D'ARCY AND POWER: IN OS SSION
Monday 12th May 1.9/ 5
FULL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW BETWEEN THE PRIME MINISTER AND BILL D'ARCY
FILMED IN TAHITI AT TBE CONCLUSION OF THE PRIME MINISTER'S OVERSEAS TRIP
D'ARCY: Prime Minister, you've been away from Australia for 19 days
now. You've visited Peru, you've been to the Commonwealth
Heads of Government Conference in Kingston, and you've seen
President Ford in Washington. What do you see as. thepositive
achievement of the, trip, what's the most important thing that
has come out of it?
MR. WHITLAM: There are two particular matters. One is the regular
opportunity which occurs every two years to confer with
members of the Community of Nations, the old British Commonwealth.
There were nearly three dozen of us there, and there is no
organisation where there can be such a frank and natural
exchange of views as takes place in the context of the
Commonwealth, and for Australia, this is particularly important,
because there are about 15 Commonwealth nations which are
island or coastal orhinterland states round the Indian Ocean.
There's no gathering place in the world for nationsround the
Indian Ocean to compare with the Commonwealth. Furthermore,
of course, there are several countries which will be entering
the Commonwealth in the South Pacific, Papua-New Guinea being
the conspicuous example. Now the other great.. thing. is that..-,,
I had the opportunity to speak with the American. . a4ministration
and the American Congress, and there have been a great number of
matters where it was interesting for them and.. for us . to exchange
views. There've been some big movements in the world in the
last few weeks and we were able to discuss them. *' 1
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D'AIICY3
MR. WHITLAM:
ARCY:
MR. WHITLAM: Prime Minister, it's known that your relations
with President Nixon were less than warm. It's the second
time now that you've seen President Ford in seven months.
What sort of/ HpoR have you been able to establish with him?
What are the relations between you both?
You slipped in a reference to President Nixon, so I don't
want to respond to what you say, I think you may be exaggerating
it. At any rate, about President Ford, whom I've met twice
in the last seven months, it would be obvious that he is a very
wholesome, decent person, and he is doing a good job in very
difficult circumstances. We have been able to get on very well
on the two good meetings that we've had.
Did you notice, Prime Minister, whether the President has been
able to establish himself a lot during the seven months
between when you saw him last.
He is respected by everyone in Congress as far as I could see.
I thought that this would be the case after what I was told by the
leaders of the two parties in the two houses of the Congress
seven months ago. Now on this occasion I saw-them again and
I saw more members of the Senate and the Congress than on the
previous time actually, and they all respect the President as
a man. They don't always support him,' of. course, and this would
be particularly the case on many domestic issues, but.: the point is,
on those matters where Australia and America are concerned
with eachother, there is total support for the relations which
we've establiuhed, support by tho Administration, tho
President, the Vice PreSident, the Cabinet, particularly
the Secretary of State, Dr. Kissinger, and the other people
in the State Department, the Deputy, the Assistant Secretaries
and so on, all of whom we met, and it's also the case that
the Congress on both sides, both houses, supports the relationship
which my Government has been able to establish with the United
States.
D'ARCY: A statement issued by the White House after your meeting with
President Ford said that the President has reassured you that
the United States would honour its obligations towards
Australia as far as defence. Did you seek that assurance
or was it
WHITLAM; No, no, this was volunteered, there was no prompting by us
at all, but I hasten to say it came as no surprise to me
because I have kept in touch with successive administrations,
Johnson, Nixon, Ford administrations, and also with Congress
under those administrations. I first started the practice, I think p.
I was the first political leader in Australia to do so, to
confer with Congressional leaders back in June 1967, and I've
never seen any objection or any queries about the relationship
between the U. S. and Australia in that time from Presidentsor
from leaders of Congress.
D'ARCY: Prime Plinister, one of the matters that was raised was the
question of the Vietnam refugees, and you've spoken of the need
to internationalise the refugee programme. Are you disappointed
Sir that Asian countries in general and Singapore in particular
have not joined in that programme?
MD, WILIAA1sYes, mind you I don't want Australians to got any impression
that there is some obession or confrontation in the United
States on this issue of the refugees. It was mentioned
relatively briefly in the conversation with the President,
and one member of the House of Representatives International
Relations Committee asked a question about it, and one member
of the Senate Foreign Relations Comnittee asked a question about
it, but all the other members on both occasions were interested
in other issues. This is not as big an issue in the U. S.
as many of the press reports have said. Congress, I believe, will
be supporting the administration in placing those refugees who've
got to the U. S. or have been taken to the U. S. You mentioned
the position in Asia in particular. I suppose it is disappointing
that all of us who subscribed back in 1951 to the United Nations
Convention on Refugees, -and then in 1967 to the protocol on refugee.
none of us really, and I suppose Australia must accept some
responsibility in this respect also, have ever put it to the Asian
nations that they should subscribe to the Convention and the Protocol
In the whole of our region, the only nations that have subscribed
to it are Australia, New Zealand and Fiji, and then I suppose it's
relevant to point out, Britain and France have, because they have
colonies in this area. The United States has, of course, Canada
has, but the Philippines, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia,
and the countries further west didn't, they haven't. Now this is a
gap.
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D IAIICY:
MR. WHITLAN:
D'A ROY:
MR. WHITLAMI: Do you find it ironic, PrJ) i M/ in ister, that the Prime Minister
of Singapore, Mr. Lee Quan Yew, should attack you at the
Commxonwealth Heads of Government Conference, on the question
of students from Singapore in Australia, yet he will not allow
some 3,500 Vietnam refugees who are on ships in the Singapore
harbour to land in Singapore.
You're putting propositions to me for which I have no direct
knowledge. I saw Mr. Lee on several occasions during the nine
days we were in Jamaica together, and I also saw the other
heads of Government, Tuin Razak from Malaysia, Wal Rowling finn)
New Zealand, and Harold Wilson and Pierre Trudeau. We discussed
these matters of refugees among other matters. Now on this
occasion, whatever might have been the situation at the last
Commonwealth meeting in Ottawa in October 1975, Mr. Lee was quite
relaxed and subdued. He wasn't taking a shot at us about
students. He's realised that if unpopular decisions are to be
made about students, he's got to share in those decisions at
least. IBut this was no longer an issue this time.
Prime Minister, can I ask you how many refugees Australia
will take.
No, of course you can't. This has been asked of Dr. Cairns
at home, and he's given you the same answer. No one knows
at this stage. All one can say is that it's clearly a different
situation from the one when we left home where there was
still a Government in Saigon, and what one did about people who
were to leave that country had to be done with the consent of that
Government, and on the other hand there's the situation now where
tens of thousands have left the country, got away from it, so
D'I AllOY:
Mi. WvJITILM:
D AROY:
MR. WHITLAMs
Dl'AROY: rTphoro in a roal opportunity, I would think, that the country
will now, at last, be abi( e to be reconstructed and conciliated
in peace.
Do you think that some of those displaced persona, some of
those, for example, in Guam, do you think it's possible
for them to go back.
I don't know how soon, but you remember when there were so
many thousanqds who came to Australia after Budapest in 1956,
many thousands in fact went back, and as we now know, there are
a great number of Hungarians settled in Australia, some of them
millionaires, who now quite freely and happily make return visits
to Hungary. Now this is what will happen before many years have
passed in respect of Vietnam.
Prime Minister, one final question. Do you think it's ever going
to be possible for you to make an overseas trip without
Opposition demands for your return home because of some
domestic issue.
Oh, I don't know, I suppose every successive Liberal leader
has to cut his teeth some way or another, they haven't done it
very successfully, I'm now on my fifth. Well I dare say I will
digest him in due course.
Thank you very much. -000--
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