SMITH:
Good afternoon Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good afternoon Chris. Good to talk to you again.
SMITH:
Thank you very much for your time and remembering I might add. A mate of mine, David Penberthy, runs the Telegraph, as you know. He and I had a discussion about you at the beginning of this year, about when you were planning to bow out.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes.
SMITH:
And we were commenting on your skills in the top job. We were both remarking on your uncanny ability to stand on your feet in Parliament, at the podium for press conferences and of course here on interviews, and how unmatched it actually is in modern day politics. Now without trying to crawl, you actually knock'em dead. Just a question, curious I am, is this a trained skill, is it something you've developed or do you practice at home with your wife?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't practice. I guess over the years I have learnt increasingly to talk not from a prepared text. I don't like talking from a prepared text. I do it sometimes if I've got a major address to make to Parliament that has a lot of detail and I have to get everything absolutely spot on, but most of the speeches I deliver, and I saw David last night at John Anderson's testimonial dinner, most of the speeches I deliver, I deliver from headings or completely off the cuff, I don't read them. And I think you have better audience contact. You can see if the audience is going to sleep if you're not reading the speech.
SMITH:
Look I don't want to throw stones at anyone else, but your opposite recently read from a prepared speech, and has done that quite often recently, and I think it's a clever skill to have, anyway. A couple of significant questions before we get onto today's news and before we get to callers. Barbecues, do you stab your snags?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I do.
SMITH:
Well you shouldn't, you know that don't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Alright, well, okay, I know some people say that. But you asked me what I do and one of my many failings, it'll probably turn up in question time now that I've made that boo boo.
SMITH:
Stop stabbing your snags.
PRIME MINISTER:
Alright I'll do that.
SMITH:
Fathers Day, anything big planned?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I'll be coming back from the Liberal Party or the Coalition launch in Queensland and I hope to spend Fathers Day, the evening, with my wife and two of my three children. My third child is still living in Washington, but I'll no doubt talk to him over the weekend. But nothing particular other than just a family get together, which we always do for these observances and it's very nice to be able to do it, then I'll be off to Canberra that night.
SMITH:
I ask the question because I'm just wondering, Fathers Day would be a day that I would prefer to have off, which I do. Do you have any days off where you tell your staff, fend for yourselves, I'm gone?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well never quite like that. You can't ever be off the job in the position I have. I have times when I can do something other than work. I try and play golf every few weeks and it's about only every few weeks. I'm not very good at it but I find that very enjoyable and that's why I find walking each morning so incredibly important to getting the day started in the right manner.
SMITH:
So it's about what you do during the day rather than having complete days off?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I don't really have much opportunity to do that. It just doesn't work out that way because there's always something that comes up and that's understandable.
SMITH:
You've been here to take callers questions, and I'll do that in a second, but how is your party placed, how is the Government placed for next year? Interest rates and workplace reforms are hurting, there is no doubt about that, the polls are indicating that. On those reforms, did you bite off more than you could chew?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't believe so and I don't believe that the evidence is that they're hurting. Now people might be saying they're hurting, and there's a propaganda campaign being waged, but let's look at the facts. These new laws have now been operating for five months, they were brought in on the 27th of March, and in that period of time we've had 159,000 new jobs created. I don't think there's been a quarter in the 10 years that I've been Prime Minister when more jobs have been created. And all of the predictions were, at the time from the unions and the Labor Party, were that there were going to be mass sackings and people would be unfairly dismissed. Well so far from that occurring, we've had a lot of new jobs created, and although there's been a lot of union activity and a lot of allegations, I have to report that we're not seeing any hard evidence of the unfair treatment that was being alleged. We're not seeing the evidence of the wages being slashed.
SMITH:
But there's a clear fear of what employers could do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think whenever something, yes, I think whenever anything new is introduced, it's always open to an Opposition to run a fear campaign. They did that with the GST, remember? The world was going to come to an end and we were going to have Armageddon with the GST. And as the months rolled by and that didn't turn out to be the case, people began to relax. Now I understand that some people have reacted to the fear campaign, I understand that. And I just want to say to them, please look at the facts, please relate it to your own experience and where there is any unfairness then there is an Office of Workplace Services, which is there to help. But the facts as distinct from the rhetoric and the propaganda, the facts indicate that many of those predictions, in fact all of them, have not been realised. And we really do need these reforms to further strengthen our economy because we need greater flexibility in the workplace so that deals can be made to the benefit of both an employer and an employee, and that's why we brought them in.
SMITH:
Okay. On the other point, interest rates. You can't possibly be as reassuring on interest rates? Should interest rates rise later this year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can't speculate and I won't speculate about them rising or....
SMITH:
The indication is that they will?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are, there's commentary on both sides of that and I'm not going to be drawn into it. I will, however, make the obvious point that they're much lower now than they were when we came to power, much lower, they averaged...
SMITH:
They're high enough to hurt you though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well interest rates, well that depends on a lot of things, but in the end I'm worried about their impact on people rather than their impact on me. But they are still historically quite low. They did hit 17 per cent when Mr Keating and Mr Beazley were in charge, and that's for housing. And they averaged a good five per cent higher throughout the whole of their term than they are now. So what I said at the last election was that interest rates would always be lower under a Coalition than under a Labor government and the field evidence is there to support that.
SMITH:
And finally, before we get to callers, a Federal Magistrate has criticised the control order placed on Jack Thomas. He says it's silly, and it is a bit silly saying you can't contact Osama Bin Laden, he's right there isn't he?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not going to comment, this matter is still before the courts. I do not have, as Prime Minister, the luxury of making comments about a matter that is still before the courts. Let me make it clear, separately from this case, that my Government very strongly supports the control order system. That's the system, I'm not relating it to this particular case, I have no view to express publicly about this particular man. That is a matter for the courts and I'm not going to be drawn into the magistrate's comments on this particular issue. But speaking generally, we need control orders in the new threatening environment in which we live. Those control orders were necessary, I'm glad we brought them in and they give us an additional weapon in dealing with a threat we never thought we'd have to deal with.
SMITH:
Okay, that's a good place to start with our callers this afternoon. Craig, the Prime Minister is listening.
CALLER:
Yes, I'd just liked to say to the Prime Minister and all Australians, just to take note of New York law academic and writer Thane Rosenbaum by saying that Australians don't take terrorism seriously. I've got to say, as the Prime Minister said, this is a new age that we live in and the Government has got my full support with the way they've been taking on terrorism and you know I feel safe and secure with this Government and just also the economy, I say Australia has never been as prosperous in the last 10 years and once again it's been because of good economic management.
SMITH:
He's a fan by the sound of it I think PM.
CALLER:
Well to me, the economy, the management of the economy and national security are the two most important things to me.
SMITH:
Alright Craig, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly agree with Craig, he's right and that's what most Australians think. And we are living in a different age. I never dreamt that when I become Prime Minister that I'd be confronting terrorism. When President Bush and I had a meeting, our first ever meeting on the 10th of September 2001 at the White House, we did not discuss terrorism because it wasn't on the radar screen. And the next morning, bang, the world changed forever.
SMITH:
There was a poll recently that said that most Australians actually think this will continue beyond our lifetimes, do you agree?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it will go on for a long time and there are people listening to this who are younger than I am, so perhaps it will be worked out in their lifetime, I hope that it is. But this is not going to be fixed quickly and it's a new threat. When we talk about war, we normally think of army's crossing borders or planes sadly raining bombs on people, this is a different, more elusive menacing threat and therefore we need new contemporary, effective, relevant responses and that's why things like control orders are necessary.
SMITH:
Leslie, good afternoon to you?
CALLER:
Good afternoon Prime Minister, it's wonderful to be able to speak with you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
The one thing that is concerning me greatly is that I think we are little free in who we bring into this country. Not so much for myself but I worry for those that come after me. We see to be getting an overabundance of people that aren't fitting in very well.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well generally speaking, Leslie, I don't agree with that. I mean most people who come to this country try very hard to become Australians. There are some who don't.
CALLER:
They're the ones that worry me.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I understand that. And what I want to do is to reinforce the need for everybody who comes to this country to fully integrate and fully integrating means accepting Australian values, it means learning as rapidly as you can the English language, if you don't already speak it, and it means understanding that in certain areas, such as the equality of men and women, the societies that some people have left were not as contemporary and as progressive as ours is. And I think people who come from societies where women are treated in an inferior fashion have to learn very quickly that that is not the case in Australia. That men and women do have equality and they're each entitled to full respect. I think Australia has benefited enormously from immigration.
CALLER:
I agree.
PRIME MINISTER:
And we can't really....
CALLER:
But Prime Minister, Leslie makes a point here, the wave of immigration we've had since the Second World War, especially immediately after the Second World War, was not as it appears to be currently, and I think that's what Leslie is getting at.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, I understand that and I think there is a section, a small section of the Islamic population, and I say a small section and I've said this before, which is very resistant to integration. And this is a worry of their community as much as it is of the rest of the community.
SMITH:
Is there own community doing enough to tell and weed out these people.
PRIME MINISTER:
Some are, some are, and some aren't. Most of the Islamic people I know are as appalled by the attitude of a small minority as you are and I am. But there are some who see appeals for people to fully integrate into the Australian community, they try and turn that into some kind of act of discrimination against them and I think that's the sort of thing that Leslie is reacting against and she's quite right to do so.
SMITH:
Leslie, thank you for your call. I want to go and grab Ken if I can. Ken, go ahead.
CALLER:
Oh hello. Mr Howard thank you very much for taking the call. I was just trying to ask you a question. For the last three years I have been trying to get through to your office, we sent you a map that Matthew Flinders made in 1804.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, the one about the naming of Australia.
CALLER:
The naming of Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I have got it hanging in my study.
CALLER:
We never ever got a reply to it.
PRIME MINISTER:
What!
CALLER:
We never got a reply to it and we felt that it was a very, very important thing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am staggered at that and let me investigate it. I am looking at one of my staff who is looking at bit incredulous too. So let me, if we have not replied, I apologise. I can assure you we got it, and I can assure you it actually is hanging on the wall of my study in Kirribilli House.
SMITH:
Ken, you've got to be thankful for the small mercies, mate. It's hanging up in the Prime Minister's office.
PRIME MINISTER:
So I can tell you that. Now I apologise, and if that hasn't happened that is a bad slip up, and I will have it investigated.
CALLER:
It's just that one thing I wanted to mention. That is the first time ever that that word Australia was written.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I know yes.
CALLER:
And we just thought that that was an extremely important thing.
PRIME MINISTER:
This is the one that's signed by the Governor General.
CALLER:
And a friend of mine went specially to England to pick that up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ken, look, I just can't believe this. I am embarrassed and I will make sure that it's checked and I will write to you Ken.
SMITH:
You'll get it Ken. Thank you very much for your call mate. Hello Sheena.
CALLER:
Oh hello Prime Minister and Chris.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello.
CALLER:
Prime Minister I just wanted to ask you, it's off what you've been talking about. It's about Medicare.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
CALLER:
We're a couple and with the Safety Net, we've got nine hundred and sixty dollars and ten cents I believe, but my sister, who lives on her own, has to work, can only make around $50,000. She has to reach the same Safety Net and I was just thinking, I hate to use discrimination, but do you think that's a little unfair on a single woman?
SMITH:
You're comparing her Safety Net to a family are you Sheena?
CALLER:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
If it's a family it's $500.
CALLER:
Pardon? $500?
PRIME MINISTER:
A family getting a Family Tax Benefit, it's a lower amount. Well I guess wherever you draw the line with these things there's, you can argue that, but on the other hand...
SMITH:
She's got a very good argument doesn't she Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well except that the Safety Net is a very valuable measure, but bear in mind that these are expenses over and above the normal Medicare rebates. These are out of hospital, out of pocket expenses. And I mean you can always make something more generous, but the more generous you make it, the harder it is to fund.
SMITH:
Okay, we might look at that Sheena another day if we can. Thank you for your call. Gloria from West Ryde, go ahead.
CALLER:
Hello Chris.
SMITH:
Hello.
CALLER:
What a pleasure to have the Prime Minister on there. Mr Howard, I read an article in The Daily Mail this month. The headlines impressed me and made me feel so very proud that this great country has you as our Prime Minister.
SMITH:
Another fan.
CALLER:
The headline said in big block letters, what the Tories can learn from the Wizard of Oz. What a wonderful write up you received there. You seem to get good headlines from the United States and England, which is far more than I can say for the headlines sometimes in the press here.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Gloria, it's nice of you to say that, but you know, we have a free media all around the world including in Australia, and long may it remain so, and people are entitled to say and write what they like about me as long as they accept the obligation to get their facts right and understand that if they get them wrong I will have a go at them. I think that's about all I can say on that subject.
SMITH:
Good on you Gloria, I think you embarrassed the Prime Minister. Just while we're talking about international reflections, the East Timor rebels who walked out of jail.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
SMITH:
We spent a great deal of effort trying to clean the place up and then the system lets us down.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it's quite a worry and my office has had some contact with the defence forces today and obviously they're hunting furiously for this man, and because it was largely through the terrific work of the ADF that he went into captivity, along with his accomplices in the first place. It's...
SMITH:
Disappointing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well its more than disappointing. It's a matter of concern and it's a bit too early for me to make any judgements as to how this happened, but it is being very carefully investigated and I am concerned that it has happened. Whether it happened as easily as has been reported in the media today I don't know at the moment. But we do want to get to the bottom of the circumstances which led to this break out.
SMITH:
Okay, just a couple more minutes. Maybe two more calls. I have got Nadia on line on a current issue worth taking. Nadia go ahead.
CALLER:
Oh hello Prime Minister, nice talking to you. I would like to talk about an important matter regarding whatever is news, like stem cells in this case, that we have referendum, instead of Mr Abbott or whoever comes with conscience vote to decide what we are going to have or not. Also, I would like to see all the politicians who tell lies before the election and they don't come up with goods after it to be punished in the way that we should withdraw all the benefits that they get.
SMITH:
Nadia, let the Prime Minister answer the first question. I think the other one is a truism.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the first question is what you're saying is having a referendum rather than a conscience vote. Is that what you're arguing for?
SMITH:
That's what she's saying yep.
PRIME MINISTER:
Nadia, the only problem with that is that it costs about 30 to 40 million dollars to run a referendum in Australia and I don't think it's a good idea to have a referendum on every issue. We must have referenda to change the Constitution because that's what the Constitution says and it's the law. But the idea of Parliament is that every three years we elect people to make decisions and I don't think I agree with you that we have a referendum. And you mentioned Mr Abbott. Well Mr Abbott's entitled to his view on things like everybody else, and you can't really blame Mr Abbott for some of these things like stem cell research coming up. I mean its come up, it's a matter people are interested in. I've said...
SMITH:
You've softened your position right?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I have said is this. That if people want to debate a bill, it can be voted on in a free or open fashion. How I vote myself, I am still thinking about it. I am a conservative on most of these social issues, but I'll think everything through and I will talk to a few people who are experts in this field. But originally a lot of people said no, we don't want a conscience vote and I was reflecting that attitude. And then when there was more reflection on it, people said look things may have changed a bit from when it was debated three or four years ago, let's look at it again. So I, sensing the change in mood, I said right let's look at it again and if there is a vote, there is a bill put forward, and I think there will be, possibly by Senator Kay Patterson who is a former Health Minister and a wonderful parliamentarian, let's debate that and vote on it as free individuals and not as members of any particular party.
SMITH:
Okay, Nadia thank you for your call. Finally Prime Minister, our 80th Birthday celebrations last week here at 2GB. And as part of that we were playing some history, which had been aired on this radio station many, many decades ago. And part of that history, part of the audio was this.
[plays excerpt]
Prime Minister, did you enjoy that occasion when you were grilled?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I remember it very well. Yes, it's a long time ago. That was in 1955. That's a fair while ago.
SMITH:
Thank you very much for your time this afternoon. Happy Father's Day for Sunday and thank you for remembering this programme.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks Chris. Good luck.
SMITH:
Okay, the Prime Minister John Howard.
[ends]