ABRAHAM:
… what’s it like being Prime Minister? You’ve positioned yourself for most of your adult life for this and then dragged down a sitting colleague, a sitting Prime Minister. What’s it like?
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn’t describe it as that but, well, it’s a great honour, it’s a great privilege, it’s very exciting. I am so pumped up. I think this is undoubtedly the best and most exciting time to be an Australian. The times we live in are just so energising and the opportunities are enormous. So I’m really excited and filled with confidence and optimism about the future of Australia and honoured to play a leading role in it.
ABRAHAM:
How would you describe what you did to Tony Abbott then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there was a leadership ballot. As John Howard always said, the Leader of the Liberal Party serves at the pleasure of the party room. That goes for me or Tony Abbott or John Howard or any other Leader of the Liberal Party. So that is … the fact.
ABRAHAM:
Oh yeah, it was a very calculated thing though was it not? I mean I think there was a brilliantly forensic piece in The Australian running to several thousand words detailing just how forensic it was. So it didn’t just happen. You worked very hard to bring Tony Abbott down by the time you got to that party room.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look there was a ballot. Can I just say to you I didn’t even finish reading the piece that you refer to in The Australian. I suspect only the political aficionados did. I’m a forward looking person. Yes we’ve had a change of leadership. Yes we’ve had a change of Prime Minister, and it is critical that we get on with the job. And I’m very committed to that.
BEVAN:
Was there ever a time when you thought I’m not going to be Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I’ll be very, very candid with you. After I lost the leadership in 2009, at one point I decided to retire from Parliament and then lots of people persuaded me to change my mind. And to be fair I knew I’d made a mistake the minute I made the decision. But I stayed in Parliament because I felt I could make a contribution as part of a team. I thought my chances of being leader again were as I said at the time somewhere between nil and negligible. So I was not hanging around in order to become leader of the party again, I can assure you of that. But politics is a very interesting and often very dynamic business.
ABRAHAM:
Well it’s an opportunistic business. You have to be ready, don’t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that’s true. I think it is important to be ready and you’ve got to be ready to take up responsibilities as they are presented to you.
ABRAHAM:
Now, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, I think on the flight over you’ve started, according to Tory Shepherd’s story this morning, warning people against Nick Xenophon. Why?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’ll certainly encourage every South Australian to vote for the Liberal candidate not for the Nick Xenophon candidate, and Nick is not running at the next election. So Nick will not be a candidate. I like Nick. I’ve known him for a long time, and we’ve got a lot of interests in common. And he’s a good guy in every respect. But the only point I made to Tory Shepherd, and it’s a very valid one, is that Nick will be running Nick Xenophon Team candidates; they are not robots, they are not clones of Nick Xenophon, they are individuals. And whether they actually in practice represent his values or work as a team with him remains to be seen. Nick ran with, when he was in the Legislative Council here in South Australia, he ran with a fellow candidate, a colleague, who subsequently split up with him. And of course we’ve seen the recent episode with Clive Palmer. Now Nick is not Clive Palmer, they’re two very different people in every regard. But the only point I’m making is that the Nick Xenophon candidate is not Nick Xenophon. Nick Xenophon is a very talented, idiosyncratic individual with a huge amount of charisma, but whether the people that run on his ticket will do as he says or work in tandem with him, who knows. His history so far..
BEVAN:
But Prime Minister, couldn’t you say the same thing about members of the Liberal Party? How well do you know Matt Williams?
PRIME MINISTER:
I know Matt Williams pretty well, but the history of the Liberal Party, the Liberal Party has been around for a very long time.
BEVAN:
Well Xenophon has been around for a long time. He’s very popular. People like him. And a lot of people would like to see more of him. They would like the idea of people getting into Parliament and doing what Nick Xenophon tells them to do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that may be right, you may very well be right and you’d have a much better handle on the mood than I would. But I just make the observation he has run with a running mate once before and it ended in tears. You know that. So you have a precedent where he ran in the Upper House with another candidate Ann Bressington, and she split up with him and went her own way.
ABRAHAM:
Well what about Cory Bernardi? He’s a Liberal Senator here in South Australia. I can’t imagine that you and Cory have much in common.
PRIME MINISTER:
We have plenty in common. We have plenty of points that we differ on.
BEVAN:
And that’s okay?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, Matt and Dave, look seriously, you know, we’ve got to be rational about this. Let’s just be very, very clear-headed about this. We’re not talking about, politics is not a game. It’s very serious. It’s about the future of the country. My only point is this; you can’t compare the Nick Xenophon Team to the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party has been around since 1944. Yes there are people that have been mavericks and there are people that have resigned, but overall it has had a history of considerable continuity and solidarity and continuity. Nick Xenophon, the Nick Xenophon Team, may in 60 years’ time morph into a great new political party. It may. But Nick’s track record to date is that when he last ran with a running mate she and he split up. The only point I’m making is that the Nick, the candidates, whether it’s Billy Bloggs or Susie Brown or whoever it is, the candidates on the Nick Xenophon ticket are not Nick Xenophon. And you’re essentially voting for what may turn out to be just another set of independents. That’s my only point, I’m not having a go at him.
ABRAHAM:
No, no, no, no … so you’re really, Prime Minister, this is Forrest Gump isn’t it? When it comes to Nick Xenophon, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get.
PRIME MINISTER:
You can say that.
ABRAHAM:
No, no, in terms of his candidates.
PRIME MINISTER:
…we’ve got to be very honest and fair dinkum about this. Look, Nick may well, I’m not saying it’s impossible, that he could form a new political movement that in decades to come could be very enduring. But I would say it’s highly unlikely. His track record suggests he won’t and I suspect what you’ll find is that if Nick Xenophon Team members are elected they will go the same way the last Nick Xenophon Team person went, Ann Bressington, which is to go their own way. He’s effectively asking people to vote. He’s not asking people to vote for him, he’s asking people to vote for some more independents. And you know something if they’re good candidates people may be attracted to them. All I’m doing is just making an observation. I do that as somebody who has a high regard for Nick as an individual but it is important to bear in mind that voting for people for Nick Xenophon Team is not like voting for a Liberal candidate or a Labor candidate.
BEVAN:
Prime Minister, you say you’re pumped about the future.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am.
BEVAN:
What future do you bring for our kids in this state?
PRIME MINISTER:
The future of the kids in this State, and indeed in every State, depends on Australia and Australians being more innovative, more competitive, more productive, more technologically advanced. That is how we remain a high wage, generous, social welfare net, first world economy, that’s absolutely critical. So it’s innovation and seizing the opportunities that arise. Now already last night I met with a number of South Australian business people most of whom were so excited about the prospects arising from the China Australia free trade agreement. They’re seeing very big increases in their exports, whether it’s meat, wine, hides, there’s a whole range of opportunities. So the fact is the global economy is expanding, markets are expanding, opportunities are increasing, and so the issue is how do we exploit them? Now in terms of South Australia, defence is absolutely critical. The defence sector is vital.
ABRAHAM:
And will we get the 12 subs we were promised before the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
As you know there is a competitive evaluation process underway and the goal of the Government is that Australian industry will have the highest possible involvement in the program. And you know we’ve got France, Germany and Japan are invited to participate as partners, and we have a whole process underway. But I’m not in a position to make any announcement about submarines in Adelaide or anywhere else until that process is complete.
ABRAHAM:
So to channel you in the Spy Catcher trial, when you were questioning Maggie Thatcher’s Cabinet secretary, Sir Robert Armstrong.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yep, yep, yep.
ABRAHAM:
Was that promise of 12 subs a lie, a misleading impression, or a bent untruth? Which one?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that makes me feel young again. How old was I? I was 32 when I asked that question. It’s terrific.
ABRAHAM:
How about answering it then? Was it a lie, a misleading impression or a bent untruth?
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s exactly what I would’ve said. I would’ve said answer the question. Look, I’m not going to go back into the archaeology of what was said, and you’re referring to the statement that David Johnston made is that right?
ABRAHAM: Yes, of course.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I didn’t make that statement, I can’t all I can say to you is watch this space, I am very committed to Australia having a substantial defence industry here in Australia. We’re committed to a substantial defence industry in South Australia, and you know that is already here, it’s a big part of your economy. I’m very excited by the way in which new businesses can spin off it. I’m sure you’d know Jim Whalley, the South Australian businessman, whose business provides technology and services right around the world in ICT. That is a good example of one of many businesses in South Australia that have spun out of the defence sector. So defence, and I might say innovation, is very important too. Recently…
ABRAHAM:
And we’re almost out of time Prime Minister, I’m sorry, I apologise.
PRIME MINISTER: Well you shouldn’t have spent so much time asking me about leadership matters and Xenophon, we could’ve talked about innovation and jobs.
ABRAHAM: Well come back on after 8:30.
PRIME MINISTER:
Your listeners are saying, Matt and Dave, wasting your time on politics. I want to know about the jobs of the future. The Prime Minister is here to talk about it and all you want to do is talk about politics.
ABRAHAM:
The past is another place for you I think Malcolm Turnbull. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Right-o. Thanks a lot.
ABRAHAM:
Thank you Prime Minister.