secure some vital crossbench votes for your ABCC Bill as well. Will you push ahead with that for a vote before the end of the year?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are absolutely committed to that passage of the ABCC Bill and Registered Organisations Bill. It is critically important that we restore the rule of law to the construction sector, it employs a million Australians. This is a critical economic reform. Obviously my goal is to see it passed. I went to the extent of proroguing Parliament and recalling it to ensure we had a double dissolution trigger for it so no one can doubt my commitment to it. My commitment is not to gesture politics, my commitment is to practical results.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
So you’ll put it in when you're confident you have the votes?
PRIME MINISTER:
Exactly, you see, that's right, that shows your keen political insight. The object of putting legislation into the Senate is to get it passed.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Are you hopeful you’ll get those numbers?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am hopeful, yes.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Can we talk about Tony Abbott, because the message from him seems clear as well. Last week, speaking through a column written by his friend Catherine McGregor he was making a case that he be brought back to Cabinet and this is what she said: “Abbott actually believes that the solidarity imposed upon him by the Cabinet is the best insurance against him being deemed a wrecker.” What did you think when you heard that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the reality is that I have an excellent Cabinet. I have a great Ministry. I have great Assistant Ministers. I have a very talented backbench as well. I've got more people of Cabinet material than I can fit into the Cabinet, which is a good problem to have as a Prime Minister, so I'm surrounded by lots of talent. I've got no plans to make any changes. When changes are made, when people retire or move on for whatever reason in the future, I will be seeking to bring up fresher, you know, new faces, younger members. My belief is that ministry’s need to be renewed, and you need to be bringing in new talent, and I've demonstrated that already. I have more women in my Cabinet than any previous Coalition Prime Minister. In fact I think than any previous Prime Minister with the exception of Mr Rudd's last Cabinet when he came back briefly. We've promoted younger people, we’ve promoted more women, and we will continue to do that.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
So it doesn't sound like you are going to be bringing him back to Cabinet then?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not going to speculate about any individual, but again, even as you prepare to move on to Four Corners, your keen political insight - your perspicacity is there for all to see.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
It does sound then you will have to accept him speaking out whenever he feels that he wants to?
PRIME MINISTER:
Everyone is entitled to free speech, we were talking about that earlier. We have a strong commitment to free speech in our nation, in our Party, in our Parliament.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Alright. All eyes, of course, are not going to be just on what's happening here, but they certainly will be on -
PRIME MINISTER:
That's the understatement of the day.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
On what is going on in the United States. Now Donald Trump, you've described his comments on women as loathsome. Bill Shorten has described his views generally as barking mad. You both say the alliance with the US is bigger than one man, but it will be difficult to work with him if he does become President, won’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I've managed to get through this incredibly long American election campaign without commenting on the competing candidates, and now less than 48 hours till it's over I'm not going to start speculating, but it is a very important campaign. It's been focused a lot on personalities and allegations flying back and forth, but there are huge issues that the next President, whoever he or she is will have to deal with. Commitment to free markets and free trade and open markets. We believe that the ratification by the US Congress of the Trans Pacific Partnership is of enormous importance, not simply as a trade deal, but as a statement of America's commitment to the rule of law and the rules-based international order in this part of the world. We believe it has got enormous strategic importance.
We also believe America's continued engagement around the world particularly in this part of the world is of enormous importance. So we look forward to working with the next American President and I'm sure we will do so constructively and effectively, but a strong America, an engaged America, an America committed to free trade, open markets, rule of law is absolutely critical for our future prosperity and security.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But again those concerns that you raise - free trade, engagement with the region - those are all things that Donald Trump in his rhetoric has basically signalled that he has a very different view on those things then perhaps you’d -
PRIME MINISTER:
You may very well say that but as I said, I haven’t commented for the whole of the campaign so I am not going to start now.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Ok but he is a man who holds Vladimir Putin up as a model of a good leader. He says the US should simply take oil from the Middle East. He publically complains about spending on defence of countries like South Korea and Japan and says they should invest in their own nuclear programs rather than rely on the US protection, that’s a move that would destabilise the security structure that’s guaranteed stability in East Asia for decades. All of that surely must put some strain on our alliance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let’s await the judgement of the American people. I am sure that they will choose their next President wisely and we will work with the next President.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Ok Malcolm Turnbull thank you very much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you very much.
[ENDS]