MARGETSON:
The Prime Minister joins us this morning. John Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
MARGETSON:
Why did you intervene in this matter? What exactly are you asking the Chief Minister to do?
PRIME MINISTER:
I want this project to go ahead or the expansion of it to go ahead because it will be very good for the Territory and very good for the country.
MARGETSON:
It's hard to see why it would initially be good for the country. Most of the workers are flown in for the Territory. The company is owned overseas, the Territory taxpayers are providing $100million in power costs. The company has never paid a cent in royalties in 11 years. What benefit is that to local Territorians?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we get enormous export income. You ask me what benefit is there for the nation, there is additional export income and when companies export more and make higher profits, they pay more tax. And bearing in mind that the Federal Government, through the GST payments system finances a very large part of the Budget of the Territory as well as the states, and where we provide lots of other payments as well, it stands to reason that if companies do well, they make bigger profits, they pay more tax.
MARGETSON:
So the reason that we would divert a river in McArthur River is to improve our taxation office...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, that's not the case and I didn't say that. The reason you would divert the river in an environmentally sustainable fashion would be to allow the expansion of what you yourself acknowledged in your introduction was one of the largest zinc mines in the world and that will provide not only jobs for people who you describe as being flown in but it will also provide employment opportunities both direct and indirect for local people as well and then on top of that it will provide export income for the country. If you adopt the attitude that is implicit in the attitude of those that don't want this expansion to go ahead then you are arguing in effect that mining operations generally are not beneficial for this country. Now everybody acknowledges that Australia is going through a very prosperous time at the moment, one of the reasons, not the only reason by any stretch of imagination, but one of the reasons we are doing very well at the present time is that we have a booming mining industry and I can't for the life of me see why we would want to put the mockers on that, why we would want to prevent the proper expansion of an operation subject to all of the safeguards and protections can be there and my understanding is that the Northern Territory Minister for Natural Resources, Marion Scrymgour has provided advice to the Minister for Mines and Energy that the company's amended proposal satisfies engineering requirements and that any environmental risks, certain environmental risks rather, should be addressed through stringent conditions. In other words, a Minister in the Territory Government is arguing the same way as I am.
MARGETSON:
Marion Scrymgour has been saying that the mine management plan is the one that is up for discussion, current Mines Minister Chris Natt saying we've got to address those mine management issues, they're the only ones that we will address. Do you feel that you are trying to apply pressure, unnecessary pressure?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am expressing a view because it is in the national interest that this country continue, in an appropriate way, to be welcoming to mining operations and I will always argue for jobs and expansion and exports anywhere in Australia. This is not just something which is of concern to the Territory, it's something that has a national connotation as well and the reason I wrote to the Chief Minister was that I wanted there to be no doubt as to where the Commonwealth Government stood. Now the Territory Government has a role in this and I'm respectful towards that role, but I think it is about time a decision were taken and that we got on with determining what was going to happen.
MARGETSON:
The original approval for that mine was fast tracked under the Keating Government in the '90s as a push once again to speed up mining development. Environmentalists say that that resulted in approvals being given that were irreversible before a lot of environmental information was available. Why risk taking the process back there and rushing it through again, why not just wait patiently to see this process run its natural course?
PRIME MINISTER:
We're not rushing it through, I'm not trying to eliminate procedures that should be followed, I'm just arguing that a decision should be taken because the matter has been under consideration now for quite a long time, quite a long time and there are some environmentalists that will never be satisfied with decisions taken in relation to mining. There are some environmentalists who just don't believe in any mining and no matter what you do, not matter what conditions you impose they will argue it's not enough, because they don't really believe in it. Now I don't think as a nation we can afford that kind of approach and I believe that procedures have been followed, there are conditions that can be imposed, I'm not arguing against the imposition of those conditions, I'm not arguing to short circuit any procedures, I'm just putting a view to the Territory Government that it's in the interests of the Territory, it's in the interests of the nation that this expansion be allowed and I think it would be great, if I could finish, it would be a great shame if it didn't take place.
MARGETSON:
It's hard to argue though that it would be something good for the Territorians. The company as I say hasn't paid royalties in 11 years, the Treasury here predicts it won't pay any for years to come, why would we want to take up this mine, expand the mine with such limited local benefit despite the fact that if could have an overall national benefit in terms of ...
PRIME MINISTER:
The Territory is part of the nation. Anything that adds to the national wealth adds to the aggregate wealth of all parts of the country. You can't look at these things just in terms of its impact only on a particular part, but I don't even accept though the proposition that there aren't benefits. If there is development work undertaken there will be direct and indirect job benefits, there will be direct and indirect local small business benefits, there has to be because of the increased activity, it stands to reason that if a mine expansion is going on there will be generated additional activity which will flow through to the local community.
MARGETSON:
If the government doesn't approve the expansion of the mine and the Territory Government decides that it's not in our interests, would you make any move to override that as some legislation have been overridden before?
PRIME MINSTER:
Let's not start talking about that. I am quite certain that the Territory Government will address this issue in a sensible fashion, I am putting my view, I am doing this interview because you've asked me to and I don't want there to be any doubt as to what our position is, but I am simply saying that it's in everybody's interests that the project, or the expansion rather, of the project go ahead, and I don't want there to be any doubt in the minds of Australians living in the Northern Territory as to where the Federal Government stands on the issue.
MARGETSON:
Twenty past ten, 105.7 ABC Darwin, right across the Territory, 1300 057 222, we'll take your calls on Mr Howard's statements today. Something that we could also move on to Prime Minister is the Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough, he's described Aboriginal permit systems as ineffective, anachronistic. He's claimed that the system has helped create a monopoly of silence over substance abuse and violence, do you support Mal Brough and his plans to change the permit system here in the Territory?
PRIME MINSTER:
Yes I do. I think Mr Brough is a very good Indigenous Affairs Minister, I think he understands the need to cut through some of the structures that have been artificially created over the years, and deliver assistance to people who really need it. In the process of course he's upset some people, but most Australians are uncomfortable with the permit system, most Australians operate on the view that providing they are going about their business and their life in a lawful fashion, they should have the right to move freely around the country, subject of course to respecting the right to private property, and I think Mr Brough is speaking for most Australians in expressing those reservations.
MARGETSON:
So you are saying that indigenous Australians shouldn't receive any special treatment?
PRIME MINSTER:
I think indigenous Australians should as far as possible become part of the mainstream of the community. The future for indigenous Australians lies in them sharing the benefits and the bounty that this country has to offer and the more and more they are segmented, the more and more they are kept separate and apart and treated separately and apart from the rest of the community, the less likely that is to occur. Now that doesn't mean to say they shouldn't have particular programmes to address their disadvantage, of course they should, I have always argued for that, but the goal must be that they become part of the mainstream of the Australian community, respecting of course their right to preserve their particular culture, and particular practices, consistent with their membership of the mainstream of the Australian community. That is a fairly simple proposition, nobody wants indigenous people to jettison their Aboriginality, but if they are to enjoy the employment, health and educational opportunities of the broader Australian community, they must participate in that broader community.
MARGETSON:
So you are saying that if you scrap those, if you scrap the current permit system, that's helping indigenous Australians move closer to the mainstream of Australia?
PRIME MINSTER:
I think it is removing a barrier, both real and perceived.
MARGETSON:
Twenty-three past ten, John Howard is with us, he is the Prime Minister of Australia in case you've never heard of him, I am sure you have, there's plenty of things to talk about, including today North Korea, Prime Minister, what's your reaction? I believe the Ambassador from North Korea will be spoken to by Alexander Downer today?
PRIME MINSTER:
Yes my reaction is the same as everybody else's, that this is a defiant, impudent act by North Korea, it could be dangerous for the region, there has to be a maximum, international response in a diplomatic way, this is a test for the United Nations. We are always being told by our critics that we don't use the United Nations enough. Well let's see the United Nations act in relation to North Korea. Let's see how effective the United Nations can be. What do I hope? I hope that the combined diplomatic pressure of the United Nations, with the full support of the United States, Britain, France, China, Russia, who are the permanent members of the Security Council and all other nations, and certainly Australia is part of it, can bring to the North Koreans the reality that the rest of the world regards them as behaving in a diplomatic way as the international outlaw. And that they should recognise that. I mean North Korea is a desperately impoverished country and if North Korea devoted more of its attention to the immediate day-to-day living needs of its people, rather then engaging in investment in the development of missiles and nuclear power, it would be better for her people and better for the region.
MARGETSON:
John Howard the Reserve Bank this morning announced interest rates staying on hold, is that good news for you as a government?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm more interested in its impact on the Australian people. I, like everybody else, respect the job that the Reserve Bank has done in managing monetary policy. We always like to see interest rates kept at reasonable levels, they'll always be lower under a Coalition Government, than under a Labor Government and the history of the last 20 years demonstrates that very clearly and I don't know that beyond that I want to say anything other then that they are by historical standards quite low. They reached 17 per cent when Mr Keating was in charge of the finances of the country and they're now sitting at about, what, on the market for a housing loan, about what... seven and half, seven and three quarters...
MARGETSON:
And a cash rate of six per cent, you may well see the cash rate up by the November when the Reserve Bank meet again. I mean the inflation figures are released towards the end of this month. Are you happy to see, maybe a small rise, a quarter per cent rise....
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not going to speculate. Let's just leave that to the Reserve Bank. It will make a decision based on the data that's available. The key driver is inflation. The Australian economy is experiencing some inflationary pressure, although if the price of oil continues to remain lower - and I'm not saying it will because that's governed by circumstances beyond my control - if the price of oil does remain lower then that will feed through into a continually lower price for petrol and that can have an impact on reducing costs throughout the whole of the economy. But one thing feeds on another. The unambiguously good news at the moment is that the world price of oil has come down. Now I'm not saying it'll stay down - I hope it does - but for so long as it stays down, well then the price of fuel will be lower and that is very good news because not only...
MARGETSON:
It's good news for Territorians because we're paying a hell of a lot more....
PRIME MINISTER:
I know you are but relatively speaking you'll be paying less than what you've been paying before, although what you are paying now is higher than what people in many parts of Australia pay. I acknowledge that but I mean everything is relative - and you know that - and therefore if there is a fall then that fall will be reflected throughout the whole country.
MARGETSON:
Twenty-seven past 10, last thing I would just bring up Prime Minister is the confusion over the Solomon Islands, over whether the Australian lawyer, Julian Moti, has his position as the Solomon's Attorney-General revoked, can you confirm whether Julian Moti has had his commission withdrawn?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't speak for the Solomon Islands Government. I think there is confusion but it's confusion within the jurisdiction of the Solomon Islands Government. We have a very simple attitude in relation to Mr Moti and that is that there are certain offences with which he's been charged and he should be brought to justice to answer those charges. They're very serious charges and Mr Downer speaks for me and speaks for the entire Australian Government when he says that he should be brought to justice. He shouldn't be harboured in a High Commission in another country - that is quite inappropriate - and we'll continue to argue so. But clearly whether he's going to remain as the Attorney-General in the Government of the Solomon Islands is a matter for the Government of the Solomon Islands - I don't speak for it and would be inappropriate for me to be making declarations as to his status in the Government of a foreign country.
MARGETSON:
(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Well diplomatic, obviously, and Mr Downer is very much across it and he'll be continuing in different ways to bring about a situation where this man faces the charges made against him.
MARGETSON:
Mr Howard we have got, just a minute left, are you 'Walking to Work' on Friday?
PRIME MINISTER:
You bet.
MARGETSON:
As always?
PRIME MINISTER:
I always walk to...we'll I'll be walking not....I walk before I go to work. I walk every day. I will be doing that again on Friday morning and I'll be encouraging people to either walk to work or walk before they work, or even after they work. It doesn't matter when you do it as long as you walk and if you walk half an hour or so a day, as many days in the week as possible, it's as good a boost for your health as I think you can possibly find.
MARGETSON:
Prime Minister thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
You're welcome.
[ends]