Subjects: Fuel prices; road funding; labelling laws; floods; Business Activity Statement; cricket.
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………
MILLER:
8 minutes past 8 and joining us live on the line now from Melbourne, Prime Minister John Howard. Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hi John, good to be with you again.
MILLER:
Good to talk to you too. Well the single largest issue that’s dominated the airwaves here in Brisbane, and I’m sure round the nation in recent times, is being the price of fuel. Yesterday Kim Beazley was saying that your Government should roll down the windows of the limos and listen to what people are saying. Are you hearing what I’m hearing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Kim Beazley and I drive around in the same cars so I mean let’s not sort of have silly nonsense from him about limos. I’m listening, very carefully, and I know that people don’t like the high price of petrol, that high price is due overwhelming to the world price of crude oil having trebled in the last 18 months. That’s the reason why petrol is so expensive, compared with what it normally is in Australia. Now I don’t like that at all but overwhelmingly it’s not anything that the Federal Government can do anything about. We could reduce the excise but to really make an impression you would have to reduce it by a large amount and we have made the judgment that to reduce to by a really noticeable amount of 5 or 10 cents a litre, you’re looking at, well for 5 cents that $1.7 billion a year, 10 cents a litre is double that. Now we can’t literally afford to do that, we have got some more flexibility in our budget, because we’re going to have a bigger surplus than we expected, and we’ve decided that we’re going to put some more money into road funding. Now we make the judgment that it’s a better investment for the country’s long term future to improve our roads than it would be to tweak the excise level to the tune of 1 or 1 ½ cents a litre, which would barely be noticed and indeed could be engulfed by a world fluctuation in price the following day, whereas an invest in roads is something that will last for years, and heaven knows we can always do with more money being spent on our roads, particularly in a big state like Queensland. Now that’s a judgement call, some people will agree with me and some will disagree and like all things that we decide to do I’ll accept the judgement of the people when the time comes for an election. But you are elected to make decisions and to allocate priorities, we believe that spending money on roads is a better long term investment of the money, additional money, we’re going to commit to roads than using that same amount of money for a relatively small reduction in the level of excise.
MILLER:
Interesting to see research yesterday from the motoring clubs though, and I mean we’re talking about clubs that represent 6 million members were surveyed and they say that 19% of the respondents to the survey wanted better roads, 68% wanted lower fuel excise.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think lower, lower petrol prices… without knowing, John, whether they were asked how much lower in price they wanted the petrol to be, by way of comparison, it’s very hard to attach a great deal of significance to that survey. If you say to somebody, in present circumstances, do you want cheaper petrol, I mean we all say yes, I want cheaper petrol, but most motorists when you talk about cheaper petrol now they want petrol cheaper to the tune of 5, 10, 15 cents a litre, which it was only a couple of years ago, or 18 months ago, but you can’t go back to that level without a fall in the world price, there’s no way any Government can afford to take it back that much. So that survey is not surprising but it really doesn’t take the argument much further because unless you actually say to somebody would you prefer an x-cent a litre reduction in the price of petrol, or the same amount of money to be spend on road funding you don’t really get a proper comparison. But politicians are often accused of being poll driven, so in the end we have to make a judgment as what is the better long term investment. We think putting extra money into roads, and we’ll discuss it in Cabinet this morning, and the Deputy Prime Minister and I will be making an announcement quite soon and we’ll decide today when we make the announcement. But we think that is a better long term investment and particularly in rural Australia where the relatively depressed conditions for many people in rural Australia mean that rate revenues for local councils are very low and they have less money to repair roads. Now we already provide councils with money for roads and we are going to boost that funding, we’ll give the details of it in a few days time, but we think that is a better use of the money. Now some of your listeners with agree with me and some will disagree but in the end we make a conscientious decision that it’s better to invest the money in this fashion than in a relatively small reduction in the price of petrol. Which although that would itself be welcome, I understand that, we don’t think the long term benefit of that is as great as the long term benefit of spending the same amount of money, so to speak, it may not be exactly the same, the same amount of money on road funding. Now that’s just a question of judgment and priorities and if in the end the Australian public makes the decision that I’ve got it wrong, well like every other decision I take I will suffer the consequences of that, but I can only say to your listeners that we have conscientiously looked at this and we do think it’s a better investment to spend the money on road funding because good roads continue for a long time, a minor adjustment in the price of petrol can disappear overnight.
MILLER:
Mr Howard, what my listeners, and I’m sure many Australians find constantly perplexing and annoying is the fact that they can go to work in the morning and come home and there’s a …
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m the same, I drove, I had a game of golf on the weekend and I drove from one part of Sydney, I drove through my electorate and there were many variations in price along the way and that’s always been there I think part of it you have to accept as just marketing strategies, people and oil companies, those that have direct ownership of sites and those that have franchise arrangements, things will vary, but you’ve always had that price competition. And in the long run that the motorist does benefit from that, I’m quite sure if you had the same price everywhere you would get greater potential for exploitation.
MILLER:
Well let’s look at the, just briefly if we may, the price of LPG and diesel, which of course is sending many small transport operators down a short road…
PRIME MINISTER:
I am, I mean I utterly disapprove of blockades, utterly, and won’t in any circumstances support them because they interfere with the enjoyment of life and the conduct of business by other Australians, however I do understand the difficulties of many of these owner drivers, it’s tough. Now the price of LPG and diesel has gone up and you can’t, with the heavy trucks, you can’t really blame our taxing policies in relation to diesel because we’ve cut the price of the excise on diesel by 24 cents a litre in our tax policy and most of these very heavy trucks would be eligible for that assistance, in fact all of them, so that’s not really an issue. The world price of LPG and the world price of diesel has gone up My advice is that it’s in part a function of the fact that you need a heavier crude oil and the cost of heating in the northern hemisphere in the winter is having an affect on availability and that is pushing up the price. But it is once again a function of the world prices moving around and particularly in relation to diesel, we have in fact made it 24 cents a litre cheaper than it would have otherwise have been. So it’s not sustainable for people to say that the difficulty, which I acknowledge, that these owner drivers and drivers generally are having in the, in the heavy transport industry, I can’t really accept that that is a result of Government’s taxation policy, quite the reverse. In fact the diesel would have been a hell of a lot dearer if our tax package hadn’t got through, and if the Labor Parties views on tax reforms had prevailed they’d be paying 24 cents a litre more than what they’re paying now.
MILLER:
I talked to people who move around Asia a fair bit and they say that in places like Jakarta you are paying the equivalent of 25 cents a litre Australian for fuel there and they say well why is it so cheap there if they are being impacted upon by the same world parity pricing that we are.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they may have the very heavy consumer subsidy, I don’t know off-hand but that could well be the reason, but I don’t think we should get into too many comparisons of the Australian and Indonesian economies I don’t think it’s very sustainable for people to just pick one isolated thing like that and say why can’t we do this, perhaps one of the reasons why we don’t have consumer subsidies in this country to that extent is an explanation as to why our economy is so strong.
MILLER:
Sure …
PRIME MINISTER:
I might equally say in Great Britain you’re paying $2.20 and 75 cents a litre goes in tax.
MILLER:
Yeah well mind you it’s a hell of a lot easier to drive from London to Brighton than it is from Brisbane to Sydney if you know what I mean.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, but that still doesn’t obliterate the price, the price differential, I mean there is just no comparison. Petrol is overwhelmingly much dearer in Europe than it is in Australia We have the third or fourth cheapest in the world, I think the United States, Canada and slightly New Zealand is a bit cheaper, but ours is a lot cheaper then Europe, but in the end it doesn’t really matter, it’s how it compares with what you’d like it to be in Australia that really matters.
MILLER::
Yes you can hardly come home on a plane with a jerry can full of petrol.
PRIME MINISTER:
No you can’t John.
MILLER::
No.
PRIME MINISTER:
Haven’t tried it, but I don’t think I would get away with it.
MILLER:
Don’t think so either. Prime Minister let’s get onto roads though. Realistically we’ve had figures reported of this package being worth $1 billion. Given that a key point of it, and I know this is being discussed in Cabinet today will be this Western ringroad one of the freeways in Sydney. How much is actually going to be left? I mean I did have a fellow from . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I say in relation to the Western Orbital, that is in a sense separate from what we’re talking about by way of a new injection of money. There’s already enough, I am not giving any secrets away to say there was already enough money in the Budget to cover the Western Orbital. Because that Western Orbital is a national highway and the Federal Government under the agreement that was worked out years ago when the Labor Government was in power and which by, we by and large have continued because there are elements of it that are quite sensible. That Western Orbital is regarded as a national highway but I think you have to put that aside. You can rest assured as a Queensland audience that we’re not going to use all of the additional money that we’re allocating for roads on one particular project like that. The idea is to inject more money into the, particularly into rural and local roads. It’s very important to what you might call the grassroots of road funding and road maintenance. So don’t be concerned as a Queensland interviewer or a Queensland audience that it’s all going to be burnt up by one particular project in Sydney.
MILLER:
Alright. Now the other issue that has taken a lot of attention in recent times has been the protection of the entitlement of workers when companies go belly up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes. We have introduced a scheme. We’re the first Federal Government to have actually introduced a scheme and we’re waiting on State Governments to match it.
MILLER:
So, the situation …
PRIME MINISTER:
We have a scheme and where we fund up to a certain safety net level, we expect State governments to match our money and I’m amazed that Labor Governments all around the country aren’t willing to match it. I mean, Federal Labor had 13 years to fix this problem and didn’t do so and at a State level my understanding is that none of the State Governments are matching our scheme – which I’m amazed at. But they still say it’s not adequate. Well, it would be a lot more adequate if they matched it wouldn’t it?
MILLER:
Yes, well indeed it probably would be. Alright, lets move on again to another issue and that is food labelling. Cabinet is today deciding whether or not to support new labelling laws. What’s your stand on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Cabinet’s got to discuss it. I’m not going to pre-empt the discussion of my colleagues. There was a discussion and provisional agreement at the Ministerial meeting involving the Health Ministers from the Australian States, the Commonwealth and New Zealand and we’ll be having a look at that. There is some concern amongst people in small business that the cost burden of complying with the new rules is not justified by the consumer benefit and that’s something we have to have a look at. The other issue, incidentally, that we’ll be discussing today is the impact of the floods over a third of New South Wales. It’s really in desperate straits. And the Deputy Prime Minister, whose own electorate and whose own property is affected, will be leaving Cabinet at lunch time today to go to Gunnedah and the surrounding areas on behalf of the Federal Government. We’ll be looking at the respective responsibilities of the New South Wales and Commonwealth Governments. This of course is an area where governments must always work together - no politics when you have something of this order. There are standing arrangements between the State governments and the Commonwealth concerning natural disasters and at certain levels there’s a contribution from the State and then once it gets beyond a certain point, the Commonwealth weighs in. It’s a long standing arrangement and it works very effectively. We’ll be having a look at whether there’s anything additional that the Commonwealth ought to be doing. But I want to say how concerned I am about the impact of these floods on the lives of so many of our fellow Australians and it’s just a reminder of what a hard life it is in the country. And the heart rending situation that you’ve got people close to the Queensland/New South Wales border in Queensland desperately wanting the rain and not too far away it’s been raining excessively. And some farmers in the wheat area of Northern New South Wales have now had three years where their incomes have been wiped out and their crops destroyed by natural disasters. It’s a very heart rending business.
MILLER:
Well it certainly is as I commented and it puts you in mind of the famous poem – droughts and flooding rains?
PRIME MINISTER::
That’s right and there’s nothing anybody can really do about a natural disaster of this order except help in the best way that you can. And, on behalf of the rest of the country to say to the people who are affected, we are concerned. We do have arrangements to provide some relief and we’re looking at whether there are other things that we can do. But I really feel for them and I think all Australians do.
MILLER:
Yes, we certainly do. Now earlier on the programme this morning I did ask listeners to phone in with any questions that they might have for you and you won’t be surprised that most of them were about fuel. But there’s one here that may be a little bit cheeky, but let me put it to you, it says has the Prime Minister seen a Business Activity Statement form and if so would he be able to fill it in?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly hope I would be able to fill it in. I’ve seen the form. I haven’t filled one in because I don’t have a business. I used to have a business when I was in private practice as a solicitor before I went into Parliament. I employed people, I knew what paying workers’ compensation premiums and making provision for overheads was all about so I am not unfamiliar. My first job was in small business, my father’s garage serving petrol. So, of course I am very familiar and the price of petrol was a sensitive issue then, probably a bit more sensitive at the moment. But John I haven’t had to fill a form in, but I’ve seen the form. Can I say in relation to the Business Activity Statement, we’ll be looking to see whether it can be simplified. This is the first sort of big return people have had to put in under the new system and if there is a way of simplifying it and meeting the requirements for the new system we will simplify it there is no merit at all. But it is a new system and I do understand that it does involve adjustment. And I make it very plain to people that where fine tuning and adjustments and simplification can occur both in relation to this form and indeed in any other aspect of the new system we won’t be reluctant to do that. It doesn’t represent any retreat from what we’ve done, it’s just commonsense. If we can make the system work in a simpler fashion than we will do so and we will listen to people and I will over the course over the next few weeks be talking to a lot of representatives of small business groups and if there are ways we can simplify it and guess there are, we will do so.
MILLER:
So it’s a matter of fact that the Government’s going to be open-minded on the issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well open-minded on simplification, on fine-tuning. We’ve put out in relation to some of the other things in the tax package that are yet to be legislated, we put out an exposure draft. We’re anxious to hear people’s views and that’s the reason . . . a sensible government will always do that. We’re not saying that everything about the new tax system is so perfect that we’re not even going to consider simplifying the form if it can be. Now it’s a new system and the first encounter with it is difficult, I understand that. I don’t pretend for a moment that it’s not, that it will be easier as time goes by because people will be more accustomed to it but if there are ways in which we can make it still easier by simplification let me assure your listeners we will do so, we won’t muck around on that. There won’t be any pride of authorship about the first form.
MILLER:
All right, well there’s also been a suggestion this morning, I heard it in our news at 8 o’clock that when Treasurer Costello visits Goondiwindi in the next day or so he should go by road not by air. Do you think that would be a good idea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look that’s a matter for him. Can I just say that Peter is very understanding of the difficulties of people in country Australia. He’s been a strong advocate of policies that help country people. He was a very strong advocate naturally along with myself and John Anderson of the twenty-four cent a litre reduction in the excise on diesel which is of enormous benefit to people in the country. But the question of his travel arrangements are really a matter for him, I can’t, I don’t presume to micromanage the travel arrangements of my ministers.
MILLER:
All right. Prime Minister we’re almost out of time but I can’t let you go without asking you this – how big a belting do you think the Windies are going to get in the first test here on Thursday?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the indications are that we will win easily but I do remember forty years ago in the lead-up to that most memorable of all cricket series, the 1960/61 Series which had the never to be forgotten tied test in Brisbane. I remember going to a game between the West Indies and New South Wales at the Sydney Cricket Ground and the West Indies lost badly to New South Wales and I was there with my eldest brother and both of us sort of, we turned to each other and said, gee this is not going to be a very exciting series is it? And it turned out to be the most exciting ever. Now I don’t think history is quite going to repeat itself, but you’d never know. They are a mercurial group of players, they have a great capacity to surprise. But against that we have an incredibly confident team. Steve Waugh is a marvellous captain, he really is and it’s got a lot of depth, a lot of talent that team, it’s just brimming over with talent. So you’d have to say that we’re in a very strong position but the Windies are perfectly capable of, to use the boxing saying “coming off the canvas”.
MILLER:
All right Prime Minister thank you very much for your time this morning and we look forward to doing it again soon.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]