EMBARGOED: 8.30 p. m. SATURDAY 3rd January
AUSTRALIA L
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW GIVEN TO PETER COLLINS FROM SATURDAY WEEK
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COLLINS: To what extent has your life changed since you became Prime
Minister?
FRASER: I-think it is difficult to define because there has been a
fairly slow and steady change over a long period. As a
private member I used to be able. to spend-a lot more time
with my family but that was very nearly 10 years ago. As a
minister; and as Leader of the Opposition, it has meant more
and more time. away from Nareen and, also, unfortunately, more
and more time out of Wannon. Being Prime Minister just
exaggerates ail'bf that. This time of the year, I suppose,
more than any other time I am here'; It will be possible to
get to Nareen at weekends occasionally, but probably not very
often.'
COLLINS: FRASER: Do you try to seal yourself off here?
Well its nice to be able to seal yourself off it you can. I
think anyone who. leads a fairly busy life needs some way of
escaping. Fishing is one of the best ways, because there is
no media, no television, no telephones and no newspapers.
But a Prime Minister has to be accessible, and so we have
telephones, there has to be a teleprinter put in so that if
some sort of emergency arises a secure message can be got to
you at a moments notice. You can't really do the job properly
if you are out of contact for even 24 hours, and therefore the
job has to follow you. / 2
Az 1446
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COLLINS: What has Nareen meant to you over the years?
FRASER: Well it's my home. It's the family's home. I haven't spent
in recent years all that much time here but above all else
it's home for the family and also sometimes a refuge from
politics.
COLLINS: How do you think your' style of leadership is going to differ
from your predecessor?
FRASER: Well I don't think I'm the person to make a judgement about
his style of leadership but from my government's point of view
I think it is important to emphasise Cabinet responsibility,
the relationship of Cabinet to the Party Room and the process
of consultation with the States which has already started in a
way which I don't think occurred on previous occasions, a
relationship with the Public Service which I think is quite
different. I trust the Public Service.-I trust the Service's
integrity. Sometimes I might want ' a bit of prompting to
get outside additional advice and build that in to the advice that
the permanent head gives to a Minister, but generally if there
is a particular problem under consideration, especially if the
Minister is do that, and this can all be done
harmoniously and not in the compet-itive manner that seemed to
do so Jnuch damage to the Labor Government. I-think establishing
a fran~ ework that is predictable so that average men and women
in Australia can know what is going to happen and not be worried
about ' what the Government is going to do next is important.
COLLINS: Your ci-itics accuse you of being uninterested in areas likeaborigines,
the arts and the environment if you like, the
trendy areas. Is that so?,
FRASER: I don't think that is so. I don't think the facts really bear
it out, because I was a foundation member of the Conservation
Foundation long before it was a trendy or popular issue.
I can remember having discussions with Fr'ancis Ratcliffe in
his house in Canberra as to what ought to be done to try and
get Australia concerned with conservation and environmental
issues. This was long before there was any Conservation
FRASER: CONT. COLLINS: Foundation, long before you would find journalists writing much
about it in the newspapers, long before there was any real
public awareness of the importance of the issue. On other
issues, as Education Minister, again the record will show
my Department was concerned, and that I was concerned, about the
problems of education of aborigine children for example in the
Northern Territory. I don't think the record would justify
such a criticism.
Can I ask you a personal type question? How do you go about
setting goals. Do you set goals for yourself, and say I'm
going to achieve this by a certain time? ' 1
FRASER:-No I don't think so. The only goal you can really set yourself
is to-try and do whatever job you've got at the particular
time as well as you possibly can. Now there are many things
involved in being Prime Minister and many different facets
of government, many different policies, domestic and foreign
policies, economic policy, problems'concerned with creation
of opportunities, helping the disadvantaged. I don't think
you c Set yourself a positive goal, that you are going to
get to, a point by a certain time. It's just a question of
doing the job oaq well as you can.
COLLINS FRASER: Were there ever times, for instance around about 1970 when you
were gelegated to the back benches after the Gorton business,
when you wondered whether you'd just give up?
I dont think for long. Somehow or other I don't think it
would have been right to just give up. If you believe in things
and if other people for better or worse happen to believe in you,
you have obligations to them. You have obligations to your
own electorate. You have a certain view of the kind of
political party that you believe the Liberal Party was and is
or-ought to be. There was a great deal to work for.
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COLLINS: Looking back on the past election campaign and the events
leading up to it, to what extent were you able to plan things
out, to map out the alternatives available both to you and
to Mr Whitlam?
FRASER: I think fairly carefully. I think Mr Whitlammade a great
error. of judgement in assuming that under all circumstances
the Governor-General would have to accept the Prime Minister
of the days advice because, well, there's no need to revive
history but I have always believed that there were circumstances
in which there was an independent capacity on the part of the
Governor-General in Australia, on behalf of the Queen in the
United Kingdom. That proved to be correct. It was also
not conceivable that the stale-mate should be allowed to
continue throughout the summer months. It was never conceivable
that a half Senate election was really a solution to the
Constitutional difficulty that had arisen and that, if you like,
was another miscalculation of Mr Whitlam's. We also thought
that there was going to be difficulty until we actually got
intoian election. Once an election was on, I believed that
people would . focus on the economic issues, on the kind of
government they had had for three years and that they would
seriodsly ask'themselves whether they wanted that sort of
government for the next three years. So it could be thought
through, and was thought. through, fairly carefully. But you can
never guarantee things in politics. It depends upon the judgement
of a very large number of people.
COLLINS: FRASER: 1975 has been a very spectacular year for you. What do you
look forward to in 1976?
I think a more predictable-world for all Australians.
We want a situation Where people who have retired won't have
their savings destroyed. We want to establish a situation
where school leavers in the future are going to be able to
get jobs, where university stu6ents are going to be able to use
their skills. Now with what has been predicted and is still
predicted as a result of past policies for this summer, there
are going to be many people not in that situation, many
school leavers, many university students who won't get the
FRASER CONT. COLLIN sort of job they basically want or seek. We want to establish
a situation where people don't have to be worried about what
the government is going to do from one day or one week to the
next, where people know that the government is there to help
them and not to hinder them achieving their own personal or
family ambitions. We want to build a better Australia for
everyone. It is a land of opportunity. The government
has a significant part in achieving that. We can't make sure
the people take advantage of opportunity that might be
available, that is up to the individuals themselves. We can
do a great deal to see that the opportunities are there. We
have got to get confidence in industry and investment moving
forward, or there won't be the jobs, there won't be t-he
* opportunities and we won't have the wealth provided for the
sort of education we want for our children. We won't have
the wealth that is necessary to be able to look after those
who are disadvantaged in one way or another. I also want
to see in 1976 the first significant moves towards the most
far sighted changes in our Federalism system of government
that., have probzably been introduced since Federation itself.
S: You mean give back special powers to the States?
FRASER: Well giving financial indeperndence~ to the States in a realistic
orm a Jnd at the same time giving greater financial autonomy to
ocal~ government. Loc-al government used to look after roads_
and almost nothing but. They've had responsibility heaped on
them b5y State Governments, by Federai Govrnments and, still in
large, . measure, it is the rate payers who bear the significant
burden. -Now they need access to the general pool of taxation
and:-that's been part of our policy. We've got to move some
power, I believe away from Canberra. ' In a country that is as
diverse as Australia and in a country as well educated as
Australia basically is, we've got to see that more people
participate in the decision making processes. This means
making local government more independent. It certainly means
making state governments more indepeuident:. We don't want
people in Canberra monitoring both, and telling local government
and telling state governments what they must do and how they must
do it because we don't believe that these things should always
be done in Canberra. We believe that very often state governments 6 I
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FRASER: CONT. COLLINS: FRASER: and local government know best what is necessary for their own
particular area so this is, I would hope, going to be a start
on a new basis of co-operation between local government, the
states and the Federal Government and the first meeting in
relation to these matters we hope will be on the 4th and 5th of
February. The Premiers have certainly been asked to come to
a meeting and I hope the dates suit them.
Do you think that Australians then can look forward to a happier
or prosperous year in 1976?
Well I believe so but I have always said that it is going to be
hard and difficult to get out of the problems that haye been
caused by Labor. The deficit over two years is very nearly
$ 7,000. million. That has to be paid for, either by inflation
which is the process Labor was using, or by restraint on the
part of governments, or by increased production which brings
greater wealth and greater revenue consequently. We hope
and plan that it will be done. byorestraint, by getting
production moving again and the Commonwealth's revenue
increAsed.-real revenue, not through the process of inflation.
We will work dur way out of the deficit caused by Labor, but
it is not going to be easy. It is going to be difficult. The
hand-out mentality that Labor fostered so much has got to
becomea thing of the past. One of the things they tried to
suggesf was that the hand-out mentality was the same as doing things
for the disadvantaged but it is not. Doing things for the
disadvantaged is one thing-,-but the Labor-Party shuffled money
around; as though it were chaff. That is one of the reasons
we're in such a difficulty at the moment.