JON FAINE:
Prime Minister, good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
G’day, Jon.
JON FAINE:
As matters stand at the moment, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is on the front page of The Australian today in an interview with Greg Sheridan saying that he shares the concerns of Western leaders and wants to meet the challenge emerging from the Middle East. What do you want to do with that offering or invitation from Indonesia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we’ve got a very strong relationship with Indonesia. We’ve got a strong security and intelligence relationship with Indonesia. Australian police and counterterrorist experts have worked very closely with Indonesia over the last decade or so since the Bali bombings. We want that operation to continue and to strengthen and we think that it will continue and strengthen in the years ahead. So, I embrace what President Yudhoyono has said and I look forward to working with him over the next couple of months and his successor to ensure that we are both absolutely rock solid against the terrorist threat here in our region.
JON FAINE:
But is it simply inevitable that 20 or more journalists held hostage and an unknown number, but maybe as many as 80 humanitarian and foreign aid workers still held hostage by the Islamic State and their supporters, that they will face a similar fate to Jim Foley?
PRIME MINISTER:
I certainly hope that’s not the case, Jon, but we have to accept that the ISIL movement is as near to pure evil as we are ever likely to see, and what happened to that poor journalist was just barbaric. It was sickening, it was hideous, it was inhuman. But these people kill without compunction – they kill without compunction – and they exalt in their cruelty, posting all these things up on the internet because their aim is to strike fear into the hearts of their opponents.
JON FAINE:
Well, they’re succeeding aren’t they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look, as far as I’m concerned what they are succeeding in doing is strengthening and deepening the resolve of the Australian Government to do everything we reasonably can to protect our citizens.
JON FAINE:
What’s that? What can you reasonably do?
PRIME MINISTER:
As you know, Jon, a week or so back we announced $630 million in extra funding for our security agencies. We announced stronger legislation to ensure that we can deal with people returning from terrorist activities in the Middle East. We announced that we would be preparing legislation to ensure that we retain access to telecommunications data, so that we can properly monitor and, if necessary, prevent terrorist activity or potential terrorist activity. So, look, we are vigilant and we will be more vigilant in the days and weeks and months ahead. We’re also talking to our partners about what can usefully be done by way of humanitarian measures in the Middle East to try to ensure the ISIL advance is checked.
JON FAINE:
You had a meeting with some leaders of the Muslim community in Melbourne and Sydney and some refused to meet with you and that’s a matter for their community to work out amongst themselves. As matters stand this morning, we’ve heard about the need to build capacity and reach out to disaffected and possibly vulnerable young, in particular Muslim men, who may be seduced by the message coming from the extremists. What, if anything, are you interested in doing on that front?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, obviously the most important thing is to talk and that’s why I was disappointed that a small number of Islamic leaders – community leaders – I thought rather foolishly boycotted that meeting. I doubt that sort of thing will happen again because it’s so self-evidently petty to do that kind of thing. You can hardly complain that people aren’t talking to you then when you offer them a talk, say sorry we’re not coming. But I’ve got to say the spirit of the meetings that I had was excellent – it really was excellent. Sure, not everyone agrees with everything that I said and I dare say some continue to have some questions about aspects of government policy, but as one of the leading Imams said to me at the end of one meeting, we’re all part of Team Australia and you’re our captain. Don’t imagine that from time to time they wouldn’t want a different captain, but nevertheless that’s what he said, we’re all part of Team Australia and you’re our captain and frankly that is the attitude of the vast majority of Muslim people in this country.
JON FAINE:
Have you ever been told that there are people in the Muslim community who think that talking about Team Australia is precisely the problem rather than the solution?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the interesting thing about the phrase Team Australia is that it’s been very widely used by Bill Shorten, by Kevin Rudd, by all sorts of people over the years. By Bob McMullan, by Peter Cook. So look, I dare say not everyone would use the phrase, but I’ve used it and I’ll keep using it because I expect everyone to be on Team Australia.
JON FAINE:
Sure, and I understand that and the way that resonates perhaps with the audience here on the morning show on 774 ABC Melbourne is one thing, but the way it resonates with 30 per cent youth unemployed, many of them from migrant communities in Broadmeadows or Doveton, they might sneeringly turn around or whatever – quite sincerely turnaround – and say, well Tony Abbott I’m not being allowed to be part of Team Australia so you know where you can put and shove your Team Australia don’t you?
It’s not what I think; I’m trying to say that may be the reaction precisely for the people you want to target the most.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I understand that and look, if I’m an unemployed person, regardless of my ethnicity or my religion or my background, I may well think that my country is currently letting me down or that the world is currently not as good to me as I would like. That’s very, very understandable, but in the end what we need to do is remember that for all our imperfections here in Australia, we are a great country and everyone here should be striving in his or her own way to do whatever he or she can to build a better world. Maybe for some people that means going out and striving that little bit harder to get a job. Maybe for others it means being more conscious of people who are less fortunate than ourselves and doing a bit more. But I don’t think anyone is entitled to say that their country is against them or that their country is discriminating against them because no country on earth is more conscious than this one is, of the need to give everyone a fair go.
JON FAINE:
What about strengthening some of the community pillars and some of the glue that brings people together, Tony Abbott, and for a fraction of the amounts being spent on the military and security operations you could get enormous returns on a small investment to strengthen community ties.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if you’ve got any specific suggestions, Jon, I’m happy to have them. We do invest millions a year in reach out to various communities, some of which may feel marginalised and I’m not proposing to reduce that, I’m proposing to increase that. In the end, what I don’t want to see is any suggestion that our country is against some of its citizens. We’re not and I don’t want any suggestion that some of our citizens are against our country because however annoyed people might momentarily feel, I think that with only tiny, tiny exceptions, Australians of whatever ethnicity, culture or religion you like, are very much part of our team.
JON FAINE:
Totally understand, but I think there’s an enormous benefit even for those of us who are never going to have to confront face-to-face the threat – the existential threat – that this poses now to 20 more journalists and as many as 80 humanitarian aid workers. I hope that’s never one of my family, but I would like to see my community brought closer together even if there are some people around the edges who are attracted to all of that. There are enormous benefits regardless surely in taking a more than just security and strategic and military response to this.
PRIME MINISTER:
The point I keep making in all of my discussions with migrant groups is that you chose us. You chose us. You voted confidence in Australia that makes you first class citizens of your new home. You chose in our country in a way that the native born haven’t. You self-consciously and deliberately chose Australia in the way that someone who was born here hasn’t and that’s why you’ll never find me, you’ll never find this Government questioning the loyalty to Australia of our migrant communities.
JON FAINE:
But people choose to come to Australia – that doesn’t mean upon arriving that they shed like a snake shedding a skin, they don’t shed their identity once they arrive.
PRIME MINISTER:
And they’re not supposed to. We respect that people come to this country with a heritage and that heritage has helped to enrich our country over the years. We are a better country because people have come here from all over the world and added to us, but of course, once here people’s first loyalty is to Australia and we end up growing together. There’s a convergence that takes place once people come to Australia.
JON FAINE:
Can you bomb your way into success against the Islamic State?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that’s not to say that there aren’t some military measures which can be helpful and as you know, Jon, President Obama – who is hardly a hawk on these things – President Obama has commissioned airstrikes against ISIL. They appear to have been effective in stemming the ISIL advance and helping to protect the tens of thousands of people who were marooned on Mount Sinjar. Australia joined the humanitarian airdrops to Mount Sinjar. We’re talking to our partners, particularly the Americans about how we can continue to be helpful in Iraq.
JON FAINE:
Will we be committing military assets to this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look, we committed military aircraft to the humanitarian airdrop on Mount Sinjar last week. So, yes there are Australian military assets that are available to help.
JON FAINE:
What about combat assets?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, President Obama has been absolutely adamant from the beginning that he doesn’t envisage American combat troops on the ground and I think that’s a pretty sensible position and that’s our position as well.
JON FAINE:
Special Forces?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, combat troops. No one envisages Western combat troops on the ground in Iraq.
JON FAINE:
Not even covert operations?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Jon, we can go through the list and tick off each box in turn.
JON FAINE:
I guess my question is about how this is not a war that’s fought according to the recognised rules, protocols, and procedures of military engagement and so maybe we – you fight fire with fire – you match that approach and we have to do things differently too.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think that is a fair point, Jon. Look, we are talking to our partners, particularly the Americans about what we can do to usefully counter this movement in conjunction with the Iraqis, in conjunction with the Kurds, in conjunction with the Saudis, the Turks. I think you can be pretty sure that this ISIL movement has thoroughly alarmed not just people in the West watching that gruesome imagery yesterday, but this ISIL movement has thoroughly alarmed just about everyone in the Middle East and we are talking to all our partners. All our partners are talking to one another about what is the most effective response and one way or another this ISIL movement does need a response and it’s got to be a strong one.
JON FAINE:
Prime Minister, in the few minutes I might have left on your busy schedule this morning, I notice a distinct change of approach by the Abbott Government in relation to the budget impasse, and quite clearly to use a sporting analogy, you’ve moved a few through the interchange bench and put a different team out and a different coaching strategy as well.
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn’t entirely accept that characterisation. We stand by our Budget, Jon. We really do. We stand by our Budget. It’s the Budget we believe our country needs. It tackles Labor’s debt and deficit disaster and I’m still dismayed that having created the disaster, Labor hasn’t put up any solutions to the mess they created. But we accept, Jon, that we’ve got to get our Budget through the Senate or we’ve got to get much of it through the Senate. Yes, there’s up to $20 billion of savings that have gone through as part of the appropriations bills, but there’s a lot of other work that needs to be done through the legislative process.
JON FAINE:
Sure, but reliably or otherwise we often get insights into the inner conversations of the Abbott Government through the News Limited columnists and cheer squad, particularly in The Australian newspaper and there’s a clear line now emerging that well you’ve got most of your Budget through and maybe you should just abandon rather than negotiate over the things that are left.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we’re certainly not giving up on the things that we believe in – we’re not giving up on them at all. Now, we understand that quite properly you’ve got to get legislation through the Senate. So, we’re talking to the crossbenchers, Jon, about what might get through the Senate.
JON FAINE:
Talking to Clive Palmer’s so rewarding when you come to…
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, look, I absolutely accept that negotiations can be a very frustrating business.
JON FAINE:
Have you got a meeting scheduled with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t at this time.
JON FAINE:
Your Government representatives – Joe Hockey, anyone else?
PRIME MINISTER:
We’re talking. At every level people are talking. Who knows where those talks will ultimately get, but I am confident, Jon, that our major budget measures will largely get through the Senate eventually.
JON FAINE:
So there’s a hint there that you’ll give up on some of the too hard basket material. Are you going to do to Christopher Pyne and the university fee changes what you’ve done to some of the other unachievable budget measures – just abandon them?
PRIME MINISTER:
We haven’t given up on…
JON FAINE:
18C – abandoned.
PRIME MINISTER:
We haven’t given up on any of our budget measures, Jon.
JON FAINE:
Not yet, but is it coming?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we don’t give up on the things that our country needs and I note that no less a person than Glenn Stevens, the Reserve Bank Governor, said yesterday that what we were pursuing was a prudent and sensible strategy. He said, ‘I didn’t really think that the Budget was that draconian’. It’s not draconian, it’s necessary – it’s necessary – and many of the measures take effect gradually. It’s a Budget for building as well as for saving. It’s a Budget for playing to our strengths as well as for living within our means and there’s been an almost hysterical reaction to parts of the Budget, manipulated by the Labor Party of course. I think that the more the Budget is carefully considered, the more likely it is that most of it will go through.
JON FAINE:
And finally, the Royal Commission into sexual abuse is under scrutiny again. George Pell is giving video link evidence today and the Royal Commissioner’s saying they urgently need to know from you and your Government whether their time will be extended so they can meet all the now hundreds if not thousands of people who also want to go through the processes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure, and look, I’m very sympathetic to that and we’ve got a Cabinet consideration of this in the next couple of weeks and I’m confident that we will be able to respond to the Royal Commissioner’s wishes there because we want it to do its job. We’ve supported it every step of the way. We think that it’s a horrific business – that which is being investigated and exposed. It should finish its job and we ought to be in a position in the next few weeks to commit additional resources.
JON FAINE:
You’ve been generous with your time this morning and I’ve probably gone a bit over.
Thank you indeed.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you so much, Jon.
[ends]