THE PRIME MINISTER'S PRESS CONFERENCE
WITH MR. MICHAEL SOMARE
CHIEF MINISTER OF PAPUA NEW GUINEA
AT PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA
WEDNESDAY, 17 JANUARY 1973
PRIME MINISTER: Ladies and gentlemen: the Chief Minister and
the Minister for External Territories and I have had discussions this
morning and this afternoon on matters concerning our two countries.
You have a copy of the communique which we prepared. Are there
any questions yo'd. like to ask us?
Have you all finished reading the communique?
A. Yes.
PRIME MINISTER: I should have said also that the Treasurer
is issuing a statement about the Commonwealth guarantee of Papua
New Guinea loans until independence comes about. Have you got
copies of that too?
A. Yes.
Q. You say on page 3 of the communique that the Australian
Government is willing in principle to negotiate the relocation of
the border between Australia and Papua New Guinea and would not allow
any narrow considerations to obstruct such a settlement. Can you tell
us exactly what form this negotiation would take. In particular,
would you feel it necessary to pass the Territorial Sea and
Continental Shelf Bill'first through Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER: No. This can be a separate issue.
Q. Would you regard it as an area in which the Queensland
Government might be able to take a challenge to the High Court?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't want to express a legal opinion on this.
Very careful consideration has been given to the wording of the
communique on this point and I'd rather leave it as it is.
Q. When you say that there are constitutional considerations
which have to be taken into account and which might delay the matter,
can you tell us how long a delay you ' re thinking of and precisely
what constitutional considerations?
PRIME MINISTER: Political development often takes longer in the
Legislative Assembly of Queensland than in the House of Assembly
of Papua New Guinea, and we have in mind that a Queensland Act
which would be the simplest way of resolving it might take longer
than it will take the House of Assembly to vote a timetable for
independence.
Q. in the communique your Government still seems to be
aiming for 1974?
PRIME MINISTER: We're working towards that, yes.
Q. And the Chief Minister still seems to be keeping an open
date on that. Do you see any difference still between you working
for independence dates?
PRIME MINISTER: No. At this stage, Australia has to speak f or
Papua New Guinea in international councils such-as the United
Nations and, accordingly, it is easier for Australian elected persons
to realise international feelings on this matter than it is for all
elected persons in Papua New Guinea to realise such matters. The
communique points out the resolution of the United Nations
General Assembly on this matter. You will notice that on 14
December, the General Assembly called on Australia to prepare
in consultation with the Government of Papua New Guinea a
further timetable for independence. There's no particular
significance in the fact that this resolution was passed with
Australia's support after the elections. The late Government had
in fact supported the same resolution in the Fourth Committee in
November. So there is no difference between the parties in the
Australian Parliament on this proposal.
Q. I meant differences between you anft the Chief Minister.
We've still got an open date. He's not committed to 1974?
PRIME MINISTER: No. We are working towards it.
Q. But the Chief Minister doesn't accept the date as 1974?
PRIME MINISTER: He doesn't operate in the context of the
House of Assembly.
Q. May I ask a question of M-r. Somare?
PRIME MINISTER. Yes, gentlemen, as a matter of fact I was
hoping that most of the questions would be directed to the
Chief Minister.
0. Chief Minister, Mr. Somare: Are you disappointed to find
that your Government and the Australian Government is not in unison
on the question of independence for New Guinea?
CHIEF MINISTER: I'm not disappointed at all. All I've said is
that we have to see how we operate in Papua New Guinea context.
We have got certain problems. We've got problems of people having
to understand what we tell them and as elected representatives of
the people. We have to get their feelings where the feelings
are and, of course, this is an example of what happened. My
group, in particular, went out saying that we had to have selfgovernment
in 1972 and independence soon after that, and we feel
in Papua New Guinea that this has come so quick, no one expected that
T wol sitting where I am today and I said to them that these
changes will come. Whether we like it or not, change must come.
Now the same thing applies with the independence. Just that there
are some sections of the community in Papua New Guinea who are not
used to it, maybe the word independence is so confused in their
minds and people don't know what independence is. There have been
threats of independence comes, exodus of white people, they take all
their money away j Australia withdraws its grant its monetary
assistance and so on, And this is the fear. Once this is
explained to people, it's a matter of only accepting it once
people know really what independence is all about.
Q. Sir, in your talks with the Prime Minister today have
you sought assurances as to the continuation of support and-the
degree of continuation of support for Papua New Guinea after
independence? What sort of reassurances have you received?
CHIEF MINISTER: With my talks with the Prime Minister today,
we have had this assurance I've had this assurance that the
Australian Government will continue to give us financial assistance
even close to independence and after independence if the Papua
New Guinea Government wants Australia's assistance.
Q. Has this been quantified? Have you indicated how much
support you will need or require?
CHIEF MINISTER: No, we haven't said anything about what
actual figure that we want, but assistance in manpower, financial
assistance and so on.
Q. Sir, what's your personal preference on when the
Territory should be given * independence. We were talking earlier
about the feeling of the people and explaining it to them. Now
what's your personal preference on when?
PRIME MINISTER: Remember he was up with us in Wewak
three years ago?
CHIEF MINISTER: Sometimes it's very difficult and when you met me
some years ago you felt that things couldn't have changed much faster
than you expected and today you've seen the change. So change is
like that.
0. What's your personal preference, Sir?
CHIEF MINISTER: Well, I have said it. After self-government,
will come independence, but it is a matter for us to be able to work
out and if the House of Assembly endorses a timetable which, when
we ask for House of Assembly's endorsement, and if House of Assembly
agrees that could be maybe towards the end of 1974 could be middle
of 1975, so it's very difficult to work out the exact date.
Q. Chief Minister, one of the problems of independence will
be the question of unity. We read reports last week of the
incidents you faced in Bougainville and the successionist
demonstrators in Bougainville. Did you raise t. hese at all in your
talks today with the Prime Minister?
CHIEF MINISTER: This is quite true that you would have the question
of unity in the country but I think the people of Papua n~ ew Guinea
would know by standing together they can achieve more. 2t is
quite true in my last week's tour of Bougainville you have this
feeling. maybe it came in the wrong time when two of my senior
public servants were involved in the incident and were killed.
And I went to Bougainvilile at the wrong time when people were ai11
emotional about the whole matter, but I find that in Bougainville
itself and in other places if there is a need for quicker
development, they'd rather go much faster because when you take
Bougainville it's much more people are mu'ch more sophisticated
people have had dealings a long time there are a lot more
educated people on the island, So you have to work with this
feeling and for my position in the country it is very difficult
to be able to say we had to wait you have to get people in
Gazelle Peninsula and Bougainville, possible in New Island
and other places to wait so if you want to get unity in the
country all you have to do is let's show something let's show that
we can do something on our own. They feel that they are part of
the whole show. But if you wait too long, you'll probably find that
you've got this kind of feeling.
Q. Mr. Whitlam, may I return, while we're still on this
question of independence, to you, Sir: In the reference in the
communique on top of page 2 to the timing for independence you say
that the Government would work towards 1974. This would be subject
to consultation with the Government of New Guinea and the
endorsement of the House of Assembly. Is this a firm undertaking
the Australian Government will not unilaterally declare the
independence of Papua New Guinea?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I think in practical terms Papua New
Guinea will move just as surely and rapidly to independence as
we all now observe that she has moved to self-government. In
effect, there is self-government already in Papua New Guinea. The
Australian Government exercises no authority makes no decisions
internally in Papua New Guinea without consulting the Chief Minister
and his Government. Perhaps I should explain the reference to
endorsement by the House of Assembly as representing the wishes of
the people refers to the sections of the Charter of the United
Nations dealing with the trusteeship system. It indicates that the
Australian Government will seek the endorsement by the Trusteeship
Council of the United Nations of the view that on the question of
independence as hitherto on the question of self-government the
House of Assembly is regarded as representing the wishes of . the
people. In other words it is to counteract the idea which is
spread in some quarters that there should be a plebiscite or a
referendum. The late Australian Government, the present
Australian Government, the Trusteeship Council, successive Houses
of Assembly is Papua New Guinea have all taken the attitude that
the House of Assembly expresses the wishes of the people in the
terms of the charter.
Q. Does that mean you need a majority vote in the House of
Assembly before New Guinea can be declardd independent?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no. You don't have to have it. In
practical terms you will have it. You don't have to have it, but in
practical terms you will.
0. May I ask the Chief Minister a couple of points about the
Torres Strait border? Mr. Somare, where precisely would you like
the border to be? How far south would you like it to come? Are
you planning at any time to confer with the Queensland Government
yourself and explain to them what you'd like, and I notice on page 3
that you say you are confident it would be possible to reach a
solution. If you don't reach a solution will you take it to the
International Court for a solution?
CHIEF MINISTER: Well I think I'll have to answer you back to front.
Talking about going to International Court we are not yet a sovereign
country and this is something that we cannot test on the International
Court. Your first point which you raised was that we have no
I have no intention at the moment to talk with the Premier of
Queensland. This idea of disputing the boundary -we are thinking of
taking it down JO degrees south coming together -I think it's the
Commonwealth's prerogativeto be able to talk with each State and we
as a non-sovereign country I don't see my position as jumping the
Commonwealth to go and talk to the Queensland Premier. So my position
at the moment is all I have to do is communicate to the Commonwealth.
Q. But you'd like to be at the 10 degree parallel?
CHIEF MINISTER: South.
Q. Sir, on that same question on page 4 the phrase you used
as the Australian Government: Would it facilitate contact between
the Papua New Guinea Government and the islanders and does that mean
that you plan to visit the islands, would you like to visit the
islands?
CHIEF MINISTER: No, I have no plans at this stage to visit the
islands. I'm hoping that the officials from the Australian Government
and officials from our Government will have to sit down and talk about
it and then find out from the people concerned on the island what
their feelings are before we start talking about whether we should go
and visit the island or whether the Australian Government should go and
visit the island.
Q. Chief Minister, on the question of Bougainville again, did
you get any impression from your visit there that they really did want
to secedeand if they did would you have any power to stop them?
CHIEF MINISTER: Well there is a feeling all throughout the island
in my week's travel throughout the island of Bougainville there is a
feeling of secession. This was expressed that we want to be ab& e
to break away but there is also a feeling of we want to have autonomy
for our own island. There were suggestions made on our relationship
between the central Government and this is something which the
Constitutional Planning Committee of the House of Assembly has to sit
down and work out, what sort of powers they should have as the
central Government and what sort of powers should we go for
regional type government or we have to move ahead so that people
feel that they haven't been left out.
Q. Mr. Chief Minister, following on Bougainville, obviously
Bougainville Copper has a fairly large place in the economic
planning of Papua New Guinea. I was wondering if you could tell
us whether you have any indication whether Bougainville Copper
as a company is attempting to prevent secession or is, in fact,
working towards secession on Bougainville.
CHIEF MINISTER: Well I'd be it would look silly on my part
to say that they are working to prevent they are deliberately
encouraging it because I don't know what the feeling of Bougainville
Copper is.
Q. Chief Minister, if I may, on page 4 of the communique it says
that Australia also agreed to an urgent examination of the Chief
M~ inister's request for a continuing aid commitment. As I understood
you were coming here today to look for confirmation of an earlier
promise. That seems to fall short of what you're looking for?
CHIEF MINISTER: Well, I've been given verbal assurance by the
Treasurer, the Honourable Mr. Crean, that this will be done
this is the verbal assurance I have got and this is something
that we still have got discussions to come sometime this year that
we will also be taking this one up again. But I've been given a verbal
assurance that this aid will continue.
Q. Mr. Somare, you indicated talking about Bougainville a
moment ago that you are thinking in terms of giving Bougainville
a reasonable degree of regional autonomy. I think your Government
has already more or less, agreed to do the same for the Gazelle
Peninsula. Do you think it is possible to give certain areas a
lot of regional autonomy without giving it to all areas and thus
to weaken the authority of the central government throughout the
country? CHIEF MINISTER: Well, this is something... It could be very
difficult at this stage, but this is something which the
Constitutional Planning Committee will have to look at very
closely. Whether the system and type of government which we are
following at the moment is workable in our society and this is wherethis
was the purpose of setting up a Constitutional Planning Committee
to be able to find out what type of government-what kind of rules we
would like to set up whether the system which we have got suits the
people and their needs. So it could be very difficult for us
to say we should give all the regional governments to everyone.
There are problems, certainly there are problems in certain areas of
Papua New Guinea, but this is something which the Constitutional
Planning Committee has to come up with the answer. What would be
our direction what pattern of government we should follow. So
it is very difficult for me to say what we're going to follow till
such time as the people of Papua New Guinea tell their
Constitutional Planning Committee what they want.
Q. Are you prepared to express your own personal preference
for a regional type of government or not, Sir?
CHIEF MINISTER: Sometimes it's very difficult to express one's
personal opinion but I have always felt that you have a government
which we have got at the moment -we have used the system for the
last generation that this is the pattern we have been following
but if the majority of the people of Papua New Guinea decide they
want to have something else, well, it's a majority decision.
Q. Given the complexity of this problem of self-government and
the problems of consulting the different groups in the country and
reaching some sort of concensus, have you got enough time between
now and the end of next year to come to a proper decision on the
constitutional arrangements for the country or is the end of 1974
pushing it a bit too close?
CHIEF M4INISTER: I think we've got time, but we sometimes in Papua
New Guinea like to take our time and time in the Australian sense
doesn't appeal to us much, but I feel, you know, that wqe've got a lot
of time to be able to work out something and eventually we'll have
self-government in the time that we said.
Q. If you feel you can't get the House of Assembly behind you for
independence say, by the end of 1974, do you see the Australian
Government standing up to international opinion on your behalf and
supporting you with a later date for independence?
CHIEF MINISTER: Well I would say that darlier when it started round
about 1968 people were against self-government and they said no
self-government for Papua New Guinea for another 50 or 100 years, but
things went very fast and I don't expect this to happen. Once people
know what they are doing-once they know what independence is All
about I think people will realise, and we would come much closer
than we expected.
Q. Mr. Somare, on the border question again, do you, Sir, see any
valid point in the suggestion that; s been made in a few quarters
here that there should be a pleviscite of the people who live on the
islands concerned with any border realignments involved in the
suggestion you've made? And secondly, do you see anything less than
the possibility that, when the border is realigned, it will involve the
complete transfer of sovereignty over the land areas that are
concerned to Papua New Guinea on your side of that border?
CHIEF MINISTER% Well your first question about plebiscite: this
is something which I don't know what the Queensland Premier would dowhether
hie wants a plebiscite for the Torres Strait Islanders but
I'd say that, as far as we are concerned, we feel that there are areas
in which these people are ethnically related to some of the western
district people and we could find out, as I said, there'll be official
groups from the Australian Government and from my Government that will
be seeking their views to find out sometimes a plebiscite can end
up with yes and no answers and you really don't know what the people's
thinking is. Coming back to your second point which you raised about
problems. As I said earlier that I thi ' nk we, the Papua New Guinea
Government and the Australian Government willcome to some common
agreement on the line that we want to be able to operate from
the seabed and so on, and I think this is something,* as I said
earlier, this is the Commonwealth's per ogative and as a nonsovereign
country I don't think we are in a position to be able to
take it up to court to dispute that and this matter would lie in
the hands of the Commonwealth Government, and we will be talking with
the Commonwealth Government and Queensland Government to sort out this
thing to find a compromise position.
Q. Mr. Whitlam, may I ask you a question. Sir, on page 4 of the
communique you talk about a provisional agreement regarding the
sovereignty over the Territory regarding the border question. The
provisionayI agreement related you said to seabed division fishing
and navigational rights. Is it an undertaking by the Australian
Government to hand these rights over to Papua New Guinea once you have
the power presumably under the Territorial Seas Bill?
PRIME MINISTER: The power-would not only be under the Act you
mentioned, Mr. Barnes. it would also be under the external affairs
power once Paptua New Guinea is a sovereign state. These matters are
determined by agreement say, between Australia and Indonesia
already they have been. They are in the process of being determined
between Indonesia and Papua New Guinea at this moment.
Q. In both cases though, would the endorsement of the States
involved PRIME MINISTER: There is no purported State interest in those cases.
There can be no obstruction by the State in those two cases. When
Papua New Guinea is an inddpendent sovereign nation as of course
Indonesia is, then it would be presumably completely possible for
Australia and Papua New Guinea to come to a sensible, as contemporary
an agreement on these matters as it has been for Indonesia and Australia
to come to such an agreement. I point out again as th1e communique
mentions that this is a matter of which the United Nations has taken
notice, the visiting mission to Papua New Guinea in January, February,
early part of March in 1971 referred to it. The position is that the
purported border between Queensland and Papua passes less than a mile
from the Papuan coast for a distance of more than 60 miles. There
are within that what's ordinarily called by any standard " territorial
waters" three islands with a population of 370 people. The visiting
mission pointed out that this question could harm good relations in
the future between Australia and Papua New Guinea. The mission said
the question is one which in the opinion of the mission merits being
kept under constant review. Now it is of course an intolerable position
to say that people in any country can't go from one part of the
country to another part of the country without going through the
territory of another country. Somebody mentioned the International
Court of Justice. I would not believe that the International Court
of Justice would validate such a situation. I wouldn't believe
that the United Nations General Assembly would validate it. It ought
to be possible to solve this matter while Australia has jurisdiction
on both sides of the Torres Strait. The Queensland Government however
will not come to the party. As the communique points out an
interdepartmental committee of Australian Government officials
recommended that there should be discussions between Australian
Government and Queensland Government officials last July. The
former Attorney-General, Senator Greenwood, made this
recommendation to the former Prime Minister in October. The former
Minister for External Territories, Mr Peacock, reiterated the
recommendation to the former Prime Minister in November. I was
attracted to the recommendation of Mr Morrison's predecessor, the
preceding Attorney, and I put the proposition to the Queensland
Premier, and he sees no merit in it.
Q. Mr Morrison, in view of what Mr Whitlam has just said and in
view of what Mr Somare has said that he is not prepared and doesn't
wish to speak to the Queensland Government, are you now prepared
to seek a meeting with Mr Bjelke-Petersen to put the views of
Mr Somare and the views Of the Government?
MR MORRISON: Relations with the State of Queensland don't fall within
my portfolio.
0. Not even on this subject?
MR MORRISON: I'll be involved in the coflSltations from the
Australian side but it wouldn't be a diretresponsibility of mine.
PRIME MINISTER; Gentlemen, on this matter, reference is very
frequently made to the Australian citizenship of the Torres Strait
Islanders. You will notice that Papuans of course are also
Australian citizens and will remain such until Papua New Guinea
becomes a sovereign state. The Chief Minister has pointed out
that his Government will be intent on safeguarding the interests of those
Australian citizens who reside on the islands in the Strait.
Q. Have you discussed the question of trans-migration of
these Australian citizens Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: We believe that there should be complete freedom
of movement by Australian citizens anywhere within Australian
jurisdiction. Q. Will you allow that for the Papuans into Australia, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER; There are Papuan Ministers who have asked
if they may visit the islands and we've said of course. Gentlemen,
some of you were three years ago up in Wewak with the Chief Minister
and me and I think some of you didn't at that time have sufficient
faith that we'd be holding the positions we now have.
CHIEF MINISTER: I don't think they did.