Subjects: Sydney Airports; Very Fast Train; Government's response to McClure Reportl achievements in 2000
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………
CATTERNS:
By any reasonable assessment, you’d have to say this morning that the Howard Government has come in for a particularly nasty landing with its no decision announcement yesterday on the Sydney Airport and high speed train proposals. We’re joined now in the studio by the Prime Minister, John Howard. Good morning and welcome.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning and good to be with you.
CATTERNS:
The Telegraph’s front page this morning – I’m sure you’ve seen it, it has you in the cockpit of a plane with a headline screaming “Pontius Pilot”. Are you upset by that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I’m not upset. The reality is that no matter what decision we took we were going to get criticised. Doesn’t matter what you’d done on this: if we had said we’re going ahead with Badgery’s Creek the headline in the Telegraph would have been Badgery’s Bombed; if we’d have gone ahead with Kurnell it would have been Kurnell King Hit. I mean they’re the games of the headline writer. The reality is we have produced a plan that is sensible and fair. Kingsford Smith is operating a lot more efficiently now, as the Olympic Games demonstrated, than it did five or ten years ago. With Bankstown being developed as an overflow airport you do have a longer term strategy. There were always difficulties with Badgery’s Creek and whilst we have reserved the site, I personally don’t believe a second airport will ever be built at Badgery’s Creek.
CATTERNS:
I saw you quoted saying that last night. Nevertheless Mr Howard a lot of people are very, very cranky. You promised a decision. It was an unequivocal …
PRIME MINISTER:
We’ve made a decision …
CATTERNS:
… to decide on a second major airport.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we promised to make a decision on the future airport needs of Sydney and we believe the plan we have produced is the right way of handling the issue.
CATTERNS:
Can we clarify the plan? The Badgery’s option goes on ice. Bankstown expands and gets the overflow from Sydney.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
CATTERNS:
Is that not at best a holding pattern?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it’s not because the dynamics of airport operation change over time. Five years ago there were more extensive delays at Kingsford Smith Airport than what there are now. The delay factors, the more efficient operation of slots, the coming into service over the next ten or fifteen years of larger aircraft – only a few weeks ago you must have seen the re-equipment decision by QANTAS, a $9 billion investment in new large aircraft. All of those things are changing the dynamic and what we have done is to lay out a plan that is workable. What you are doing is you are expanding the capacity of an existing second airport in Sydney – namely Bankstown – over time the flying schools and many of the other activities can move to either Camden or Hoxton Park, but that will be a decision to be taken by the new owner of Bankstown Airport. Because what we’re going to do is sell Kingsford Smith separately from Bankstown, Hoxton Park and Camden and we’ll set up a competitive pressure, which you should do, between the two airports. And that can only be to the benefit of the industry and also to commuters.
CATTERNS:
And Mr Howard, is it the Government who upgrades the airport at Bankstown? Extends the runways and builds the terminal facilities or will it be upgraded only after it’s sold on?
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s something that we will discuss with potential buyers. There are different ways of doing it. You could for example make it a condition of sale that the upgrades be attended to by the purchaser and discount the price accordingly. Or alternatively we might choose to make a contribution. And of course they are things that we discuss with potential buyers. We are already aware of people who are interested in buying Bankstown Airport. The Government has been approached by a number of people. It is open of course to some of the smaller entrants into the airline industry such as Virgin and Impulse to express a particular interest in an airport like Bankstown. I’m not saying they will but it could well, in a commercial sense, be attractive to them, particularly in relation to some of the services that they operate using their smaller jet aircraft.
CATTERNS:
Will there be any kind of guarantee and condition of the sale, Mr Howard, guarantee that small airlines on regional routes won’t eventually be priced out of their landing slots at Sydney Airport and forced to use Bankstown Airport.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is an absolute guarantee. We’re not going to allow the price control regime operating at Sydney Airport to lapse.
CATTERNS:
But how can you guarantee that if you no longer own the airport?
PRIME MINISTER:
You’ve asked me a question. Can I just be allowed to answer it? We have said that it will not be allowed to lapse. Now that is the policy and that will remain. What we’re effectively doing, is we are grandfathering current access by regional airlines to Kingsford Smith. We are saying that the existing access will be maintained. We have said that in future if slots become available, preference will be given in the allocation to new applicants for those slots, of larger aircraft. And we’re going to have a discussion with the airlines to work out the seat level at which that determination will apply. But I want to say to your regional listeners, perhaps there aren’t any regional listeners at the moment,
CATTERNS:
You’d be amazed at the regions …
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m delighted to hear it, I’m just conscious this is a particular Sydney program, that your existing access to Kingsford Smith is guaranteed. That’s part of the arrangement. However, we’re going to put a ceiling on additional growth in that area so that there can be a gradual overflow into Bankstown. Now I think that is a very fair arrangement because many people argue that with a busy airport like Sydney, the very small planes should perhaps go elsewhere. Now we say that would be unfair on regional travellers because they depend on those small aircraft. And we have said existing access will be guaranteed. The future growth will be subject to the qualifications I’ve mentioned.
CATTERNS:
Guaranteed by law?
PRIME MINISTER:
Whatever is necessary. Let’s not have an argument. It’s going to be guaranteed. We’re prepared to look at any particular way of further guaranteeing it. I’m not going to get hung up about that. It will be guaranteed.
CATTERNS:
Mr Howard, the people of Bankstown, the Mayor of Bankstown, are not particularly happy with the idea at all – the extension of Bankstown airport. Were they consulted in any way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they were no more or less consulted than anybody else. The debate about Sydney Airport, as you infer and everybody knows, has been going on for years. No matter what we did we were going to make somebody unhappy. As I repeat, if we had taken another decision you’d have had the headlines that I mentioned. I mean that was just inevitable and it’s one of those things where we’re on a hiding to nothing no matter what decision we take. But we’ve taken the decision. We’ve laid out a medium-term plan for dealing with the issue and I think it’s the right decision.
CATTERNS:
What about the long-term plan though?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the long-term airport needs of Australia have to be taken into account, not just Sydney. I’m the Prime Minister of the whole country, I’m not just Prime Minister of Sydney. One of the things that is going to happen is that more people are going to choose other destinations for their first point of entry into Australia. Now I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing at all. There’s no law that says you must at all costs facilitate Sydney as the first point of entry into Australia. If over time people choose, more people choose to go into Brisbane or Melbourne or Cairns or Canberra, well so be it and as Prime Minister of the whole of Australia I don’t mind that at all.
CATTERNS:
You’re on 702 ABC Sydney. It’s 21 minutes to 9. My name’s Angela Catterns and our guest in the studio at the moment is Prime Minister, John Howard. Mr Howard, what about people getting to and from this new expanded Bankstown Airport. Are there any plans to upgrade the infrastructure?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it’s one of the things, Angela that will happen. Bear in mind you’re talking about nothing really changing at Bankstown for a number of years. I mean, you don’t just start having 737s flying in there next year. It’s going to take – we’ve got to sell it, we’ve got to attend to whatever environmental impact obligations there are. There’s got to be an extension of the runway and obviously issues such as additional road or rail infrastructure to support the movement of passengers to the central business district. That of course is something that will also be on the Government’s agenda and be discussed between the Government, the State Government and also the owner of the airport when the sale takes place. So remember that some of the traffic that will come into there will be people who live near that airport and you shouldn’t assume that everybody who might use it in the future will want transport into the central business district of Sydney.
CATTERNS:
Mr Howard I saw you last night on archival footage on TV, I am not sure how long ago it was, of you announcing a bold, new era, an exciting new era in train travel . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
I still think that is possible but . . .
CATTERNS:
Have you gone cold on that idea?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I haven’t but we never said at the beginning of this whole very fast train study, we never said there was going to be a government subsidy. I hear some spokesmen for the business community saying that the Government has pulled the rug out from under their feet, there was never a rug there in the first place. We always said that there would be no subsidy available from the Government and it would only have been possible to do the very fast train with a subsidy of between $1 billion and $2 billion. Now we looked at that very hard. I rather liked the idea of a very fast train, I still do. But you can’t justify spending $1 billion to $2 billion to subsidise a railtrack between Sydney and Canberra, we just couldn’t see the justification for that. It may be possible to justify some kind of subsidy depending on its size for a network that includes Sydney and Melbourne and Canberra and Brisbane and the east coast and we’re going to have a scoping study of that but we want to get the New South Wales, Victorian and Queensland Governments on board. But you couldn’t justify $1 billion to $2 billion of taxpayers money particularly when there was no evidence that the very fast train was going to make a material difference to the number of people wanting to use air transport between Sydney and Canberra. I mean if I had been told that the very fast train with a subsidy even of $2 billion was going to dramatically cut the demand for air traffic out of Kingsford Smith, I would have had a different view. But the evidence we had was that it wouldn’t. And it was reinforced with the arrival of the discount airline operators such as Virgin and Impulse. They have made air travel cheaper and that’s a good thing and therefore they have made travel by rail less attractive, less economic and therefore there’s a lesser case for a government subsidy of $1 billion to $2 billion.
CATTERNS:
The airport’s going to be sold off at a reported price of around $4 billion, couldn’t some of that money be earmarked for some kind of new fast train system?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it still wouldn’t reduce the cost. I mean just because you are selling something off it doesn’t, and incidentally that is not, that is used to retire debt, the only Budget benefit of that is that it reduces public debt interest payments, but you’re talking about $1 billion to $2 billion for a rail track between Sydney and Canberra which would make no dramatic impact on the evidence available to us on the demand for air travel between Sydney and Canberra. Because the sort of people who habitually use air travel between Sydney and Canberra are not necessarily the same people who would be attracted even by slightly lower rail fares, you’re dealing with largely different markets. And we looked at all of this. As I repeat, if I had thought, if I had have been persuaded that having the very fast train even with a big government subsidy would have really cut the demand for air movements out of Kingsford Smith Airport I would have grabbed it, but it didn’t. And that was one of its weaknesses.
CATTERNS:
Mr Howard during the course of our conversation a number of listeners have called, it seems to be you know a fairly common concern that if Bankstown is up and running that basically it enhances the so-called Bennelong Funnel, it effectively knocks out the east-west runway at Sydney airport . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that’s not . . .
CATTERNS:
And increases the . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me deal with that. You can, on the advice available to us you can have a significant enhancement of the number of movements, an increase in the number of movements that now take place out of Kingsford Smith through the use of Bankstown before you have any impact on the east-west runway. This came up during the course of our discussions and you are looking at a very significant increase before you have any impact on the east-west runway. I mean what has happened with, and people mention the Bennelong Funnel of course I am familiar with that because that’s the name of my electorate, and what we have done over the last five years is that we have spread the noise around by, and part of that has been achieved by reopening the east-west runway but also by the more intelligent use of flight paths. And whilst there is still noise over parts of my electorate and I have to say there will always be some noise over parts of my electorate, I am not unfamiliar with this as a local member, I am not unfamiliar with aircraft noise at all, but what we have tried to do is to spread it around and not just as the former government did dump it all into one narrow part of Sydney. And I think we have achieved a lot of success and I know for a fact . . .
CATTERNS:
I would agree and I think people have learned to live with it now . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes and . . .
CATTERNS:
And the callers were saying they fear that if Bankstown comes into operation that people are going to have to carry more of the burden.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well as I said at the beginning of the programme, no matter what you do with something like this some group is going to be unhappy. I mean I repeat if we’d have been, if we had said we’re going ahead hell for leather with Badgery’s Creek, you’d have had people ringing up from western Sydney saying now for the first time in our lives we’re going to be blighted by aircraft noise. Now it’s a question of trying to reach a decision which is, you know meets the airport needs, but also recognises that economic efficiency is not the only consideration that governments have to take into account.
CATTERNS:
On other matters Mr Howard, we’re expecting Jocelyn Newman’s resignation from Cabinet this afternoon after she announces the Government’s response to the McClure Report. Is she intending to stay on in the Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I . . .
CATTERNS:
You’re not expecting it?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not expecting any resignations this afternoon.
CATTERNS:
The speculation is that the Government will announce financial incentives for people to get off welfare and return to work. Is that the case?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we’re going to get from Jocelyn a directional statement in response to the McClure Report. It’s going to be a very fair statement. It will pick up the main thrust of McClure’s recommendations. We’re not going to impose difficult burdens on older, unemployed people nor on disabled people. We are going to provide some additional assistance for sole parents, particularly when their children are approaching school leaving age so that the sole parents can be helped to improve their opportunities to re-enter the workforce. But it’s not going to be punitive and I’ve never seen welfare reform as being an exercise in cost-cutting. And there’s not really anybody in the Government, despite some of the reports I read, there’s not really anybody in the Government who wants to impose unreasonable burdens on people on welfare, but we do support the principle of mutual obligation. We do believe that if people are able to give something back in return for social security support than it’s not unreasonable that they be asked to do so.
CATTERNS:
And is it reasonable to speculate there’ll be a bit of money announced this afternoon? Additional spending on those things?
PRIME MINISTER:
No we’re not going to go into specific amounts, no. We are going to make it clear however that this will be a priority in the Budget and we are going to make it very clear that welfare reform is not a cost-cutting exercise and in a way you may have to make an additional up-front investment in order to secure the longer term benefits of reform.
CATTERNS:
Just very briefly Mr Howard, apart from the uproar over the airport decision, things are looking pretty good for you right now, petrol prices are down, the ALP is in so-called if I may quote deep doo-doo over electoral rortings – are you tempted to go for an early election?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don’t, I am not tempted at all. We’re just going to go on taking decisions and governing as best we can. We do finish the year, the country finishes the year in good shape. That’s very important. We have tackled decisions. We believe in addressing issues and taking decisions and moving on. And we’ve ended the year with the biggest Defence White Paper in decades. We’re going to give a directional statement on social security. We’ve dealt with the Sydney airport issue. And early in the new year we’ll be dealing with innovation and I’ll be making a statement early in the New Year responding to a number of reports the Government has received recently in relation to matters of innovation and science and related issues and that will be I believe very warmly received throughout the Australian community.
CATTERNS:
So you’re not going for an early election just yet? Are you heading back up to Hawk’s Nest for your summer holidays?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am planning to spend a few weeks in Sydney and we may go there later on, but having travelled all around Australia and all around the world frequently over the last twelve months, Sydney over the Christmas period and doing nothing but reading and watching cricket if it lasts long enough and playing golf has enormous appeal.
CATTERNS:
Those three day tests are a bit of a rip off aren’t they? The suggestions been made Mr Howard amongst my colleagues that perhaps you should consider appointing John Newcombe as our next ambassador to Washington now he’s out of a job as Davis Cup Captain and we know you think . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
He has a close relationship, he’s a great bloke and he’s done good things for us in the past, it’s an interesting suggestion. But no, we have a very good ambassador there now and he’s only just taken up his post.
CATTERNS:
Mr Howard it’s been very good to have you in the studio, thank you so much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]