I PRIMI MINISTER'S INTERVIEW WITH CF-A14Z-EL 10 NZ'S 18 OCTOBER 197522
Mr Whitlam it was reported yesterday that you asked all C-overnment
Departments to submit reports to you on their financial positions.
Have you received those reports?
No, I'm expecting them for Monday when there's a Cabinet meeting.
As you know it at the moment, what is the finarcial position of
the Government?
Well there is full ' upply voted last May up ' till about November.
Then there are many things for which Supply has been voted on a
continuous basis. The matters where the money will run out are
payments for Public Servants, for the armed forces, for Medibank
patients, for students, for services for people in aged persons'
and handicapped persons' homes, that sort of thing.
How long ' do-you think before those things are affected?
It would vary from one Department to another. I wouldn't, I
Q couldn't, give, effectively, an overall estimate.
It's been suggested that it may be three or four weeks. Do you think
that would be conservative?
In some cases; in some cases, it might be less than that. In some a
bit longer.
What's the Government's next move in this situation? What do you plan
to do next?
O P. M.: The next move is up to the Opposition. The Opposition has voted to
defer the Budget Bills, and of course they are avoiding the crucial
issue: whether they will pass them or reject them. They have to make
up their minds a Budget has never been deferred in the past; it
certainly never has been rejected in the seventy-five years we've had
an Australian Parliament. And they have broken all precedent and all
principle even in deferring the Bills. The Bills will have to be passed.
Q: What is the likelihood of a half Senate election now?
Oh, there has to be an election for half the Senate before the end of
next June. I haven't decided when I will recommend to the Governor-General
if he asks the State Governors, whose job it is, to issue the writs for
that election.
If there wasn't a half election until the middle of next June and this
deadlock remained, what sort of a situation would the Government be in?
What sort of a situation would the coutry be in if the Budget was rejected?
That's what you're asking. The Government will be there whether the
Budget is passed or rejected, because the Government has a majority in the
House of Representatives and it's in the House of Representatives that
Governments are made and unmade and it's only in the House of Representatives
that any Budget Bills or any money Bills at all can be introduced. / 2
Q: w
ea
Q: Mr Fraser suggested yesterday that unless that the. Government made
a move shortly to end the deadlock that the Governor-General may,
in fact issue writs for
The Governor-General can only issue writs for a House of Representatives
election on the advice of the Government. The Constitution says
that the writs for.: a House of Representatives election are issued
by the Governo. r-General -in-Council -' that-means, in effect, by the
" Government. So then, ' the Government will certainly not advise the
SGovernor-General to issue writs for a House of Representatives election
just because the Senate wants them to be issued. So, the House of
Representatives has a majority of members supporting the Government,
and therefore the Government decides, the House of Representatives
. decides,-the Senate doesn't and mustn't decide-whenthere will be. an
election for the House of Representatives.
Q: o-So irrespective-of how bad the situation gets, there are-no circumstances
under which the : CGvernor-General could issue those writs
That is absolutely right. The Queen, in England, or her Viceroy in
Australia, the Governor-General, cannot issue writs for a House of
Representatives election except when the Government advises him to do Q
-so. . He has no -indeendent right nor of course. has the . Queen, any
indepen" Sr. t * right, o ; say that th-re will be an election for the House
of Representatives here, or the House of Comnons in Britain. It is
". the Gover-nmruit that decides that question.
Q: How ' do you view statements by the former Liberal Prime Minister, John
' Gatton ,: that if the situation continues we could in fact -see riots in
the streets?
There are undoubtedly very strong feelings on this matter. I've never
seen people so stirred up on an issue as they have been by this
-usurcation by the Se. ntors. Look, I should say this: the motion that
was passed by the Senate was an amendment to uhe motion to pass the
. Budget; it was an amendment to defer the debate, and if the Labor
Senator Milliner hadn't died a few months ago. and, if the Premier
of-Queensland hadn't appointed a non-Labor replacement, then the votes
-on that amenament would have been 50-50 there would have been as many
voting against it as for it it wouldn't have been carried.
As Senator Steele Hall said, this amendment was carried over a dead man's
body.
Q: Just on the subject of rioting in the streets, just how much worse
do you think the situation...
I don't want-to speculate on that -' I. believe that the Senate will
. pass the Budget; that is what I expect.
Q: -Well, . when do you think they'll do it Sir?
It may be a week, it may be-a few weeks, but that is my expectation
that the Senate will pass the Budget.
Q: That surely.-would be ea, s l. ap in the face for. Mr Fraser?
Well, he. has put himself in to this position. He was saying, only a
very few months, and he said it in fact as recently as the time the
3.
Bu * dget was introduced, that the Party which had a majority in the
House of Representatives was entitled to govern for the three years
for which it was elected. And he also said that he couldn't see
circumstances why the Budget should not be passed. Now, nothing
has changed. See) the Government has a majority in the House of
Representatives; it will have a majority for the rest of the life~,
the three-year lifeof this Parliament; it's entitled to govern.
Sir, you're known-as a man who likes a bit of excitem-ent and a
challenge. Is this an exciting and challenging time for you, or is
it a worrying time
P. M.:
0
11 P. M.: Well, it's a challenge, obviously. I pick up the challenge, I will
not surrender this. It's a great principle that the House of
Representatives decides who will be the Government. There are two
Houses, you can't have the Senate deciding who will be the Government
you can't have a Prime Minister in the Senate; you can't have a
Treasurer in the Senate. It has to be, in each case, in the House of
Representatives. Now, this is not something which my Government or
the Labor Party acknowledges and propounds it's something which
every Party, every Government, has propounded and acknowledged.
If I were to accept the situation that the Senate can decide when there
will be an election for the House of Representatives, even if it
doesn't face the people itself, then I will have sold the past, it
will be imnpossible to have stable government in Australia in the
future. There are two times every year when money Bills have to
be passed there is October for the Budget, there is April for the
Supply to carry over from July to November following that, while the
next Budget's being passed. Now if we accept that the Senate can,
. on those two occasions every year, reject a money Bill, cut off
the funds for the Govern~ ment, then we are conceding the principle
that governments in Australia are elected, not for three years,
but for six months, and that is impossible, in those circumstances,
to have stable government.
Can you see the political structure, Australia's political structure,
ever fully recovering from this crisis, or do you think~ it's gone
too far?
If I don't win this issue, there will be permanent wounds in the
Australian political structure. The conservative forces are those
that always stress the proper course, the conventions, the
right thing, and this year, in the course of a few months, the
conservative forces have inflicted, or are threatening to inflict,
very serious wounds on all the political proprieties in this country.
First, two governments, State governments, appointed successors to
Senators who didn' t belong to the Party to which the former Senator
had belonged. Secondly, _ Mr Fraser has said that the Senate may
reject the Budget it's never happened before. And thirdly,
the Liberal Federal Council, last weekend, urged the State Premiers,
the non-Labor Premiers, to advise the State Governors not to meet
the Governor-General's request for the issue of writs for a half
Senate election. Now these are three things which have never happenedthat
is . the appointment of a person who doesn't support the Party. of
a former senator had never happened in the quarter of a century
that we've had proportional voting for the Senate; the rejection of
Supp! yhas never happened in the seventy-five years we've had a
federal Parliament; and for a State Governor to disregard the request
by the. Governor-General for writs for the Senate had never happened on the
previous 24 occasions when ther-e' vp hr
Was the recent visit to Australia by Tirath Kh,_ mlani an embarrasement
to the Australian Governnent?
Oh, yes it was, but. this is a pure side issue, because he didn't say
anything that wasn't known three months ago. And the Opposition
never did anything then. That is there is no impropriety, no illegality,
which they can point to. They've never moved a motion about it yet.
Q: Were-you disappointed in Mr Connor's performance in the....
This is a completely side issue. We-were talking about the gross
impropriety of rejecting the Budget. -That is completely ' irrelevant
towhat you arenow asking.
Thanks very much. 0
that any Budget Bills or any money Bills at all can be introduced. / 2