PRIME MINISTER KEY:
Good afternoon firstly I just want to welcome Malcolm to New Zealand. Prime Minister it’s both significant and a great honour your first overseas visit as Prime Minister is to us here in New Zealand. We had a broad ranging discussion today on a range of, a huge number of issues. I think everyone’s aware that there’s been significant debate in New Zealand over the last few weeks about the issue of deportation and the rights of New Zealand’s at detention centres. So you’ll be under no surprise that was a significant part of the conversation, discussion that we had. I think I’d characterise that by saying the discussion was frank, it was honest and it was constructive. It’s the way you would expect friends to talk with these kinds of issues and the way family discuss those issues. We don’t hide away from them, they are what they are but we try and work on a constructive way through those. We also had good discussions about the rights of New Zealanders in Australia, I think the Prime Minister has got a couple of things he wants to sort of say about that. As you would expect from this relationship and because of the depth of it where there’s so many other things we talked about from our work together at Taji Air Base in Iraq, right through to some of economic issues that our two countries face.
I suppose just before I hand over to Malcolm, I think its best he makes a few remarks he can sort of comment on I just want to take this one moment to say that a lot is said about the relationship between Zealand and Australia and we throw around the terms of being family and of the relationship from a New Zealander’s perspective and I think from Australia’s it’s the most significant that we have and I believe that to be the case. From time to time there will always be issues that we want to debate and we don’t always see eye to eye, it’s not the first time in the relationship between New Zealand and Australia that there have been points of contention or discussion, we’ve had that from everything from apples through to other issues.
But two weeks ago I was in Taji Air Base, taking the opportunity to see our troops there and I think we can all be immensely proud of what they're doing there. Whether it's from the element of training, through to force retention, logistics, the medical, Australian and New Zealand forces working together and what is interesting is that in the various groupings and the things that they do, they're intermingled together as one. Not because the leadership is forcing them to do that, not because that was the plan that was set out to do that, because that is the right thing to do when family get together in an international location. And the only way you can tell that they are either Australians or New Zealanders is because of the nature of the fatigues that they wear. And I think that just speaks volumes of Australia and New Zealand.
We compete on the sports field together. And I'm confident we may well be doing that at the World Cup final. But this is a relationship that we highly value and cherish on the side of the Tasman. We had some great discussions today. You are a great friend of New Zealand, Malcolm. And I personally am more than happy to put on the record, I think you’ll not only be a fine Prime Minister of Australia, you’ll be a long-term leader of Australia. And I think your vision for the country, which is optimistic and it reflects the underlying strength of your nation, is very akin to the view that I take over here so it's great to have you over here and thank you.
PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL:
Thank you John. It is wonderful to be here. There are no two countries in the world that are closer together in history in family in times of war, in times of peace, in times of prosperity, in times of hardship, than Australia and New Zealand. We are in every respect family. Right from the earliest days of the struggling European settlement in Sydney, Sydney Cove, it was supplies purchased from Maori farmers here in New Zealand that fed the struggling colonies in Sydney. The connection between our counties has been for hundreds of years. So we are very much family. Can I say that we want to strengthen and deepen the relationship?
I’ve said for many years how much I admire John Key and his leadership of New Zealand.
The practical, pragmatic approach, the business-like approach he has taken has given great impetus to the New Zealand economy. The work he's done on balancing the budget is an example to all of us.
We all have a lot to learn from John, and Lucy and I were delighted to spend several hours last night with Brona and John talking about family, of course, our own families, but also talking about the Australia/New Zealand family and the way in which we can work more closely together. Under my Prime Ministership, I want Australia and New Zealand to work even more closely together than ever before. There is a lot we can learn from each other. There are a lot of things we do that New Zealanders can learn from and vice versa and I've observed that in many fields, many fields, whether it is telecommunications, social policy, planning, right across-the-board. We can learn a lot from each other and we should pay more attention to each other.
Now, John mentioned an announcement that we're making today about student loans. As you know, we have a HELP program, a student loan program in Australia, that we're announcing today or that the Minister for Education and training, Senator Birmingham and are announcing today, that New Zealand citizens who've been long-term residents of Australia since childhood will be given access to our Australian student loan program from 1 January 2016. We believe that that will benefit about 2,600 students, New Zealand students, resident in Australia in the first instance. Now, secondly, we have a very big innovation agenda.
Our government is committed, to indeed as John's has been in New Zealand, and is committed to embracing the future. We recognise that if our nations are to remain first-world high-wage, generous social welfare net economies, then they have to be - our nations have to be, our economies have to be more productive, more competitive, more innovative. We have to be more technologically advanced. And where each of us is moving in that direction. But we can learn a lot from each other. So I'm delighted that the New Zealand minister for just about everything, Stephen Joyce, but certainly for business and innovation and industry will be meeting with our Minister for Innovation, industry and science, Christopher Pyne, because we do have a very big agenda and while we compete, we compete economically in some respect, we certainly compete on the sporting field, but the truth is that Australia and New Zealand, in many respect, are part of one big ecosystem, in terms of innovation, in terms of technology and we have a lot more on which we can collaborate and cooperate, and we should do more of that.
Can I turn now to the question of deportations? Our law provides that visas are revoked, a foreigner, non-Australian citizen, who is convicted of a crime with a penalty of 12 months or more imprisonment, will see their visa revoked. And of course, that has, given the very large number of New Zealanders resident in Australia that has applied to a number of New Zealand citizens. I want you to know that I recognise the concern that is raised in New Zealand. I have discussed it with a New Zealander not so long ago on a train in Victoria. We sat down and we had a good chat about the challenge that he was facing and having to return to New Zealand given the nature of the sentence that he had completed. So we do understand the problem. We do understand how it's perceived in New Zealand and John has been very forthright in our discussions. Now, let me say how we are going to address this.
The first thing I should say is that the numbers of New Zealanders whose visas will be revoked has been high because the law came in at the end of last year and there has been in effect a backlog. So that number, those numbers will decline and then settle at a relatively low number going forward. So that's the first point. The second point is, I've agreed with the Minister for Immigration, Mr Dutton, that he will be devoting considerable additional resources to ensure that the processing of the application by persons whose visas have been revoked to have that revocation in effect set aside so they can stay in Australia, that process of appeal will be made much faster. It will be expedited. That is essentially giving more administrative resources to it.
I also want to make this observation. I know there have been concerns about New Zealand citizens whose visas have been revoked and appeals are pending being in Australian detention centres.
That applies to anybody in Australia who does not have a valid visa any longer and has not left the country, and then they are held in the detention system. Now each and every one of those New Zealanders is able to travel to New Zealand unless there is some particular security concern. But leaving that aside, they are able to travel to New Zealand. They are able to undertake their appeal to the Minister from New Zealand and so there is no need for any New Zealander whose visa has been revoked and who is in detention in Australia to stay there, they can go back to New Zealand and pursue their appeal, which will be dealt with more expeditiously because of the additional resources we’ll put into it.
Finally, and if I may just add another point, when the minister considers this appeal, when the department considers it or the minister considers it, the issues, the major factors for consideration are obviously the person's ties to Australia, family, community, length of time in Australia, and obviously balanced against the nature of the crime. The gravity of the offence.
Threat to the Australian community. It's fairly common sense in a way, but you can understand that we are very alert to all of the issues that have been raised here in New Zealand. And very, very, very empathetic with the concerns that have been expressed. Now, finally, because it is important that we work together very closely and always seek to ensure that everything we are doing together is done more smoothly, is done faster, is done more efficiently, the Prime Minister and I have agreed that our respective ministers and officials will get together very soon in a working group to review all of these arrangements and so that would be Mr Dutton, our Immigration Minister, Mr Woodhouse, the New Zealand Immigration Minister and other relevant ministers and officials to see how we can facilitate and ensure that the process of reviewing these applications for the revocation in effect to be set aside can be done in the most efficient, effective and compassionate way, taking into account legitimate needs of the Australian people to protect our community, the absolutely legitimate sovereign right of Australia to say that a visa is not a right, it is a privilege granted to a visitor, might be a long-term visitor or a long-term resident, and that if that person commits crimes, it is absolutely within the right of the Australian Government on behalf of its people to revoke that visa.
But we will do so clearly taking into account the very important issues of family, community and of course, the very strong relationship we have with New Zealand. Finally, if I can just observe that the relationship between our two countries, right around the world, is extremely close. John talked about our joint efforts in Iraq. The troops there, the ANZAC troops there, have developed their own symbol, as John was saying to me earlier. A boomerang wrapped around which is a Silver Fern. That really speaks volumes for the relationship and those bonds under my Prime Ministership will become closer and we'll seek to collaborate much more closely, pay more attention to each other and learn more from each other's experiences, as each country seeks to grapple with the same challenges in their own respective ways.
Thank you very much.
JOURNALIST:
A question to both Prime Ministers if I might. You both talked about the troops that you've got in Iraq. When will mission there actually be accomplished? What does success look like? And Prime Minister Turnbull, although you can justify a strategic interest there, how can you justify having the second largest commitment of troops after the United States?
PRIME MINISTER KEY:
From New Zealand’s point of view we’ve defined it as a two year mission of training Iraqi Forces.
We committed to that two-year time frame. We think that makes sense in terms of a realistic contribution. We've trained over 2,100 forces and officers so far on a combined basis. My own view of what I saw actually is you can define it as successful and it is working because what we're doing is we're taking forces that are fighting already, that come off the front line, they undertake anything from sort of four to six-week program and all the advice we had both from the soldiers themselves actually and from our people, was that they leave after that four to six- week period significantly upskilled. So I think that's the definition of success. Secondly, one thing we know about ISIL is their propaganda campaign is highly effective. Their use of social media, both to intimidate people around the world but actually to intimidate the very soldiers that they are up against and so one of the big roles of the Australians and New Zealanders is to detox the myths actually that are propagated by the ISIL people. So look, I think that is all working. Will it be the long-term solution to Iraq? My view is: no. The only way through all of this is through diplomatic solution, and a political solution, and the reason for that is, bluntly, you can't kill ISIL at a rate that is going to stop them coming back. You can wound and you can degrade them but depending on how you undertake that, you can just breed another generation of people with grievances. In the end actually when it comes to Iraq, I think as Prime Minister Abadi has committed to, you have to find a place where the Sunni, the Shiites and the Kurds all feel as though they can claim Iraq as their home and live harmoniously next to each other. That's got to be the long-term goal, the degrading of ISIL is an important part of the future but the real future sits in politics in my view.
PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL:
Thank you I’ve listened closely to what the Prime Minister has said, I agree with you John. The answer is political; everyone knows that, every general knows that. It is the commitment of the Australian forces and the New Zealand forces have been very important together with our allies in stabilising the Iraqi - the government in Iraq in ensuring that its Army is in a position to reform and meet the threat from ISIL. That is from Daesh. That's absolutely critical. So stabilising the situation and ensuring the Iraqi Government is in a position to defend its own territories and enforce its law throughout its own territory. That is the goal. As to how long it will take, that is - time will tell. It's very hard to predict. Clearly, John is absolutely right that we have to ensure that we expose Daesh for what it is. They are not a superpower. They are not supermen. And that's why it is important for us to carry on that battle, not simply on the field because obviously the defeat of Daesh in the field is the single most important priority, that would be proof positive of their vulnerability and their deficiencies, but also to take them on in the cyber sphere, where they have been especially effective. And we have a number of measures as you know both in the Middle East and as part of our counter- terrorism strategy domestically to deal with that. Chris, you asked me why Australia has the second largest contingent there. It is the second largest, but there is a long way between our commitment and of course the largest. So our commitment is one that we regard as being appropriate. It is certainly very manageable. It is very much appreciated, and we know that it is making a very material contribution to stability or to restoring stability in the region and hence in the world.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister Turnbull did you consider reviewing that policy when it comes to Kiwis or perhaps going as far as carving out some exemptions for New Zealand?
The policy applies to everybody. It applies to people who've been sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 12 months or more if they are a New Zealander, from the United Kingdom, from China, from America, from Brazil, wherever. So it applies across-the-board. We are a very diverse community we’re just like New Zealand, we have people from every corner of the world living with us and the law applies across-the-board. But the real issue, I think, has been not so much in the law itself but in the fact that there has been a large number of revocations since the law was introduced, and that's because of this backlog and that is being worked through. And those numbers will decline. And also, with the time that it's taken to process the applications to in effect set aside the revocation. So the concerns here, and I've paid very close attention to them, I can assure you that we do, we pay a lot of attention to public opinion in New Zealand.
Trans-Tasman harmony is very important. New Zealand is very important to Australia. And to Australian leaders but the concerns I think have largely arisen from those temporary factors and the delays and we are diverting additional resources to ensure the processing is done much more quickly.
JOURNALIST:
I want to ask about Nauru. Has Australia asked Nauru - has asked New Zealand to resettle refugees currently on Nauru? And if so, Prime Minister Key, what would your response to that be? And a related note, Mr Turnbull, we've seen yesterday a Somali refugee who claims she was raped on Nauru, returned to the island without getting the abortion that she requested. Could you shed nigh light on what's gone on there? Was it to avoid a court injunction on her return?
Dealing with the last question - the information I have is that the woman in question changed her mind about seeking a termination, and that's all I know, that she changed her mind about a termination, and was deemed - regarded as fit to fly and so is returning. So that's the answer to that. In terms of resettling refugees no, we have not asked New Zealand to resettle refugees from Nauru.
That's the answer to that question.
PRIME MINISTER KEY:
New Zealand does have an agreement actually with Australia that we'll take 150 people a year. That's been in place for some time. Australia hasn't exercised their right there [inaudible] but that's always an option that's available.
JOURNALIST:
Will the quicker appeal process be applied to everyone in immigration detention centres? There are a lot of Iranians still in there and Prime Minister Turnbull, would you invite John Key to see the detention centres for him?
PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL:
Just in terms of the processing, the need to process applications as quickly as possible goes across- the-board. As you know, the issue with Iranians in particular of which there are a considerable number in detention in Australia, is that when their appeals are exhausted, as in - and unsuccessful, the Iranian government to date has not been prepared to - will not accept them being returned involuntarily. And so that is why there are a lot of Iranians who do not have a right to live in Australia, have been through of the relevant processes but cannot be returned to
Iran because of the position of the Iranan government and this is a matter that Julie Bishop as I'm sure you will recall has been raising with the authorities in Tehran. As far as detention centres reviewing detention centres, I'm sure if the Prime Minister wished to do that, he would raise it with me.
PRIME MINISTER KEY:
Could I just make a point on the broader issue? Look the way we would see it AS New Zealanders there's two particular points. One is about New Zealanders actually going to detention centres. We in principle don't agree with that. We don't think that they really should be going to detention centres. There's been a history of them being detained under the old legislation but of course the numbers were much smaller and so the first thing that Malcolm's announced is the fact that there will be more resource things will be speeded up and the law ensures that anyone can come home immediately if you want to, so if you look at that, that should help us address the situation that when somebody's visa is revoked, that happens early on in the process and actually they know the outcome of that by the time they finished their sentence in prison and therefore they don't need to go to a detention centre. That's the first issue. I think the second issue that we've really been raising, this whole point about a degree of compassion. We're not arguing these are good people. If they've been to prison for 12 months or more there is a very high probability they've committed a serious crime and Australia should have the right to be deport people if they want to. We have the same right in New Zealand and we exercise it from time to time. But what’s also true is because of the enormity of the flow of New Zealanders to Australia, in reality and because of the carve-out that took place on the special visas from 2001, there's just a lot more New Zealanders in Australia who would be in that category where they can't necessarily get residency and therefore citizenship and so our main point really has been to say look there are some people for whom they've committed these crimes but actually their community of interest is in Australia, they came when they were very young, and maybe their crime isn't as significant as others. What the Prime Minister pointed out rightfully so is that there is an appeal process that can be exercised by the minister and ultimately by the courts if required. And actually, as they've been processing those at the moment, there have been successful appeals made by New Zealanders. And so all I've tried to implore upon the Prime Minister and the Australian system is that where someone isn’t the highest risk where someone has a long-
term community of interest in Australia, I think in the spirit of mateship, there should be some compassion shown, and I hope that the minister who's responsible, Minister Dutton, will take that into account , and history says so far that they are actually on the basis of some of the appeals that have gone to the minister.
JOURNALIST:
My question is for Prime Minister Key. We've already heard Prime Minister Turnbull talk about your record as leader and say it is an example he'd like to follow. During that time, you have seen five Australian Prime Ministers go through what seems like a revolving door. How do you find dealing with Malcolm Turnbull personally so far in this last month or so? And what's your advice to him as he takes on this role further?
PRIME MINISTER KEY:
As a starting point, it's a very easy and natural friendship and relationship. It's pretty plain for everyone to see that we have similar paths in terms of our working life prior to coming to Parliament. I suspect if you were to ask us to answer a series of questions on both economic and social issues, you'd find a high degree of alignment. We're both economic conservatives. I think we're both pretty socially liberal. We both lead centre right parties that represent very broad constituencies. We're both dedicated to our families and we're both by nature sunny optimistic people. And I think that that's got to be a recipe for a relationship that works well. And look in the end, it's not for me to really give advice to any leader, but the only thing I would say to Malcolm is to carry on doing what he's doing, because Australia is an amazing country, it's got an abundance of natural resources, it's got hugely talented people, it attracts people from round the world, it's got an amazing climate, and I personally believe, as we see Asia continuing to grow and develop and do well, Australia and New Zealand will be enormous beneficiaries of that. We've got to stay open in the world, open to trade, open to advancing innovation, science, technology and all of those different issues and I think people vote for hope and for a brighter future. I don't think they vote for negativity. In all the public comments I've seen Malcolm make so far, that's exactly what he keeps talking about. If he keeps doing that, I suspect he will be very successful.
PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL:
You're very kind, thank you. That's very generous. But John's absolutely right. We are both sunny optimistic people. And we're both committed to growth and jobs and innovation. Neither of us is afraid of the future. We see the future with all of its unpredictability and volatility as something to embrace. We see volatility as our friend, not our foe. We see the expanding global economy as not filled with scary challenges like some people on the other side of politics do, at least in Australia. We see it as full of big opportunities. And our ability, whether we are Australians or New Zealanders, our ability to take those opportunities is only limited by our courage and imagination. And both of us lead courageous and imaginative nations. So this is going to be a great 21st century for Australia and New Zealand.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister Key, are you considering going over to Australia yourself to the detention centres to see what New Zealanders are facing in them? And also probably a question for both of you here, we've had the student loan announcement today. Are there any other moves in the pipeline to do with benefits for New Zealanders living in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER KEY:PRIME MINISTER KEY:
In terms of detention centres, no. The reason for that is manyfold. Firstly I think on the back of the announcements that we've heard and the resources that will be committed I'm reasonably confident that the number of New Zealanders spending time in detention centres other than them wanting to do that and not return to New Zealand because they’ll have the right to do that will diminish significantly over time. Secondly, we have a very consistent message for New Zealanders that are in detention centres. And that is that we will provide for them through the ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade consular support. If they have any concerns about any issues that they face, they should reach out and speak to our people and we will follow up on that and secondly my experience of Australia is that it is a country that is bound by a very good legal process. So there is a review process that takes place. It is independent. If people have concerns, they need to make those concerns known in and the independent review will take place. On the wider issue of the plight of New Zealanders in Australia, look we've seen some gradual progress over time. No-one's arguing that it's the biggest wins of all, but you have seen some over the course of the last 12 months. Today's announcement is a welcome one. We continue to talk about that issue. And I just hope over time, again, that we can make some more progress for those New Zealanders. My main overall argument actually is I think the right one from our point of view. New Zealanders are added value to Australia. Per equivalent population of the Australian people, more New Zealanders are in work, more New Zealanders earn more, and less of them are incarcerated. You know we are lifters in the Australian economy, we are not leaners. We don't go to Australia looking for a free lunch. New Zealanders go there with the expectation that they'll work and add value to Australia and my experience of the 25,000-odd Australians who come over to New Zealand every year is they are great contributors to our economy and we welcome them over. We think they make great New Zealanders and as long as they barrack for the right rugby team we're happy to have them there.
PRIME MINISTER TURNBULL:
Well, I know the right rugby team to be barracking for. (Laughs)
And so do you in our respective ways. Anyway, it's been great. And we will - we should see, that's to say John Key and I should see the relationship as one that we keep on improving, and refining to make it closer and more productive all the time. It's like any - Australia and New Zealand is like any love affair. You've got, if it's to last, you have to put a lot of work into it. You have to put time into it. And you can see that the commitment I have to the relationship from my visit here today and from the very close attention I've always paid to developments in New Zealand, to New Zealand industry, to New Zealand Government. There is a lot for us to learn from New Zealand, and also a lot to learn
from New Zealand for Australia, but we are always so much stronger when we are working together. So I'm really pleased at the discussions we've had today and I know that John and I will have a very strong partnership as the Prime Ministers of our two great nations. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
ENDS